The Official Yoshi FAQ/Q&A Thread -- [Please look here before posting!]

[~Firefly~]

I have another question that ties into the general advice I asked for earlier. As I mentioned, I'm entering my first tournament, but my favorite counterpick (Norfair) is banned, and I have no idea what to do. I know that the effectiveness of stage counterpicks varies greatly with the character the opponent is using, but overall, what would be a good starting point for counterpicking with Yoshi? I tried looking in the stage discussion thread from the link in the thread locater, but I didn't get a whole lot of info from that. Are there any solid stages that I can generally count on to give me a little bit of an edge, or will I have to test it out myself to figure out what works for me? Again, thanks in advance for the help.

 

[nicalobe]

Hmm, I've never been to a tournament with Norfair being banned. But given the case, I'd try and choose stages where you can come up through the bottom, like Delfino or Halberd, mainly because you have a lot of options from underneath, so long as your careful to not get your heavy armor overpowered.

 

[Poltergust]

For me, my best counterpicks are Rainbow Cruise (I'm pratically married to it <3), Halberd, and in some cases Castle Siege.

Counterpicking with Yoshi is really a matter of how you play. Although, two stages that you should NEVER counterpick are Frigate Orpheon (except against Olimar) and Luigi's Mansion (ESPECIALLY against Olimar lol).

 

[Yosheon]

I don't have much of a problem with Luigi's Mansion.

Anyway, is Yoshi capable of putting someone in the jab lock? Someone told me he can do it, but I can never pull it off.

 

[~Firefly~]

Hmm, I do like both Delfino Plaza and Rainbow Cruise. I'll probably play some matches on those before the tourney to see which one I perform better on. I'm not a fan of the first two parts of Castle Siege, and I don't like the platforms on Halberd. I had no desire to go to Frigate Orpheon, and I was planning on banning Luigi's Mansion anyway.

One last thing; Yoshi's Island (Melee) is a permitted counterpick for whatever reason. How often would it be worth it to take my opponent there to chaingrab them off the side of the screen? I'm not really comfortable with the stage as a whole, because I haven't played on it frequently.

 

[Poltergust]

Well, it's a really good stage if you can chain-grab them both horizontally and diagonally. Can Meta Knight be chain-grabbed up a slope? (They'd probably ban it anyways, though)

 

[Shiri]

Yes, Meta Knight can be chained up slopes.

 

[Poltergust]

Then choose that.

It can also work on other characters that can be chain-grabbed up slopes. I should try to do some research on that (so I can finally contribute something worthwhile to the Yoshi community; I feel like a leech ).

 

[~Firefly~]

Sorry, I missed the post. >_< It wouldn't have made a difference anyway. There was an unusual lack of Metaknights there. I'll keep that in mind for next time though.

 

[Yosheon]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=233929

Is Yoshi capable of doing this? I can't test it myself since I don't have access to a Wii at the moment.

 

[bigman40]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=233929

Is Yoshi capable of doing this? I can't test it myself since I don't have access to a Wii at the moment.

Yes.

Has anyone done a chart about what moves Yoshi can take during his DJ? If anyone has done this, plz PM me the list, as I'm really interested in it right now.

 

[K.Mac]

Can someone post a video up of Yoshi doing that then, if it's possible for him to do it?

It would really help me gimp people into a CG.

 

[JOE!]

got more of a discussion thingy here than a question, but It's bugged me since I've heard it, and I'd like to know some other yoshi's opionins:

"Yoshi is almost never at an advantage, their are character sthat have a better ground game than his, a better air game, better recovery, etc, etc. He has all these [mediocre] traits, but doesnt really excel at one thing"

Thats a rough copy of the quote from way back (someone last year said something similar).

And while this may be true, very few characters can out-do us in all areas....I mean, if a char has a better ground game, yoshi more than likley packs a stronger air game...and vice versa..

Why do people think having a character thats "good/decent" in alot of areas, but not "excellent/best" in just like 1 area bad?

 

[Yosheon]

How do we actually perform a Yoshicide?

Has anyone done a chart about what moves Yoshi can take during his DJ? If anyone has done this, plz PM me the list, as I'm really interested in it right now.

A chart like that would be extremely helpful.

 

[auroreon]

got more of a discussion thingy here than a question, but It's bugged me since I've heard it, and I'd like to know some other yoshi's opionins:

"Yoshi is almost never at an advantage, their are character sthat have a better ground game than his, a better air game, better recovery, etc, etc. He has all these [mediocre] traits, but doesnt really excel at one thing"

Thats a rough copy of the quote from way back (someone last year said something similar).

And while this may be true, very few characters can out-do us in all areas....I mean, if a char has a better ground game, yoshi more than likley packs a stronger air game...and vice versa..

Why do people think having a character thats "good/decent" in alot of areas, but not "excellent/best" in just like 1 area bad?

Yoshi is best at horizontal air speed and pretty decent at everything else. The only characters I would be able to use other than Yoshi is Jigglypuff, Wario and Gaymanwatch... notice a trend?

How do we actually perform a Yoshicide?

Yoshicide? As far as Im aware... that just consists of jumping off the edge and not recovering.

Yes.

Has anyone done a chart about what moves Yoshi can take during his DJ? If anyone has done this, plz PM me the list, as I'm really interested in it right now.

That would indeed be useful, I've taken some pretty heavy hits during DJ.
Im updating the research thread now and I'll add something about this.

Can someone post a video up of Yoshi doing that then, if it's possible for him to do it?
It would really help me gimp people into a CG.

Have a go at doing it in training mode, the timing is a bit difficult but deffinatly do-able. Adding this to the research thread, it has so much potential for Yoshi.

 

[bigman40]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RVOTZUTYtc

Stars > Illusion lol

 

[Shiri]

Wow/10

 

[Yosheon]

That's a pretty nice find, and I'm sure we can follow that up with something effective.

Yoshicide? As far as Im aware... that just consists of jumping off the edge and not recovering.

Well, I remember someone saying Yoshi can perform a Yoshicide, so I guess the person was referring to a sacrificial KO or something.

 

[auroreon]

Ok, Im trying to master my DI at the moment and I was wondering how you guys DI.

At the moment I am Fastfalling a Uair as soon as possible to momentum cancel but a lot of the time that doesn't seem to help at all, infact it looks as though its a hinderance.
So I was wondering what you guys are doing for DI, is it worth using the DJ after FF Uair? That seems a bit reckless to me as you lose the DJ, even if u can just drift back to the stage it seems a bit risky.
Also, I know I need to aim for the corners of the screen, but the thing is because I am doing a FF Uair Im using the control stick to FF and so don't have time to aim for corners ussually.

So does anyone know what the best method of DI is for Yoshi?

 

[bigman40]

Ok, Im trying to master my DI at the moment and I was wondering how you guys DI.

At the moment I am Fastfalling a Uair as soon as possible to momentum cancel but a lot of the time that doesn't seem to help at all, infact it looks as though its a hinderance.
So I was wondering what you guys are doing for DI, is it worth using the DJ after FF Uair? That seems a bit reckless to me as you lose the DJ, even if u can just drift back to the stage it seems a bit risky.
Also, I know I need to aim for the corners of the screen, but the thing is because I am doing a FF Uair Im using the control stick to FF and so don't have time to aim for corners ussually.

So does anyone know what the best method of DI is for Yoshi?

I either use a Dair or a Uair > DJ. You aim at the corners to live, then Uair with the C-stick AND Fastfall with the C-stick (inputting downwards will still give you a fastfall as if you did it with the control stick). Even if you lose your DJ trying to save yourself, you egg toss up high, and you can either wavebounce it to make it harder to read your recovery when you're trying to land on the ground, or fast fall to one side or something. It's not that bad when you get used to recovering high a few times.

 

[Metatitan]

mabey lylat cruise will be a good stage against falco. we can use stars to interupt illusion and use the slants at the same time

 

[auroreon]

I either use a Dair or a Uair > DJ. You aim at the corners to live, then Uair with the C-stick AND Fastfall with the C-stick (inputting downwards will still give you a fastfall as if you did it with the control stick). Even if you lose your DJ trying to save yourself, you egg toss up high, and you can either wavebounce it to make it harder to read your recovery when you're trying to land on the ground, or fast fall to one side or something. It's not that bad when you get used to recovering high a few times.

FF with the C-stick! Why did I think of that!
Thanks Scatz, thats will be really useful. I'm used to recovering high anyway, Yoshis horizontal airspeed makes recovering high pretty easy for him.

 

[Bwett]

This is the perfect way to do advanced DI:
1) During the hit, SDI away from where you are about to fly.
2) DI towards one of the two corners.
3) As soon as you can, uair while fastfalling
4) Double jump so you can instantly stop your momentum in that direction

The most important parts of advanced DI is to DI towards the corner, uair, and then to DJ. The SDI and fastfalling only help slightly. They aren't completely vital in most cases. I only do these parts unless I really really care whether I live lol

Also, Metatitan, that's actually a superb idea. Great job

 

[bigman40]

mabey lylat cruise will be a good stage against falco. we can use stars to interupt illusion and use the slants at the same time

If we use this kind of logic, then we can use YI, Lylat, and maybe PKST1 to stop illusion. As it seems that all of those stages make sweetspotting the ledge for him quite hard.

 

[Bwett]

Exactly, sounds like a great idea. I will be testing it soon enough =P

 

[VSC.D-Torr]

mabey lylat cruise will be a good stage against falco. we can use stars to interupt illusion and use the slants at the same time

If we use this kind of logic, then we can use YI, Lylat, and maybe PKST1 to stop illusion. As it seems that all of those stages make sweetspotting the ledge for him quite hard.

Exactly, sounds like a great idea. I will be testing it soon enough =P

I brought up using the slopes in the Down B discussion, not particularly partaining Falco though, but brought up nonetheless. I think it's a great idea as well =D

 

[Teh Future]

ummm, why the **** is yoshi so low on the tier list?

 

[auroreon]

Because he is a pretty unpopular character choice due to his unique playstyle. The lack of dedicated Yoshi mains means that he isn't very well represented in tournaments. Also, people who pick up Yoshi in tournaments who don't really put much effort into learning his style and are just playing him for a laugh make him look worse than he really is.
But also he isn't a great character, its very difficult to do well with him because he just generally isn't as good as higher tier characters. I personally believe he should be a bit higher on the tier list deffinatly, mid tier probably, but many of the Yoshi mains believe him to be a very poor character.
We are all working to get him higher on the tier list.

 

[Metatitan]

Because he is a pretty unpopular character choice due to his unique playstyle. The lack of dedicated Yoshi mains means that he isn't very well represented in tournaments. Also, people who pick up Yoshi in tournaments who don't really put much effort into learning his style and are just playing him for a laugh make him look worse than he really is.
But also he isn't a great character, its very difficult to do well with him because he just generally isn't as good as higher tier characters. I personally believe he should be a bit higher on the tier list deffinatly, mid tier probably, but many of the Yoshi mains believe him to be a very poor character.
We are all working to get him higher on the tier list.

^
not really. tier lists don't mean ****, it doesnt change the char. yoshi is a low tier char and always will be. his one quirk is long range; he has low priority, limited OoS options and trouble killing. two of the three are a trait all low tiers share while the third (OoS) is something yoshi decided to do on his own to make him especially difficult to use.

 

[auroreon]

tier lists don't mean **** it

Oh I see.

yoshi is a low tier char and always will be.

Wait, what!?

his one quirk is long range

I deffinatly wouldn't say he has only has one quirk, and even if he did it certainly isn't long range...

 

[Deleted member]

Yoshi is low tier. 6 months ago we could argue mid tier status, not now.
He frankly isnt good, he has a lack of good approach options besides bair, and that is easy to see coming. He cant kill, and he doesnt have anythign that he really dominates in. For example, samus, a low tier, absolutely dominates in mid range spacing, and has a ton of tools to do it. Yoshi's recovery, while good, is punishable by good players who can read your airdodges. Yoshi has a good camping game against many characters, and a good combo game, but he doesnt have any dominating trait.

 

[Teh Future]

upair is an incredible killing move, you just have to wait until characters are at higher percentages. I dont see anything making yoshi worse than other characters, not to mention he doesnt have any terribly bad matchups against any of the top tiers except falco ond he does decent on all stages.

I think the fact that there are several tournament viable players that use yoshi and you cannot say the same for characters near him on the tier list says all that needs to be said.

 

[Metatitan]

^
hes the third best yoshi, i think he knows what hes talking about. uair is unreliable, its extremely hard to get a hit from it on a good player.

but still, sakurai HATES yoshi. i swear the only reason he puts yoshi in these games is to make him **** tier, he probly tried that with the first one but there was so much hitstun it didnt matter.

 

[Poltergust]

U-air isn't unreliable. It comes out too quickly for it to be so. Eggs can easily set someone up for a u-air.

Sockz is right in saying that he doesn't dominate any one area, whether it be close-range combat, far-range combat, aerial-combat, camping, edgeguarding, etc. That doesn't mean he's terrible at any of these things. He's actually decent all around, just not really good in one particular thing.

I believe that with good tournament results Yoshi can at least move to the top of low-tier (he's definitely not bottom-tier, though). We just have to work harder and reach the level of those like bwett and Green Ace.

 

[Metatitan]

uair is extremely predictable, we arent as floaty as zamus or wario so its can be a tad difficult to read airdodges at time (the fact that wario has massive disjoint helps). its reliable, when you hit, if you hit.

 

[auroreon]

Meta why do you think to poorly of Yoshi?
Only thing I can think is that you keep losing with him =P
But I agree that Uair is very difficult to get in on a skilled player, you have to be smart otherwise its predictable.
Yoshi is an all-around character, meaning he doesn't specialize in a perticular trait.

 

[Metatitan]

Meta why do you think to poorly of Yoshi?
Only thing I can think is that you keep losing with him =P
But I agree that Uair is very difficult to get in on a skilled player, you have to be smart otherwise its predictable.
Yoshi is an all-around character, meaning he doesn't specialize in a perticular trait.

i win plenty, yoshi is not all around and stop being ignorant about it, he has obvious flaws that make him low tier

 

[auroreon]

i win plenty, yoshi is not all around and stop being ignorant about it, he has obvious flaws that make him low tier

By comparison to the high tier characters that populoate tournaments obviously he comes off lookings pretty bad, but he certainly is not one of the worst characters. Compare him to other lower tier characters and he isn't as worthless are you make him out to be.
Also, maybe if you explained your position a bit more instead of just making bland statements I could see your perspective a bit better.
And I think you will find that I am not the one being ignorant here.

 

[Chaco]

I really wish I had the power to give the Yoshi boards some Soap Opera name. I'd love it so much.

 

[Poltergust]

I thought the Peach boards is where all the drama takes place...