The Official South Carolina Thread

[_Keno_]

Oh really? So you're saying that the smartest player can use fox and be set to win tournaments off the bat?

ummmmm, no. I never remotely implied that. Are you implying that that is possible in brawl?

Understand that i'm saying smarts is necessary at a certain point, however not as quickly as it's necessary in Brawl.

Smarts is necessary at every point in both games. The smarter person (who understands the physics of the game, has knowledge of moves and their hitboxes, basic tech skill, etc) will probably win at any level of play in both games.

 

[Purple]

Smarts is necessary at every point in both games. The smarter person (who understands the physics of the game, has knowledge of moves and their hitboxes, basic tech skill, etc) will probably win at any level of play in both games.

Knowing how the game works isn't part of the 'smarts' category. That's part of the technical category. Anything that relates to the game in a sense is technical. Smarts, is being able to outsmart your opponent via mind, not via game.

For example, L Cancelling. If one person knows how to L Cancel and the other doesn't. While the player who doesn't know how to L cancel might be smarter, the person who knows how to l cancel get get away with more pressure, because the lag on his moves are decreased dramatically, while the opponent doesn't have that advantage

Also, you said here.

I was going to post about how having smarts is much more important than tech skill in melee.

You're implying, that knowing what your opponent is going to do, is much more important than tech skill. So, in the situation (jiggs vs fox) you're smarter than your opponent and you know that your opponent will jump in and n-air, so you'll shield it and grab him for a u-throw rest (in brawl, this would be perfectly logical, considering you can powershield and all moves have lag to an extent)? Well, the fox l-cancel and shines on your shield, you just took damage thinking you would get the grab off. There are things that you technically speaking don't understand at certain points, therefore in the beginning of play, being technical is more important than being smart, then when things get even, being smart becomes more important.

 

[_Keno_]

I'm not including those as "smarts," I'm saying that those basics are needed in order for a person to play. After that, the smarter person will win.

As for smarts being more important, if you're going to pit people who have never played competitively vs competitive players in your examples, than the same scenario as your "fox vs jiggs" works in brawl. If a smart peach player knows that fairing somebody's shield is safe, but then fairs the person only to get powershield -> punished, would he not also take damage due to lack of technical knowledge?

And are you trying to argue that melee requires no smarts at extremely lower levels of play? If I picked MK against a smart and technical lower level player and spammed tornado, it would require no smarts and yet I would likely win.

My posts are centered around mid-high levels of play, as those are the only levels that actually matter in a competitive game. Just saying.

 

[Purple]

This conversation's going no where, I'm done.

 

[YOSHIDO]

hmm I read you post Dark Pappy. And I agree with some of your points on brawl vs melee. and my heart went out when I heard Of Reflex again. As for me I do belive brawl has a more balanced roster of characters. This point was the only thing i didn't like about melee. In Guilty Gear, Blazeblue and maybe even KOF. It doesnt matter what character you pick up, If you know the match up and get really good then your work will show.

I know you were talking mostly of smarts. But in melee I like to consider overall skill, Techs, Mindset, spacing everything. For some characters like bowser, and yoshi. It is near impossible to beat someone on the same skill lv as them when peeps use higher tier characters. The higher tiers just have so much more options and more killing efficient moves. This is where we have to pick up secondaries. After that its pretty even and fun lucky going. I like melee because of the fast pace and tech skill required. I love the lv the mind plays in as well. I think thats why its still played today, because the metagame keeps evolving. An thats why you still hear of people playing with low tiers, beacuse we always want to improve. To find new strats.

I gues what turned me off of brawl orginally besides the tripping was the knockback. True you shouldn't be able to use the same move over and over with it still being effective. But I don't agree with making some characters smash attacks weak as heck from the start. At 120 to 150 you should be dieing from all new smashes unless they amazingly DI or something. I love the new addition in air games but then again, I hate how the make almost all recoveries automatically go for the ledge. Again i personally like having multiple options. They also lowered the lv of manipulation with eggs. And did not give squirtle Bubble beam. I feel the game allows for alot of stuff to be stupid safe. And I think that comes from people not having an abundance of answers. But yeah I don't think brawl is completely crap. Its just not melee 2.0. An we'll have to wait for what the next gen i guess to what happens with the series

 

[ETWIST51294]

Melee's high tier balnce is extremly good, Yoshido, compared to other games, and in competitive play high tiers are the main focus since low tiers can't do much. Brawl also has a really, really balanced hiigh tier but MK is overrated so they make it seem like it's not.

Come back Roxy. I'm done arguing.

 

[Black Mantis]

I've played Reflex in teams before and he *****!!!

 

[Black Mantis]

Also, sorry for the dp but the balance issues in brawl are a bit overhyped. I know someone who uses Lucas (a character with powerful but laggy moves and can be grabbed forever by marth, snake, charizard, and donkey kong) and he's currently on the north carolina pr. I still think it boils down to how smart you are (watch Ally play as falcon). This ain't Marvel vs Capcom 2 where if you have Sentinel and you're opponent picks anyone who isn't Cyclops, Cable, Storm, or Magneto then its instant win (I actually cheesed some poor scrub out with Sentinel once and he quit).

 

[Juno McGrath]

The nort carolina brawl PR's are a joke.

 

[Black Mantis]

The nort carolina brawl PR's are a joke.

Then again this is kinda true. Also, Snap do you still play Wario (i need help on that match-up)?

 

[Juno McGrath]

I dont play brawl anymore but ill gladly help you with the matchup.

 

[stingers]

wow 313 i play wario too and you ask that guy? wow

 

[Juno McGrath]

hes asking me because my wario is better.

 

[stingers]

you are the cutest kid

 

[Juno McGrath]

i wish, now your just trolling.

 

[YOSHIDO]

i said Melee was pretty balanced after low tiers. Its just melee's roster isn't as balanced as GGAC. But where talking smash only here so I shouldn't bring in other fighters. some people perfer powerstone 2 over brawl.

 

[ETWIST51294]

You can talk about other fighters, GG and BB are really balanced tho, so is 3S (except for Chun).

 

[YOSHIDO]

Yeah man, Yo there was the crazy zappa runnign through sbo's this year

 

[Purple]

I just don't feel like beating people over the head about something that generally isn't going to be understood, since we come from two different backgrounds. I'm not leaving the thread.

 

[Black Mantis]

Well Snap I don't want ask any specific questions on ROB vs. Wario match-up, but what things should I do and not do?

 

[Juno McGrath]

and long as your glide tossing a lot and downsmashing a lot you cant go wrong. ill play you next time i see you and tell you whats going on.

 

[stingers]

downsmashing?

 

[Juno McGrath]

downsmash beats warios dair most of the time, if not all of the time, if you time your downsmash out of shield right wario cant come in with dair.

 

[stingers]

i cant see it working if wario comes in straight vertically and just tips you with the dair because rob is so tall because wario should always be going for a shieldpoke against rob anyway

but maybe

 

[Juno McGrath]

its how stockfield played against me last sos.

and its how kales rob plays against me.

but idk man. i always said your the best rob in the nation.

 

[stingers]

i mean if you try and fall and then dair instead of falling with a dair and just getting that tip of his head and then moving out of range of the dsmash...because you can definitely dair robs head and move out of dsmash range...then yeah you could probably punish with dsmash

 

[Juno McGrath]

wario goes into auto fast fall, even though hes moving hes constantly falling, he will eventually get into dsmash range.

 

[stingers]

no wario wont >.>

http://img.imgcake.com/part1PNGvy.png

you aim for the very tip of robs head with the very tip of your dair

if it pokes then yay you get a hit if he shields it anyway then you keep falling to the right

and you wont get hit

 

[Black Mantis]

Snap is still the best Wario I've ever seen

 

[Juno McGrath]

Snap is still the best Wario I've ever seen.

****. this just made my week.

 

[~Twitch~]

snap has the best peach i've ever seen in NC.

 

[stingers]

i agree actually

 

[~Twitch~]

you're so emo, stingers.

 

[Black Mantis]

snap has the best peach and Wario i've ever seen in NC.

there ya go

 

[~Twitch~]

i've never seen his wario so...sure.

 

[Juno McGrath]

you guys havent seen the general.

 

[Dr Peepee]

He's not living in NC though.

Moving back to VA in like August.

 

[stingers]

i dont need to.

 

[~Twitch~]

how come no one moves TO NC during the summer. everyone moves away.

 

[Juno McGrath]

i think stingers is a lot smarter than me, and the general has some kind of tech skill ive only seen in my dreams.

if we could all compile semen in the same vile and impregnate a girl NC would be ****ed