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The Official Marth Video Critique Thread

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UWOcho

UWOcho

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-you need to work on your spacing. a lot of your shfairs end up with you right in his face.
-use tilts more and (MUCH) less smashes (especially fsmashes)
-learn fthrow-fsmash on mk
-dont challenge mk's glide attack with a fair. you'll never win. shield it and wait for the dsmash (if he is predictable) or counter if you're sure he will glide attack.
-mix up your ledge recoveries. shfair-ing immediately every time won't work against better players (and even against these guys).
-jabs are also great to bring into your game. they space amazingly and can add some pressure. as well, they're not as laggy as ftilts. And they're definitely not as laggy as fsmashes. Or dsmashes.
-jab fox out of his phantasm move. it'll allow you to punish him every time.

just some other random mistakes, such as botching the ds to the ledge allowing fox to usmash you. or mk to kill you..

thats all for now.
 
3xSwords

3xSwords

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Sora_Kurisu said:
Hey can you guys please critique my marth please. Thanks in advance.
Katsu(Marth) vs. Tina(Fox)
Click to expand...
0:13 - You punish Fox for blindly charging at you with DB however you try to mix it up and it turns into a perfect moment for your opponent to punish. This happens many times throughout the match and sometimes it's better to just do normal DB instead of trying to use different variations.

0:15 - Lucky for you, she (Tina, so I'll assume your opponent is female) punishes with an SH dair which gave you more than enough time to shield it. However you in turn miss the punishment. Gets you combo'd for 30% Need to space and time DS OoS better.

0:26 - Again incomplete DB

0:36 - Incomplete DB > U-tilt ??? Gets you punished for gambling. Just complete the stupid thing already >.<

0:48 - For all your f-smash usage this was the one you shouldn't have missed. And you... Dash attacked.

0:59 - I don't see too many situations where you are getting up from the ledge, but that one was pretty bad. Not only is ledge hop fair generally a bad option that can be easily punished, you also spaced incorrectly not even tipping it. Luckily your opponent u-smash OoS to kill you.

1:05 - Not only did you mistime and misspace the edge guard, you also screwed up the recovery and got yourself killed.

1:25 - No DS OoS???

1:30 - You keep always use fair while getting back onto the stage, and it's starting to get a bit predictable.

1:39 - There is almost no need to spot dodge against Fox's aerials. Because one most of them are multi-hit, second they are always followed up by a ground attack of some sort, and third you have DS OoS. Basically anytime Fox hits your shield with an aerial you should be DS OoS'ing his **** up.

1:41 - Again....

1:47 - You are actually properly spacing your aerials and you catch them and you finish off with DB... oh wait you don't....

2:10 - DB as an approach is not good.

2:15 - OMG YES!!!!!

2:17 - *Sigh*

2:37 - This is basically how the match up should be played and it's the only time I see you do this, in the whole match. As you can see it racks up a good 35% and is very effective. Next time play like this and also tipper your attacks.

2:46 - Yeah dair spike ftw

Overview: You still lack basics of Marth, such as spacing properly (saw almost no tippers), using DS OoS, and proper DB usage. Your punishment game was generally, really bad. A lot of these situations you not only failed to punish but you completely reversed the situation into your opponent's favor such as missing DS OoS or Dash attacking the illusion recovery. Sometimes you hit them but stopped midway and turned it back into neutral or an advantageous situation for your opponent, incomplete DB. You are lucky that the Fox failed to take advantage most of the time, but the match should have been closer than it really was which really is not how it should be.

Also in the match-up itself, a key problem was your DB'ing. More than 70% of the time it was incomplete. Not only did you as a result lose out on more % (A LOT more % in this case) and putting your opponent in a bad position, Fox is screwed off the stage, but you give your opponent the chance to punish your post lag due to the minimal hitstun of your incomplete DB strikes. Stopping DB purposefully and punishing your opponent is good however doing it over and over again is not. You must master basics before you become tricky. (Not to mention your general lack of tilts and aerials)

Also you lack general knowledge of this match up. Against Fox you can basically win simply with Fair and Dtilt. Properly spaced Fox has barely any ways to get around your fair from the air and dtilt from the ground and if they do, you just shield and DS OoS. Basically your initial defense is your range and then shielding is like your second option. However you not only allowed Fox to penetrate this zone very easily, by shielding every time, you also did the job for him by mistiming or misspacing aerials and running in with DB as an approach. This match should really be Fox trying to get into your zone and failing because of your superior range.
 
Punishment Divine

Punishment Divine

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SSD said:
okay, first time posting videos here...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3v-65Ca8n4Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uytix0mnNus

yeah. that's it. don't bring up stale moves.
Click to expand...
I'll say it before anyone else does, we absolutely 100% cannot judge skill on wifi. I feel if I were to judge you based on that match, you wouldn't get an accurate basis for where you need improvement because that lag, and in that match especially, messes with spacing and timing soooo much and makes it impossible to punish anything. EDIT: *** Steel beat me to it q_q

Also, if someone could answer this question, is there any way to upload replays from an SD card onto a computer and upload them somehow? I do have a card reader, just not sure how/if I could do that. About time you guys get to see my Marth anyways :p
 
feardragon64

feardragon64

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SSD said:
okay, first time posting videos here...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3v-65Ca8n4Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uytix0mnNus

yeah. that's it. don't bring up stale moves.
Click to expand...
-Try not to post wifi matches if you can help it
-Fsmash spammed
-Needs more dtilt, dancing blades and fair
-Try spot dodging every so often
-Short hop(maybe that was just lag)
-Have some sort of game plan
-Read the stickies

I think you should visit the basics. Read the stickies, learn what moves are marth's good moves and use them more. Right now it just seems like you're attack with whatever move will end up hitting them because they're in that general direction(with the exception of utilt and fsmash spam)
 
SSD

SSD

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Steel2nd said:
why do you want a critique in something so laggy?
Click to expand...
because the two people i know in my area that have any idea how to play smash are total scrubs, thus leaving wifi as my only real way to play a serious(non item/horrible stage) game?

and all you did was fsmash
Click to expand...
until it actually came to hitting the other guy. Out of 48 moves I hit with, 13 were fsmashes.


Also, if someone could answer this question, is there any way to upload replays from an SD card onto a computer and upload them somehow? I do have a card reader, just not sure how/if I could do that. About time you guys get to see my Marth anyways :p
Click to expand...
if you mean converting the raw replay file into something readable by most programs and such, no.

If you send me a replay file, I can record it and send you a .mov file, so you can do whatever you like with it.
 
Punishment Divine

Punishment Divine

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SSD said:
If you send me a replay file, I can record it and send you a .mov file, so you can do whatever you like with it.
Click to expand...
Okay I'll keep you in mind ^_^ thanks

As for no players around, I'm sure they exist. I thought the same and then I looked in the Regional Zone. They're there, but you have to find them. I've made quite a few friends through smash.
 
UWOcho

UWOcho

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apparently replay files are just logs of actions performed by parties in a match. That's why you can't put the replay file on the computer and then turn it into a movie file. You need to use a video capture cards to get the replay from replay form on the wii to movie form on the computer
 
Darxmarth23

Darxmarth23

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I guess you play better than some of the other ppl who posted vids here.(you know who you are)

I see you have read some of teh stickies.

6.5/10
 
T

TheRazaman

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Darxmarth23 said:
I guess you play better than some of the other ppl who posted vids here.(you know who you are)

I see you have read some of teh stickies.

6.5/10
Click to expand...
Wow, that was very quick lol. Thanks.

I would say the things I need to work on most are:
Proper spacing at all times, especially so that I don't get oos grabbed b/c i mis-space a fair.
Gimping/Ledge game
Not approaching with double fair, EVER.


Oh, and I would say go dark green color now. But i'm biased, its my fav.
 
Darxmarth23

Darxmarth23

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TheRazaman said:
Wow, that was very quick lol. Thanks.

I would say the things I need to work on most are:
Proper spacing at all times, especially so that I don't get oos grabbed b/c i mis-space a fair.
Gimping/Ledge game
Not approaching with double fair, EVER.
Click to expand...

Its nice to know that you know what to do.

dont use random atks. D tilt. DS

You have no idea how many ppl don't.

Good job, man.
 
3xSwords

3xSwords

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Sometimes bad spacing costs you like the classic SH double fair that gets you shield grabbed. You full hop too much not only that but you continue your momentum so you are above DK. If you are going to FH than at least retreat or else DK could really punish you for that. Also you air dodge too much. This is generally after you space a fair incorrectly and is almost always punished. Solution? Space properly when hitting their shield and SH while doing it basically avoid the situation altogether. You also don't juggle properly. It's always a FH uair that misses most of the time, and you never adequately punished your opponent for always Air dodging.

Your use of moves was also too obvious or inappropriate for the situation. For example you used Fair for like everything even punishing and you almost always approached with this. Where is the nair (or bair or uair to a lesser extent)? One dtilt? No DS Out of Shield? You used ftilt rather randomly. You only want to really use this move if you see a SH approach coming, otherwise don't, b/c it's horrible on the block. Also you randomly attacked the opposite direction. I distinctly remember charging SB the other way that let's DK literally just walk up, grab, cargo and stage spike.

Ledge guarding was alright. DK used the get up attack everytime except once. You could have definitely punished him worse for that than what you did. Such as f-smashing and resetting the situation or u-smashing and maximizing damage given. Also edge guarding was lacking. You had one attempt at a dair spike which missed. Instead use the bottom part of the fair's swing arc to strike DK where he is vulnerable during his upB. You can do this quite often as you will continually reset the situation.

Anyway, if the DK won by literally just smash attacking his way to victory on his last stock, then you should know something went wrong.
 
T

TheRazaman

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Yea, I have no idea what happened the time I did SB in the wrong direction lol.

So, I should also work on approaching from the ground and is Dtilt is the best for ground approaches, or is Utilt since it has a pretty good arc? Try to do those Fair/Dtilt walls? I don't really do Dtilt as much as i should. I try to tell myself to dtilt instead of fsmash most of the time, but it doesn't always register. Dtilt followed up by DB or Fair is what i usually do whenever i get a poke in. Is that advised or should i generally just try and keep a wall setup? I know its a hard to answer question since everything is situational and based off reading your opponent.

Also, what is the best way to gimp a DK off the edge? I'm awful with timing the dair on his upB. And, it seems a bit risky to try and counter it all the time, idk.

Thank you both for your responses.
 
3xSwords

3xSwords

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TheRazaman said:
Yea, I have no idea what happened the time I did SB in the wrong direction lol.

So, I should also work on approaching from the ground and is Dtilt is the best for ground approaches, or is Utilt since it has a pretty good arc? Try to do those Fair/Dtilt walls? I don't really do Dtilt as much as i should. I try to tell myself to dtilt instead of fsmash most of the time, but it doesn't always register. Dtilt followed up by DB or Fair is what i usually do whenever i get a poke in. Is that advised or should i generally just try and keep a wall setup? I know its a hard to answer question since everything is situational and based off reading your opponent.

Also, what is the best way to gimp a DK off the edge? I'm awful with timing the dair on his upB. And, it seems a bit risky to try and counter it all the time, idk.

Thank you both for your responses.
Click to expand...
Utilt is not a good approach move.

The most generic situation:
Basically you set up your most basic wall of fair and dtilt. If you get a dtilt in then you follow up with Dash>DB because Fair takes too long and that transitions into an edge guarding situation. Against DK like I said just rack up damage with fair until you get into your groove and feel that you can land the finisher which in this case is the dair.
 
¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯

¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯

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OK Ankoku, I'm gonna give you an overview of the first Wolf Match.

You played OK IMO, you got a pretty lucky SD on his part on his first stock which gave you the lead you retained for the rest of the match, which helped you out.

-When you were being blaster camped at the beginning I don't think you tried to SHAD, and you got hit a few times for trying to PS everything, try to mix it up a bit more I guess.

-Near the end, he kept hitting you wit his charging Dsmashes, I mean you had to have seen them, but he kept messing you up on the timing and instead of trying to Counter them you could have just Faired him, which you eventually did, but you could've done it earlier.

-Great job gimping him on his 2nd stock

-Around 1:40 he kept messing you up by rolling and eventually got you to DS, and then he could punish you. Don't let him do this to you, Dtilt or Jab him out of the ending lag of his roll, or just jump out of there to avoid that, don't make mistakes like that.

-Don't be afraid to be aggressive while trying to juggle, it seemed like around 2:18 you let him come back down, but one of Marth's greatest strengths is his juggling potential, and you could have gotten some extra damage on him.


OVERALL:

You have a good Marth, but you made a few too many mistakes in this match, just work on minimizing the amount of mistakes you make per match and you'll become a better player. Also don't be afraid to be more aggro, it seemed like you were afraid to be throughout this match.

Random thing:

There's a Chicago tournament coming up, can you go? It's gonna be pretty big, last time Lain, NoJ, Omni, and Anther came, it'd be cool if you could too.
 
3xSwords

3xSwords

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I saw the third match

Here's some general critique:

Your approaches are virtually the same throughout the match. Every time you go into the air its an immediate fair. The only thing different about it is if you Full hop a lot. Most of the time you were approaching on the ground it was dash>DB (excluding when you were punishing)

F-smash way too much. 1st Stock Hero lived til 150% before he died. Had you saved the f-smash it would have killed a lot earlier. Also in early in that third stock all you did was randomly throw out f-smashes at Hero. Very unsafe and not smart either: for one you weren't going to kill Hero, two you want to again save it for the kill and three if you miss you are very punishable.

A lot of these times were basically when you were ledge guarding however, f-smash is not a very good ledge guard. Many times you could have just used a jab to force a reaction and then turned around and grabbed an reset the situation, since Mario did ledge jump > Air dodge almost every time from the ledge.

I saw hardly any dtilt's at all and you really need to work on juggling. Especially if Mario is FF air dodging every time and you still don't punish. Lack of tilts in general.

Generally unsafe too, I get the feeling you're just chasing Mario around and just throwing out attacks. For example, when he is shielding you run into him and u-smash, not the greatest move for such a situation. Also your shieldbreakers were very random and didn't seem to be thought out. Every time you missed and the one time you hit you got killed also.

Overview: You won. Great. However you need to rethink how you play. Your general gameplay is very stale as in you do the same things over and over again, granted it's working but sooner or later Hero's going to learn what he can punish then you'll be in trouble. (And Hero you really need to punish more severely for missed f-smashes and over used attack patterns). Then when you do mix up, they are usually very unsafe or too situational tactics. Such as hyphen smashing shields or using SB multiple times. You do not employ some of your most reliable tilts and traps wisely and you seem too eager to attack and thus fail to consider the opponent's option of dodging your attacks.
 
SonicX580

SonicX580

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I watched a little bit of the Meta Knight and why not use counter on tornado? why not use d-smash it's very fast compared to f-smash IMO.
 
Zankoku

Zankoku

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SonicX580 said:
I watched a little bit of the Meta Knight and why not use counter on tornado? why not use d-smash it's very fast compared to f-smash IMO.
Click to expand...
Who the **** are you? If Meta Knight is tornadoing I'll do whatever the **** I want.

That includes

Dancing Blade
Dolphin Slash
Shieldbreaker
Counter
Down Air
Tipper Forward Smash

Marth like... doesn't get hit by Tornado. Counter is pretty much the least "**** you" of those responses, lol.
 
feardragon64

feardragon64

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Ankoku said:
Who the **** are you? If Meta Knight is tornadoing I'll do whatever the **** I want.

That includes

Dancing Blade
Dolphin Slash
Shieldbreaker
Counter
Down Air
Tipper Forward Smash

Marth like... doesn't get hit by Tornado. Counter is pretty much the least "**** you" of those responses, lol.
Click to expand...
You forgot untippered forward smash
 
Zankoku

Zankoku

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Um, try actually sweetspotting the ledge with your Up+B. It's not exactly hard, you know. Also, you play really slowly and frankly it's incredibly clear how Wifi this Wifi game is. Don't dtilt so much once you've actually landed a hit with one. Try DIing up against killing blows more often. Also you seem to have a habit of spotdodging repeatedly when standing really close to Meta Knight. THis is like, extremely bad. DO NOT STAY AT THE LEDGE AGAINST META KNIGHT. Seriously, the chances of actually hitting him compared to getting completely wrecked by him is like 1 to 30.
 
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