The official "RATE MY KIRBY" and "HELP WITH A MATCHUP" thread!

[DRDN]

If they go up and in front kirby can get an easy upsmash especially if they airdodge

 

[Sage JoWii]

Not a chance. It's not like we have a BDACUS or somethin'. UpSmash has a lot of start up lag and FC has a lot of endlag. The chance of you landing an UpSmash off of Wifi is very very nonexistent.

 

[Starwarrior27]

If they go up and in front kirby can get an easy upsmash especially if they airdodge

Yes, like JoWii said, the chances of landing an up smash in general is rare to none in a match, and to say that Final Cutter sets up for an up smash would only work in situations in which your opponent is not entirely sure of what they are doing. Granted, we can use the afterhit of up smash to catch people off guard, but to sweetspot with it in a non-punishing situation is incredibly rare in competive play.

FC is best for planking and pretty much mostly planking; there are other situational uses but they're less common.

I do agree this is how one would see final cutter used most often, but that does not mean that it is an effective usage of Final Cutter. For one, when planking with Final Cutter it is essential that the Kirby player hits with the upward slash or get punished on the downward slash. Additionally, Final Cutter is laggy enough that it can be powershielded when planking with it. Overall the lag makes final cutter a bad move unless the projectile is used to the Kirby player's advantage. This advantage could best be seen by using Final Cutter as an unpredictable spacing move, so long as Final Cutter is not spammed.

 

[Sage JoWii]

Well if the first upward part of FC misses it's probably because your opponent wasn't close enough to the edge in which case you should be moderately safe from being powershielded. If the upward slash gets powershielded you shouldn't have been using FC anyways because they were too close; there are better options in this scenario. FC is not a spacing move and if you're saying it's best advantage is seen through this use you're mistaken buddy.
Obviously FC's best use IS planking because it's the safest use of it; also it's a better use planking than in any other scenario by default making it FC's best area of use.

 

[Gova]

I hope I'm not unnecessarily bumping this thread...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rcz69ztVAto

Preferably, I would like to know what I can punish, and how to avoid taking damage and by that I mean what should moves should I sheild/spotdodge/move away from, and just anything relating to the opponent.



Also feel free to ignore the 3rd match. That was just match up stage ignorance on my part.

 

[DRDN]

i have almost no experience against sonics so i cant help too much but remember dair>fTILT is like guarentee and the smash is easy to P shield. For your momentum cancel dont do dair it takes to long in that time you can uair and hammer to try and stop better also it looiks like dash grabs are a bad choice its better to dash shield and if you see him shield grab then. Try not to rush it so much sonic ability to go to time isnt a bad thing just try to not get hit as much by going for less attacks and you cant get punished so much

 

[REL38]

A bit of a bump, but I need criticizm if I wanna actively start getting better

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjmQNq48ojc

The vid is rather old, but I honestly haven't gotten much better than this when it comes to the Marth match-up
:/

Help is appreciated

 

[DRDN]

if you timed grabbing the ledge better you would have won

 

[MikeKirby]

Alright lets see... given you said the vid's old I'm sure you corrected a few of these things but I'll just point them out anyway. Kirby's specials aren't really abusable. Up-B (Final Cutter) is really only to be used as a recovery move. I see when you recover you used Side-B. Remember that your hammer carries phantom lag*. At 0:58 you can see Marth punished you for the landing lag that Side-B gives you. I saw you try some Down-B's (stone). Unless, you know 100% it will hit, don't really ever use it the Marth match-up. Same with Neutral-B (inhale), although you found "the answer" later on and I congratulate you on that one! Don't rely on that though Marth can outrange it very easily. Also, you should bait more. You were a tad too aggressive -- something Kirby really can't do. You have to kind of weave in and out. You seem to just jump into the fray and get f-aired often. Try to avoid doing that. You did start out beautifully the first few seconds, though. When Marth started putting the pressure on you you got a bit smash happy (0:38-0:43). Try using your tilts more especially in place of a dash attack. Don't really roll into anyone cause you'll get punished for it (2:17). The start of your third stock you were doing fine but don't always rush in and short hop B-air all the time. Do what you did at (3:06) a bit more often. Oh and yeah, timing the edge hog would have probably helped. Don't run in and grab it just wait until the moment is right and then grab it.

Basically to sum it up.
++More tilts
+Baits
+patience
+timing dat edge hog!
-Dash Attacks
-Specials
-Smash attack (unless if it's for a punish!)

I'd like to direct you to read this for a quick guide on the match-up!
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=271022

*Phantom Lag - Landing lag you receive from performing a special attack. Best way to notice it with Kirby is by going to training mode and seeing it. Try short hopping a couple of times. Seamless right? Then use your down-b (stone) or side-b (Hammer) on the ground or in the air. After using these moves you now have Phantom Lag. Try executing quick short hops now. You will see the first time you land you will be stuck a landing animation for a few frames. AVOID THIS. Either try finding a safe place to land and get rid of it or if the situation is to hazardis try masking the Phantom Lag with a land canceled aerial.

Dang, wall-o-text...

 

[REL38]

Thank you so much for the advise!

Since then, I've been working on tilts and being more defensive

I had no idea about phantom lag
>_>;

The input is so very helpful
:D

 

[Sage JoWii]

Spoiler

1st stock:
:11-:14; I liked what I saw. Cute.
You should spend at LEAST 60% of the match facing away from Marth. If you need to approach, which you really shouldn't be doing much, approach by jumping onto a platform, reverseing yourself as you fall through the platform and BAir! It's easy and works as a mixup because if you don't like how he's reacting by the time you reach the platform you can just avoid the situation.
Also, work crouching into your gameplay. If you aren't faced away (idk why) then at least be crouching to minimize your size so you stop eating random hits. It also works if you're facing away (which I do a lot because if you're already holding down to crouch, when you REACTIVE BAir, you'll SH most of the time automatically.)
When recovering, always face away if you're above the ledge since BAir is your GTFO move.
Don't rock in this MU. It's not worth it.
2nd stock:
Get styled on much? Don't worry. Marth has waaay better aerial speed and a great edgegaurd onstage. ****ING GRAB THE LEDGE. :D k? The best thing you can do is stop Marth from getting momentum by keeping the speed of the match @ your pace. Grab the ledge, and plank for a second while you slow the match speed down. Take a breath and RARBAir/UAir shark/FC plank. Any option that isn't blantantly try for the stage.
Btw, FTilt is good for spacing an approaching Marth. It's super fast and has good range.
DONT APPROACH.
Ok, stop with that rar'dSHUAir. >_> It's flashy but BAir is the better option.
I <3 you for Kirbiciding. It's always 'the Answer'.
3rd stock:
Still approaching. Don't do it.
Also, I noticed that you stay grounded a lot. Normally that's good but uh, Kirby BAir beats Marth FAir. It's ok to work the platforms into it as long as you're BAiring on reaction.
BTW, stop using rock -_-;;;
>_> When Marth is falling back to the stage, it's a good time to bait his DAir (which has cooldown and end lag yo). Just jump up and fake a UAir, then punish w/ BAir or something.
Btw when Marth is on the ledge, be far enough that if he lands on the stage, you can DTilt him or react if he goes high.
One of Marth's 'set-up's you kept falling for is when he jumps over you. >_> If he does that expect a BAir. Shield it and wait it out or get away.

Tl;dr-

You need to approach a lot less. BAir more. Utilize the platforms by falling through and BAiring or to regain your jumps so you can resume camping. Don't rock. Space your edgegaurd. Crouch more. Bait Marth while he's falling to the stage. Save FSmash for the kill or punish a landing w/ DSmash.

 

[Zodiark]

I'd like to have some critiques for my friend Masteroy . He doesn't have a smashboards account so I post 'em.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r91HYXMjo8&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_Oke5SsHeo&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNkpqucG9DY&feature=player_embedded

These matchs are new , done yesterday .

 

[Sage JoWii]

A few general things.

Don't plank a Pikachu, it's high risk/low reward. Also when you're returning to the stage try and use your jumps first and your FC as a last resort.

Kirby should take Pikachu's power because Kirby has more jumps to aircamp w/ T-jolt and it aides recovery.

Grab combo for this MU: FThrow>UAir>reverseUTilt>BAir. Also FThrow>Uair>FThrow>FTilt. AND FThrow>reverseUTilt>BAir. Try those out @ 0% and low percents.

Your specials AREN'T the best option for punishing a landing/returning Pikachu because they're easily PS'd and punished. A grab would prolly be better or something like DTilt or reverseUtilt.

Kirby should aim to control center stage because Pikachu has an easier time getting kills if Kirby is on the outside.

Lastly, BAir, UTilt, and Grabs should be your MAIN tools when going into this MU. Anything outside of those moves should be used sparingly; basically you need to find the right time for certain moves. ALSO take a guaranteed punish over a risky punish unless you're losing horribly.

I'd rate this Kirby a solid 5/10. It's decent, and has raw talent but needs to be polished more. Take time to read the Pikachu MU export and ask questions regarding central Kirby strategies (which you may come to find out aren't as exciting as utilizing ALL of his moves). Keep improving!

 

[Triple R]

Holy obnoxious texture hacks Batman!

 

[DRDN]

Grounded hammer= BAD and you do it quite a bit
Nair= Almost as bad you hit with it but you see why its bad because right after you get hit, In video 2 you hit him while hes quick attacking through you and that was a good nair
U throw in video 2 the second time should have been done right away so you could hit the platform and maybe got the kill waiting assured he wouldnt die and could have been a down throw instead
When your coming back and pika comes after you its best to keep your options open you got hit by thunder because you were doing a hammer even a wrongly timed airdodge is instant death so only use your jumps and fastfalls to get out of his attack

 

[Zodiark]

Thanks guys ! For the Nair out of Fthrow , he was trying to footstool me and lock but that's not true right?

 

[Sage JoWii]

>_> Kirby get footstool locked? Not unless that's Lucas. Honestly it's not something you need to worry about in that MU especially when YOU get the grab.

 

[DRDN]

Pika can't lock you if he footstools and upbs down?

 

[Sage JoWii]

It's not that he can't, but honestly it's not a major concern. If KIRBY FThrows, Pikachu should not be in a position to footstool you if you followup correctly. >_> Watch his vids and tell me that you think he's following up on his throws properly.

 

[DRDN]

The few throws he could follow up on looked good so yeah he was safe there

and I dont like your FCs their close to the edge but you dont grab the edge and the only time thats not safe is when someones going to edgehog you (but this is personal kirby opinion)

 

[GraphiK]

Hey guys, I know I need a LOT of improvement so the more people that could give me their opinions the better. I have two recent videos for you, both against my friend who mains Pit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6uI7qM6yh8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oFWDpYwHpI

 

[Sage JoWii]

.....15 seconds of all that AND NO ONE HITS??!

Edit:

Spoiler

Don't
Alright I noticed a LOT of rolling. Stop that. Also, stay more grounded. If you decide to go into the air FAir is not the correct option alllllll the time.
Do
BAir is. You can 'RAR' your BAir which means you can reverse yourself while maintaining forward momentum. Jump forward, slam back and then forward quickly while BAiring to 'RAR' it.
Grab more often @ lower percents and even at higher percents. GRAB!
As a okayer you need to rexamine your Kirby. Realize that throwing any and every move you have, isn't the best idea. Stay grounded, stay calm and react to Pit's actions. BAir a lot, grab often and mix-up if you become predictable.
Don't
Don't FC so much. It's very situational, to be used normally after you've used all your jumps to recover OR to plank the edge momentarily.
Don't Rock. I don't care if it lands once every 10239659375 tries and manages to kill. You're taking unnecessary risks every time.
Do
SmashDirectionInfluence (SDI) out of thaat lazer!!!! If you get hit by the lazer start smashing your control stick and C-stick in a direction OUT of the lazer.

Alright, I stopped halfway through the first video so I'll just go ahead and say this:

Good job picking Kirby, you made a great choice! Obviously you're new to Brawl's competitive scene so before you get discouraged by any critiques, chances are you'll wanna ease yourself into the process.

I recommend getting a Kirby mentor who can show you the basics of competitive Brawl AND show you the Kirby basics as well. It's the first step to learning how to be the best Kirby possible right off the bat. Here's the llink ----> http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=270192

After a bit of mentoring, you'll KNOW enough of the basics, that people like that Pit won't be a challenge anymore. That's when I suggest putting a vid up to let us help you refine your Kirby by pointing out habits you're neglecting and improvements that can be made.

If someone else wants to finish a critique, feel welcome to and the best of luck to start your improvement. We're all here if you need some advice.

 

[Triple R]

lol @ 2nd video

1:38 I'm shoving that little fact/trick up my sleeve. I usually pull back when hammer. If they are by the edge like that I'll have to try that out lol.

 

[REL38]

@JoWiicide

Forgot to thank you for the advice

I try to Kirby-cide when I can/need to, but feel guilty doing it against better players

 

[Sage JoWii]

No problem ;D that's what this board is here for.

DONT EVER FEEL BAD ABOUT KIRBICIDING!!!!!!!

 

[Karupin]

Hey
I got a video of me uploaded against my will and I thought I would make the best of it and try to get some critique. It is a doubles set (match 3 of 3)
I'm not exactly new to Kirby, but some outside opinions would be nice :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bd15wXFkLos

Thanks in advance <(^o^)>

 

[DRDN]

Too many aerial hammers MK is a hard person to hit with those and he can punish you very easily the one while he was in nado was a good choice if it was aimed right

While teaming with G&W steal his power so you can fill his bucket

The dair on MK by the tree probably could have been finished by a grab

at about 2:00 your just floating with no place to land sometimes its best to go hide behind your partner otherwise you can get gimped like that with 1 quick attack (I probably would have rock solid over my partner and hoped he saved me from taking too much damage from MK if i didnt hit him away but thats just me)

When MK hits you both off stage you get back quickly but you go after Yoshi instead of making sure your partner can make it back you could have daired or d tilted MK off the ledge. Even going back over there might have scared him off the ledge letting your partner have a chance

You guys started off really good but i think you got too focused on MK yoshi lived for a long time which shouldnt happen with 2 fast and hard hitting chars

I liked your U air combo in the begining too just missing the bair at the end of it

 

[Kappy]

I think it's time I actually got a video or two up. LOL.

I'd like to know what I could have punished and with what move I can punish with, and other general things I should work on in regards to the MK MU. That'd be a huge help!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTXsf_g12b4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yjk6-PxtiMk&feature=related

I need to stop getting frustrated by MK

 

[Y.b.M.]

I think it's time I actually got a video or two up. LOL.

I'd like to know what I could have punished and with what move I can punish with, and other general things I should work on in regards to the MK MU. That'd be a huge help!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTXsf_g12b4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yjk6-PxtiMk&feature=related

I need to stop getting frustrated by MK

Okay, I felt like you were running away and waiting for him to make a mistake rather than outwitting him. You must have more stage control against Metaknight. You don't wanna have fights on the edge of the stages. Try to keep it in the middle of the stage. Also, in situations at the 2:13 mark of the first Video, try to expect your opponent is going to Power shield and DI up so you don't get sent flying like that. It also, seems like you are guessing when you should kill and your forcing it by throwing F smashes out and hoping that he runs into them. Well, when players are at high percentages they shield much more and punish you for being to hasty which is probably why you struggled to KO your opponent when they were in KO percentage. Be patient a rack up damage until you get that opening. An U throw will get the job done in due time...

Also, you should charge you Smash moves a lil more, just to throw your opponent off a lil bit. A charged up smash and FSmash is super intimidating especially from Kirby. Don't forget that you can Fsmash through MKs Tornado.... Angle your Fsmash Up if he goes a little higher than you.

Another thing... Don't use your jumps as much as you do. Especially against MK when your off the stage. You're just begging to get gimped or shuttle looped away with no way of recovering. You should try using back air for momentum canceling since it comes out faster. When you recover off the ledge try to use Fair too...It allows you to retreat in time if they shield it. And if you hit them with it...they are set up for a grab...or you can reach a better position on the stage....

Great Kirby though...keep at it pimpin...

 

[Triple R]

Well I toke the liberty of watching the 1st match too since it is a set lol.

Why didn't you play like you did the first match...? You were playing much more confident then. I could literally see the change when he went from Ganon to Meta, you got scared. I'm pretty sure you let a change of character effect your confidence. That shouldn't happen, even if he went from worst to best character. All it seemed you were doing the second match was bairs, and you were too afraid to approach. If you would have played more aggressive like the first match, I'm confident you would have won.

I basically agree with what YbM said. Stay away from the edge, you kept on volunteering for him to corner you. Please don't do that.

Long story short, Be confident!!!!

 

[Kappy]

Thanks for the advice, both of you I really appreciate it!

 

[wh1te5had0w]

Well, it's my turn

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6_SgNgc4I4

we just had a friendly and recorded it. Could someone please tell me how to improve. Thanks

 

[Tiersie]

Kappy I have to say that is a really nice kirbycide bait you did there.

Also I did not see hup cancelling in the second match

 

[wh1te5had0w]

Someone? I could get a better video if that would help.

 

[Sage JoWii]

I'll post a critique tmrw after work. Around 4pm CST prolly.

 

[DRDN]

I see a few too many F smashs that do nothing until your goign for the kill and think it will hit those should all be tilts

I also see a lot of spot dodges which is a bad habit higher players like to take advantage of

you also roll to travel a bit in there and in the end he finds out all he has to do is d tilt and it hits you

oh and dont jump into bowsers down b

 

[kirbydabest]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNm2DKdLePM
please critque thank you!

 

[kirbydabest]

Well, it's my turn

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6_SgNgc4I4

we just had a friendly and recorded it. Could someone please tell me how to improve. Thanks

nice kirby man just a few to many fsmashes try this setup for kills go dair to fsmash it works cus theres a possibility of tripping the oppenent, and most ppl dont expect it try also doing dair then dash over for a grab these setups work beautifully.

also u shoulda tried getting bowser in the air more cus he's a heavy u know fthrow to multiple fairs then aerial hammer but dude u got an awesome kirby

 

[MikeKirby]

Lemme just say this to get it out of the way. The quality is... well if could be better. Dx

I'm currently watching it but I'd say you use your Hammer and Stone a bit more than you should. I've said this many times... Those moves have Phantom Lag! Yeah, aerial hammer has nice vertical recovery but only is it if you are running low on mid air jump. Also, you should have your back facing away from your opponent more times than not. You should throw some wall of b-airs some more. As far as D-airing to F-smash... yeah it's ok but don't rely on it and if done at low percents just go for a grab or f-tilt/d-tilt when you land. Keep your F-smash fresh until the KO percentages come up. Plus, if you face someone who can DI and space better you won't be landing your D-air>F-smash. Just know that D-air has a bit of start up and you can get really punished for it. You used it a bit more than I've seen other Kirbies. I'll finish watching the video and see more I can tell you.

Edit: Ok I finished watching it. Pretty much what I said is everything I would've said. I would add that I don't think I saw single tilt that whole match... I saw more Dash attacks... U-tilt at low percents is a good for racking up damage and at high percent's it sets for juggles! Also, you're a bit to aggressive. At times and you get punished for it. Do some more short hopped B-airs. It clashes with Ness's F-air if he misplaces it. I'm not sure if perfectly space if they both clash (hmmm). Let me share a nice little trivial thing to you; if you short hop a b-air you can mid air jump before you land and potentially score another b-air. It's pretty neat and baits shield drops well. Try it out.

Remember: b-air wall some mo'.

And congrats on winning your match!

 

[kirbydabest]

yeah i re watched the video and yeah quality sucked lol now that i look at it I sometimes do rely on dair fsmash to much i saw myself get punished for it multiple times, but usually i use stone for fast falling purposes is that bad? i see the over use in the hammer

also i see how being aggresive hurt me i had a huge percent lead but because i approached it got closer and closer but what do i do for that cus then ness can camp me with pk thunder and fire so what could i do and thanks for the fair tip i hate ness's fair. oh and i wasted an fsmash with my dair approach by accident lol when he was at 80 thought it would kill

sorry for all the questions just looking for ways to further improve xD