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The Phantom Mafia - So This Is How Liberty Dies

Z25

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I was trying to be as non-specific as possible in case it provoked a slip from someone. :p

But yeah, it was force points. It said "the Force calls out", and I got force points from it. There was no mention of white lightsabers, so I figure it wasn't Shish.
Actually let me ask this.


Was it points or a point?
 

Moydow

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AlphaSSB AlphaSSB Anything you might want to share about this? At this stage in the game you ought to be speaking up more about your role and abilities, everyone else has made some sort of claim by now.
 

Fire Emblemier

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I can confirm I received Force Points with the saying "The Force Calls Out, the night before ThirdKoopas lynch,
 

Z25

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Points, as in more than one. I won't say the exact number, in case we need another night and it affects who the Sith decides to target.
Ok that’s interesting. Day two I received a point. I just assumed it was shishoe once we learned he could do that later. As tbh I thought we all got a point every few days randomly. Stupid thought but now that you’ve mentioned it I think the difference is significant.

So someone hands out a Point while someone else hands out points from the looks on it.
 

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Ok that’s interesting. Day two I received a point. I just assumed it was shishoe once we learned he could do that later. As tbh I thought we all got a point every few days randomly. Stupid thought but now that you’ve mentioned it I think the difference is significant.

So someone hands out a Point while someone else hands out points from the looks on it.
On night 1/day 2, Jojalole's death resulted in his force points being given out at random (I got some from that as well). So the single point you got could have been from that.
 

Z25

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I can confirm I received Force Points with the saying "The Force Calls Out, the night before ThirdKoopas lynch,
When I received one point I got no message just that I received it. So we have someone that conflicts with shishoes role.

That leaves nabe( again) and alpha.

But remind me nabe said something about being able to meditate points right? That sounds shady now
 

Z25

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On night 1/day 2, Jojalole's death resulted in his force points being given out at random (I got some from that as well). So the single point you got could have been from that.
Oh ok I didn’t recall that. That may be it then
 

Moydow

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Oh ok I didn’t recall that. That may be it then
"Noble Sacrifice."
NIGHT ACTION - LIGHT
Your devotion to the Jedi Order allows you to protect them all from harm, at a cost. If you use this
ability, ALL nightkills of any kind will be prevented, but you will die in their stead. Your remaining
Force Points will be diviied up randomly among the remaining players.
If it had no explanation and you just got the point/s, then it was due to this.
 

Fire Emblemier

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Yes, the lightsabers give extra force points
you weren't supposed to say that, it was a secret >:^(
This was from yesterday
Moydow did you receive a lightsaber as well, or just force points? I'm not sure it shish meant the lightsaber's ability as acting like a force point for duel wagers, or if he sent out points through the force.
 

Fire Emblemier

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Either Shish was confused when I mentioned the extra force points, or he could use both seperately, guess we will have to wait for everyone to get here.
 

Z25

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The person giving out points isn't me, but I don't know how you get from "people are getting points randomly" to "Nabe meditating for points is shady because people are getting points randomly".
That wasn’t my reasoning.

Plus we already cleared up the issue.

And even if we didn’t, you would have a similar ability which at this point wouldn’t be likely.

Regardless like I said we already resolved this issue to a degree
 

#HBC | Nabe

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Alright well looks that was easy.

Vote: Nabe

Hope you liked the disarm.
I don't believe that you have a lightsaber disarm.

Alpha has a clear from Maven's death, Fire is a redirector (scum aren't going to have been given two), Shish hands out good-guy lightsabers. It's you or Moydow, and I don't see a scum!Moydow going out of her way to clear possible lynch targets and paint herself into a corner.

You have not stopped harping on the potential existence of a godfather since Moydow claimed clears on you and I, which I think points to a guilty paradigm. To say things like "the existence of a godfather is a given", you have to feel pretty confident about it.

Vote: Z25
 

Z25

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I don't believe that you have a lightsaber disarm.

Alpha has a clear from Maven's death, Fire is a redirector (scum aren't going to have been given two), Shish hands out good-guy lightsabers. It's you or Moydow, and I don't see a scum!Moydow going out of her way to clear possible lynch targets and paint herself into a corner.

You have not stopped harping on the potential existence of a godfather since Moydow claimed clears on you and I, which I think points to a guilty paradigm. To say things like "the existence of a godfather is a given", you have to feel pretty confident about it.

Vote: Z25
Your points literally can be used for you.

Also if I didn’t disarm anyone? Why was there no kill? No way is a mafia member going for a no kill this late game when the risk of no pay off is too high.

Fire already backed up my claim and moys claim has been proven. As has shishoe’s.

Only you and alpha have no significant proof of your alignments.

Kon even had you pegged as mafia as was pokechu. And we know how that went down. He clearly was right.

Your silencer act was bull, and you keep trying to stay town without any concrete proof for us to your but your claim as town.

And I know for a fact that no kill was carried out.

My bulletproof that I told moydow about is in tact still. Which means the mafia more then likely didn’t act because of my disarm.

I was hoping my claim of a disarm would get to you. But you never took the bait sadly.
 

Fire Emblemier

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Keep in mind that when we claimed Moydow was town yesterday we believed there was only one mafia member left. Instead there were two. Thirdkoopa could have easily been the one to submit the kill on golden. Moydow was informed of the plan to disable Nabe as well as the plan for me to redirect shish to nabe. It might be paranoia, but Moydow is definitely still a suspect despite the parity cop checks.
I honestly doubt this is the case due to informing us of the force calls out message like I received and also how parity copping just would limit her pool of possible lynches even if there is a Godfather. Just a thought to put on the table. Feel free to refute it
 

Z25

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Keep in mind that when we claimed Moydow was town yesterday we believed there was only one mafia member left. Instead there were two. Thirdkoopa could have easily been the one to submit the kill on golden. Moydow was informed of the plan to disable Nabe as well as the plan for me to redirect shish to nabe. It might be paranoia, but Moydow is definitely still a suspect despite the parity cop checks.
I honestly doubt this is the case due to informing us of the force calls out message like I received and also how parity copping just would limit her pool of possible lynches even if there is a Godfather. Just a thought to put on the table. Feel free to refute it
This is fair but remember I disabled moydow and no one knew that I was going to do that.

And third killed shiny and bar the day before. So unless I missed something, third had no way to do the kill that night
 

Z25

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For reference we know bar and shiny were killed by third because janga the one time bounty hunter third could call did the killing.
 

#HBC | Nabe

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Your points literally can be used for you.
Obviously when I'm talking about process of elimination, I'm referring to my own point of view. And as far as I can tell, that's the only point of mine that could "literally" be used for me. You are the one who, as soon as a clear on me was announced, decided in-thread that I had to be a godfather. And since then, you haven't stopped talking about it, even though back then, you thought that there were only three mafia members, and used that in part to justify the existence of said godfather when questioned on your bizarre initial statement about it.

Also if I didn’t disarm anyone? Why was there no kill? No way is a mafia member going for a no kill this late game when the risk of no pay off is too high.
I'm not going to suggest that another mafia member couldn't have no-killed, but FMPOV if there is mafia remaining, it's you or it's Moydow, and I've explained why I don't think that it's Moydow. Now, you're claiming an ability whose existence can be "proven" by you being mafia and not making a kill target. After my free lynch, you can say, "Well, I guess mafia did no-kill, huh?" and move on, because that fact will be as clear as day.

Only you and alpha have no significant proof of your alignments.
While I acknowledge the truth of this for me FYPOV, Alpha was seemingly saved by Maven, whose powered-up protection ability only worked on Jedi.

Kon even had you pegged as mafia as was pokechu. And we know how that went down. He clearly was right.
Kon's correctness in judgment with Pokechu means that I'm scum? How so? If Kon was actually 100% confident in me being scum, which he claimed to be repeatedly during Day 2, then why did he contact Pokechu that Night, and not me?

And I know for a fact that no kill was carried out.

My bulletproof that I told moydow about is in tact still. Which means the mafia more then likely didn’t act because of my disarm.
You know for a fact that a kill wasn't carried out, because your bulletproof wasn't poked? Why are you the default Nightkill target?

I was hoping my claim of a disarm would get to you. But you never took the bait sadly.
I heard it from Fire and then confirmed by Moydow, actually. I don't know what you mean by "bait" here, since the argument that you've been making since your first post of the Day is that I did take the bait, and thus there was no Night kill.
 

Fire Emblemier

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For reference we know bar and shiny were killed by third because janga the one time bounty hunter third could call did the killing.
The hit was in the middle of the day on the day before. There was also nothing in his role stating that he can not night kill after doing so. It was additional kill that was a one time use, meant to cause confusion.

We do not have definitive proof you disabled Moydow though, you could've just set up a way to frame Nabe
 

#HBC | Nabe

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For completeness, it's important to point out that there's another possibility that explains a lack of Night death. If the 3 mafia and 1 traitor were all that the mafia had, there could be an indy remaining who doesn't have a Nightkill, but is nonetheless still a threat to the Jedi.

I don't know if I believe that to truly be a possibility, but bear in mind, the traitor and the main mafia both had Duels available to them, which makes for a massively powerful mafia if it also has 5 members out of 16 in the setup.
 

Fire Emblemier

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For completeness, it's important to point out that there's another possibility that explains a lack of Night death. If the 3 mafia and 1 traitor were all that the mafia had, there could be an indy remaining who doesn't have a Nightkill, but is nonetheless still a threat to the Jedi.

I don't know if I believe that to truly be a possibility, but bear in mind, the traitor and the main mafia both had Duels available to them, which makes for a massively powerful mafia if it also has 5 members out of 16 in the setup.
I do wonder how that would work if that's the case, as that would mean they have some of sort of win condition that overides town victory despite not killing.
 

Fire Emblemier

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Not to mention there is a obvious candidate flavorwise for a 4th member of the main scum team. Darth Sideous
 

#HBC | Nabe

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I do wonder how that would work if that's the case, as that would mean they have some of sort of win condition that overides town victory despite not killing.
Sole survivor. It's rough at this point for that role if it exists, since it can't kill, but from the start of the setup there's so much death going around the game that it's not hard to imagine reaching that win condition.
 

#HBC | Nabe

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Not to mention there is a obvious candidate flavorwise for a 4th member of the main scum team. Darth Sideous
Is it obvious? I would have suspected Anakin to be a member of the mafia, Koops flipped Countess Dooku, and I have no idea who praline's flip was, so I don't know why four members would tie up neatly with the inclusion of Old Man.
 

Z25

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Obviously when I'm talking about process of elimination, I'm referring to my own point of view. And as far as I can tell, that's the only point of mine that could "literally" be used for me. You are the one who, as soon as a clear on me was announced, decided in-thread that I had to be a godfather. And since then, you haven't stopped talking about it, even though back then, you thought that there were only three mafia members, and used that in part to justify the existence of said godfather when questioned on your bizarre initial statement about it.


I'm not going to suggest that another mafia member couldn't have no-killed, but FMPOV if there is mafia remaining, it's you or it's Moydow, and I've explained why I don't think that it's Moydow. Now, you're claiming an ability whose existence can be "proven" by you being mafia and not making a kill target. After my free lynch, you can say, "Well, I guess mafia did no-kill, huh?" and move on, because that fact will be as clear as day.


While I acknowledge the truth of this for me FYPOV, Alpha was seemingly saved by Maven, whose powered-up protection ability only worked on Jedi.


Kon's correctness in judgment with Pokechu means that I'm scum? How so? If Kon was actually 100% confident in me being scum, which he claimed to be repeatedly during Day 2, then why did he contact Pokechu that Night, and not me?


You know for a fact that a kill wasn't carried out, because your bulletproof wasn't poked? Why are you the default Nightkill target?


I heard it from Fire and then confirmed by Moydow, actually. I don't know what you mean by "bait" here, since the argument that you've been making since your first post of the Day is that I did take the bait, and thus there was no Night kill.
My bulletproof isn’t the full proof of said no kill. But my disarm as well. I disarmed you and my bullet proof was never touched and no one died. If someone died and my bulletproof wasn’t triggered then I would know it wasn’t you due to the disarm and that it had to be someone else.

However my disarm stopped you and no one else died and my bulletproof stayed in tact. That makes you the most likely killer.

And your saying that you heard of my bulletproof from fire? Now unless moydow told him, there is no way you should know of it as I didn’t inform fire. I meant too but never got around to making a follow up pm to him.

And my argument isn’t that you took the bait. I said no one did, and with no other kill happening then the only explanation for it is that my disarm stopped you as the mafia. Unless by the slimmest chance they went for no kill which as I said is a very bold and unlikely move, but I’ll entertain it’s possible.

For completeness, it's important to point out that there's another possibility that explains a lack of Night death. If the 3 mafia and 1 traitor were all that the mafia had, there could be an indy remaining who doesn't have a Nightkill, but is nonetheless still a threat to the Jedi.

I don't know if I believe that to truly be a possibility, but bear in mind, the traitor and the main mafia both had Duels available to them, which makes for a massively powerful mafia if it also has 5 members out of 16 in the setup.
I’ll concede that this is a fair statement but again it’s an unlikely scenario. Why would there be a traitor and third party? That’s five or six people against the town with which would leave 8 town against six scum. And that’s a really high number that I can’t see happening.
 

Z25

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Did Shish ever claim his entire role?
Off the top of my head I’m not too sure. I know for a fact he’s doubled down and giving out light sabers.

And on top of that alpha and nabe still don’t have full claims.
 

Fire Emblemier

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Is it obvious? I would have suspected Anakin to be a member of the mafia, Koops flipped Countess Dooku, and I have no idea who praline's flip was, so I don't know why four members would tie up neatly with the inclusion of Old Man.
I mostly meant if we do have another mafia member it is obvious who that character is.
I guess Vaan wanted to subvert the expectation of Anakin being a turn coat. I don't mind though I like Anakin at his prime as a Jedi Knight.
Ventress was a sith assassin from the Clone Wars show. She's a popular character like Ahsoka.
 

Z25

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The hit was in the middle of the day on the day before. There was also nothing in his role stating that he can not night kill after doing so. It was additional kill that was a one time use, meant to cause confusion.

We do not have definitive proof you disabled Moydow though, you could've just set up a way to frame Nabe
Well I’d imagine only the leader of the mafia would have the main kill unless they died early then whoever’s left would get that ability based on mafia rules.

On top of this, why would I claim to disarm moy to frame nabe?

I knew nothing of your beforehand so I couldn’t even predict you’d target moy and have a potential kill redirected. There would be no reason for me or any mafia to not have killed that day, which as we saw happened.
For this idea to work i would need to know your ability and who you were targeting. Which I absolutely couldn’t have.
 

Fire Emblemier

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Off the top of my head I’m not too sure. I know for a fact he’s doubled down and giving out light sabers.

And on top of that alpha and nabe still don’t have full claims.
Cause right now if the 3rd party thing is true he or alpha might fit the bill. An item giver seems like something neutral way of trying to benefit both sides of a conflict. Alpha hasn't claimed yet so he's suspicious in that regard as a possible sole survivor jedi?
 

Z25

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I have to nip this in the bud quickly before Fire Emblemier Fire Emblemier posts, because he and Moydow both know my full claim, and I don't want it out.
If you have true town intent you’ll fill claim in the thread. This is the final stretch we can’t hold back our roles. That’s against the towns intent and both fire and moy shouldn’t buy into that.

Hell even koops last message was to that for town to win full claims publicly were needed.
 

Z25

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Cause right now if the 3rd party thing is true he or alpha might fit the bill. An item giver seems like something neutral way of trying to benefit both sides of a conflict. Alpha hasn't claimed yet so he's suspicious in that regard as a possible sole survivor jedi?
I would be funny and tragic if shishoe was the third party again lol.

And I do agree that if the third party is real which seems unlikely, then the goal would be sole survivor. An item giver makes a good amount of sense for that actually
 

#HBC | Nabe

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And your saying that you heard of my bulletproof from fire? Now unless moydow told him, there is no way you should know of it as I didn’t inform fire. I meant too but never got around to making a follow up pm to him.
No, I heard about the disarm. What shape does a bulletproof even take in this game?

I’ll concede that this is a fair statement but again it’s an unlikely scenario. Why would there be a traitor and third party? That’s five or six people against the town with which would leave 8 town against six scum. And that’s a really high number that I can’t see happening.
We have four flipped scum. We know that there's one more, because the game isn't over. I'm positing that there is exactly one more remaining, not two. The existence of a traitor with a second kill makes a 3P with no kill more likely, not less.
 

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No, I heard about the disarm. What shape does a bulletproof even take in this game?


We have four flipped scum. We know that there's one more, because the game isn't over. I'm positing that there is exactly one more remaining, not two. The existence of a traitor with a second kill makes a 3P with no kill more likely, not less.
Moydow Moydow did you actually mention my disarm claim to people?

And what do you mean by what shape does it hold?
 
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