The Phantom Mafia - So This Is How Liberty Dies

[Opossum]

-Answered my question, and it's reasonable enough.
-Posting more; I'm cool w/ them.
-Lurker' not enough to read
-Lurker; not enough to read. also claimed too early but I guess we'll get the second roleblocker/redirector business sorted out eventually. Frankly, I don't care for Wine and I'm just playing this to hunt scum.

If you want my full reads (honestly, not solidified enough for me to color them)
-Pokechu: I get scummy vibes but nothing concrete; I'm trying to get more town vibes
-Nabe: I have no reason to believe he's scum at this moment in time
-LoneKonWolf: Reads Town to me
-Maven: No hard reads either way
-ShinyLegendary: Probs my biggest town read
-FireEmbleNier: Town.
-Praline: Scummy vibes
-Opossum: Opossum I'm curious if you asked Vaan how it would work in the case of a redirect, but, do be warned that he may not tell you.
-Golden: I'm suspect with the RBer shenanigans but I'm not paying enough attention to roles and that's on me
-Z25: Clarified themselves about the result and... I'll take it for now unless Opossum says something.
-Moydow: No hard reads either way.
-Alpha: No hard reason to believe they're town
-Shishoe: No hard reason to believe they're town


I agree, but more based on their activity than anything else.


Yeah, my curiousty has piqued.

You're not completely hopeless just yet, but, I will say I'm highly against a last minute switch if we can avoid it.

I'm kinda talking around it because I don't want to quote my role directly, but if a redirect were to happen, my role straight up wouldn't work. I have to send in the exact message I'm checking, and a redirect would interrupt that.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm kinda talking around it because I don't want to quote my role directly, but if a redirect were to happen, my role straight up wouldn't work. I have to send in the exact message I'm checking, and a redirect would interrupt that.

So why is this even a mystery if you did get a "No Result"?

 

[Opossum]

So why is this even a mystery if you did get a "No Result"?

It was a mystery before I knew I was redirected.

 

[Deleted member]

It was a mystery before I knew I was redirected.

I'm just seeing a lot of people still act confused about it, that's all.

 

[Opossum]

I'm just seeing a lot of people still act confused about it, that's all.

Yeah, to sum it up for those still confused:

- praline acted suspicious, so I lie detected them saying they were town. Got no result as my result.
- I assumed this was godfather shenanigans.
- praline claims Redirector, says she didn't redirect me.
- FE also claims Redirector and that he redirected me.
- This explains my result, but not praline's behavior or there being a second Redirector.
- praline is likely scum.

 

[Maven89]

LoneKonWolf still on for Praline

 

[LoneKonWolf]

I just got 6 mentions here when i was gone.

This should be an interesting read.

LoneKonWolf You have praline, Nabe, and you had Opo pegged as the third, but you seem to have changed your mind. Who are the last two scum?

#HBC | Nabe If you think Kon is scum, who's one of his mates?

My opinino of opossum turned from near certainty of scum by the start of the day phase, to rather confident in the other direction. The defense and opossums genuine reactions make me completely question his alignment. In short he gave me a satisfactory defense against being scum, unlike the other two who i am fully certain are scum.

. . . And pokechu, i only gave 3 scum. As in a 16 man mafia game there should only be 3 mafia. . . Pray tell why do you ask me the last two scum when i only gave two options. Why are you certain there are 4 mafia?

Fair enough. I don't think we need a claim fish then, but we should have a definite lynch so we don't run into anymore shenanigans.

LoneKonWolf is it safe to move my vote now?

I'm not the one to ask at the time rather bardul and shiny.

#HBC | Nabe is a Jedi!!!
Unvote: Nabe
Vote: praline

WHAT?

. . . What?

. . . I. . . I am. . . What?

The claim for which he refuted to no degree, no explaination for why he was targeted and why vaan would put it in the game, no explaination for his choice of words and his taunt at me to vote him, and no explanation about why mafia would do something so beneficial to a town. . . And its all True? This horrible defense is actually confirmed Not scum?

. . . I . . . This. . . I can't argue against. Its proof. I actually need a moment to readjust myself.

If that is the case. . . Then the paranoia nabe gave me of my vote being worthless. . . Is just paranoia. . . This is insane. . . But they do say truth is stranger than fiction. . . All the paths and pattern lead to him. . . Ugh.

Well. . . I do plan to finally concede, for this is unconceivable proof that nabe is now town. . . I will finally shut up and sit down.

Unvote: Nabe.

I'm actually gotten somewhat dizzy at this. . . Well unlike for praline we have confirmination they are scum dued to fire claim. So the next logical step is to lynch the confirmed scum.

Vote: Praline.

LoneKonWolf
Kon, get over here. You have to see this.

I have, I don't believe it but I have to. It makes no sense. . .

Inb4 Kon thinks Nabe is godfather.

Vaan hates cops and hates even more counters to such. I would rather believe the horrible defense nabe has given to be confirmed before i believe dued to vaans actions that he'll allow a godfather in.

no

LoneKonWolf we need your thoughts so we can read you

I've been listing them as i go. Sorry i have a busy life and am just now catching up. If you have any questions ask them.

I’d like Golden to explain his RB more

I can share that if he decides not to. Though i prefer if he gives it from the horses mouth as i did swear to him at night not to tell a soul myself personally other than shiny.

LoneKonWolf still on for Praline

Indeed. They gave red flags during the day and jumped Katherine lynch. Fire claim and their behavior here only cements it further.

 

[Fire Emblemier]

Takes 7 force points to use it a second time

If it means anything, my redirect doesn't cost any force points.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

The claim for which he refuted to no degree, no explaination for why he was targeted and why vaan would put it in the game, no explaination for his choice of words and his taunt at me to vote him, and no explanation about why mafia would do something so beneficial to a town.

All of the things you've mentioned here have been explained at length. Go back and look again with fresh eyes.

 

[LoneKonWolf]

All of the things you've mentioned here have been explained at length. Go back and look again with fresh eyes.

I have.

And you have not refuted anything besides the host kill explanation. Everything else has been ignored, diverted to opposite conversation, or you simply metaphorically shrugged at to have no explanation.

The only other possibility i can come up with to explain the factor is that shiny lied about the result, which is insane conclusion to even come up with. As shiny proved to have full town intent trying to defend Katt so late in her lynch and has only showed to be helpful. He can't be a scum lying meaning he has to be telling the truth as there is no reason for a town member to lie over this.

I do not know why you brought this back up, when i have fully admitted to backing down in that same post. Just because i now have proof you are town does not mean i relinquish my thought process.

 

[Deleted member]

"why would host put X role in the game?" is a terrible thought process to have and shouldn't be used as evidence to believe or disbelieve a claim. I, for example, almost considered using a Fool in Fate 2 despite my own disdain for the role

 

[LoneKonWolf]

Even hosts can be judged. Everyone can be judged.

Everything must be looked at with possibility and with suspicion until given an example other wise.

If you refuse to use every thought because of "x and so" then you are only limiting yourself.

 

[Deleted member]

Even hosts can be judged. Everyone can be judged.

Everything must be looked at with possibility and with suspicion until given an example other wise.

If you refuse to use every thought because of "x and so" then you are only limiting yourself.

You're the only one here limiting yourself. Your point is that "vaan wouldn't include such a role" which is a terrible fallacy because a host should design their setup to not be predicatble.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Let's just get started here

Unless the host has explicitly stated that "they're not doing ___", "Vaan wouldn't include such a role" is not a good argument. It's complete Host WIFOM and I'm not wasting time on that when we can actually Scumhunt*

* = Plus, I have no prior history of Vaan's setups, but I could show you five of my setups at random and the only thing you'll get in common from them is a lack of killing roles

 

[LoneKonWolf]

You're the only one here limiting yourself. Your point is that "vaan wouldn't include such a role" which is a terrible fallacy because a host should design their setup to not be predicatble.

Predictability =/= personal see of balance.

The reason for such sight is because of their views of balance. For their rule of their personal code. And that can be guessed and opinionated. Failing to consider at all leaves to counter expecting the obvious.

You don't need to add things you dislike and believe will break your game just to surprise and keep people guessing, these are home made after all and simply require work to make due process.

 

[Deleted member]

Why do I have a feeling Kon is going to see Nabe as the Godfather?

 

[LoneKonWolf]

Why do I have a feeling Kon is going to see Nabe as the Godfather?

. . . You did not read my post at all did you?

 

[Deleted member]

. . . You did not read my post at all did you?

I did. It was just a joke.

 

[Deleted member]

. . . You did not read my post at all did you?

I am not offending your posts, I am just saying the post that I said about "You are going to think Nabe is a godfather" is a joke.

 

[LoneKonWolf]

I did. It was just a joke.

I am not offending your posts, I am just saying the post that I said about "You are going to think Nabe is a godfather" is a joke.

Let uni confirm i don't tolerate jokes.

Especially one that doesn't even qualify dued to what i've said.

 

[Deleted member]

Let uni confirm i don't tolerate jokes.

Especially one that doesn't even qualify dued to what i've said.

Oh, my bad Kon.

 

[LoneKonWolf]

Oh, my bad Kon.

Don't feel bad at all.

Looking over it sounded to harsh, though i do want to confirm how tasteless it was.

Don't let me dictate your behavior.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Everything else has been ignored, diverted to opposite conversation, or you simply metaphorically shrugged at to have no explanation.

That's not a valid interpretation of my responses to you, which have been complete, correctness aside.

 

[Moydow]

Vaan hates cops and hates even more counters to such. I would rather believe the horrible defense nabe has given to be confirmed before i believe dued to vaans actions that he'll allow a godfather in.

So why is Shiny's claim of day cop getting a pass? Day cop is arguably worse than a regular one.

 

[LoneKonWolf]

That's not a valid interpretation of my responses to you, which have been complete, correctness aside.

In your opinion. In my opinion you have done no such thing.

And again i ask. I have backed down, I have admitted at proof for you being town. Why do you continue this?

 

[Moydow]

Also guess I can remove my vote for the time being

Unvote

 

[LoneKonWolf]

So why is Shiny's claim of day cop getting a pass? Day cop is arguably worse than a regular one.

Limitation i presume.

Like i said, with balance things are workable and goes back to the predictability =/= personal see of balance.

As shiny can only do it in very specific situations and only said situations. It is not standard day alignment checker.

And even then, unlike the silencer which is still up for question, shiny intent actually has an answer to help prove his claim with his intent to save katherine and using it on this attempt, which did confirm nabe. Proof is what matters.

 

[Maven89]

@GoldenYuiitusin talk about your role now

 

[Maven89]

Moydow can you confirm my RB?

 

[Moydow]

Limitation i presume.

Like i said, with balance things are workable and goes back to the predictability =/= personal see of balance.

As shiny can only do it in very specific situations and only said situations. It is not standard day alignment checker.

And even then, unlike the silencer which is still up for question, shiny intent actually has an answer to help prove his claim with his intent to save katherine and using it on this attempt, which did confirm nabe. Proof is what matters.

The same limitations could be applied to a godfather, though. Maybe they have to spend force points in order to appear as innocent, or something.

My point wasn't about the believability of Shiny's claim, and more that "the host doesn't like it" isn't really a valid reason to dismiss the possibility that something might not exist in the game. Like we're seeing with Shiny, they could have just modified it into a form they find more acceptable.

 

[Moydow]

Moydow can you confirm my RB?

I got a result of "you were unable to <what my role does>", which I'm guessing means a roleblock?

Don't want to go into detail about my role just yet, it's not the right time.

 

[Opossum]

Let's just get started here

Unless the host has explicitly stated that "they're not doing ___", "Vaan wouldn't include such a role" is not a good argument. It's complete Host WIFOM and I'm not wasting time on that when we can actually Scumhunt*

* = Plus, I have no prior history of Vaan's setups, but I could show you five of my setups at random and the only thing you'll get in common from them is a lack of killing roles

But you don't understand. Sakurai explicitly said he thinks Ridley is too big. He's never getting in.

 

[Deleted member]

But you don't understand. Sakurai explicitly said he thinks Ridley is too big. He's never getting in.

He changed his mind.

Yes I know this is a joke.

 

[LoneKonWolf]

The same limitations could be applied to a godfather, though. Maybe they have to spend force points in order to appear as innocent, or something.

My point wasn't about the believability of Shiny's claim, and more that "the host doesn't like it" isn't really a valid reason to dismiss the possibility that something might not exist in the game. Like we're seeing with Shiny, they could have just modified it into a form they find more acceptable.

It is a valid reason intill proven other wise.

One must be flexible with thoughts, and uses judgements of anyone who can affect to come up with ideas. And the idea of vaans opinion is a clear one that if ignored will only harm those if it is a falsify.

And no that is unlikely. Because if shiny is telling the truth about their own limitations, they can only check twice, with extremely specific conditions that the second one would never happened if everyone did not cooperate. Having a godfather will make shinys whole role possibly useless. No game would be fair if the chance for that to even be encountered. And we can easily assume vaan who a valid proponent against such would not make a role broke dued to another. He has to have that foresight. And it is why even now i have an extremely hard time swallowing the silencer, as it doesn't make any sense.

You can quote this after the game when we have the full role list, to see exactly if means and lines up.

 

[Maven89]

We can continue this conversation in post game, right now I feel it’s distracting from the game

Nabe, Golden said he RBd you. Can you confirm that?

 

[LoneKonWolf]

Fair. Apologies.

And i can confirm that as well. As that was my own suggestion to him.

 

[Deleted member]

@GoldenYuiitusin talk about your role now

I have a blaster with three shots.

These shots prevent the target from performing a night action, but leaves them vulnerable to any duel attempt for that night.

 

[Deleted member]

LoneKonWolf
Why do you think we are lying? We literally checked him and he came up town.

 

[BarDulL]

I’m on mobile and I can’t expect Shiny to deal with the situation the way I want him to. Hopefully you guys forgive me for forgoing my self-imposed restriction.

#HBC | Nabe , what do you think of Kon’s behavior? Let’s say hypothetically that myself and Shiny did in fact lie; what do you think it means?

 

[LoneKonWolf]

LoneKonWolf
Why do you think we are lying? We literally checked him and he came up town.

Shiny read what i'm saying.

I labeled it out for completing sakes of opposition but completely dismissed and destroyed the idea with refuting in the same post.