The Official SBR Brawl Tier List v1.0

[8AngeL8]

I expect Ganon to move up, Yoshi to move up, and the earthbound boys to move up. I think Wolf will go down, for sure.

 

[greenflame88]

I'm awake!

Honestly, why did the teir change so much? Besides New characters, was it that the speed of the game slowed or moves or what? What do you think?

XD

 

[8AngeL8]

Brawl is just such a different game from Melee. In Melee, the faster character usually won. Not always, but that was a general trend.

Brawl has such ridiculous defensive options that its the campy, hard to punish characters who win. Being fast doesn't mean anything without unpunishable moves (Case in point, Captain Falcon is terrible, while someone as slow as D3 is awesome).

 

[Mooch]

I expect Ganon to move up, Yoshi to move up, and the earthbound boys to move up. I think Wolf will go down, for sure.

Ganon may move up slightly, 3 spots at best. The only thing he has going for him is his power and his tech chase. Link will move up more than him if anyone moves up.

 

[SonicBoom2]

Faster characters also need spacing drastically, which can be frusterating.

Do you think Jiggs will move up? I only just recently picked her up and I'm still wondering on some things about her/him.

 

[Blackbelt]

Ganon may move up slightly, 3 spots at best. The only thing he has going for him is his power and his tech chase. Link will move up more than him if anyone moves up.

Link?



Sorry, but I really gotta question Link's ability to move up the tier list.

 

[8AngeL8]

Link's got an okay moveset while on stage. Boomerang disrupts spacing well, and the bombs and arrows can stop some approaches. He's slow for sure, but his tilts have nice range.

Of course, he dies ridiculously easily due to his fast fall and god-awful recovery. I don't think this puts him at second worst, though. I wouldn't put him out of low tier, but not that bad.

 

[Mooch]

Jiggs aerial game is good and her up smash is surprisingly powerful and quick. Wouldn't be surprised if we saw her middle tier at some point

 

[greenflame88]

These are just my opinions so please don't act like I'm stupid =]

Top
Meta Knight - I think he's overrated...
Snake - This surprised me, just cause I suck with him though...
King Dedede - Haha! This one surprised me too! Good for him though! Represent those heavy weights!
Mr. Game & Watch - This made me happy! His moves got better, but IMO I think Nintendo decided to make his moves better/easier before smashers could complain about him still being in the game...
Falco - He is my top main along with Zelda in melee... He desappiointed me in this game...
R.O.B. - I personally do not like R.O.B. and I don't know why he was put in the game, but good for him!

High
Marth - Sigh... He only has to go up one more before he's top again...
Wario - Haha! This is funny too! I suck as Wario...
Lucario - I think Lucario is awkward to use. IMO, his moves are good but slow/awlward... I dunno...
Donkey Kong - :O Really? Seriously? I know he got better, but I still suck as him!
Diddy - Eh... I have no feeling about Diddy...
Pikachu - I expected him to be in the middle so he's fine here I guess...
Ice Climbers - I really like the Ice Climbers so this makes me happy, hopefully they'll move up!
Kirby - It's good to see Kirby moving back up the teir list since melee!
Pit - Pit was the first character I used in Brawl and I liked him, but I was owned all the time so I switched... Maybe I just need practice with him?
Wolf - I like Wolf more than Fox so this is good.

Middle
Toon Link - Toon Link's moves are easy and pretty ok in speed and power, so he's a great balanced character.
Olimar - I like Olimar's A attacks but I hate his B attacks...
Fox - I've never liked Fox so I son;t care where he goes...
Zelda - Zelda was one of my mains in melee. I hope she goes up since her moves got better.
Zero Suit Samus - I like Zero Suit Samus, but I suck as her...
Bowser - Bowser is a beast in Brawl compared to his melee counterpart!
Luigi - Has Luigi ever been that high? I think he's better than some of these above him...
Peach - Peach is my second main in Brawl. I hope she goes up since her moves just got better and faster in going from melee to brawl...
Ike - Ike is my number 3, he better go up and I think he will with all of the Ike users Ive seen...
Sheik - Sheik just got worse so there...

Low
Lucas - Lucas is my main! One day he will move up at least one spot to Middle! I hope!
Ness - I was never good with Ness... This year is no different... I expected him to be lower...
Mario - I don't like Mario either...
Pokémon Trainer - I really like using PKMN Trainer... It's understandable why he's low though...
Samus - I think Samus will go up maybe like 3-5 spots... She's just not as good as in Melee IMO...
Yoshi - I'm pretty sure Yoshi will move up...
Sonic - I think he's cheap!
Jigglypuff - Aw... I wish she was higher... I think she will get higher but not as high as her melee counterpart...
Ganondorf - Some of his moves got better, some didnt... and he is SO SLOW!!!
Link - Link is getting heavier and heavier as new games come out... It will be hard for him to move up...
Captain Falcon - This is surprising, but not at the same time...

These are just my opinions! How do the rest of you feel?

 

[Mooch]

Meta Knight - I think he's overrated...

Why exactly? Just curious. I love hearing people's reasoning for this.

 

[greenflame88]

I just think his moves are cheaper and easier to execute... The B, Bu, Bd, B<or> and his a's are just easy and cheap too. I mean I like him as a character and glad he's in brawl, just overrated... too much credit... but just MY OPINION!

XD

 

[Justblaze647]

Pokémon Trainer - I really like using PKMN Trainer... It's understandable why he's low though...

What exactly makes you say that..?

 

[greenflame88]

It's hard, IMO, to pull off three different playing styles, which you have to adjust to when using him. There are other characters that are easier to use... I mean he's not in the low teir... Each of the pokemon have their own great styles and moves...

 

[Mooch]

I just think his moves are cheaper and easier to execute... The B, Bu, Bd, B<or> and his a's are just easy and cheap too. I mean I like him as a character and glad he's in brawl, just overrated... too much credit... but just MY OPINION!

XD

Overrated means that a character is not as good as people say he is. You, on the other hand, are calling him overrated because he is as good as people say he is.

 

[Justblaze647]

It's hard, IMO, to pull off three different playing styles, which you have to adjust to when using him. There are other characters that are easier to use... I mean he's not in the low teir... Each of the pokemon have their own great styles and moves...

IMO, a character's "difficulty" shouldn't reflect their potential... look at the ICs.

 

[Deoxys]

Overrated means that a character is not as good as people say he is. You, on the other hand, are calling him overrated because he is as good as people say he is.

People say he has no even matchups. Thus, he is overrated.

 

[greenflame88]

Well, I don't think he's that good... lol
All are these views are just my opinion and based off my experience... Like with the IC's... I am rather good with them, but I'm not that good with PKMN Trainer... Sorry

 

[Mooch]

People say he has no even matchups. Thus, he is overrated.

I guess that would be true depending on if you believe he has even match ups or not lol.

 

[Barge]

Since everyone else is doing it.


Top
Meta Knight - No surprise there
Snake - None there either
King Dedede - I think this placement goes a little un-justified, I expect him to be lowered a few.
Mr. Game & Watch - I can see why he's this high up, easy to use, high priority, good recovery.
Falco - I believe he should be below rob, his recovery is pretty bad, but other then that....
R.O.B. - Should move higher up, he has god like recovery and almost all of his moves are kill moves

High
Marth - Should be a bit higher, his aerials are crazy, his recovery is decent, he can string a lot of attacks.
Wario - I've never really fought a good wario, wouldn't really know. But I can see why he would be high.
Lucario - Very spammable, and good range/kill moves, though probably will move down a few.
Donkey Kong - I agree with this placement, strong smashes, crazy aerials, good B moves
Diddy - Naners
Pikachu - Qac, recovery, insane field control with thunder, good kill moves
Ice Climbers - chain grabs, good recovery, strong smashes, should move up.
Kirby - Can't tell you how annoying this guy is, expecting him to move up
Pit - Don't know Lolz, Wish I did.
Wolf - Don't know...

Middle
Toon Link - Good aerials, good projectiles, fast and quick. Good placement
Olimar - Insane grabs, but poor recovery, should move a few spots down.
Fox - I would have expected him to move a little higher, with the shine and upsmash, Lolz
Zelda - Dins fire, dtilt locks and crazy kill moves, don't know why shes this low....
Zero Suit Samus - Lol, dsmash and good recovery, expected to move up
Bowser - I was surprised to see him this high, but with his grab releases...
Luigi - Should definitely move up, he's a machine.
Peach - She's definetly moving up, no doubt about it.
Ike - with his new found grab releases, I expect him to move up a few.
Sheik - Given, she was nerfed from melee ];

Low
Lucas - Have no idea why hes this low
Ness- Have no idea why hes this low either
Mario - mama mia
Pokémon Trainer - kind of expected it, what with the fatique and forced switches.
Samus - moving up lolz
Yoshi - Definitely moving higher, why? Because he's awesome.
Sonic - Blegh, he doesn't have much prority.
Jigglypuff - Lol, sing.
Ganondorf - Lolz. No comment
Link - Expected to be a bit higher, can't justify my reasonings.
Captain Falcon - One of this magnitude of manliness does not deserve low tier. For Falcon punch shalt guide him to victory.


I got kinda lazy at the Low section

 

[The Real Gamer]

People (IMO) who should move up.

Lucas- When Brawl first came out, I remember a lot of people thinking that Lucas was one of the best in the game, and he's just been falling since. Good projectile, fantastic aerials, very strong smash attacks, very strong throws, and a gimp-proof recovery. Seriously, you guys think that Ike/Bowser should be placed higher than him?

Zelda- Her attacks have so much doggone priority it's not fair. She has an amazing projectile. And her D-tilt lock is a pain in the a**. I can easily see her moving to high tier.

Wolf- I know his recovery sucks major a**, but the rest of his moveset just about makes up for it. Amazing > smash, one of the best D smashes in the game, reflector, that doggone blaster, and a great back air. Imo, if you look past his xtremely terrible recovery, you will see a powerhouse.

Wario- Wario is one of those characters that isn't easy to pick up like many high/top tiers, but when put in the right hands (FUTILE), you get an amazing character that has everything that you can ask for... Seriously. Smash attacks, recovery, weight, aerial game, a great super-armored > smash attack, some of the greatest B moves in the game... Only thing he doesnt really have is a good ground game, but a good Wario knows that he should constantly be in the air anywayz...I could easily see Wario being in the top 3 right behind MK and Snake.

And last but not least, METAKNIGHT! Due to Shuttle loop and Nado of DOOM, MK deserves his own tier.... The Metaknight tier.

Anyone agree/disagree?

 

[8AngeL8]

Lucas I agree should move up a bit. He's not great, but he's fairly solid. Decent projectiles, decent aerials, good mindgames with PK thunder. He's a pretty solid character all around, I think he should move up a bit.

Zelda I think is good where she is. She's one of those matchups you have a hard time against until you figure out what gets around her attacks, then you'll start totally destroying her. Yeah, she has some crazy hitboxes, but a lot of her best moves only connect if you jump into them.

Wolf should go down, I think. Solid moveset, for sure, but he just gets locked down by too many characters. I just can't see someone with as many weaknesses as Wolf above someone as underrated as Shiek or Olimar.

 

[SonicBoom2]

Wolf should go down, but not by much.

Most of the moving will be in the Low Tier.
Sonic is really being represented in tourneys,
Jigglypuff might stay the same if her results will be the same,
Samus, I never known much about her.
The PSI boys are moving up like it or not. They are decent, dare I say balanced.
Mario: So Bowser is higher than Mario? Nintendo scares me. I think he will either stay the same or get lowered.
Yoshi, I think he will stay the same/get lowered. Why? He just scares me.
Link may switch places with Ganondorf. But then again, Ganondorf can has an awesome techchase and uberly powerful. I never actually seen a pro Ganon in play though.


Wario... It's Jigglypuff with less jumps but heaver

 

[PKNintendo]

Lucas I agree should move up a bit. He's not great, but he's fairly solid. Decent projectiles, decent aerials, good mindgames with PK thunder. He's a pretty solid character all around, I think he should move up a bit.

Zelda I think is good where she is. She's one of those matchups you have a hard time against until you figure out what gets around her attacks, then you'll start totally destroying her. Yeah, she has some crazy hitboxes, but a lot of her best moves only connect if you jump into them.

Wolf should go down, I think. Solid moveset, for sure, but he just gets locked down by too many characters. I just can't see someone with as many weaknesses as Wolf above someone as underrated as Shiek or Olimar.

Ness should move up, he's clearly superior to Lucas in most ways. Even the Lucas mains themselves think he's low tier. Not that I think Lucas is low tier, heck he even has a new tech that helps when facing Marth!

 

[gantrain05]

Ness should move up, he's clearly superior to Lucas in most ways. Even the Lucas mains themselves think he's low tier. Not that I think Lucas is low tier, heck he even has a new tech that helps when facing Marth!

care to explain this new tech vs marth? because its kinda hard to get outta that grab realease crap.

 

[greenflame88]

Lucas is my main, and I believe he's better than Ness, but maybe I'm biased. Plus, I think most of Lucas' moves > Ness' moves. His PK Thunder is easier to use and he goes farther than Ness. His PK Fire is just great. It has GREAT knockback and its good when facing Yoshi's rolling egg attack. I found out last night, yeah I'm probably stupid for just now realizing this, but when you use the bdown move and your opponet is in the shield thing, when you let go they get sent flying away! I thought it was neat, but it's a little hard to pull off at the right time... Lucas' PK Freeze moves faster than Ness' PK Flash, but it's harder to control since it automatically will go down when not controlled... < Just my views and thoughts

XD

 

[8AngeL8]

Ness should move up, he's clearly superior to Lucas in most ways. Even the Lucas mains themselves think he's low tier. Not that I think Lucas is low tier, heck he even has a new tech that helps when facing Marth!

I agree completely. I was just commenting on the previous post when I named Lucas. Both of them will move up, and I think Ness should be the higher of the two.

 

[A1lion835]

Ness should move up, he's clearly superior to Lucas in most ways. Even the Lucas mains themselves think he's low tier. Not that I think Lucas is low tier, heck he even has a new tech that helps when facing Marth!

Forgive me if I am ignorant to some amazing Ness technique, but...

Explain to me how Ness>Lucas. Lucas has ZAP JUMP AND MAGNET PULL. Ness has nothing like that. Lucas has an awesome recovery, whereas Ness...

 

[gantrain05]

Forgive me if I am ignorant to some amazing Ness technique, but...

Explain to me how Ness>Lucas. Lucas has ZAP JUMP AND MAGNET PULL. Ness has nothing like that. Lucas has an awesome recovery, whereas Ness...

oh, well theres the fact that ness can actually fight onstage whereas lucas just gets his *** beat around. and ness has recovery techniques as well, his Fair jump is better than zap jump because it will actually protect him from being gimped, and magnet pull gives u like, no distance at all, only good for stalling. and lucas has problems killing. whereas ness can actually use his arials to kill, Dair/Bair/Uair/Nair all will kill.

 

[choknater]

Zap Jump is not a useful technique. You can only use it for recovery, and even then it's still risky. Who cares if Ness has nothing like that? Magnet pull isn't useful either. Well, recovery, sure.

They are recovery moves.

IMO they are both decent, and pretty much at the same level, but still completely different. Different play styles and totally different moves. IMO Lucas is only a bit better cuz he is faster... but Ness is more solid.

I dunno, it's really hard to compare them cuz they're so different.

 

[PKNintendo]

care to explain this new tech vs marth? because its kinda hard to get outta that grab realease crap.

No, no. Lucas actually can grab a LOT of the cast. Grab release>down tilt usually works on 1/3 or 1 1/2 out of 3. Essential he can grab Marth>down tilt him, and (8 out of 9 times) he will trip.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=202134

Essentially, I've always thought grab releases' we're abit overrated. Everyone (who doesn't main Ness) assumes that they can pick up Marth and auto win. EIDI deals with him. Ness true weaknesses are his bad grab release animation which leads into attackes.
Or

1 abnormal CG. Which is done by Sonic. Ness can escape marth's dash grab with EIDI anyways.
(which only works on characters who hold Ness up) This helps in escaping Peach's new CG too.

Moving on, Ness has decent matchups (IMO) his recovery is not hot though.

@ choknater, what the hell are you talking about. They're same characters with different skins and slightly different A moves. They're identical in everyway.

 

[choknater]

@ choknater, what the hell are you talking about. They're same characters with different skins and slightly different A moves. They're identical in everyway.

Uh, are you being sarcastic?

 

[A1lion835]

Ness' recovery is so easily gimped it makes me laugh. Just jump onto the PK Thunder and he goes into helpless. I don't know what you're talking about when you say the magnet pull and zap jump don't help. Once Ness is being edgeguarded, he's basically dead.

 

[M15t3R E]

Ness' recovery is so easily gimped it makes me laugh. Just jump onto the PK Thunder and he goes into helpless. I don't know what you're talking about when you say the magnet pull and zap jump don't help. Once Ness is being edgeguarded, he's basically dead.

^ Doing that for the KO always makes me 'lol'.

 

[gantrain05]

Ness' recovery is so easily gimped it makes me laugh. Just jump onto the PK Thunder and he goes into helpless. I don't know what you're talking about when you say the magnet pull and zap jump don't help. Once Ness is being edgeguarded, he's basically dead.

you play some really crappy ness's then.

 

[M15t3R E]

you play some really crappy ness's then.

Ness has no recovery options other than his PK Thunder, so it's very predictable.
Ness can't overcome his predictable and easily gimpable recovery no matter how skilled the player is.

 

[PKNintendo]

Ness has no recovery options other than his PK Thunder, so it's very predictable.
Ness can't overcome his predictable and easily gimpable recovery no matter how skilled the player is.

Yes he can. It's called saving your DJ and psi magnet stall. Seriously, it's like Ike. People play 1 crappy Ike and think Ike sucks. People play one crappy Ness using his recovery, and think the recovery is terrible.

And Al, do you honestly think a character with a better recovery makes them better? Say that to Snake then. Wario clearly has the superior recovery, is he better? No.

@ Choknater, I was being sarcastic.

 

[A1lion835]

You just said Wario has a better recovery than Snake? What planet are you from? I really hope that was sarcasm.

Either that or you wanted to switch them.

 

[choknater]

With Ness, you just attempt to recover high like Snake and then DI. Yes he is easier to edge guard than Lucas, but Ness is gonna try to avoid the edge anyway unless he's going for some crazy Spike or PK fire stuff.

The main difference between them is the on-the-stage play, where Ness tries to space with a lot of fairs and confusing jump movements. For Kills, Ness has to find opportunities for charged fsmash or spike... but his aerials and yoyo are really strong anyway so he can kill with those.

Lucas uses his faster moves like dair, nair, tilts, and jabs in order to maximize his effectiveness and then find opportunities for the KO moves. His pk thunder and fsmash are much better than Ness's.

Completely different strategies. Anyone who calls them similar really hasn't played them, probably.

@PK Nintendo: Haha okay, I thought so.

 

[M15t3R E]

Yes he can. It's called saving your DJ and psi magnet stall. Seriously, it's like Ike. People play 1 crappy Ike and think Ike sucks. People play one crappy Ness using his recovery, and think the recovery is terrible.

And Al, do you honestly think a character with a better recovery makes them better? Say that to Snake then. Wario clearly has the superior recovery, is he better? No.

@ Choknater, I was being sarcastic.

What's preventing me from rushing out and gimping Ness while he works his psi magnet stall?
Last time I checked it doesn't deal any damage to the opponent.

 

[PKNintendo]

You just said Wario has a better recovery than Snake? What planet are you from? I really hope that was sarcasm.

Either that or you wanted to switch them.

XD! You just proved your worth in this discussion.

Choknator got it right.
@ Mister Em I just gave a few tips. Recovering in Brawl is ridiculously easy, it's not a challenge getting back on stage. (I know, I main him) It's like me giving info about Pikachu's recovery (even though I don't main him) please main him before you start stating info about his recovery.