The Official Waluigi Thread

[Tiamat]

But Kirby was top tier in the original Smash, which the trailor videos seem to indicate Brawl will be moving towards (not that there's any way to know for sure either way).

 

[digifreak642]

Well, Toad was the strongest in SMB2 so...

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

Imagine that. A light weight, small, powerful character. Making him the most powerful character (at least equally as powerful as Ganondorf) would make for some very interesting gameplay.

 

[Wrath`]

Toad=Were are my short arms at,i cant pick items up.
toad is cool,but not for brawl.



Walugi is the sport king.
Apering in MOST all mario sport and kart games.

 

[KingK.Rool]

Let's be honest here: Toad has much greater chances of getting into Brawl then Waluigi. He has more appearances, more major roles, and is playable in almost all the games that Waluigi is in anyway (Golf, Tennis, Kart, the recent Parties).

Short arms? Come on. Kirby's arms are stumps, and you see him picking up items, don't you? As for being replaced? Oh, my. First off, he is NOT being replaced by Toadsworth, he still appears in most every Mario game released. Secondly, at least he's important enough to be replaced.

I mean, for every argument that says that Toad has minor roles, he's an insignificant character, his own game was a long time ago, or other stuff like that, I say: Waluigi has important roles in the storyline? He's a significant character in the Mario universe? Has he even had his own game? Will he ever? No, no, no, and I most certainly hope not.

I wouldn't mind seeing Waluigi, myself, but not over Toad, and it's a bit ridiculous to even think that Waluigi is going to be in before the mushroom man.

 

[Red_Maniac]

No one said that Waluigi will get in first before Toad. I'm just reminding people the Toad hasn't really...done anything. Although he should still be in Brawl. I only said that because many people wan Toad and don't want Waluigi because he "has had no major role." And speaking of that, even though I have been asking the same question for the past three pages...

Why does a character need a major role in a game to be in Brawl?

 

[GenG]

Why does a character need a major role in a game to be in Brawl?

Because if there isn't any restrictions for the characters to be in Brawl, the roster would end having 100 ****ty characters from every franchise like Waluigi.

 

[Red_Maniac]

That didn't answer my question.

 

[Numa Dude]

Because this way we get Nintendo all stars and not stupid side characters.

 

[GenG]

Maybe you don't understand the answer because it just may be against Wauigi?

I repeat: If there weren't restrictions (ej. having major roles, legendary traits as I said before like having a career of success and loved classics filled with nostalgia) then ANY character could make it to Brawl, from Goomba to Koopa Troopas, Toad, Weegles, Birdo, Waluigi, Daisy, Shy Guy, and dozens more. And that is just the Mario franchise.

Why? Because there are limited spots, and having a goomba playable isn't just appealing. Goomba isn't a Nintendo superstar, neither Waluigi is. You can suddenly cut Waluigi from the Mario franchise, the world won't change.

 

[digifreak642]

Great post, King K. Rool.

I agree with all of your points.

 

[Red_Maniac]

You're talking like being a "legend" is the only way that characters will get in Brawl. You seem to be forgetting that most characters are added because they are popular choices. Japanese poll? Ring a bell?

Let's see some popular suggestions in this board:
Dark Samus
Daisy
Mach Rider
Tingle
Paper Mario
Deoxys
Diddy Kong
Bowser Jr. (Ugh.)
Any of the hunters from MP:H
Krystal
Paris (Well, that's just McFox...)

Do you consider ALL of these guys to be "legends?" Some might be in your opinion, but some of these characters have a huge chance of being in the game. Because people want them.

Most characters are suggested because they would bring something different to Brawl. They could make the gameplay more interesting and fun. That's what Smash is about. Nintendo character beating the crap out of each other for no reason. Would it matter if Waluigi was in Brawl? Would it make the entire game crap? In Melee, I didn't like some of the characters. But I still loved the game. I don't care if Waluigi doesn't make it to Brawl. It's just something that I would like to see.

The point is that Smash has the favorite characters of Nintendo fans. Nintendo isn't just like, "Hey! That guy had his own game! Let's just add him!" And one very interesting suggestion is Geno. I've never played Super Mario RPG (I'll try it out when it comes to the Virtual Console), but many people like Geno. I did some research, but I failed to see why he is a "legend." Yes, he had a major role in that game, but it was just ONE game. If being a "superstar" is the only way to get into Brawl, Geno might not have a big chance, but he probably does, since he is a popular choice. Same with Toad and possibly even Tingle.

...

Okay, maybe not Tingle.

 

[GenG]

From these list, Diddy and Mach Rider are legendary. Deoxys is a very particular Pokémon because he came from space, can shift and has is own movie, ala Mewtwo. Krystal has high chances because she is one of the latest additions to her franchise, but Wolf is indeed legendary. The rest don't have many chances, from my point of view of course. You think I'm being arrogant but I'm just making my conclusions from characters appeared in SSB64 and Melee.

Waluigi COULD be interesting, but there are dozens and dozens characters that could be! There are just many characters, even in the Mario franchise, with more priority than him (priority: career, fanbase, popular games, originlity). You say Waluigi COULD be original because the creators can be creative, and that's because he doesn't a definite moveset from his games, but being creative is just something reserved to some VIP characters like Peach, because she is important enough. Most characters picked have an already defined moveset by their games, while many classic ones may be left because their work required won't be worthy enough. Mach Rider is legendary, but I think the work he may get to be a fitable character won't be paid enough unlike Capt. Falcon, main character of an actual franchise. Pit was revived in all his glory with updated looks, because he is a marketeable character who is liked by everyone, and I predict he will be the most popular character in Brawl, and who knows? He even may get a new title, because the greek setup is very interesting. Got the idea?

Yes, sometimes we smashnerds forgot about the casual player who invites some guys to his place to play Mario Strikers and then puts Melee in. For these, Waluigi may be great, but then, there could be hundred of cases of characters from many franchises like Zelda, Pokémon or Fire Emblem, because the cast is very huge. So they have to pick the most popular ones EXPECTING they please the most people possible.

Then you have characters like Pit who doesn't are certainly known by the average player, but Smash revolve around these past characters who hasn't appeared in a game for more than ten years and the retro gamers (as well vintage fans) praise, and make the game more appealing with all the nostalgic feel.

Waluigi right now won't fit into the glamurous cast of Brawl. Geno, for example, is one of the most legendary characters withing Nintendo's history. I won't spoil anything for you, but his role, his looks, his attacks, the game he appeared and the one-shot appareance made him "one of a kind" character and one of the top requested in Japan and the US, even in the post-trailer interview at E3 the name of Geno popped from the crowd.

All of the restrictions aren't for pissing people, but if Waluigi's can be in, then many others can be in, and there is a limit for work characters, they aren't gods.
The other reason is that Smash Bros. is labeled as "Nintendo All-Stars!". Waluigi, as MANY others, needs to work their way up to this category yet. He isn't representing a franchise, a nostalgic title, or a particular genre, even his role in his franchise is very minor and prescindible... nothing that other Mario representatives couldn't have done , like Peach, who already has sport moves.

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

Yes, I agree whole heartedly GenG. That was pretty much, like THE perfect answer.

I have a Geno question. He was developed by a 3rd party company right? So... even though it was for a strictly Nintendo game starred by strictly Nintendo characters and was put in to be part of the strictly Nintendo Mario Universe, does that mean he'd have to take up a 3rd party character slot? And does he even still belong to Square? Because he was in Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga, which wasn't developed by Square in any way.

 

[Red_Maniac]

From these list, Diddy and Mach Rider are legendary. Deoxys is a very particular Pokémon because he came from space, can shift and has is own movie, ala Mewtwo. Krystal has high chances because she is one of the latest additions to her franchise, but Wolf is indeed legendary. The rest don't have many chances, from my point of view of course. You think I'm being arrogant but I'm just making my conclusions from characters appeared in SSB64 and Melee.

i do agree with Diddy and Mach Rider, and Deoxys would seem like a good replacement for Mewtwo. But I'm not sure about Krystal. Being one of the latest additions doesn't mean a lot, and I think either only she or Wolf should be in Brawl.

Waluigi COULD be interesting, but there are dozens and dozens characters that could be! There are just many characters, even in the Mario franchise, with more priority than him (priority: career, fanbase, popular games, originlity).

Can you name a few (besides Geno)?

Waluigi does have a fanbase, and I think that the only thing unoriginal about him is his name.

You say Waluigi COULD be original because the creators can be creative, and that's because he doesn't a definite moveset from his games, but being creative is just something reserved to some VIP characters like Peach, because she is important enough.

Well, there have been good movesets thought of in this thread. His moves could involve the sports games and spin-off or "Wrecking Crew" related attacks. Yes, Peach does use a tennis racket and golf club, but you can't expect every single attack of every character from Melee to be the same.

Most characters picked have an already defined moveset by their games, while many classic ones may be left because their work required won't be worthy enough. Mach Rider is legendary, but I think the work he may get to be a fitable character won't be paid enough unlike Capt. Falcon, main character of an actual franchise. Pit was revived in all his glory with updated looks, because he is a marketeable character who is liked by everyone, and I predict he will be the most popular character in Brawl, and who knows? He even may get a new title, because the greek setup is very interesting. Got the idea?

Eh...kinda. But I don't think that Pit will be THE MOST popular character in Brawl.

Yes, sometimes we smashnerds forgot about the casual player who invites some guys to his place to play Mario Strikers and then puts Melee in. For these, Waluigi may be great, but then, there could be hundred of cases of characters from many franchises like Zelda, Pokémon or Fire Emblem, because the cast is very huge. So they have to pick the most popular ones EXPECTING they please the most people possible.

So you're saying that Waluigi has pretty much the same chance as all of the other minor characters in the Mario, Zelda, Pokemon etc. series, like Toad, Midna, Koopa, and Lucario? Most of those characters have chances, and they all have support from many people.

Or are you saying that only the MAIN characters from franchises should be added? Many supporting and minor characters have been proven to be popular, and who knows? They may decide on the characters differently than in Melee.

Then you have characters like Pit who doesn't are certainly known by the average player, but Smash revolve around these past characters who hasn't appeared in a game for more than ten years and the retro gamers (as well vintage fans) praise, and make the game more appealing with all the nostalgic feel.

Yes, I admit, that is true.

Waluigi right now won't fit into the glamurous cast of Brawl. Geno, for example, is one of the most legendary characters withing Nintendo's history. I won't spoil anything for you, but his role, his looks, his attacks, the game he appeared and the one-shot appareance made him "one of a kind" character and one of the top requested in Japan and the US, even in the post-trailer interview at E3 the name of Geno popped from the crowd.

What exactly made Geno popular and unique? (I really need to play this game now...)

All of the restrictions aren't for pissing people, but if Waluigi's can be in, then many others can be in, and there is a limit for work characters, they aren't gods.

So Waluigi is just some minor character? Waluigi is very different from the other characters like Toad and Koopa. Waluigi has a personality, has had major roles in a few spin off games and has relationships with other characters. Also, this may not be a game, but in the Nintendo of Europe magazine, there are these stories about Wario and Waluigi, and their misadventures. MarioWiki article

Yes, it doesn't change anything, but I still find it entertaining... >_>

The other reason is that Smash Bros. is labeled as "Nintendo All-Stars!". Waluigi, as MANY others, needs to work their way up to this category yet. He isn't representing a franchise, a nostalgic title, or a particular genre, even his role in his franchise is very minor and prescindible... nothing that other Mario representatives couldn't have done , like Peach, who already has sport moves.

Remember what I said earlier about movesets changing? Waluigi could represent the spin-off games, and like someone mentioned earlier, there has already been a reference to them in the trailer. (Mario Kart stage)

And who do you think are "All-Stars" and should be in Brawl? Just wondering.

 

[cyberdemon]

Waluigi sucks. Really. He's not even that popular.
They wanted to make him just like Wario, but they failed miserably. He has no reason to be.
Besides, there's too many mario franchise characters. Give room for some more fracnhises, people.

 

[El HP]

toad was PLAYABLE for the beginning of Mario and Luigi.

Controlling a character 5 seconds is been playable?

Maybe he's talking about Mario & Luigi Partners in Time. Although it's pretty darn obvious once you think about it why they HAD to use Toadsworth in that game instead of Toad. Toad wouldn't have been able to fit the time travel has-a-younger-self Peach's fatherly caretaker role at all.

In Supertstar Saga toadsworth is the one who gives mario the suitcase and travels together with peach.

Well, Toad was the strongest in SMB2 so...

This was taken from Doki Doki Panic this is not a real toad skill.

Let's be honest here: Toad has much greater chances of getting into Brawl then Waluigi. He has more appearances, more major roles, and is playable in almost all the games that Waluigi is in anyway (Golf, Tennis, Kart, the recent Parties).

Again just because he is been longer than waluigi doesn't mean anything Yoshi got his own series and he first appeared as an item in Super Mario World and you say mayor roles in plural mention those major roles.

As for being replaced? Oh, my. First off, he is NOT being replaced by Toadsworth, he still appears in most every Mario game released. Secondly, at least he's important enough to be replaced.

Have you ever played Mario Sunshine or Mario&Luigi? toadsworth got toad's role as princess peach personal assistant, yeah toad appears as an NPC how important and the fact he was replaced shows how minor as a character toad is.

I mean, for every argument that says that Toad has minor roles, he's an insignificant character, his own game was a long time ago, or other stuff like that, I say: Waluigi has important roles in the storyline? He's a significant character in the Mario universe? Has he even had his own game? Will he ever? No, no, no, and I most certainly hope not.

Has toad ever been important in storylines? has toad ever had his own game? face it waluigi has a lot more chance to get a series of his own than toad will ever have.

I wouldn't mind seeing Waluigi, myself, but not over Toad, and it's a bit ridiculous to even think that Waluigi is going to be in before the mushroom man.

It is more ridiculous to think that a character with a role that consist of a line of dialog will get in "Sorry but the princess is in another castle".

Maybe you don't understand the answer because it just may be against Wauigi?

I repeat: If there weren't restrictions (ej. having major roles, legendary traits as I said before like having a career of success and loved classics filled with nostalgia) then ANY character could make it to Brawl, from Goomba to Koopa Troopas, Toad, Weegles, Birdo, Waluigi, Daisy, Shy Guy, and dozens more. And that is just the Mario franchise.

Why? Because there are limited spots, and having a goomba playable isn't just appealing. Goomba isn't a Nintendo superstar, neither Waluigi is. You can suddenly cut Waluigi from the Mario franchise, the world won't change.

First generic enemies will never be in Smash so that is not a good example.

Second legendary characters are already in Mario, Link, Samus, G&W ,Pikachu, not every character has to be legendary after all how many characters are legendary in melee? few of them.

Finally you can cut toad and what is the difference the world won't change and since when is toad a superstar?

 

[Tiamat]

Actually, Toad has had his own game if you want to be technical. He was the protagonist of Wario's Woods. Of course, one could also argue that's actually WARIO'S game, what with the title, but Toad is the protagonist that you play as, so... um... it depends on how you interpret it.

Of course, Wario's Woods is a puzzle game, so one could say it was filler, also depending on how you interpret it.

 

[digifreak642]

Yeah, Toadsworth was the assistant in those games.

But Toad is greater than that...

 

[Wrath`]

Waluigi was at leat in some games.
Look at roy(my main)he got in before his game was realesed.

 

[Tiamat]

Roy was in to market his upcoming game that he was the main star and protagonist of. So his situations are different. Roy shouldn't ever be compared to any other character because he clearly is an orange while everyone else is either an apple, a peach, or a banana.

 

[KingK.Rool]

Again just because he is been longer than waluigi doesn't mean anything Yoshi got his own series and he first appeared as an item in Super Mario World and you say mayor roles in plural mention those major roles.

My argument was not about how long the character has existed. You didn't address the fact that Toad is playable in almost all the same games as Waluigi. As for major roles, here are a few: Super Mario Bros 2 (playable); Wario's Woods (playable); and Super Mario RPG (not playable, but important). That, PLUS all his appearances in party and sports games, PLUS all his minor appearances. That's, way, way more than Waluigi has.

Have you ever played Mario Sunshine or Mario&Luigi? toadsworth got toad's role as princess peach personal assistant, yeah toad appears as an NPC how important and the fact he was replaced shows how minor as a character toad is.

Yes, Toadsworth is Peach's new personal assistant. The change may not be permanent for all we know, but anyway. Yes, Toad appears as an NPC. And what does Waluigi appear as? NOTHING. He doesn't appear AT ALL. He stays lurking in his party and sports games, where Toad is playable also, so that's hardly an argument.

Has toad ever been important in storylines? has toad ever had his own game? face it waluigi has a lot more chance to get a series of his own than toad will ever have.

Please. I JUST said that when you argue that Toad has small roles in the storyline, I say to you, does Waluigi? And the very next second, you turn around and say right back to me, "Does Toad have an important role in the storyline?" Not particularly, but it's much, much larger than Waluigi's. At least Toad is actually in the storyline.

Why would Waluigi get his own game? He's never been playable, or even made an appearance, outside of the sport and party games. He may have personality, but he lacks any possible uniqueness. I don't see how you can argue that yet another mustachioed Italian fellow wearing a bad hat is more original than the mushroom man himself.

It is more ridiculous to think that a character with a role that consist of a line of dialog will get in "Sorry but the princess is in another castle".

Putting aside the fact that that statement is blatantly wrong, I say to you now: at least Toad HAS a recognized line of dialogue. Aside from the fact that he says, "Waluigi!" whenever he wins in Mario Party, he doesn't say ANYTHING!

What is ridiculous is thinking that a character with a role that consists of no lines of dialodue and NO purpose whatsoever will get in.

Comments above.

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

OH SNAP!!! **** SON!!! KING K. ROOL JUST THREW IT DOWN WITH OLD SCHOOL BURN!!! hahaha... I'm so glad I subscribed to this thread.

 

[Red_Maniac]

Waluigi sucks. Really. He's not even that popular.

Then why is this thread still here?

They wanted to make him just like Wario, but they failed miserably. He has no reason to be.

Where did you get that idea?

Besides, there's too many mario franchise characters. Give room for some more fracnhises, people.

That's why they should take out clones like Dr. Mario. What, should they just keep Mario, Luigi, Peach and Bowser and not any other characters? They should add at least one Mario character.

Roy was in to market his upcoming game that he was the main star and protagonist of. So his situations are different. Roy shouldn't ever be compared to any other character because he clearly is an orange while everyone else is either an apple, a peach, or a banana.

Now we're comparing characters to FRUIT?

Yes, Toadsworth is Peach's new personal assistant. The change may not be permanent for all we know, but anyway. Yes, Toad appears as an NPC. And what does Waluigi appear as? NOTHING. He doesn't appear AT ALL. He stays lurking in his party and sports games, where Toad is playable also, so that's hardly an argument.

I really don't understand what you said. It's like you're saying that Waluigi is just a figment of our imaginations.

Please. I JUST said that when you argue that Toad has small roles in the storyline, I say to you, does Waluigi? And the very next second, you turn around and say right back to me, "Does Toad have an important role in the storyline?" Not particularly, but it's much, much larger than Waluigi's. At least Toad is actually in the storyline.

Why would Waluigi get his own game? He's never been playable, or even made an appearance, outside of the sport and party games. He may have personality, but he lacks any possible uniqueness. I don't see how you can argue that yet another mustachioed Italian fellow wearing a bad hat is more original than the mushroom man himself.

Is there some sort of rule that you must appear in those games to appear in Brawl?

"Waluigi's name is unoriginal."

Big whoop.

"Waluigi is just a tall and lanky version of Luigi."

Isn't Wario a short and fat version of Mario?

And is there any real storyline? Donkey Kong: Pauline is kidnapped and Mario has to save her. Super Mario Bros.: Peach is kidnapped and Mario has to save her. SMB2: Just Doki Doki Panic with Mario characters. SML: Daisy is kidnapped and Mario has to save her. SM64, Sunshine, NSMB, SMG, most of the Mario games are the same. There are some games like Mario Bros. or SMB3 or SML2, but there isn't one major storyline. Toad hasn't really done anything. The spin-off games may not be part of the main "storyline," but they are still part of the Mario series.

Putting aside the fact that that statement is blatantly wrong, I say to you now: at least Toad HAS a recognized line of dialogue. Aside from the fact that he says, "Waluigi!" whenever he wins in Mario Party, he doesn't say ANYTHING!

What is ridiculous is thinking that a character with a role that consists of no lines of dialodue and NO purpose whatsoever will get in.

You think that that's the only thing that he ever says? So what, you've never used Waluigi or just never played a game with him at all?

How will dialouge get you in the game? Does Link speak all the time? Samus? MARIO? I mean, even in "Super Paper Mario," there's TONS of dialouge, and all Mario says is "Ok!"

 

[El HP]

My argument was not about how long the character has existed. You didn't address the fact that Toad is playable in almost all the same games as Waluigi. As for major roles, here are a few: Super Mario Bros 2 (playable); Wario's Woods (playable); and Super Mario RPG (not playable, but important). That, PLUS all his appearances in party and sports games, PLUS all his minor appearances. That's, way, way more than Waluigi has.

Wario's Woods you say just because he was the cursor to move the blocks doesn't mean he is the protagonist then according to you the fairy in Mario Vs Wario is the main character hell toad doesn't even appear in the title screen and how is toad an important character in Mario RPG? he is just an NPC as for SMB2 I already mentioned the reason why Toad appeared.

Just one example to show you how unimportant toad is in Mario Strikers toad is a team partner while Waluigi is a captain.

Yes, Toadsworth is Peach's new personal assistant. The change may not be permanent for all we know, but anyway. Yes, Toad appears as an NPC. And what does Waluigi appear as? NOTHING. He doesn't appear AT ALL. He stays lurking in his party and sports games, where Toad is playable also, so that's hardly an argument.

Yeah because an NPC is such an important part of the game not to mention he is one of the most boring and useless NPCs ever there are way better NPCs than him seriously he is either crying like a baby or running like the coward he is every time you find him at least Waluigi gets a bigger role in the spin-offs as shown in Power Tennis, MP3, DDR etc.

Please. I JUST said that when you argue that Toad has small roles in the storyline, I say to you, does Waluigi? And the very next second, you turn around and say right back to me, "Does Toad have an important role in the storyline?" Not particularly, but it's much, much larger than Waluigi's. At least Toad is actually in the storyline.

Yeah a great role as a save point Luigi's Mansion style.

Why would Waluigi get his own game? He's never been playable, or even made an appearance, outside of the sport and party games. He may have personality, but he lacks any possible uniqueness. I don't see how you can argue that yet another mustachioed Italian fellow wearing a bad hat is more original than the mushroom man himself.

Has a character been playable before getting a series of his/her own? I mean I don't remember using Wario before Wario Land, I didn't mention originality.

That is the good thing about Waluigi since he has never appeared outside spin-offs he can get many unique abilities just like Wario did.

Putting aside the fact that that statement is blatantly wrong, I say to you now: at least Toad HAS a recognized line of dialogue. Aside from the fact that he says, "Waluigi!" whenever he wins in Mario Party, he doesn't say ANYTHING!

What is ridiculous is thinking that a character with a role that consists of no lines of dialodue and NO purpose whatsoever will get in.

Well Waluigi has the most bad *** and controversial taunt in Nintendo's history the DX pose.

And what is Toad purpose besides been an NPC? at least Waluigi is getting bigger roles in the spin-offs an identity of his own while toad falls deeper in the shadows as every new Mario game comes.

Face it Waluigi is here to stay.

 

[KingK.Rool]

I really don't understand what you said. It's like you're saying that Waluigi is just a figment of our imaginations.

Fair enough. I'm trying to say that Waluigi is essentially a filler character, with no specific role or purpose, who could be replaced even more easily than Toad. Waluigi exists, all right, but he's not important.

Is there some sort of rule that you must appear in those games to appear in Brawl?

"Waluigi's name is unoriginal."

Big whoop.

"Waluigi is just a tall and lanky version of Luigi."

Isn't Wario a short and fat version of Mario?

Hey. I didn't use either of those points in my argument; they, as you pointed out, are both terrible. Name doesn't really matter, and I don't believe Waluigi is a taller version of Luigi at all, he has quite a different personality.

And is there any real storyline? Donkey Kong: Pauline is kidnapped and Mario has to save her. Super Mario Bros.: Peach is kidnapped and Mario has to save her. SMB2: Just Doki Doki Panic with Mario characters. SML: Daisy is kidnapped and Mario has to save her. SM64, Sunshine, NSMB, SMG, most of the Mario games are the same. There are some games like Mario Bros. or SMB3 or SML2, but there isn't one major storyline. Toad hasn't really done anything. The spin-off games may not be part of the main "storyline," but they are still part of the Mario series.

This is actually a decent point. There is no one constant storyline, if you want to put it that way. However, Toad has indeed done several things; just look at SMB2. IN any case, his list of accomplishments is certainly longer than Waluigi's.

You think that that's the only thing that he ever says? So what, you've never used Waluigi or just never played a game with him at all?

How will dialouge get you in the game? Does Link speak all the time? Samus? MARIO? I mean, even in "Super Paper Mario," there's TONS of dialouge, and all Mario says is "Ok!"

It's not really the only thing, but you have to admit, he doesn't have the largest vocabulary. More to the point, no I don't think dialogue matters at all. I was only making a point to El HP, who seems to think that Toad's dialogue has an effect on his chances in Brawl.

Anyway, I feel this debate is getting a bit off the topic. The only thing that I'm here to prove is that Toad has a better chance at getting in Brawl than Waluigi. I'm not trying to argue whether Waluigi has a chance, because I believe he does.

But still, I ask you, what are the factors that get a character into Brawl? (not a complete list)

1) Popularity.
2) Importance in their respective series (Zelda, Young Link, Falco, Wario)
3) The retro factor (Game and Watch, Ice Climbers, Pit)
4) Promotion for a series (Marth, Roy, maybe even Snake)
5) Easy Clone (Pichu, Dr. Mario)

I can't comment on neither Waluigi's nor Toad's popularity, because that would just be guesswork and speculation. Nor are they retro characters, and the Mario franchise couldn't possibly need any promotion. And neither of them are easy clones. All that's left is importance in the series, and I just don't see how Waluigi beats Toad in that criteria.

The bottom line of my argument is that Toad has simply done MORE than Waluigi. Give me some of Waluigi's accomplishments, that would make him a higher priority than Toad, then I'll concede your point. The only argument I've seen thus far is that he'd represent the Mario Party and sports games, which is all very well and good, but it can be just as easily represented by stages and items, while leaving that coveted Mario character slot to someone with a more impressive resume.

 

[Red_Maniac]

Anyway, I feel this debate is getting a bit off the topic. The only thing that I'm here to prove is that Toad has a better chance at getting in Brawl than Waluigi. I'm not trying to argue whether Waluigi has a chance, because I believe he does.

I never said that Toad has a less chance. In fact, I believe that he DOES have a better chance than Waluigi.

But still, I ask you, what are the factors that get a character into Brawl? (not a complete list)

That's what I've been asking...

1) Popularity.

Said that. Waluigi isn't as popular as other characters, but still has support.

2) Importance in their respective series (Zelda, Young Link, Falco, Wario)

Well, of course Y. Link, Zelda and Wario are important. They have their own series. But there are exceptions like the Pokemon. There really is no story except to beat the Gym Leaders, Elite Four and to "Catch 'Em All." Pikachu, Pichu, Jigglypuff and Mewtwo are just the most recognizable ones.

3) The retro factor (Game and Watch, Ice Climbers, Pit)

True, but unfortunately, there are people (especially younger gamers) who won't know most of them.

4) Promotion for a series (Marth, Roy, maybe even Snake)

Yup.

5) Easy Clone (Pichu, Dr. Mario)

I doubt that they'll be any clones in Brawl.

I can't comment on neither Waluigi's nor Toad's popularity, because that would just be guesswork and speculation. Nor are they retro characters, and the Mario franchise couldn't possibly need any promotion. And neither of them are easy clones.

True.

All that's left is importance in the series, and I just don't see how Waluigi beats Toad in that criteria.

No one said that he did.

The bottom line of my argument is that Toad has simply done MORE than Waluigi. Give me some of Waluigi's accomplishments, that would make him a higher priority than Toad, then I'll concede your point.

First, let's look at Toad's:
• Playable in SMB2 and Wario's Woods
• Gives advice and items to Mario and friends

Um...that's all I can think of now. There's probably more.

Waluigi's accomplishments in the spin-off games:
• Stole Mischief Star Stamp in MP3
• Stole Music Keys to "hypnotize the world"

...

Waluigi hasn't had as many accomplishments as Toad, but what has other chracters accomplished? Most characters HAVE to appear, because they're the main characters, and what about other popular choices? Koopa Troopa? They just walk around until Mario or Luigi or ehoever jumps on them. What about Daisy? Petey Piranha? Birdo? What about characters in other franchises like Dark Samus? ROB? Meowth? Dixie Kong? Dr. Wright?

The only argument I've seen thus far is that he'd represent the Mario Party and sports games, which is all very well and good, but it can be just as easily represented by stages and items, while leaving that coveted Mario character slot to someone with a more impressive resume.

So what, only one Mario character gets in? In my opinion, there should be two or possibly three, and they should take Dr. Mario out. Also, even though Waluigi has yet to appear in a Wario game (although one person mentioned that a character with a resemblence to Waluigi was in "Smooth Moves") he is still related to Wario, and he may be a Wario character. Unlikely, but possible if Waluigi does make it to Brawl.

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

Has anyone else noticed that neither party (Pro-Waluigi, Anti-Waluigi) has given any answer that the opposing party wants to hear? I just think it's funny and kind of annoying to read "That's not what I'm saying/asking" over and over.

Once again... I'm so glad I subscribed to this thread.

 

[KingK.Rool]

Rather than answer everything you said, Red_Maniac, because I think we're at somewhat of an agreement, I'm just going to pick out a few bits and pieces. First off, I assumed that you, like some Waluigi supporters I've seen, believed him to be more likely than Toad. If that's not the case, I really don't have any more points to make.

I also think that there should be a few new Mario characters, but I think many people would be outraged to see Waluigi before Geno. And Toad and Bowser Jr. are also competing for those slots.

In any case, I think we can now agree that Waluigi does have a shot at getting in, but Toad is a bit more likely.

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

IMO the most likely to get in is Geno. He's the most desired of the bunch and he's the most original character in the list. The character with the second best chance to get in would be Toad, he's also very original but he's Peach's human-shield so they would have to change her move before considering putting him in. The third most likely character is Bowser Jr., Bowser and Bowser Jr. are nothing alike, Bowser is a power hungry tyrant and Bowser Jr. is a keniving little thief, he could be so original. The problem with Waluigi is he's just another plumber. He could either be that or just a biker Wario spin-off. The thing about Waluigi is no matter what he is in Brawl, he will have to be closely related to some other Mario character because he has nothing to his own name. Mario is the strong-headed, strong-armed hero. Luigi is the brother trying to escape his brother's shadow and make a name for himself. Wario is the evil comic relief. Waluigi is ??? All I'm saying is he needs ONE GAME before he makes it into Brawl. Otherwise he really doesn't have a purpose.

 

[Tiamat]

Now we're comparing characters to FRUIT?"

Fruit is good for you, dammit.

At any rate, if you're not joking, I guess the phrase, "You shouldn't compare apples and oranges" was completely lost on you. I'm going to assume you're joking though (sometimes these things are hard to tell through text)


Getting to another topic, I'm almost positive Peach's moveset for Brawl will be COMPLETELY revamped, and that includes the likely removal of Toad from her repertoire. The reasoning is simple, really.

Super Princess Peach.

They're going to have to get rid of some of her Melee moves to make room for the bajillion new moves she got in that game, after all. And they will. Because it'd be plain WRONG to ignore the game that PRINCESS PEACH WAS THE STAR OF when designing Peach for Brawl.

 

[GenG]

I don't play Peach, but removing her turnips or her air moves will break up her game. Toad should be changed though, and the Peach Bomb is a surrealistic move that I don't know why was put there in the first place.

 

[Tiamat]

I don't think Peach's air moves will be removed. Super Princess Peach has the ability to float and uses an umbrella just like Melee Peach (and in fact both are based off of floaty Peach in Super Mario Bros. 2, I'm sure).

The turnips on the other hand might not make it ("might").

I fully expect the hip move and Toad to be gone, though. Since the umbrella special will stay (albeit be altered to use Perry), they gotta get rid of the others if they want to make room for her large SPP repertoire.

This is of course assuming characters will only have 4 B moves. They might get more. After al, they used to only have 3 in the original Smash before Melee upped it to 4.

 

[Wrath`]

Waluigi is warios brother.
mario is luigi brother.
so if waluigi was in the game Bros vs Bros

 

[digifreak642]

Since you keep using the Waluigi stealing the mischeif stamp thing...

Toad was also the HOST of Mario Party 1 and 2.

But I think most of us agree that Toad>Waluigi by now.

 

[Numa Dude]

I don't agree, I still think it's Bowser jr. > Waluigi > Toad. If someone can give me facts on why Toad has such a high chance I might change my mind but until then this is what I think the characters chances are.

 

[digifreak642]

Toad is the last remaining character from the Big 8 that hasn't been added to Brawl. This group (Mario, Luigi, Yoshi, DK, Bowser, Peach, Wario, and Toad) was considered to be the most popular Mario characters.

Toad has had big roles in the following games: SMB2, Wario's Woods, Mario Party 1 & 2.

Toad has had minor roles in the following games: SMRPG, Super Mario 64, Super Mario Bros.... and just about every Mario game.

Toad has been in every Mario Kart, including the arcade version.



Now let's look at Waluigi.

Waluigi is a filler character that was created to be Waluigi's partner/Luigi's enemy.

Waluigi has ONLY been in spin-off games, and Toad has been playable in almost every game that Waluigi has been.

Waluigi has NO roles in canon games.

Wario has just been added to Brawl, and he doesn't need another rep.

Mario, Nintendo's flagship series, could do with another rep.


Okay! Here is why Toad>Bowser Jr.

Bowser Jr. has been in only a few games (Sunshine and NSMB being the main ones).

He is the sidekick of the bad guy. Pretty lame.

Many fans hate the koopa because he replaced Bowser's original sons.

Bowser Jr. wasn't in Mario Kart DS, while he very well could have been.

Toad is more recognized than Bowser Jr.






Anyways, imo it seems that Toad>Bowser Jr.>Waluigi and Toad>Geno>Waluigi

Not quite sure who wins between Geno and Jr...

 

[Numa Dude]

Toad is the last remaining character from the Big 8 that hasn't been added to Brawl. This group (Mario, Luigi, Yoshi, DK, Bowser, Peach, Wario, and Toad) was considered to be the most popular Mario characters.

Toad has had big roles in the following games: SMB2, Wario's Woods, Mario Party 1 & 2.

Toad has had minor roles in the following games: SMRPG, Super Mario 64, Super Mario Bros.... and just about every Mario game.

Toad has been in every Mario Kart, including the arcade version.



Now let's look at Waluigi.

Waluigi is a filler character that was created to be Waluigi's partner/Luigi's enemy.

Waluigi has ONLY been in spin-off games, and Toad has been playable in almost every game that Waluigi has been.

Waluigi has NO roles in canon games.

Wario has just been added to Brawl, and he doesn't need another rep.

Mario, Nintendo's flagship series, could do with another rep.

I've been convinced Toad > Waluigi but I disagree about Toad > Bowser jr.


Okay! Here is why Toad>Bowser Jr.

Bowser Jr. has been in only a few games (Sunshine and NSMB being the main ones).
Yes but he is starting to become a more important character to the series even being the main villain in two.

He is the sidekick of the bad guy. Pretty lame.
In sunshine and new super mario bros. Bowser is nothing more than a bodyguard character there to make sure his son doesn't get hurt I think bowser is more of the side kick in those two games.

Many fans hate the koopa because he replaced Bowser's original sons.
There still there they just haven't been in any games for a long time. They where in a part of sunshine where it shows you a bunch of old mario games and mario was fighting one of them in it so they aren't forgotten or replaced.

Bowser Jr. wasn't in Mario Kart DS, while he very well could have been.
And?

Toad is more recognized than Bowser Jr.
As a generic race yes but not as a singular character.






Anyways, imo it seems that Toad>Bowser Jr.>Waluigi and Toad>Geno>Waluigi

Not quite sure who wins between Geno and Jr...

Geno is third party it won't happen even if he is cool and popular.

My comments above in red.

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

I'm going to counter your comments in individual sentences because I can't quote you Numa Dude.

!) Keyword= STARTING to become popular. Toad was popular before popular was cool.

!) If you think about it, Bowser could have just made Bowser Jr. the "goffer" in those games: "Goffer the shine sprites!" "Goffer Princess Peach". Then when you get far enough into the workings of Bowser's devious plan, he is there to show you who's really the boss. Bowser never really was a "hands-on" type of guy since Super Mario World.

!) When I think of Toad, I think of THE Toad first, and the whole race of Mushroom People second. I think I'm safe to say that's how most people's minds work.

!) I don't think Geno is third party. He may have been developed by Square but I'm pretty sure he was either given to Nintendo or bought by them. Also, he was in Mario and Luigi: Super Star Saga, a game with no ties to Square at all. You can't just take things that don't belong to you, that's called "copyright infringement".

 

[Numa Dude]

I'm going to counter your comments in individual sentences because I can't quote you Numa Dude.

!) Keyword= STARTING to become popular. Toad was popular before popular was cool.
Keyword= WAS popular he's not as popular or important to the series as he used to be.

!) If you think about it, Bowser could have just made Bowser Jr. the "goffer" in those games: "Goffer the shine sprites!" "Goffer Princess Peach". Then when you get far enough into the workings of Bowser's devious plan, he is there to show you who's really the boss. Bowser never really was a "hands-on" type of guy since Super Mario World.
Bowser told jr. Peach was his mom that was it jr. did all the evil stuff on his own.

!) When I think of Toad, I think of THE Toad first, and the whole race of Mushroom People second. I think I'm safe to say that's how most people's minds work.
Not everyone thinks like that anymore.

!) I don't think Geno is third party. He may have been developed by Square but I'm pretty sure he was either given to Nintendo or bought by them. Also, he was in Mario and Luigi: Super Star Saga, a game with no ties to Square at all. You can't just take things that don't belong to you, that's called "copyright infringement".Geno is owned by square and Nintendo asked square if they could use him and they said yes.

My comments above in red.