The Official SBR-B Brawl Tier List v2.0

[Smooth Criminal]

I love Smashboards. <3

Smooth Criminal

 

[Vorguen]

I love people who sign their name after their posts. <3

Smooth Criminal

 

[Frown]

Stop that Smooth Criminal crap!

-Bowser King

 

[Red Arremer]

Stop that Smooth Criminal crap!

-Bowser King

Oh. My. God.

Frown... you just became my favouritestest person on Smashboards. I love you now. [no homo... well, maybe a lil bit].

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Stop that Smooth Criminal crap!

-Bowser King

no u

But seriously, guys. Smooth Criminal crap aside, let's get this topic back on track. I don't feel like being handed the banhammer.

Now about that DDD. Fail or win?

Smooth Criminal

 

[Red Arremer]

Oh that chaingrabbing jerk. How I loathe him. Being a Bowser player, De3 is pretty much the thing I hate most in this game. =P

Not to mention he's like the only character I can't do crap with.

I mean, I won't deny he's darn good and deserves to be up there, don't get me wrong... I just utterly hate him with a passion. Hard to kill, annoying range, CHAINGRABS, stupid projectile... Gah.

I think I can understand why people dislike players using De3... he's just so horrible to deal with. >_<

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Oh that chaingrabbing jerk. How I loathe him. Being a Bowser player, De3 is pretty much the thing I hate most in this game. =P

Not to mention he's like the only character I can't do crap with.

I mean, I won't deny he's darn good and deserves to be up there, don't get me wrong... I just utterly hate him with a passion. Hard to kill, annoying range, CHAINGRABS, stupid projectile... Gah.

I think I can understand why people dislike players using De3... he's just so horrible to deal with. >_<

* BIG GRIN.* That's what I like to hear. Hatred. Makes me feel like I'm doing something right when I play this character.

I do feel that the metagame is going to at least get to a point where he'll be overcome with relative ease.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Red Arremer]

* BIG GRIN.* That's what I like to hear. Hatred. Makes me feel like I'm doing something right when I play this character.

lol. First of all, I'd rather be complimented of my skill with character X rather than being hated/bashed because of some chaingrabs. =P
As said, I wouldn't even mind them so bad, if De3 wouldn't have an infinite on Bowser (and the other 4 guys). His grab range is just too frigging good.

I do feel that the metagame is going to at least get to a point where he'll be overcome with relative ease.

I dunno, I don't frequent the De3 boards. ;O
But seeing how his game seems revolve alot around Grabs, Waddle Dees and BAir, I dunno. lol

 

[Smooth Criminal]

lol. First of all, I'd rather be complimented of my skill with character X rather than being hated/bashed because of some chaingrabs. =P
As said, I wouldn't even mind them so bad, if De3 wouldn't have an infinite on Bowser (and the other 4 guys). His grab range is just too frigging good.

Well, you see, I have Plank's vision of Brawl. I'd rather not expound on it because it isn't a very pleasant one, but needless to say being bashed/hated for shiz is part of that goal. Somewhere along the way I'll get a compliment or two, tho'.

I dunno, I don't frequent the De3 boards. ;O
But seeing how his game seems revolve alot around Grabs, Waddle Dees and BAir, I dunno. lol

I can see a comment like that going both ways, Spade. Yeah, DDD's grab range is absolutely ridiculous and he can CG 2/3 of the cast. It's a pretty big number and a pretty big advantage (probably the biggest one, imo). Waddle Dees can limit camping to a degree and are a decent projectile in their own right. B-air speaks for itself, really.

But what if that's all he has? Brawl's a limited game, sure, but I don't think people are going to be brickwalled by this forever. Something's gotta give. DDD can grab well? It's time to space. Waddle Dees getting you down? Time to camp smarter/harder. B-air nailing you in the face one too many times? Time to space and then **** before he autocancels it into something else.

Very general solutions, I know, but it holds true.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Red Arremer]

lol I know what you mean, it's like with MK's metagame. That kinda stagnated too for pretty much the same reason - nothing new is discovered.

Being in such a nice position in Top Tier doesn't help your character like at all. People are going to go for counter strategies on those characters.
Of course, general metagame movement is pretty dead right now because everyone is trying to find stuff to counter MK, Falco or De3, but as soon as this is exploited, people will start to look at other stuff. ;O

 

[Bowser King]

Stop that Smooth Criminal crap!

-Bowser King

QFT!

Bowser King is the way to go

-Bowser King

 

[Collective of Bears]

QFT!

Bowser King is the way to go

-Bowser King

Indeed.

While Dedede's chaingrab will never be obsolete, eventually people will start figuring out how to avoid it, probably by countering with MK, Falco, Diddy, or the like. Dedede will have a tougher and tougher time dealing with it, and he'll go down. Although IMO, he'll never leave top 10.

-Bowser King

 

[Jeet Kune Do]

Yeah, for sure. DDD definitely has many strengths besides his grabs. Even if non-cgable chars and the like learn ways to defeat him, they still have to get past his power, priority, and range. Those features will definitely keep him near the top.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Lucas is a fairly decent character with no impossible matchups and a lot of neat things going for him. I've started to use him to fight campers (Falco and Dedede, mostly), and it seems to be working really well.

If people practiced all his various tricks and the like, he could move up some.

 

[Dynamism?]

I'm not going to let some list tell me how to play a game.

I will, and Random is top tier so...easy choice.

Then don't. It's pretty **** simple.

Smooth Criminal

Smooth Criminal

10 Smooth Criminals

Smooth Criminal for Tier Under Mewtwo

Tier
Mewtwo

Tier
Smooth Criminal

Tier
MK

Smooth Criminal





just thought I'd throw that out there...

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I'm not going to let some list tell me how to play a game.

No one asked you to. It's mostly just a representation of what we've seen in the cast's potential via tournament placings. No one said that anyone had to use it in order to pick their characters (in fact, that's quite rare).

 

[Sushi21]

ya, I'm pretty sure the people that made the list said that in the first place.

I'm just glad Link has gone up! A steady pace to the top!

 

[Collective of Bears]

ya, I'm pretty sure the people that made the list said that in the first place.

I'm just glad Link has gone up! A steady pace to the top!

You're joking right?

 

[Bowser King]

Lucas is a fairly decent character with no impossible matchups and a lot of neat things going for him. I've started to use him to fight campers (Falco and Dedede, mostly), and it seems to be working really well.

If people practiced all his various tricks and the like, he could move up some.

If I'm not wrong, Lucas has 4 very bad matchups (semi-bad in the case of MK). There called the fatal/deadly 4 I believe. I think it's MK, GaW, marth and DK

DK 75-25
Marth 30-70
MK 35-65
GaW 20-80

All pretty bad if you ask me.

EDIT:Link-http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=212013&

-Bowser King

 

[BBoyindo]

And, two of those (DK and Marth) can infinite you. Idk about GaW though.
Nvm i just found out. These characters are played a lot in tournies, so Lucas is not safe to use on the blind pick and on counterpicks.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

If I'm not wrong, Lucas has 4 very bad matchups (semi-bad in the case of MK). There called the fatal/deadly 4 I believe. I think it's MK, GaW, marth and DK

DK 75-25
Marth 30-70
MK 35-65
GaW 20-80

All pretty bad if you ask me.

EDIT:Link-http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=212013&

-Bowser King

DK...25-75?

That sounds...interesting. I figured N-Air in itself would sort of destroy him, as well as the fact that he's not particularly mobile. :/

G&W is an average, very one-dimensional character (EDIT: I don't need jokes about him actually being two-dimensional), and there's no way that's 20-80. PK Fire is perfectly viable, especially since it's relatively fast, and a Bucketed PK Fire is a free punish move for you, since it lags so much when it catches something.

Marth and MK certainly aren't fun, but they're not "pick another character or lose" material. It's doable; you just have to work hard.

 

[HiddenBowser]

DK...25-75?

That sounds...interesting. I figured N-Air in itself would sort of destroy him, as well as the fact that he's not particularly mobile. :/

G&W is an average, very one-dimensional character (EDIT: I don't need jokes about him actually being two-dimensional), and there's no way that's 20-80. PK Fire is perfectly viable, especially since it's relatively fast, and a Bucketed PK Fire is a free punish move for you, since it lags so much when it catches something.

Marth and MK certainly aren't fun, but they're not "pick another character or lose" material. It's doable; you just have to work hard.

lmao, good joke

 

[Bowser King]

DK...25-75?

That sounds...interesting. I figured N-Air in itself would sort of destroy him, as well as the fact that he's not particularly mobile. :/

G&W is an average, very one-dimensional character (EDIT: I don't need jokes about him actually being two-dimensional), and there's no way that's 20-80. PK Fire is perfectly viable, especially since it's relatively fast, and a Bucketed PK Fire is a free punish move for you, since it lags so much when it catches something.

Marth and MK certainly aren't fun, but they're not "pick another character or lose" material. It's doable; you just have to work hard.

I don't know =/

After reading the OP it seems like each of them has many things over Lucas and they all seem really bad.

Also, when you say "work hard" that is why it's a bad matchup. The Marth and MK won't have much trouble while you'll be in a quite bad situation. Not to mention that you'll have to work really hard. It being doable doesn't mean it lessens how bad it is.

Some matchups are doable but are they likely? Hell no.

-Bowser King

 

[Scott!]

Marth's infinite on Lucas can be escaped with that special DI, I believe, though he can still regrab by going forward a little. It makes things hard for Lucas there. It's not an auto-win for Marth, but it's still really bad. Lucas might be able to shine as a secondary though; he's got some crazy stuff, though I really don't know him too well. He's fun though.

 

[BBoyindo]

Marth's infinite on Lucas can be escaped with that special DI, I believe, though he can still regrab by going forward a little. It makes things hard for Lucas there. It's not an auto-win for Marth, but it's still really bad. Lucas might be able to shine as a secondary though; he's got some crazy stuff, though I really don't know him too well. He's fun though.

Only Ness can do that, and like you said you can just walk forward a bit.

 

[Frown]

Is Ness able to do a nair during his grab release?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Marth doesn't have an outright infinite on Lucas, though; unlike Ness, Lucas moves forward with each grab release. That isn't going to add up to be any worse than, say, Dedede's chaingrab, although getting smacked with a free tipped D-Smash at the end is never fun.

 

[Bowser King]

Is Ness able to do a nair during his grab release?

No. No character can move during the grab release (depending on the amount of frames, for lucas and ness it's 40 frames). After the grab release they can.

That's why bowsers chaingrab works. He gets free from the grab release animation of frame 20 (he's the only character) so he has 10 frames to regrab (and in the case of ness and lucas, 20). DK is the only character Bowser can't because he's special too (gets out of release on frame 20). The average frame is 30 I think.

I read that from MreH's thread so I'm guessing it's true

-Bowser King

 

[ShadowLink84]

yep you're right.
Everyone else is 30 frames on ground release.
Dk ad bowser are 20
mother boys are 40
air releases are 50
jiggly and squirtle 49

Funny stuff

 

[IsmashedYOURmom]

Did I say i'm maining IC's? WTF was I on that day? I main Sheik, hence the low tiers ftw. I really got screwed up on that one.

Anyone know sheik's grab release frame? b/c i've tried chaining grabs by pummeling, releasing, grab, pummel - rinse and repeat. Can't seem to do it.

Anyways, sheik will climb up their probably no doubt. Her DACUS when executed well is sickening. Although, I can see Bowser def. climbin up there by leaps and bounds.

 

[ShadowLink84]

It is 30.
Everyone is 30 on release except for
DK,Bowser,Mother boys.

 

[Lawz.]

Did I say i'm maining IC's? WTF was I on that day? I main Sheik, hence the low tiers ftw. I really got screwed up on that one.

Anyone know sheik's grab release frame? b/c i've tried chaining grabs by pummeling, releasing, grab, pummel - rinse and repeat. Can't seem to do it.

Anyways, sheik will climb up their probably no doubt. Her DACUS when executed well is sickening. Although, I can see Bowser def. climbin up there by leaps and bounds.

shiek isn't low tier.

 

[IsmashedYOURmom]

shiek isn't low tier.

Sure about that? Last I looked, she was placed in the E tier. Seems low to me...

Maybe not so much anymore, i dunno how the tourny results are comin in now, but E would seem low to me.

 

[Lawz.]

Sure about that? Last I looked, she was placed in the E tier. Seems low to me...

Maybe not so much anymore, i dunno how the tourny results are comin in now, but E would seem low to me.

E tier isn't low tier. F tier and G tier are low. so yes i am sure.

 

[Collective of Bears]

Sure about that? Last I looked, she was placed in the E tier. Seems low to me...

Maybe not so much anymore, i dunno how the tourny results are comin in now, but E would seem low to me.

E isn't neccessarily low. E has Luigi and Bowser, both of whom are rather viable.

 

[IsmashedYOURmom]

E isn't neccessarily low. E has Luigi and Bowser, both of whom are rather viable.

wow how newbish of me then. Noted!

 

[Piman34]

when you have to regrab (like for bowser) do you have to press AND release the button within the (10) frames permitted to regrab on the grab release? or just press it soemtiem after they're released?

 

[A1lion835]

Alright...random question:

Could Sakurai be a tiny bit more helpful? You know, tell us the weight of all the characters, the fall speed, important frames...

 

[Tenki]

no.

Games should just be for fun and shouldn't be explored that way.


at least, it seems so in his ideology.

and besides, I'm pretty sure he just supervised the thing. I don't think he would have personally programmed each and every character, if he programs at all.

when you have to regrab (like for bowser) do you have to press AND release the button within the (10) frames permitted to regrab on the grab release? or just press it soemtiem after they're released?

Well, technically, you only have to press the button, since the press is what triggers it, not the release.

But you have to get it in the certain timeframe. If you take too long, the opponent can escape. If you do it too early, there might be a chance on some characters to miss the regrab due to range issues (?)

 

[woody72691]

how hard is it to work against marth when your playing a character in the low tiers?