The official "RATE MY KIRBY" and "HELP WITH A MATCHUP" thread!

[MikeKirby]

No problem, that's what we are here for!

Stone for fast falling purposes it nice and all but I mean Kirby has 5 mid air jumps. If you use them wisely you can find a nice safe place to land or maybe even bait an opening to attack while you land (fake a landing>mid air jump>b-air). Also I liked what a fellow Kirby mentioned about stone. It doesn't necessarily apply to you but you can get some nice knowledge out of it:

Spoiler

[...], you would have gotten your jumps back if you'd stayed in stone and landed. Sure you would have taken a hit, but at least you wouldn't have lost a stock.
That's one of the ways I use stone a lot actually: get back to the ground when I've lost a few jumps and am up high. I may take a hit, but if I'm not in kill%, then it's worth it.

Hammer is nice for recovery as long as you can deal with the Phantom Lag that you get from it. Here I'll post what I said a while ago if you can't recall what Phantom Lag is.

Spoiler

*Phantom Lag - Landing lag you receive from performing a special attack. Best way to notice it with Kirby is by going to training mode and seeing it. Try short hopping a couple of times. Seamless right? Then use your down-b (stone) or side-b (Hammer) on the ground or in the air. After using these moves you now have Phantom Lag. Try executing quick short hops now. You will see the first time you land you will be stuck a landing animation for a few frames. AVOID THIS. Either try finding a safe place to land and get rid of it or if the situation is to hazardis try masking the Phantom Lag with a land canceled aerial.

Both Stone and Hammer (aerial or not) give you this. It's not something you want unless you want to get punished.

Ness can't really camp Kirby that hard. We can cancel out his PK Thunder projectile with a B-air or D-air. As for PK Fire we can just jump over it. Try to just hover right above it's trajectory. Some players get frustrated that they can't hit you with thier projectiles and end up becoming overly aggressive. Last I checked Kirby does fairly well in hand to hand combat.

 

[kirbydabest]

ok so for phantom lag does it stay with u and u have to get rid of it sort of like move decay? or is it just a one time thing like after the move?

And yeah kirby is a beast in hand to hand combat lol usually even though i have a stock or percent lead i like to keep pressure on the oppenent in fear of being camped so I'm guessing i should break that habit

also thanks for the stone quote I never thought of that usually I would be to scared to se stone like that in fear of getting punished.

 

[MikeKirby]

Yes, it stays with you until you physically touch the ground. Dx
It's not like a move decay. You just have to land that one time after you use Stone or Hammer to get rid of it. Phantom lag doesn't accumulate though so you'll only get that one landing animation no matter how many times you've used hammer and/or Stones while in the air. Use an aerial to mask the lag if you need to. By using an aerial you can cover yourself and get rid of that darn lag you get.

 

[kirbydabest]

Thank you! I really appreciate the advice!

 

[MikeKirby]

No problem. Always, mix up what you do and you'll start to see yourself getting better!

Hope to see you around.

 

[Dflected]

Hi guys! Here's my videos. Please critique, thanks!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40FTWF-_GkY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLZV0u7WwSg

 

[DRDN]

video 1 get that second grab and either do the fthrow>uair again or d throw>utilt(mix it up throughout the match). when you see fire charge the fsmash even after the roll you could have started charging and hit him.
STOP ROLLING TO MOVE biggest kirby problem most do. At high percents DONT dash attack fox is fast enough to run and punish and he can just shield>Usmash. Rock solid is almost never to be used on fox he can dash double jump uair before you even turn into a rock. If your facing fox I think a good thing to do is after you get that first kill and grab him FThrow>Uair>Fthrow>Inhale once you have that power you force him to approach because he cant sit there and take lasers when hes already a stock down and your probably already at kill % to his Usmash

Video 2; WHY DID YOU SPIT HIM OUT his power is the ability to spam arrows take that. You then have a long string of attacks that miss LOTS of Dairs right in front of him. When hes in front and below you you can FF a Fair and might hit but if you try to drag your dair to him your mostly going to just get smacked in the face. NEVER go after a planking pit...Unless he messes up and fast falls but thats still kinda iffy. Dthrow>Utilt works at low percents I dont really like U throw especially after a D throw I prefer fthrow then chasing with a fair or something like that dont use FC unless you have to during recovery you still had jumps left and died because you were too low. You become WAY too aggressive the whole ending your about a half inch away from his face which means anything he did was going to hit you. You air dodged 1 attack and was still right in front of him for his next on and when you DI towards him he can make combos. DI away and try to get in a better position

Just because you are coming to the ground and theres an opponant AROUND where your going to land DOES NOT mean you should dair one of the most punished moves I've seen all you do is add landing lag. If you D throw and your opponents coming back down straight their most likely going to dair you so get ready to shield/P shield it and then grab again you can get funny chain grabs on less skilled people until they figure that out. I also didn't see enough bair and way too many dairs

 

[DRDN]

I finally can put up a video to have others point out my flaws too bad its WIFI so I have more fsmashes then normal and its not my full ability but here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oH2ww3SwIkA

watching this has shown me that if im not dairing the ground when I come down im air dodging which can also be punished

 

[Kewkky]

I finally can put up a video to have others point out my flaws too bad its WIFI so I have more fsmashes then normal and its not my full ability but here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oH2ww3SwIkA

watching this has shown me that if im not dairing the ground when I come down im air dodging which can also be punished

* You're smashing waaay too much, gotta cut down on that. Use more tilts and aerials, they do the job better and don't stale your kill moves. Also, angle your fsmash up by leaving up on the control stick pressed while fsmashing with the c-stick. You can also angle it up by charging your fsmash then pointing the control stick up or own. When you angle it up, it gets stronger and does a bit more damage.

* You're dairing too much. That attack is very punishable if it gets predictable, and you used it in a very predictable way. Instead try safer aerials like fair or bair, and only use dair as punishment when Yoshi's using an attack.

* You didn't take advantage of Kirby's fast attacks and low cooldown. His tilts have an average time of 25 frames so you can tilt and move fast, and the aerials have an average of 40 frames so if you do one you can do another one once it finishes. I saw you jump and bair, but then doing nothing while you fell down. This got you hit a lot by Yoshi.

* You used a lot of upB at the start. That's a bad idea, the attack isn't safe at all. Campers always beat it, and fast characters can do very bad OoS things to you if they run towards you and shield it, since it takes a while to end. Try not to use it as an attack while there's a chance the opponent might catch you for it.


I can't help you with anything else, sorry. Wifi isn't good for us to criticize, the lag gets in the way of too many things. You can't SDI stuff right, or DI well, or powershield/airdodge consistently, and you keep buffering things when you don't mean to and it might look like a mistake you made when it was actually the game that buffered it against your will. Hope what I said helps you out though.

 

[DRDN]

does Tilting the fsmash up make its reach a bit shorter a few times when ive done it it seemed to stop just short and I think it would have hit on the end if I didn't tilt it

and next time I face someone offline Ill try to get that video up here because my wifi has more smashes and a few of them are supposed to be rising bairs but come out fsmashes

 

[Kewkky]

The range on fsmash is still the same, but it hits higher because you aimed it up, and it's stronger and does more damage. The angle you change sends opponents in almost different directions too, down-angled fsmash is good for setting up gimping scenarios while up-angled fsmash is best for killing early/trading hits with aerials/frame-trapping landings/punishing misses.

Try not to fsmash too much though. The attack takes a while to end, and you move forward with it which means the opponent can do anything to you if they shield it.

 

[fromundaman]

Actually Kewk, I think Up-angled has slightly less horizontal range, but more vertical. However, keep in mind that while Up-angled kills earlier, it sends them at the corner and is easier to DI. Against foes that die easily off the sides or get gimped easily, tilting it down is actually better since it's harder to DI (Plus it shieldpokes.).

 

[Kewkky]

It sends them at the corner so they can't DI as best. What you want to do when you DI is be sent diagonally, because the distance you have to go through diagonally is bigger than horizontally or vertically. A DI'd non-angled fsmash is DI'd so that opponents can go diagonal thus surviving longer, but an up-angled already throws them in that direction AND is stronger, so opponents tend to die earlier because they have nowhere to DI. In either of those smashes the opponent can slow down their momentum by DI'ing so there's no difference there, but they die faster to up-angled fsmashes than non-angled ones.

Yep, down-angled fsmashes for killing horizontally! I use it when I'm near the edge of the stage, where the shieldpush of my fsmash (in case they shield it) pushes them offstage so they can't do anything about it, and where if they don't shield they're too close to the blastzone already to survive.

 

[fromundaman]

Well, it depends on where on the stage you are, but yeah, the corners are farther away than the sides too. Also, when I played my MK friend a lot, he died way earlier from down angled than normal or up-angled because he said he couldn't DI/momentum cancel it as well, so I'm pretty much going off of that XD

 

[Kewkky]

I guess it depends on whether a character can momentum cancel or not, like G&W, DK, MK with his glide, etc. Generally it kills faster than normal-angled fsmash. Down-angled fsmash is good and I deny nothing, I use it a lot on opponents trying to come back to the stage. :|

 

[Kewkky]

So as a means to organize everything a bit more, I have made the Kirby Video Archive thread a critique thread as well! If you have a video you'd like to get critiqued head on over there and post it, it will be seen soon enough (just like here), and if you have an MU question then direct it to the Kirby General Discussion or the Match-Up Thread.

Thank you, and have a good day.