The Official Yoshi FAQ/Q&A Thread -- [Please look here before posting!]

[SlayerZaxy]

Egg laying in N64 off stage can be fun, though.

 

[Grizzlpaw]

Ive been wondering, about how viable is yoshi in & tourney setting? I'd like to make him my secondary.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Imo, for a Mid Tier, very, but he's def not as viable as High/Top tier (thus why he is mid). He has no unwinnable MUs, he's weird to play against which gives you an upper hand in a lot of MUs against people who dont have Yoshi experience (which a lot of people dont) and due to Yoshi's top notch mobility, great range, amazing projectile, and good assortment of mixups, even on shield, Yoshi has the tools to keep up with anyone in the game so long as youre patient enough.

 

[Shiri]

That first sentence is both confusing and unnecessary. I'd remove it to add clarity to the post.

 

[Delta-cod]

Yoshi is viable depending on the competition you face in your region. I find that I make it far in tournament as long as I don't run into any problem matchups (typically Falco or Lucario). If your region is Falco heavy, you'll struggle.

I don't like MK banned events around here too much because everyone uses Falco. ****'s gay. >_>

It should be noted that by "viable", I mean "you can win assuming you outplay your opponent by a decently large margin", because Yoshi still isn't an amazing character.

Gashi, for all intents and purposes, Falco is unwinnable.

 

[Deleted member]

Wtf delta i watched u play like balls vs anti's falco. If you play like that always vs falco i can imagine why you think its a hard matchup.

You just dont like the falco matchup >.>
Its not unwinnable at all imo
Its unwinnable when u drop everything and make tons of technical errors to let falco get kills.

 

[Sinister Slush]

I've been seeing Delta complaining about Falco alot, along with gashi and a few others following him.
I really do want to see how he's playing against Falco players... cause I really don't think Falco is a -2 for us.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Cuz its not a -2, its a -3.

 

[Sinister Slush]

That's even more ridiculous and you know it.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Whats even more ridiculous is you thinking it's -1.

 

[Sinister Slush]

I know we've had this discussion tons of times before in random threads + the skype chat a few months back.

I distinctly remember most of us saying Fox and Waffle are the -2's in the spacie trio while Falco was the easiest. Which is why it confuses me when people like Delta changed his mind (like Snake/marth) yet again saying dumb stuff like "Falco is unwinnable! -3"

Just hoping it's some kinda inside joke in the skype chat that I didn't catch since I haven't been in there lately...

 

[Zajice]

Cuz its not a -2, its a -3.

Z'z, wotter u doing.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Uhh, Ive always thought Fox to be the easiest? And imo -3 isnt unwinnable, just INSANELY STUPIDLY hard. Like, you can win, but you have to be hella on point the entire game, pretty much never slip up, and have really sound punishes.

 

[Espy Rose]

-3's are unwinnable at high levels of gameplay.

 

[Scatz]

Uh...I've been saying that Falco is -3 since forever. Delta was neutral in all the discussion, and Stocky kept claiming that it's doable. Falco camping the balls off you can shut down Yoshi's approaches. Not only that, but being up close to Falco isn't good since most attacks throw us back out where we have to go through lasers again.

Also, People been complaining about Fox in the past while I said he's not that hard once you understand that you have to play mid range against him where he doesn't feel safe to laser (and where you're in reaction range).

 

[Z'zgashi]

Not to mention his frame 2 jab which is faster than anything we have when we do get in, the fact that he can just Phantasm away to reset, and his CG which basically means we have to either wait until we take damage, or risk getting grabbed when we approach early. On top of that, good kill moves with bair and usmash, both of which are guaranteed up close if a SHL lands. And since we have to approach eventually as we cant outcamp him, we are forced to deal with all of this.

 

[~Firefly~]

See guys, the trick to fighting Falco is to pick Marth. Then you can use Fair.

~~

 

[Z'zgashi]

Or pick Pikachu and use dthrow.

 

[~Firefly~]

idk, that sounds kinda homo to me...

 

[Z'zgashi]

Well you are against Falco, and you really cant get much more homo than that.

 

[Delta-cod]

Wtf delta i watched u play like balls vs anti's falco. If you play like that always vs falco i can imagine why you think its a hard matchup.

You just dont like the falco matchup >.>
Its not unwinnable at all imo
Its unwinnable when u drop everything and make tons of technical errors to let falco get kills.

I used to like the Falco matchup. In fact, I had an INSANELY positive record against Falco, with my only loss to Falco up until Apex 2011 being to Larry.

Yes, I played awfully against Anti's falco. But guess what, I should have been destroyed worse. Anti didn't play against Yoshi, he played against me, and beat me, using Falco. He didn't beat Yoshi using Falco.

Now, when my set against Keitaro gets put up, you'll realize that I also made several technical errors that probably cost me the set. However, Keitaro didn't play against Deltacod, he played against Yoshi, and Yoshi got *****.

Yoshi cannot approach Falco. He has no answers to SHDL. He has no reliable answer to phantasm, jab, or ftilt. Check the frame data please. Hell, we can't even dash grab a Falco as he lands during a SHDL if he times the second laser well. The laser will trade and he'll break. We don't even get guaranteed options with release off the stage.

We are too slow to beat Falco. Not movement wise, but hitbox wise. He can camp us, and when we get close, just muscle us with quick, high priority hitboxes. We have no chance.

Not to mention his frame 2 jab which is faster than anything we have when we do get in, the fact that he can just Phantasm away to reset, and his CG which basically means we have to either wait until we take damage, or risk getting grabbed when we approach early. On top of that, good kill moves with bair and usmash, both of which are guaranteed up close if a SHL lands. And since we have to approach eventually as we cant outcamp him, we are forced to deal with all of this.

1000000000000x this.

That's even more ridiculous and you know it.

No. Please play a Falco that will camp you, not fight you.

 

[Shiri]

Th-th-thth-the bir-bir-bir-bird, the bird's the word~

 

[Sinister Slush]

No. Please play a Falco that will camp you, not fight you.

(Even though we're already talking in the skype chat)
Funny you mention that. While he isn't a notable Falco, he's still a decent player with tons of potential.

I just finished 6 hours of playing a Falco main (Blondie), his playstyle gradually changed during our 110 or so matches from aggressive approaching, patiently waiting for a **** up to CG and continue to beat up on me, or just camp and Side-B away the whole match.

Regardless of player, I still cannot agree with -3... at most you'll get out of me is -2. But hey, better than me thinking it's -1, right?

 

[Delta-cod]

You played a non notable Falco and you can see it being a -2.

Play a notable one now.

 

[Espy Rose]

I'm with Delta on this one.
If playing Blondie enough helped influence a -2 out of you, lord knows what it would do if someone who applied his advantages to the highest degree went Falco against you.

 

[Sinister Slush]

I've played other Falco's and you know this, Espy.
It was more of the character, not the player. Not like I said "Him alone has made me think it's now -2"

 

[Espy Rose]

No one said you did Slush.
What other Falcos have you played?

The only other player in Texas that plays Falco is Gnes. Otherwise we don't have any high caliber Falco mains that you can play to get that type of experience from.
So really, your opinion on Falco just isn't that well informed as far as application is involved.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Not really Falco mains, but Loko Nike and a few others I know I've played before.
Then there's my brother that I play against everytime he's over.

And that was one of the things I was hoping you'd edit in. We really don't have any notable Falco mains in TX.

 

[Delta-cod]

Which doesn't really help your purpose. You have notable players that use Falco, but not notable Falcos.

A notable Falco will exploit the MU whereas a notable player will simply use Falco to body Yoshi.

The difference will be pretty clear when my set with Keitaro gets put up. Compare his approach to the MU against Anti's.

 

[Z'zgashi]

I personally have played SK92 multiple times (every ****ing time I go to Vegas Im seeded in his pool lmao), I played Choice a while back, I played friendlies against the Japanese Falco, Rain, Ive played a handful of other OoS Falcos, and have a bunch of Falco players in my state (although the last 2 obv dont compare to the first 3), so I've seen and played good Falco players, and trust me, when people play the MU against you correctly, we really cant do much at all.

 

[RaptorTEC]

Which doesn't really help your purpose. You have notable players that use Falco, but not notable Falcos.

A notable Falco will exploit the MU whereas a notable player will simply use Falco to body Yoshi.

The difference will be pretty clear when my set with Keitaro gets put up. Compare his approach to the MU against Anti's.

Both our sets vs Keitaro shouldn't be used as an example UNLESS you only show game 3. Tbh, if he played the way he played in game 3 against both of us it should have been 0-2 on both our parts and not 1-2. I fully agree with -3 Falco now, if the mu is played right I honestly don't see how we can win against a good Falco.

BTW, I'm not sure if your set against Keitaro will be put up. :/

 

[Deleted member]

Now im curious to see how badly you guys got ***** xD
i still disagree.
But whatever =P maybe nobody ive played has ever beaten yoshi with falco, as you put it.
I just have a question. I dont know what other characters you play, but like, if you've ever played the DDD falco matchup, you'd think that based on your description of why yoshi loses, DDD would lose -3 as well no?
Or like the characters that are way slower in movement and attack speed. Which is a lot of characters.

I just feel like, besides not having a shield (which sucks), yoshi does a lot better than a lot of characters at abusing falco in an advantaged position, at least getting in-ish, and gimping falco.

 

[Z'zgashi]

So I 2 stocked my 2nd best in state's Falco today lol. Still a -3 imo, but I do however think that MU might only be -2 on Lylat.

 

[Deleted member]

^ im so proud

fk lylat i would never cp anyone there its so unfun.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Lylat and Frigate are like, the best CP stages ever.

 

[Lukingordex]

The fact is: All neutrals sucks to fight against Falco... (in my opinion)

Is Brinstar a good choice against Falco?

 

[Z'zgashi]

Dude, just go Lylat against Falco, its the best CP ever for him I swear.

 

[Lukingordex]

Ok.......

 

[Delta-cod]

Now im curious to see how badly you guys got ***** xD
i still disagree.
But whatever =P maybe nobody ive played has ever beaten yoshi with falco, as you put it.
I just have a question. I dont know what other characters you play, but like, if you've ever played the DDD falco matchup, you'd think that based on your description of why yoshi loses, DDD would lose -3 as well no?
Or like the characters that are way slower in movement and attack speed. Which is a lot of characters.

I just feel like, besides not having a shield (which sucks), yoshi does a lot better than a lot of characters at abusing falco in an advantaged position, at least getting in-ish, and gimping falco.

To be honest, I don't know enough about the Falco/slow character match ups to be able to comment on this. Other characters probably have redeeming qualities, such as DDD having good poke range, Snake hitting like a truck, or something.

We struggle to get in and Falco can still throw out hitboxes when we DO get in to minimize anything we can get out of it.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Cuz D3 can powershield lasers and when he gets in, has that ridiculous grab and tilt range to outrange Falco's close up game, and D3 can edgeguard Falco REALLY well if he throws him off stage. So unlike with Yoshi, D3 can actually do something when he does get in. Snake is fine cuz his crawl is so low lasers cant hit him at all, then he has those tilts and kill power, plus the stage control with mines, c4, and nades. So unlike Yoshi, Snake can almost completely take lasers out of the equation at long to mid range, and up close has options that trump Falco. THAT is why those 2 characters dont lose hard like Yoshi.

Also, I should point out, that even with D3's close up game literally out-ranging everything Falco has, it's still a -2 for D3.