The Old Diddy Social/General/Q&A Thread

[DFEAR]

ksizzle is the master of tornadoes. i actually think he looks up technical tornado stuff, i couldnt once nair him out of it he kept moving slightly left and right. **** was broken. gg's.

im mad i didnt 2-0 mvd. im always about to ****ing 2-0 his ***, but course last stock him at like 200+ and me at like 120 he starts double jumping cypher camping, he basically ran away like wario :s he basically killd me cuz i was impatient for the win.

i then cp'd him to rc. i was winning by a stock low%, he comes down charges fsmash im like *are you serious face* run dash grab, he has long since started fsmash like a second but **** that **** had a lingering hitbox behind him! i died at like 30 from edge of stage with bad di : [. **** went downhill from there from saltiness.

and in my set vs m2k i brought him down to last stock both times but wtf he was doing new diddy gimping ****. i was like wtf i can get gimped like this? mostly bair ****. that **** beat barrels clean and mk bair knocking me out of barrels had enough hitstun for him to COMBO to upb or dair : [

i couldve placed 9th+ if i have beaten mvd. biskit/fatal are not so hard at all. snake is easy now. gotta see that razer status tho, him havin legit diddy traning etc.

w.e good tourney. ****ing hating losing to florida.

 

[-Googs]

only flordia loses to flordia cause flordia is bad

 

[DFEAR]

w.e makes u sleep

 

[Player-1]

Good stuff dfear sounds like you were playing really well I want vids =p. Hood stuff CPing RC now <3 just win next time

 

[DFEAR]

yea i have the set vs ksizzle/noid/mvd/m2k(1match)

i was playing mad stylish i might say

yea man rc is really good for diddy imo :3 i can gay ppl yay

 

[-Googs]

i actually like flordia xaltis is just a complete idiot and makes your region look dumb. And you guys have trouble backing up your trashtalk, otherwise fl is just easy to troll. I don't like RC cause you can't infinite I got the infinite on a snake player on saturday i'll post it when it gets uploaded.

 

[DFEAR]

backing up our trashtalk wtf? what do you even mean? when you trash talk, ****s about belittling someone to dust and not care if its true. trash being true imo is a personal attack and ill cut you for that ****. ****s about fun and hype not gang ****. this is trash talk not real talk, but NOW its real talk. gtfo with that ****

xaltis is xaltis is all i gotta say.

 

[Dekar173]

I don't like RC cause you can't infinite

????????????????????????????????

 

[-Googs]

dont get insulted dfear man, i was just saying flordia is always mad cocky but doesn't always place, sometimes they do, but then theres times like ktar6...

 

[Ingulit]

So, I played against Michaleas (I know I'm spelling that wrong), a Wario who is PRed in GA. I got wrecked since I didn't know the MU, but he gave me some advice that I want the opinion of you guys on:

The basis for his advice lies in the fact that Wario takes 7 frames to jump.

He said that Jabbing Wario's Shield and then Grabbing is almost completely legit, since none of his OoS options (except Spotdodge) are fast enough to avoid the Jab. My question then is: can't Wario Shield Grab, or is it slower than our Grab because of the shield stun? (This is all assuming it wasn't a Perfect Shield the Jab hit)

He said that the absolute best possible position for Diddy against Wario on the ground is holding a Banana and standing just outside Wario's F-Tilt range. According to him, in this situation, Wario has very few options to punish a MFK. What are his options in this case?

Finally, he says Diddy should always take a Wario to a stage with platforms (IE, not FD) since that can mess up Wario's aerial approches. In fact, he never struck or banned FD. I always thought platforms enabled Wario to air camp better since we can't as easily take advantage of when he finally does land; am I wrong?

I wish the matches got saved for critique, but I don't think they did.

 

[Count]

Should've given you the heads up about m2k gimping stuff. Dfear ftw tho!

 

[-Googs]

i 2-0'd my #1 pr'd this weekend, second match was a 2 stock. He mains mk but it was a mk banned tourney so he used his wario (which is pretty legit). I just threw out a lot of fairs and bairs and it worked. Also zdrop nana to fair is great. Jab+grab worked a lot

 

[Player-1]

Ingluit, he hasn't maimed wario too ling, but the stage thing I think us wring wario can easily get passed platform approaches with his insane air mobility, they just have to adjust to it. YI is really the only stage that the platform messes with air approaches

 

[DFEAR]

i wasnt insulted. googs too good at trolling.

 

[Gnes]

Snake seems to be easier if you play a more campier style. I've been alternating between playing really rush oriented and playing really defensive and i dont know if diddy has the tools to pressure snake enough once he gets in.

Good shiz anyway at ktar dfear. I'm proud of you

Also, how do you approach mk? I really don't understand how were suppose to win when most of our approach options(or at least the ones i've noticed) are super easy for him to stop.

 

[Player-1]

You don't approach him >.> against snake and the most of the cast I switch between campy and aggressive b

 

[DFEAR]

i couldve have done better gnes : [.

campy beats snake until the juggling starts then go aggro to repeat the bad situation for him. dunno works for me.

 

[Staco]

Also, how do you approach mk? I really don't understand how were suppose to win when most of our approach options(or at least the ones i've noticed) are super easy for him to stop.

Get him in bad situations, pressure him.
If he gets in the air, hit him with naners + follow up, if he is on the stage, hit him with naners + follow up.
If he is on the edge, wait for him to comeback and pressure him with peanuts, naners etc.

Have a naner in your hand and wait for him to do sth. or if he just does nothing, throw the naner at close distance or in a situation, where he is pressured, so that he won´t react to it.

There´s your approach.

 

[DFEAR]

Get him in bad situations, pressure him.
bad situations. mk? doesnt happen. a player himself could have a bad situation but the situation can easily be reversed in this matchup. one mistake and now diddy is getting gimped

If he gets in the air, hit him with naners + follow up,
if anything it should be peanuts + never follow up. only time youd ever want to catch mk in the air is to punish ending lag (RISKY STILL) and/or pressure him to waste his jumps and force landing.

if he is on the stage, hit him with naners + follow up.
easier said than done man : [, anyone can shield/catch/throw a banana right back. its rock paper scissors.

If he is on the edge, wait for him to comeback and pressure him with peanuts, naners etc.
wait for him to come back? dood mk's WILL scrooge and shark you until that timer is gone. plus he has ******** anti ledge pressure. upair, upb, w.e HE will come back on whenever he wants but why would he lol


Have a naner in your hand and wait for him to do sth. or if he just does nothing, throw the naner at close distance or in a situation, where he is pressured, so that he won´t react to it.
lolwut

There´s your approach.

reply in red.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Snake seems to be easier if you play a more campier style. I've been alternating between playing really rush oriented and playing really defensive and i dont know if diddy has the tools to pressure snake enough once he gets in.

Good shiz anyway at ktar dfear. I'm proud of you

Also, how do you approach mk? I really don't understand how were suppose to win when most of our approach options(or at least the ones i've noticed) are super easy for him to stop.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=308027

 

[Ingulit]

I'm finally PRed, plan to keep going up

 

[Dekar173]

Get him in bad situations, pressure him.
If he gets in the air, hit him with naners + follow up, if he is on the stage, hit him with naners + follow up.
If he is on the edge, wait for him to comeback and pressure him with peanuts, naners etc.

Have a naner in your hand and wait for him to do sth. or if he just does nothing, throw the naner at close distance or in a situation, where he is pressured, so that he won´t react to it.

There´s your approach.

You're replying to gnes buddy he won mlg for a reason

 

[MARLX]

What is diddy kong's momentom cancel? (Horizantel and vertical).

 

[Gnes]

Thanks Dfear, idk, I'm getting sick of only being able to punish mk when he makes a mistake and not force mistakes.

Jebus, that has nothing to do with my question.

 

[Dekar173]

What is diddy kong's momentom cancel? (Horizantel and vertical).

airdodge or airdodge canceled item throw (instant throw, if you have an item in hand).

and

FF bair/dair

 

[Luigi player]

Gnes:

Maybe you shouldn't focus too much on trying to beat MK, but the player using him. Look for his habits etc to try to find a way to beat him...

Throwing bananas up helps at approaching an MK, because you'll force him offstage (if he stays on/above the stage he has to avoid/catch them to not get hit). If he's on/above the stage you can try to treaten him with fairs/banana throws, bairs or maybe with grounded moves or sideB kick (always depends on the situation/positions).
Most of the time it's just difficult being able to pull that even off if they rush you down and immediately take a banana away from you or something... :\ peanuts can help too (mix up a lot, also peanutcancel to bananathrow)
(this is btw mostly assuming that MK camps in the air; on the ground I wouldn't say it's too hard to approach him....)

If MK knows how to avoid your peanuts you can't really force him to approach if you don't have the lead so you have to force him into bad positions/take away options with your bananas.

If both of you are grounded I really like shooting a peanut and then running at my opponent (if he's just standing there), because it can protect you a little from grabs and you can shield somewhat safely in front of him and try to punish him somehow.

What is diddy kong's momentom cancel? (Horizantel and vertical).

short:

horizontal-up (if you could die off the top since you DIed to one of the top corners): bair (with fastfall) -> (doublejump ->?) (smash-)sideB

horizontal (if you won't die off the top): airdodge -> (doublejump ->?) (smash-)sideB

vertical: dair (or bair with fastfall) | dair is activating the fastfall one frame earlier than if you'd do a different aerial with fastfall, but it won't be really noticeable; the difference probably isn't even 1 %... so it's a very very very minimal and unnoticeable difference and you should probably just try to bair (since you'll momentumcancel with it all the time and are used to it)

You have to watch out with horizontal momentumcancelling, because if you dj/sideB too early you can sometimes die a few %s earlier than if you'd wait a few frames before doing it.


Here are my testings:

These tests are not perfect (and done in training mode)! I don't have the tools to test this frame by frame, so they are probably not 100 % correct, but they should come pretty close.


Momentum cancelling if you're hit horizontally:

MK is on left side of FD (roll to edge).
Diddy to the right of him (roll into MK on the edge to get near enough).

MK does dsmash

No DI; Diddy won't die off the top, but to the (right) side.

180 %
survives with airdodge->smashsideB
survives with airdodge->jump->sideB
survives with bair->smashsideB
survives with bair->jump->smashsideB

181 %
survives with airdodge->smashsideB (survives without the need to hold left)
survives with airdodge->jump->sideB (survives without the need to hold left)
survives with bair->smashsideB (survives without the need to hold left)
survives with bair->jump->smashsideB (survives without the need to hold left)

182 %
survives with airdodge->smashsideB (survives without the need to hold left)
survives with airdodge->jump->sideB (survives without the need to hold left)
survives with bair->smashsideB (after/during sideB you need hold left, else you won't survive)
survives with bair->jump->smashsideB (survives without the need to hold left)

183 %
survives with airdodge->smashsideB (after/during sideB you need hold left, else you won't survive)
survives with airdodge->jump->sideB (after/during sideB you need hold left, else you won't survive)

184 %
won't survive


Other stuff:

With no momentumcancel Diddy would die at 154 %.

The doublejump does help a bit against horizontal momentum:
161 % - survives with airdodge->hold left [won't survive at 162 %]
171 % - survives with airdodge->doublejump (+hold left) [won't survive at 172 %]



Momentum cancelling if you're hit up:

Falco does an upsmash; no DI

119 % - won't survive without momentum cancel (at 118 % Diddy survives)

125 % - can survive with nair (fastfalled, of course)
126 % - survives with any fastfalled aerial (except nair?)

DI to the direction Falco faces

129 % - survives (with fastfalled aerial, maybe not nair)

DI behind Falco

136 % - survives (with fastfalled aerial, maybe not nair)

(seems like dair really doesn't change much (you activate your fastfall 1 frame faster with dair))



If you're DIing to one of the top corners momentum cancelling get's a bit more tricky.
Last time I tested it was a long time ago so I'm not too sure anymore how it was...

but I think that this was the best method...:

bair (fastfalled)->wait a little bit (so you won't die off the top because of a little momentumboost from sideB/doublejump)->(smash)sideB


EDIT: alright, I searched for my old testings and found the post:

But I noticed something... if you get hit into a top corner and bair +fastfall then double jump I died immediately after using the DJ, but when I waited a little bit before using the DJ I survived (without the double jump and only a dair or bair+fastfall I died). I also survived using fair(&fastfall) and then DJ, you just have a wait a little bit before double jumping... the thing with dair is, it has so much ending lag that if you DJ after it immediately you'll survive.
And you only die from bair+DJ, because you DJ too early.
I could also survive with airdodge+fastfall and dj, but I also had to wait a little bit before DJing or else I died. (this testing was done at 160 % (middle of FD, MK did dsmash on Diddy (training mode)); I ALWAYS held up on the controlstick while getting hit)

At a bit later % (165)... you can't survive with airdodge then fastfall and DJ. No matter what I did I always died.

I could survive with dair+dj and bair+fastfall+wait a bit + dj and with bair+fastfall+sideB.

At 171 % I couldn't survive with dair because it has too much ending lag. But I could survive with bair+fastfall+waitjustalittlebit+sideB (DJ KOd me). It was also possible to survive with fair+fastfall+DJ+sideB...

172 % I could also survive with bair+fastfall+waitjustalittlebit+sideB, fair had too much ending lag.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

@Gnes, Approach him with that and you will limit his options. You take away his ability to tilt and grab you.

 

[Gnes]

How do u take away his ability to grab you? If he spaces a move correctly on your shield you won't be able to grab. If you roll back, your pushing yourself towards a ledge and giving away stage control.

@Luigi Player I'll try using peanuts more offensively.
What would you guys suggest against mks that just camp near the ledge when they have the lead? It literally feels that its impossible to force and approach that has low risk high reward.

 

[DFEAR]

Thanks Dfear, idk, I'm getting sick of only being able to punish mk when he makes a mistake and not force mistakes.

Jebus, that has nothing to do with my question.

i got scrooged and timed out. i dont think its possible anymore. mk makes a mistake i give him that 12-20% punish, i make a mistake it means 10-50%, off stage, bad situation, forced to use moves to survive, easy potential stock loss. srsly

 

[Dekar173]

i got scrooged and timed out. i dont think its possible anymore. mk makes a mistake i give him that 12-20% punish, i make a mistake it means 10-50%, off stage, bad situation, forced to use moves to survive, easy potential stock loss. srsly

Only person here speaking truth.



When a character has options that are so ridiculously overpowered, there's no such thing as YOU pressuring THEM.

Seriously. MKs don't even use everything their character is capable of, and we STILL lose handily to them... as the #2 character in the game.

GG.

 

[Player-1]

spefically an instant throw down would be his fastest.

air dodge is faster than bair btw.

 

[Player-1]

also, gnes against MK you really have to know the MKs playstyle well to win the MU if they're good at the Diddy MU. When I played M2K the first couple games I got scraped by him and then I changed my playstyle into a really unorthodox one that was spontaneous and I did a lot better against him.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

How do u take away his ability to grab you? If he spaces a move correctly on your shield you won't be able to grab. If you roll back, your pushing yourself towards a ledge and giving away stage control.

@Luigi Player I'll try using peanuts more offensively.
What would you guys suggest against mks that just camp near the ledge when they have the lead? It literally feels that its impossible to force and approach that has low risk high reward.

It's an option select. You will roll away if he doesn't throw out an attack. You will avoid the grab as long as you are not in his grab range. You can also roll forward but you can't do this one while walking towards your opponent. you have to put your control stick in the neutral position. He extends his hurt box when he throws out tilts and your shield slide will help you grab him. Don't do it when you are close to the ledge

 

[SaveMeJebus]

How do u take away his ability to grab you? If he spaces a move correctly on your shield you won't be able to grab. If you roll back, your pushing yourself towards a ledge and giving away stage control.

@Luigi Player I'll try using peanuts more offensively.
What would you guys suggest against mks that just camp near the ledge when they have the lead? It literally feels that its impossible to force and approach that has low risk high reward.

It's an option select. You will roll away if he doesn't throw out an attack and you will not get grabbed as long as you are not in his grab range. He extends his hurt box when he throws out tilts and your shield slide will help you grab him. You can also roll into him by shielding and pressing c-stick forward but your control stick has to be in the neutral position for that one to work.

 

[Gnes]

Jebus, do you have vids of this working against a mk that is poking your shield with safe options?
Not just tilts, aerials as well.

Also, why would you not have a naner in your hand when your approaching mk. Thats literally just dumb.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Jebus, do you have vids of this working against a mk that is poking your shield with safe options?
Not just tilts, aerials as well.

Also, why would you not have a naner in your hand when your approaching mk. Thats literally just dumb.

I don't have any videos but I have tested it in tournament. This cuts down all of his ground options. What more can you ask for?

Pull out bananas if the MK doesn't approach you. This is for when you have no bananas and MK is playing the tilt game against you. He would never do that if you have a banana at hand.

 

[Player-1]

It's called spacing bro, that doesn't do much if MK is spacing well

 

[SaveMeJebus]

It's called spacing bro, that doesn't do much if MK is spacing well

It's called him extending his hurt box when he throws out tilts and your shield slide animation pushing you towards him allowing you to get the grab

 

[Player-1]

....


It's called spacing, let me know when you figure out what that is.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

....


It's called spacing, let me know when you figure out what that is.

MK could perfectly space all he wants and he is still going to get grabbed because of Diddy's shield slide and the fact that he extends his hurt box when he throws out tilts.