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The OMG FiZZ is back Stupendous "Critique my Lucario" Thread

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Camalange

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Holding up 90% of the time is a good way to avoid his dsmash if you aren't used to SDI'ing it on reaction. I think it was either Espy or Camalange who taught me that.
naaaameee seaarrcch

That's really all I came here to say, as well as, "Hi, Zucco!"

:093:
 

Zucco

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HI CAMMALANGE!

Havent seen you in soooooooooo long. BR2 was like 100000000 months ago. we need to play again, our friendlies are way too fun.
 

Camalange

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I miss you Zucco >_> Actually, I miss errbody. BR2 was my most recent tournament dude...I'm so out of it. The real world is time consuming.

:093:
 

iDeo

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Hooray, I got my first matches on YouTube at last.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qy4mEIG6JZw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kktuf-vodV8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwH1GOs2_Tg

Honestly I don't know how to fight Falco at all x_x It's not that difficult but the chicken just makes me rage.

EDIT: Also that DT in the vs. Snake -match was an accident.

EDIT2: Any thoughts?

EDIT3: ...anyone? ;-;
Alrite....well played matches. Let's see here, in the Snake match I liked how you didn't spam f-smash but waited patiently to use it. Good feat. to have in that match-up because you don't wanna get punished for an empty f-smash. You kept juggling Snake which was good cause you don't want him on the ground. So major kudos in this video. I know i still have trouble with the Snake match-up so i'm kinda envious at you, lol.

As for the Falco match, a few errors were made. You shot ur AS rite in front of Falco which is a big no no, and of course it cost you a stock and almost 2. Another thing saw in this match that you didn't do was punish properly. In this case, where Falco phantasm canceled in front of you he could get to the ledge to recover you didn't f-smash but instead hesitated 2x and went for grabs that missed. Try to be more attentive when situations like that rise. Overall you did good with powershielding the lasers and juggling Falco for damage.

So far ur Lucario is solid. Keep it up. :)
 

MythTrainerInfinity

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Zucco

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not a bad lucario, actually. It was kinda clear that you didnt know the MU though. keep it up. I DONT KNOW THE MU AND IM NO GOOD AT ADVICE LIKE THIS, SO IM JUST PUTTING IN MY 2 CENTS!


Also, not to be a ****, but Rob had a sexy *** kill in game 2 stock 1.
 

iDeo

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this was before i learned the ROB MU but here is 2 friendlies...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqjQOatIvaA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5jTRpVnCXU
Well played matches Steam.

In match 1 you did good in keeping space when attacking. I liked the combo you put together on the last stock to. 0 to like 80% i think it was. Good execution skills indeed. You kept falling into his aerials pretty easy so be careful which i'm sure u are now, seeing as the match was before u knew the MU.

In match 2 i felt you got too confident and went head on attacking on his 1st stock. One thing i can say though is if the fair doesn't connect then don't proceed to fair or dair afterwards. 1 stock was sexy kill on ya, XD. Sorry it was too hard not to be said. Among other things i like use of the double team counter. Try to use that when u since they're going for the kill in the future.

In summary:

1: don't rush hard
2: good executions/combo strings
3: may the force be with u
 

iDeo

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z73leNV6KBs

Yeah i have a bunch of other vids.
This vid is the best one because this player is far better than i am and im playing at max to the max.
Okey dokey. One of the things i realized you weren't doing was overall adapting to the situations but rather you just kept attacking senselessly. Sure it connected sometimes but your opponent took advantage of that weakness. Another thing was you kept using the moves you had the most lag on up close like f-tilts and a couple of f-smashes. You wanna space those so you don't get punished. Wake up attacking off the ledge to frequently led to a losing a stock. You wanna just chill on the ledge for a minute so you can recover safely when the time comes.

2nd stock kill on Pit was good though. Kudos!!

Improvements:

1: Be mindful of the MU

You didn't think your movements through in this match, so be more careful. When you take on Pit you wanna take your time and stay close enough so he doesn't spam you to death with arrows. Your tried the f-tilt and f-smash which was a good choice but you didn't space it. Make sure you space these moves to negate punishment from the opponent.

2: Approach

I noticed you didn't approach much but rather tried to roll behind him. Big no no! Try to break your roll habit. Use retreating f-airs to keep ur distance. If the fair hit proceed with follow-up (usually nair or dair).

3: Adapt

You just went with the flow in this match. Think your movements through, look for basic things you see ur opponent doing and then counter with ur own. Remember you have time so just chill and observe as you fight.

Overall these are the things I think you need to work on, hope I helped and I hope to see you improve. :)
 

RT

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Geez, an aggressive Pit...I miss those days...

Anyways, I would say to stop recovering so low...there were so many times that the Pit could have just held onto the edge and watched you die. Consider going for the stage itself and if possible cancel ES's lag. Yeah, you might get punished for landing on stage, but it's better to take some damage and live than to get gimped at low percents.

Remember that you can fair his arrows if he shooting them at you. Also, consider saving your double jump against Pit. If the arrows start hitting you, saving it could mean the difference between living or dying.
 

Alus

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I'm pissed because at one point i didn't remember roll existed. I remember and i get a win streak up to this guy. And now its a habit.

I have no idea how to approach pit and his stupid close combat game, other than try to roll while he is attacking. The safest way to hit him from my point of view is to shoot em while he is taking arrows out and not even that is safe if im not paying attention.

I can't see how i use Fair against his arrows... They come so fast at different angles and the time can be altered by the main. How do i practice this? I have never really seen it done much either.
 

iDeo

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I'm pissed because at one point i didn't remember roll existed. I remember and i get a win streak up to this guy. And now its a habit.

I have no idea how to approach pit and his stupid close combat game, other than try to roll while he is attacking. The safest way to hit him from my point of view is to shoot em while he is taking arrows out and not even that is safe if im not paying attention.

I can't see how i use Fair against his arrows... They come so fast at different angles and the time can be altered by the main. How do i practice this? I have never really seen it done much either.
He's saying that if u time ur fair right u can ping the arrow. There is no way to really practice this but just to get lucky most of the time. Not all things are avoidable, it's just you have to react and execute when situations come up.

Wat I'd prefer you do, if Pit is giving you a hard time, is to play the character and learn his ins and outs. That way you'll know wat to do when you play a Pit the next time around. It's helped me in my MK MU. Not saying its gonna help you win all ur matches you fight that character but it'll give you idea on wat to do.
 

RT

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As soon as you hear Pit release an arrow, just fair. By the time Pit it ready to shoot another one, fair should be pretty much done.

Consider ftilt and jabs more against Pit. Since Pit has a pretty good ground game upclose thanks to his fast moves, you may want to consider faster options rather than fsmash.
 

D. Disciple

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Approaching Pit is easy, pressure him with fairs. Seriously, just stand in place and fair the arrows, he'll get annoyed. Then just walk up and approach him, cause every time you did he would roll behind you and put up his shield. You have time to dsmash him, utilt him or even fsmash him. You're gonna use jabs, tilts a lot in this match up, and when they're off stage and trying to shoot arrows, just fair them or grab the edge to force him to go back onto the stage. His spot dodge is punishable by the 1st jab, so practice learning how to cancel it extremely fast to catch him.
 

HyperEnergy

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Regarding the arrows offstage, practice canceling them with fairs. Keep in mind that Lucario's fair comes out on frame 7 so you're going to have to start fair a little early in order to get the hitbox out in time to cancel the arrow. It just takes some time to get used to. Also, you have no defense against them if they come from below so just air dodge in those cases.

Likewise, when you're on the ground and powershielding arrows and you're coming closer to him, be prepared to roll towards him if he brings out another arrow so that you can give him a taste of the ol' utilt. Always be on the lookout for this because you don't get many chances for free damage in this MU.

Never go close range against Pit. Period. Everything he does there is faster than you, more disjointed than you and will probably do more damage and knockback than you. If there's one rule you must follow against Pit, it's to never get close to him when he's not in lag.

When Pit is on the ledge, fsmash needs to be spaced even farther than usual because of Pit's range. And even then it should only be used in reaction to what Pit does because otherwise his aerials and arrows will out-speed you.

And speaking of the ledge, don't fight him there. It's not worth the risk period. Uair comes out fast and has dumb horizontal range (if you aren't at least fsmash distance away from the edge you will be hit by it) and completely negates anything you can do to him. Of course, don't be afraid to occasionally jump out there and test for a reaction. Sometimes Pit won't be expecting it and you can react with dair. And none of this applies if Pit is using Wings of Icarus, feel free to go all out in those cases.

FCAS is so useful in this MU, always keep one handy (easier said than done because of those bloody arrows) to punish him for making a foolish decision. See, for some reason Pit's move not only start up quick, they also end quick so AS is pretty much your only tool to punish a lot of Pit's moves. Contrast to Lucario who's moves only end quickly. Anyway, NEVER fire it off unless you've either seen him start an attack you can punish or are 99% sure you know what he's going to do next. This means never use it when Pit is on the ledge unless Pit doesn't know he has a Mirror Shield.

Oh yes, I agree with Disciple's advice of using more jabs and tilts. It will make life so much easier against Pit.

Anyways, I really should wrap up this post now. Especially since I'm tired and I probably sound pretty negative in this post because of that. >>

So I will finish off by saying that you as a player seem to be too focused on hitting your opponent with moves instead of waiting for openings and attacking at proper times. Granted, Pit isn't exactly a well known MU but it's something you should keep in mind.

As an example, look at the match starting at 6 seconds in. Pit did a jab combo then immediately put up his shield. You responded with an ftilt, and immediately afterward you fsmashed. The ftilt worked in that situation because Pit was in his shield and next to the edge. He felt pressured and decided to roll away from the edge. You made the decision to fsmash right after your ftilt, a poor decision considering you were close enough to your opponent that he could roll behind you. A better response would have been to walk backwards a little bit and pause for a moment while keeping your focus on your opponent, then you would've seen his roll and punished it with an utilt. Walking backwards is a good response because you were too close to your opponent; in fact, whenever you're not fsmash tipper distance away or farther you're too close and it should bring up a red flag in your mind that you need to increase the distance between you and your opponent. Additionally, Pit being next to the edge and all meant that even if you walk back a little, he won't be able to retreat.

So yeah, resist the urge to use moves out of habit basically.
 

The_Rake

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Heres some matches recorded at a fest I went to last week. GP (Golden Psyco) wanted a Bo5 with everyone to put on the ike boards so i decided to throw these on here

Yoshis Island (We forgot to save the first we did where I 2 stocked him so we re did it)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnPlNP5y-fk

After that I banned BF and he Cp'd Brinstar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1EcYYwgkwE

Then he went Pokemon Stadium 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysyMGwPlkQY

He Banned FD so I CP'd Frigate (Havn't got this vid yet either but I 3 stocked him)


We had some friendlies afterwards on FD and BF
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uHFIrHMrSs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNPqq4J1LPg
Please give me some critique n all that
 

MythTrainerInfinity

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If you can force him to Aether to recover you can snipe him when he pops up with Aura Sphere. FSmash is okay, but if you whiff you're going to take damage.

There were dozens of times he could've used NAir or FAir to whack you away. Just be aware of danger zones and you're good.

Nice Lucario by the way.
 

The_Rake

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Ty yea i know Aura is safer to use but on all those occasions i didn't have a charged aura so in those vids you dont see the fsmash working so much, probably because i tend to throw the spheres at them offstage to either knock him out or put him under more pressure. In the frigate vid 2 of the kills are from spaced fsmashes when he uses aether (theres also a phenominal recovery so I hope I can get that vid)

Nice Lucario by the way.
It's not the best lucario in the uk for nothing ;)


Ok, the pokemon stadium and battlefield matches are up
 

The_Rake

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Tbf you did a lot right in that matchup

Best way to play oli is to keep in the air, all of our ariels beat out his and his ground game is better than ours so most of your approaches were arial which is good. You didn't spam aura too, oli is annoying because he's like GaW in that you cant spam against him (a pikmin cancels out any sized sphere) so good job there too.
You was even mixing up jab combos, notices jab>grab and jab>dtilt as well as following things through which helps mix things up.
You need to try to keep him in the air though, as i said, you have a better ariel game than he does and he spent a lot of time grounded so you could have tried pressuring him too, but apart from that well done, I know how hard the oli matchup is, I play doplghost, a seriously good oli player in uk and he is so hard to take on.
 

DusK-The-Stray

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Tbf you did a lot right in that matchup

Best way to play oli is to keep in the air, all of our ariels beat out his and his ground game is better than ours so most of your approaches were arial which is good. You didn't spam aura too, oli is annoying because he's like GaW in that you cant spam against him (a pikmin cancels out any sized sphere) so good job there too.
You was even mixing up jab combos, notices jab>grab and jab>dtilt as well as following things through which helps mix things up.
You need to try to keep him in the air though, as i said, you have a better ariel game than he does and he spent a lot of time grounded so you could have tried pressuring him too, but apart from that well done, I know how hard the oli matchup is, I play doplghost, a seriously good oli player in uk and he is so hard to take on.
Thanks, I just really dislike this match-up, even worse is that that's just my second match vs. an Oli, not many Olimar mains that I know of and the 2 I know vary SO MUCH in play style.
 

The_Rake

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Thanks, I just really dislike this match-up, even worse is that that's just my second match vs. an Oli, not many Olimar mains that I know of and the 2 I know vary SO MUCH in play style.
Yea i know what you mean, theres been a few oli players i've played, the best one doesnt camp at all and he is very good at being over aggressive

feel free to take a look at my matches ;) ^^^^^
 

HyperEnergy

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Match 1:

:15 - You attempted an fsmash on MK which gave GaW a free attack on you (an opportunity he failed to take advantage of).

Pay more attention to your opponent so that you know when to attack and when to defend.

:35: - You were able to get an fair string going on GaW but without a second jump you could only pull off two. The problem is that after the string finished, you used nair which left you open to attack. Remember, nair after fair is a good option when people are below you, not above you.

A better option would've been to use an air dodge. Since the fair string put you below your opponent, and GaW's dair beats Luc's options in this situation, an air dodge would've saved you from getting hit by GaW's attack.

:40 - Poor use of fair. GaW was in the middle of a jump, but right as you decided to fair he did a second jump which put him in an advantageous position. However, the problem in this case is that you continued to throw out attacks as if you were both in neutral positions. The bair that came after your fair was in no way going to hit GaW and so it only served to give you landing lag. Then you did an fsmash after landing, which is never a good choice against aerial opponents unless they're trying to escape your attacks and reach safety (which doesn't describe GaW here).

Shield would've been a good option to use in this situation. After the fair missed, you should've realized that you were in a bad position to attack but still a good position to defend. After reaching the ground safely, put up a shield and work from there. If GaW naired/dsmashed your shield, you could've damaged him with a grab or jab out of shield or any number of other options.

:42 - Dairing your teammate? Make sure you know where your teammate is in a doubles match at all times (unless he's dead already of course). This is easier said than done but it really only takes conscious practice until you get used to it.

As long as you consciously focus on paying attention to both your opponents and your teammate when practicing doubles, it'll become a habit.

Another thing about this is your choice of dair as a momentum canceling move. Fair should always be the move of choice when momentum canceling. The reasoning behind using dair seems to be that using dair causes that person to auto-fastfall. This isn't really false but doesn't apply to Lucario because the momentum canceling effects of his dair cause him to be unable to affect his movement when using dair in hitstun (hence why rising dair exists). Thus dair is worse than using nothing because at least while you're using nothing you still slow down. The only other reason I can think of for this is that it just becomes a habit somewhere along the way.

So the solution to this is to simply get rid of the habit and replace it with fair and fastfalling regularly.

1:01 - I'm not exactly sure what you did here, but anyway it's clear you did something that caused you to get hit by dsmash. By the time the dsmash hit you were already in a bad situation. You were on a small platform with little space and taking shield pressure from GaW. From what I saw you were paralyzed in your shield and unsure what to do.

I think the best thing you could've done here was to escape after the first dair came from GaW at 1:00. You had plenty of time to escape back to your teammate and possibly hit GaW with an fair in the process.

1:11 - Trying to hit GaW out of his upB? Never a good move because it's fast and has invincibility.

You probably already know this was a bad idea so I'm just going to tell you to pay attention to these urges to hope nonsense moves work and eliminate them whenever they come up.

1:16 - Again, not really sure what you did (maybe you didn't even do anything lol). All I know is that you got hit by a glide attack.

So if you did some sort of move, remember not to do it when MK is just about to glide attack you. And if you didn't do anything and weren't able to reach the ground fast enough to put up a shield, either fast fall after your jump next time or don't use ledge drop to jump when you could simply push the control stick towards the stage to get on normally or make sure ledge drop jump doesn't leave you vulnerable.

1:27 - Fair to dair. If you miss with fair, then dair is pretty much guaranteed to miss. And since dair stops your momentum, you put yourself right in position to get hit with a GaW bair.

Next time make sure you're prepared to give up on dair when using it leaves you vulnerable. Simply landing without doing anything or landing with an air dodge would have prevented you from sustaining damage and being hit towards MK.

1:35 - Trying to hit MK with dair before he gets to the ledge eh? Well you were about a step away from succeeding. However, right before you reached the ledge it should've been clear that you wouldn't make it. (In fact, I find it highly likely that you did realize this but simply kept going with your planned response anyway).

All you need to do is be prepared to drop your plan when it is clear that it's not going to work. Shield to jump away or shield to roll away would've saved you from a glide attack.

1:39 - Same situation as before really, only more subtle this time around. When you saw MK fall down into that river, it probably triggered that awful Lucario habit of dairing anything below you. Look at this part of the match though and tell me if MK was anywhere near your dair. And even worse, was the risk vs reward worth it? If you hit MK with dair then you give him about 10 damage and maybe kill him if he had bad DI. If you miss, MK can grab you, back throw you and pressure you into making mistakes (very easy since it's difficult to maintain composure when almost being gimped like that) so that he can gimp you at around 50% or at least do oodles of damage.

Next time make sure that when you dair, you're at least high enough so that you can escape if necessary. Although I'd recommend paying more attention to where MK actually is so that you don't dair improperly.

2:19 - Be careful of grabbing while facing the wrong direction. You utilted beforehand so you really have no excuse here for letting GaW grab you.

A better alternative would've been to roll behind GaW. Predictable yes, but in a doubles match it's much harder to see coming. And it's not like you've been spamming rolls either so feel free to do it in situations like this where you have no other options.

2:22 - An attempted fsmash after the previous grab. Seems like you let the pressure GaW was giving you affect your thinking and did a retaliatory fsmash to get GaW out of your hair. And then you got KOed. Whenever you're feeling pressured, you should be even more motivated to stay focused so as to not make rash decisions. I mean, would you really use fsmash after a GaW dthrow in any other situation?

Had you kept your shield up the worst that could've happened was another grab from GaW. The most likely scenario, however, was that GaW would've hit your shield, pushing you off the stage and giving you a chance to grab the ledge and reset the situation.


That's pretty much all I have to say about the first match. Otherwise at the end when only MK was left, you and Rob hit each other way too many times. To avoid situations like this, talk with your partner about who will take a solitary opponent at the end of the match. The last thing you want is a 1v2 comeback to happen against you.

And if anything in this is unclear just mention it and I'll try to explain better.
 

Steam

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15: I'll keep that in mind next time

35: I was dumb and thought I could get the nair to land, I wouldn't have used it there if I didn't think it would land.

40: I'm not sure what I tried to do after bair but I screwed up something as Lucario kinda had a seizure there lol.

42: If you use C-stick it auto fastfalls, and dair is one frame faster than fair so it's slightly better. and certainly the better choice when you get hit up. but I use both moves to MC. I think I use fair more than dair overall though

1:01: I rolled into his nair and wasnt at all ready for the follow up. the decision to roll itself was ******** though, especially on a platform of that size.

1:11: yeah I've been punished for that so many times, same with mario's.

1:16: I couldn't shield in time =( I don't think fast falling would have mattered since I hit the apex of my jump just before hitting the ground =/

1:27: really trying to break this awful habit of mine =( I need someone to give me lashes everytime I do this

1:35: I think I just dair'd to late. still my bad

1:39: I'm such a *******

2;19: remembered to reverse utilt but not reverse grab, either that or I thought he would land on the other side of me (this used to kick my ***) I'm not entirely sure.

2:22: scrubario

yeah we were hitting each other a lot in the end. =/
 

The_Rake

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Dark 3nergy

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keens got a good peach, hes really eager to step up his game with her and keeps a good positive attitude. If he keeps working hard hes gonna have a real *****in peach one day

idk why at mlg i was just sucking hard on lucy, but i got on him today[those were from this afternoon] my act was all together despite my physical condition johns. I think chillin out here and helping out other lucys is what brought about my current lucy and my better understanding of him
 
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