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The Official Marth Video Critique Thread

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Z

zCasanova

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Yttuty

Yttuty

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zCasanova said:
Grand finals from this weekend:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVukQLg7O1I&feature=channel - R1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fV_WgaoXZKs&feature=channel - R2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSOfcekKgzA&feature=channel - R3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVOqo0c1o9U&feature=channel - R4&R5

Doesn't matter which one is critiqued, just need to know what else I can implement into my game to help with the Snake match-up. Short of completely outplaying the other player, I'm at a loss.
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I only saw the first match

Your marth is fine but you should be a little more agressive, also, when you jump to attack someone, DON'T do a fair instantly, be patient and wait until he dodges so you can hit him, that's a cheap mindgame but it is useful ;P
remember to practice your dairs, you died because u missed and that's bad x_x
 
feardragon64

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zCasanova said:
Grand finals from this weekend:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVukQLg7O1I&feature=channel - R1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fV_WgaoXZKs&feature=channel - R2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSOfcekKgzA&feature=channel - R3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVOqo0c1o9U&feature=channel - R4&R5

Doesn't matter which one is critiqued, just need to know what else I can implement into my game to help with the Snake match-up. Short of completely outplaying the other player, I'm at a loss.
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Some habits that are worth mentioning so you don't do them too often....

You roll backwards a lot. From what I can TELL it's when you're expecting an attack to come. Try and think of a better option like retreating fair or something. I'm sure you can figure out what to do instead.

You're relying on dancing blade a bit too much. Dancing blade is great and everything, but the mentality you're using it with is to spam it at almost every "my fair didn't land", "I'm too close" or a "**** what should I do" moment. You automatically just resort to dancing blades if things didn't go as you intended and you're near them. Mix it up a bit. Even dancing blades needs to be renewed. Remember, I'm not saying stop using it entirely, just recognize when you could have been doing something for more damage because DB was stale.

Marth's standing grab range is great and all, but you tend to overestimate it. Just something to keep in mind. Consider jabbing if you're not certain it'll reach, especially since that Snake kept spot dodging them you could just throw out another jab.


Anyways, you had pretty good spacing I think. Also you're ledge get-up to dolphin slashing the eager Snake was a great play. You're double jump mix-ups are also really good, though I would personally say you come close to over doing them just a tad. Overall you play patiently most of the time. Still, there are times where you're somewhat too passive. Patient does not mean passive, same as I'm sure you've heard a thousand times, passive does not mean defensive. If you're at a low percent and you're falling with them right below you, get out of the way! Don't just DI away. I could be wrong but I think sometimes you get a little too caught up in the "passive" style and end up not doing things you should be doing. I could be wrong about that last one though.

I guess my last note is that you absolutely love the air. Try working on your ground game a bit. Dtilts are love.


Hope I'm not too rusty and I didn't make myself look like a complete idiot with that post. lol
 
BanjoKazooiePro

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OmegaXF said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gufOySyhoj8&feature=PlayList&p=6B8904018D1504A3&index=26

Against IC's what are some good ways to stop their camping?
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Eh...usually when I play IC's I just try to use every move I can think of that won't get me grabbed. That pretty much limits me to Dtilt and Fair most of the time. If you can kill nana, though, you've got an easy stock. DB can be shield grabbed pretty easily for the most part, so it's not really advised in this matchup. IC's don't have great grab range as far as I'm aware, though. I guess all you can really do is space them out.
 
Steel

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roger i looked at your video for a bit.. your defensive style is making you give up way too many advantegous situations you may have been put into. you willingly gave up stage positioning to let Ike regain his composure. marth is one of the best attackers in the game, learn to stop running away.

omega im not sure if constantly running away on the platforms is the best approach to the match, i may take a closer look at it later.
 
Steel

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pretty much. if you corner ike don't just retreat yourself. pressure him while maintaining safety
 
OmegaXF

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BanjoKazooiePro said:
Eh...usually when I play IC's I just try to use every move I can think of that won't get me grabbed. That pretty much limits me to Dtilt and Fair most of the time. If you can kill nana, though, you've got an easy stock. DB can be shield grabbed pretty easily for the most part, so it's not really advised in this matchup. IC's don't have great grab range as far as I'm aware, though. I guess all you can really do is space them out.
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I should be in their face more but It's pretty hard especially since I have to fear for my stock at 0% Me personally would never DTilt against IC's i just seems very risky especially if it gets blocked. But I see where your coming from though.

Rog~er said:
doesn't anyone care to critique? i had my video up for 3 days now and not one single comment. =(

maybe is because of the low quality?

...
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I only watched the first one. but I don't like the Defensive Marth styles out there. But u were lieniet on him. In fact against Ike all you really gatta do is spam Fair and don't stop moving. Once he gets on the ledge Counter his Aether. Counter whatever he throws at you especially on the ledge. What was funny about the match was that he was way more aggresive than you and he took control more often in the situations that he should have died for when doing that though.
Just don't be THAT defensive at least against Ike...

Steel2nd said:
roger i looked at your video for a bit.. your defensive style is making you give up way too many advantegous situations you may have been put into. you willingly gave up stage positioning to let Ike regain his composure. marth is one of the best attackers in the game, learn to stop running away.

omega im not sure if constantly running away on the platforms is the best approach to the match, i may take a closer look at it later.
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I can't wait for more answers then. Only thing that hit me hard in your IC's match was the counter to the Ice Breath. It desynche's them when they start camping but I really feel that there was a better way to approach though.....
 
Rog~er

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really? i thought i was in control the whole match until i got too comfortable after i took Ike's second stock off. i also thought i was being really aggressive, doesn't seem to be the case though. i guess what you guys are trying to say is to give my opponent no space at all. i'll work on it.

thanks.
 
Mighty_mo76

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Wow, ive not been on the boards in a loong time. Its been like half a year. The marth boards have changed. I see Steel2nd finally got some respect and his name is getting bigger. I don't see Emblem Lord.


sry, ignore this nostalgic post.


continue with your thread.
 
BBoyindo

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Mighty_mo76 said:
Wow, ive not been on the boards in a loong time. Its been like half a year. The marth boards have changed. I see Steel2nd finally got some respect and his name is getting bigger. I don't see Emblem Lord.


sry, ignore this nostalgic post.


continue with your thread.
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Emblem lord has... sniff... left. Pierce and Steel have been trained by him to follow him up.
 
¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯

¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯

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Halberd, you're good but I saw 2 kinda big flaws in your game:

1. You don't Dtilt... Dtilt is one of Marth's best shield pressure moves, and it's good for setups, you'd use DB or Ftilt in a situation where Dtilt would be better.

2. You shouldn't use the green variation on the last hit of DB, you'll get punished, luckily against that Ike it didn't capitalize.

I'm not trying to criticize you, you have a good Marth and you use Uair and Nair quite well. Just keep what I said in mind while you're playing.
 
OverLade

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S.O.L.I.D. said:
Halberd, you're good but I saw 2 kinda big flaws in your game:

1. You don't Dtilt... Dtilt is one of Marth's best shield pressure moves, and it's good for setups, you'd use DB or Ftilt in a situation where Dtilt would be better.

2. You shouldn't use the green variation on the last hit of DB, you'll get punished, luckily against that Ike it didn't capitalize.

I'm not trying to criticize you, you have a good Marth and you use Uair and Nair quite well. Just keep what I said in mind while you're playing.
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Its all good, that's exactly what I wanted to hear. One of my friends also told me that I needed more Dtilt as well. Concerning the last hit of DB I only kept doing it because he wasn't tap DIing out of it.

I'll make an effort with that. I notice in other matchups that DB gets punished quite a bit.
 
ZHMT

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The third hit of dancing blade downwards is your safest retreat out of it, if you note he has a shield up.

I watched a few of your matches during class, your Marth is good. Like Solid said, more dtilt. Dtilt combos into db, which upwards leads to juggle traps.
 
V

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RedHalberd said:
I gots new vids vs. the best Ike in Florida. I adapt after the first match so keep that in mind...

What moves should I use more and use less?

Match 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omd1SoRxQac

Match 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbINKpiBwj0

Match 3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwNlnzEP_kk

Match 4 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6K2puqkN6E
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i seen the 2nd vid..you are good..but in some parts you used the DB when you could've used Dtilt, like SOLID said also, which is good to use aganist a shield and it pressures
also, you could use the Dsmash instead of DB when your opponent is open, it's a good punisher
lol don't underestimate my critique, im good
 
OverLade

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ViCTORiOUSViC said:
i seen the 2nd vid..you are good..but in some parts you used the DB when you could've used Dtilt, like SOLID said also, which is good to use aganist a shield and it pressures
also, you could use the Dsmash instead of DB when your opponent is open, it's a good punisher
lol don't underestimate my critique, im good
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Dsmash is too punisheable, especially against a character like Ike >_>.

I generally just kill with Nair because it's easier to land from a Fthrow and when tipped kills at absurdly low percentages.
 
V

ViCTORiOUSViC

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and that's where your sidesteps come in
since Ike is slow, you can sidestep an attack he does that has a lot of lag like his Fsmash, and use Dsmash
easier to tipper with it too
and sometimes they can predict your Fthrow to Nair, so i say Dsmash is a good alternative
 
OverLade

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ViCTORiOUSViC said:
and that's where your sidesteps come in
since Ike is slow, you can sidestep an attack he does that has a lot of lag like his Fsmash, and use Dsmash
easier to tipper with it too
and sometimes they can predict your Fthrow to Nair, so i say Dsmash is a good alternative
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Sidestepping against a smart Ike is a horrible idea....as is sidestepping in general.

If you sidestep a Fsmash and they charge it, you're dead, period, and the only other one of Ikes moves that you can legitly sidestep is Ftilt. And Ryo, being an extremely smart player used it very conditionally. He almost never even used Fsmash or Dsmash either.

If they start airdodging my Nairs I'll just predict the airdodge and tip and Uair to juggle them.

But if I'm gonna change my game, I'd like to use LESS laggy punishable moves, (hence more Dtilt instead of Side B) rather than add random Dsmashes and hope I get lucky.
 
Steel

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Ignore Victorious' dsmash advice completely.

But seriously, your entire game seems to revolve around landing that dancing blade and you aren't going about it safely. You punish with it which is good, but you often just approach with it.. something that should have gotten you more punished than it did vs ryo.

I didn't see enough fair and dtilt zoning which leads into your dancing blade rapeage. Force them to make a mistake and then use it. At the moment you're using it far too liberally.

You also tried to land the grab too much, sometimes you would land a SHFF fair and then try to combo it to grab when it actually combos into dancing blade. And when you did successfully grab as a punisher there would have been more damaging options.

Overall your Marth needs work on control and proper body/sword placement. Too many times you put yourself in a stupid position and got yourself hit by something stupid.
 
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AlMoStLeGeNdArY

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OverLade

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Steel2nd said:
Ignore Victorious' dsmash advice completely.

But seriously, your entire game seems to revolve around landing that dancing blade and you aren't going about it safely. You punish with it which is good, but you often just approach with it.. something that should have gotten you more punished than it did vs ryo.

I didn't see enough fair and dtilt zoning which leads into your dancing blade rapeage. Force them to make a mistake and then use it. At the moment you're using it far too liberally.

You also tried to land the grab too much, sometimes you would land a SHFF fair and then try to combo it to grab when it actually combos into dancing blade. And when you did successfully grab as a punisher there would have been more damaging options.

Overall your Marth needs work on control and proper body/sword placement. Too many times you put yourself in a stupid position and got yourself hit by something stupid.
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Alright sounds good.

I just recently decided to 3rd marth so I play a pretty limited style. I don't use moves I dont feel comfortable with, which is bad because apparently there are plenty of moves I should be using in place of other moves.

I'll work on those things.

edit:

Yes I did the wombo combo vid XD.
 
F

Fizzle

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Faster?

Fastfall more, learn to abuse platforms, and react quicker oos

Other stuff:

Less fullhop fair, less falling bair, no counter, less dsmash/fsmash, less rolling (you're not Lucario anymore, Phil)

Your main problem is you aren't capitalizing on advantages. Almost every time you shielded something you either rolled away or did nothing. Learn to use your oos better. When you got Bowser in your tipper zone, you gave up the ground by either rolling away or spotdodging nothing. Pressure him.

Props on the Phil's Lab music btw.
 
phi1ny3

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lol yeah, I need to stop rolling backward, faster characters with like a boost smash can punish (among some other things, like aerials and such). I also think I should've used less bair, although most of those were me failing with the retreating fair motion, it's hard to get down when you don't get much practice.
 
The Marth

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Finally got some videos up, even though they are.... wi-fi... >_<
Lol but here's some vids from me vs. AlMoStLeGeNdArY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paRU--3yLdk&fmt=18
(In depth Critique on this one, please?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7K5ked0Yvk4&fmt=18*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7i9JFCUzFM&fmt=18*

*Just general discussion on these two.
-----------------------------------------------
Thank you in advance!

EDIT: If it's not too much trouble can you post critique for AlmostLegendary too?
 
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