Data The Official Kirby Match-up Thread

[Pink Reaper]

We're all very lazy.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

that's why vs pichu all you do is turn around at the edge and mash up-tilt as kirby.

 

[BunBun]

Here's the matchup list for Kirby, created from discussion among the majority of active Kirby mains:

Fox 100-0
Marth 65/35
Falco 70-30 (40-60 with lasers lolololol)
Falcon 55-45
Sheik 65-35 :shiek:
Jiggs 65-35
Peach 60-40
Ice Climbers 60-40
Samus 60-40
Ganon 65-45
Dr. Mario 65-35
Mario 70-30 (mario angled fsmash > kirby)
Pikachu 60-40
DK 70-30
Luigi 75-25
Link 55-45
Zelda 55-45
Mewtwo 65-35 :mewtwo:
Roy 45-55
Young Link 65-35
G&W 70-30
Yoshi 50-50 EVEN
Pichu 35-65
Bowser 50-50 EVEN
Ness 55-45
Kirby 0-0 DUMB




t3h_Icy or whatever your name is, here.

 

[t3h Icy]

Thanks a lot guys. <3 Sorry for being pushy. ;;>_>

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

WTF at pichu vs kirby that's a joke if i've ever seen one. vs peach, ice climbers and samus i'm totally confused with how you just that s***.

 

[Triple R]

I don't really care about pichu lol, but peach and samus being that close to even seems a little off. Ice Climbers I can agree though. The first actual Ice climber I played in tourney was this summer and he was wobbling me and I still won the set. Peach and Samus both have to the tools to keep Kirby out, and even when Kirby gets it he's likely to get ***** lol. I've beaten my fair share of both characters, but I still think it's harder than 40-60.

 

[Dragoon Fighter]

I think Marth is equal to or worse than fox and Kirby does not have an advantage against Roy or Pichu but other then that I agree with bunbun.

 

[PrinceOfDalaam]

Yeah that looks about right, except lol @ ganon matchup.

 

[BunBun]

I have a metric f*ckton of Samus experience, and it's just not that bad. Campy samus can be a bit worse, but even then, Kirby can apply sone decent pressure on samus and can effectively gain stage control.

Marth used to be ungodly hard, but wavedash oos has made it manageable. It still sucks, but I think luigi is harder.
And fox is just far and away the worst matchup.


Pichu gets molested by Kirby. You cam try to claim anything you want ICG, but the truth is the truth.

Peach is also not that bad. PR and I talked about this, because he continually gets ***** by PS. We decided it was just a personal thing. Kirby has the right tools to kill Peach, and has the ability to both stop bad match momentum and put good pressure on Peach.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

kirby does seem to beat roy barely I saw bunbun vs ripple WTf up-throw for most of his kills.

marth should suck a** for kirby he has no semi decent projectile, compareable range, recovery, combos, or anything but a sheild and decent WD.


ohI hate you sometimes bunbun I will camp you so hard next time i'll drop my balls. also bunbun You were better than my backwards pichu I mean f*** I use side-B for an approach for s***s sake. Plus I know I should've jolted and baired more and tryed to notice the whole hop patterns.

 

[Dragoon Fighter]

kirby does seem to beat roy barely I saw bunbun vs ripple WTf up-throw for most of his kills.

marth should suck a** for kirby he has no semi decent projectile, compareable range, recovery, combos, or anything but a sheild and decent WD.


ohI hate you sometimes bunbun I will camp you so hard next time i'll drop my balls. also bunbun You were better than my backwards pichu I mean f*** I use side-B for an approach for s***s sake. Plus I know I should've jolted and baired more and tryed to notice the whole hop patterns.

Jealousy is one of the seven deadly sins you know.

Just saying not that this is important to what you said or anything...

Bunbun should be flattered that he has an arch nemesis like IGC, I am not sure why he should appreciate someone someone wishing the worst for him but I guess that is just the competitive world for you. HA! smash... is... awesome... .

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

I don't really like Tommy but in some ways I do like how he knows how to taunt.

Bunbun just makes me want to ruin smash.

 

[BunBun]

ICG makes me want to move back to IN

<3

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

I spread love better than the beatles for smashboards

 

[JPOBS]

i'm interested in hearing how kirby goes 30:70 with falco, 40:60 wth samus, and 35:65. I dont know a whole ot about kirby but know about falco and sheik, and im interested i how kirby can possibly not get absolutely destroyed by those two. samus, i just cant see being almost even but im open.

also, if ts not too much trouble, i'd like a little depth please. not just blanket tatements like "kirby has the tools to deal with X"

cheers.

 

[BunBun]

i'm interested in hearing how kirby goes 30:70 with falco, 40:60 wth samus, and 35:65. I dont know a whole ot about kirby but know about falco and sheik, and im interested i how kirby can possibly not get absolutely destroyed by those two. Samus, i just cant see being almost even but im open.

Also, if ts not too much trouble, i'd like a little depth please. Not just blanket tatements like "kirby has the tools to deal with x"

cheers.

kirby vs samus!

The main thing here is that there are two main types of samus players. There's "zomg why won't he approach?" players like hugs and then there are "wtf iceskating?!" players like oro and ihavespaceballs.

The matchup differs in how you approach and open them up to be brutally bumped by the pink punk you are.
My opinion of the matchup:
1st type of samus: Samus >> kirby
2nd type of samus: Samus > kirby

i'll start with the first type. These samus players generally stay grounded, maybe jumping occasionally to missile cancel 'when they feel like it', the pricks. Samus has no reason to approach kirby, and they know it. They'll stay in their shield when you get close, and wavedash back to ftilt, uptilt or fsmash, or even upb oos if you're stupid enough to position yourself there. When you do hit them while they're not in their shield, chances are they're crouch canceling your hit, which means you're about to get dsmashed or fsmashed.

How to approach:
I find that back air is not very useful here. Unless you tip it just right, you're going to eat some sort of counterattack, usually ftilt or utilt. Kirby getting hit by samus's utilt is akin to rihanna getting hit by chris brown: No one wants to see it, it's a terrible thing, but you know that ***** did something to deserve it.
Fair, however, is quite a bit more useful. Approach with it (don't kill me for saying that). Space it so that the first hit barely hits their shield, and move back a bit by the end so that the third hit does as well. You can wear down their shield/get them to wdback like this. If you manage to wear down their shield a bit to the point where you think you can poke with the third or fourth hit of the fair, go for it. Drift the fair in, landing directly in front of samus. If it pokes, get ready to follow up (most likely shield > wavedash oos to something). If not, crouch and wd back like a coward.
Chances are, this won't work more than once or twice, so mix things up with your approach. Bait that movement with an empty shorthop or early fair, and then land and approach on the ground (get ready to shield > wd oos) and grab her. Go read the "i grabbed the samus, now what?" section.
Grab a lot if possible. Kirby has a decent wavedash and a great grab range.
Feeling ballsy? Approach with an early/mid fullhop dair, preferably on their shield. Do it right and you'll get either an upb oos response or a wd back utilt response, both of which can be punished. Specifically, you want to time the dair so that you connect with the end of it, and don't have lag upon landing, and you want to aim it so you land in front of samus.
Never cross samus's shield.
Early dair on a ccing samus is actually not that bad. Try to not land, or else you'll eat a dsmash or fsmash if your shield doesn't come up in time (it probably won't). If you attempt it, most of the time drift a bit away from her, staying in front of her. If you want to be super super ballsy, land right behind her and try to get off that uptilt before her dsmash hits you. It will make her hit the ground and fall over. Get ready to shield her getup attack.
Kirby's ground moves are useless against a low % ccing samus. Grab is the only thing you should do on the ground until samus is above 70ish.

Yeah, basically be freaking careful. This matchup is a damage game to get her out of her useful ccing range (from 80ish most of what you do can move her enough where you can start to f her up). Avoid ys like the plague. Every stage that's good for you is good for her for the same reason, so take her to battlefield to at least lessen the variability of her recovery.
Get the ***** in the air.



Now, the second type of samus is easier to deal with, but if you don't do it right you'll get overwhelmed much more quickly than with the first type.
These guys like to be slippery and tricky, using samus's beatiful wavedash to waveland all over platforms and cover ground unpredictably and quickly. They want to open you up and get you into some goofy combo. Generally, they are much more aggressive than type 1, and play with a much less 'accrue damage > dsmash' based game. Platforms are playgrounds to these guys. Watch out for platform missile cancelling. Kirby's crouch can get around it easily, so just be careful while approaching.

How to approach:
I find being very, very aggressive is the best way of dealing with this type of samus. Just watch out for the inevitable cc when you hit them at lower percents.
Generally, they will either be approaching you or fscking around on the other side of the stage being pretty or missile cancelling. This type doesn't spend a ton of time in their shield. Chances are they'll bait you by coming close and wavedashing back repeatedly. If you respond, you get utilted or ftilted. If you don't, they mix it up and wavedash forward and fsmash or dtilt (> uair > nair/fair on platform). Be careful. Pre-empt if possible, or wait until you get a chance to grab.
If they're away from you, weave through missles and keep all the way under any platforms she's on or near. Eating a dsmash because your head stuck through the platform really, really sucks. Similarily, she can just wd drop off nair you. If she's on a platform and you get under her, bait her dsmash or read her dodge and then hit with a uair. It's godly in this matchup.
If she's on the ground, approach with fair or bair as stated in the first matchup, just be aware that the samus will most likely trade hits with you rather than put up their shield. Be smart about it.
Again, grab a lot. It's really good.
Ftilt is your friend. It will save you from a lot of stupid stuff samus can try, especially when she wavedashes towards you.

Honestly, racking up damage isn't hard on this type of samus. The hard part is doing it to her before she does it to you.

Do. Not. Get. Grabbed. Samus can combo kirby with a lot of stupid things from grabs. If you get thrown, do all you possibly can not to land on a platform. 90% of the time samus will try to techchase dair you on the platform.

Also, don't get hit by swd > dsmash. Seems unlikely, but **** you spaceballs.

Avoid ys. Avoid everything. Fd is decent to cut down platform stuff. Battlefield is your best non-fd neutral.


The rest of this applies to the samus matchup in general.

The "bunbun that sh*t shouldn't work" combo = incomplete fair + incomplete fair + uair.
In the air only, and di dependant, but you can adjust it quite a bit. Hit with the first two hits of the fair, drop it so the third doesn't connect and immediately rejump into another fair, hit with the first two hits and drop again, then immediately rejump to uair. It can **** samus offstage while she tries to recover. If they di out of it, then just hit them with the third hit of the fair. Theoretically you could link a few more fairs, but you want to get back to the stage, right? =p

how to kill samus: It's easy, ze!
Fsmash on stage at higher percents is fun....or...

Backair is your friend. Hit her off the stage, then jump out and do stuff to her recovery. It's really easy to kill samus when she's not in range of the stage with her grapple. Just go out and do my stupid combo then get back to the ledge. Or go out and dair her. Or stay on the ledge and refresh your invincibility, and backair her when she gets close.
If she grapples high or grapple cancels up, you can either attempt to backair her from the ledge or (and i recommend this second part), get on the ledge, get away from her nair either ftilt/backair her away if she tries to drift to the stage. If she goes low to sweetspot the ledge, just get on it or feign like you're going to. It will usually make her upb early so she can either get on the stage with it or hit you before you grab the ledge. Simply bair or dair her and grab the ledge.
If you get hit by the up b, do not try and tech it. You will airdodge and die. Just sayin'.

Never underestimate samus recovering. Kill her outright as much as you can. On fod, she can come from the very bottom all the way back up. No johns, mess up her grapple low and she's got about the same chance of making it back to the stage as tiger woods did of keeping his marriage.

Seriously, samus's recover is amazing, but you've got a ton of jumps to go out there and mess with it. Do it to your heart's content, just watch out for nair and the dair attempt.
Jumping out and trying to kirbycide is viable as long as you're sure that:
A) you can time your blast-zone jump and
b) you can make it back to the stage.

If you run out of jumps like a fool, or are almost out, or just know you won't make it back because you f*cked up messing with the space-***** during her recovery, a last ditch final cutter meteor is always a funny thing to try =3



"i grabbed samus, now what?":
Up throw.
Seriously.
Try to get her to land on a platform and then techchase her with uair or fair (and preferably my favorite combo).
I can't stress this part enough. I never see any of you kirby guys do this in your vid, but it's pretty good. Always waveland out of your upthrows. Once you do this, now you get action advantage instead of your enemy.

Never down throw. You'll get naird at, like, any percent.

If you're not near a platform, and the samus is above 15%ish, you can backthrow. You don't really get anything off of it. Upthrow is almost always the best option.

If you're feeling like a ****, you can try another one of my favorite things: Let them breakout of the fthrow and then reverse aerial hammer them. You can't get much off of it against samus, but it's pretty fscking funny.

. .

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

funny how kirby is like the only charcter to get punished for throwing someone with nearly everythrow.

kirby vs falco is easy they DON'T know what to do which is very important really because kirby he'll **** falco if he doesn't know what to do. if kirby gets a grab he should suck tech chase and get lasers and ****. but falco's don't avoid that like death, if falco gets sucked up he should FF dair shine into bair and kirby takes 40% is off stage and most likly lost his power.falco should use any move he has to hit kirby to stop the lasers. Keep up the pressure as falco know how to beat his suck and recovery.

but I think just me if falco really knows the match-up it's worse for kirby than pichu but really no knows it all the way so kirby will have an easier time

 

[BunBun]

So at some point the matchup thread is going to want real numbers. I vote we give them 100-0 for everything.

 

[Pink Reaper]

I vote that it doesnt really matter because no matter what numbers we give them someone who's never actually played kirby in their life will come in and say "No way, Kirby/x is obviously 20/80 cus kirby is garbage, also Pichu > Ness"

Im basically talking about m2k.

 

[BunBun]

And everyone else

 

[Pink Reaper]

Once again there was a reason i didnt actually try with any of those numbers lol.

 

[CopyCat]

*rips up the numbers* KIRBY RULES

 

[Pink Reaper]

CopyCat knows whats up

By which i mean he uses sheik in tournament lmao

 

[Nizro]

omg seriously you guys don't know anything about Kirby, me and AJP are currently laughing our ***** off because of this thread..
I spent last night playing against AJPs Luigi, Falco and Pikachu.. after 20 matches each he was like "I can't win with this character(Luigi)" so he switch then I ***** him yet again with the next character(Falco) so he was "WTF CAN YOU DO!?" so he switch to Pikachu the first matches showed some progress and then after a few matches I started the **** train again(I have never played Kirby vs Pikachu so I just needed some matches to know what to do)..
Later that night I played some games against IVPs(If you don't know who he is, check it up) Fox and we were even most of the matches and don't say stuff like he don't know the matchup we have played before and most of EC/Stockholm/Sweden knows that Kirby is the business.

This thread is the living example of people that live in the shadows or just play the character way wrong.
I've gone even with most of the top players in Sweden using Kirby and note, I also WON those matches..
Players that I've beaten using Kirby are:CW, IVP, Leffen, Pepito, Armada, Aniolas, AJP.. and they didn't use lowtiers themselves, they actually used their mains so don't be *****in' about them not using a good character.

Personal opinion from different people:
AJP: (about the Kirby vs Luigi Matchup)
On stage there's not a single thing that can get around the bair and offstage you're as good as dead.. the bair, uair and especially the dair kills you.
Leffen:WTF DO THEY MEAN HE CAN'T DO ****, He just covered 3 options how the **** am I supposed to get in? if I sideB the ledge with Falco he'll ftilt me if I upB he'll wavedash to the ledge jumping up with a bair and if I go high he'll take me out anyways with the ftilt... he's too good.
Your Kirby is the only Kirby that I actually enjoy watching, you're so aggresive and beast.
Pepito:That bair.
ARmada:Your Kirby is fking mad, you never miss a techchase or anything.

And about his MU's ****.. I ain't putting any nr out there because I might get biased but Kirby should be very high in low tier..

I have never looked on a single Kirby match ever, I just now watched some of the refernce videos and was like "wtf is he doing?".. I'm glad I never watched a single "pro" kirby player play, because if I did I would probably also have gotten the wrong stuff into my system I got my own style and it fking *****.

 

[Pink Reaper]

lol .

 

[BunBun]

Man I wish I PAL.


And arrogance. Lots of arrogance.

 

[leffen]

all USA kirby players suck ***
trufax, and i havent even watched a single video.

 

[Mind Trick]

are you talking friendly matches or tournament matches nizro, just curious

(lots of anger in swedes btw lol) UMAD?

 

[BunBun]

Hey, everyone that thinks Kirby is good: Come to Pound 5 and prove it.

 

[leffen]

yeah because if it isnt in america it doesnt count amirite?
suprise.

 

[BunBun]

Not quite. More like, if it's not on NTSC against solid NTSC players in a highly skilled tournament setting, it matters considerably less on the NTSC boards.

It's not a matter of Europe vs America, but I think it's funny how a lot of people immediately pull that card.

 

[Nizro]

I'm pretty sure I'm coming to the US next year, I'll try to play NTSC Kirby but he sucks arse compared to the PAL version in which he's faster, longer range and got a better weight.

But for most parts I'll go like "wtf I died?" or "Oh yeah I can't CC at this %.." or "lolz I would have gotten there in time if it was PAL.."
But if I attend to a U.S tournament I won't go Kirby since I'm a CF, Marth main.. Kirby is like my 3rd-5th.. He's my 2nd choice by standards but people always say that I should go CF, Marth, Falco, Fox first hand so

And about if some/those were tourney matches, most were seriouslies..
I did a comeback with Kirby last mini tournament. me and Pepito were losing against Leffen and AJP with Falco, CF so I switch to Kirby when they had 2-0 and we won 3-2.. so, if that doesn't count as "Kirby ain't garbage" I don't know what will..

That actually got recorded but the recording system somehow got *****.. I guess Kirby ***** to much(I actually did a 2on1 comeback the last match if I remember correct.

But, seriously NTSC or not, those MU % are way off.

 

[Triple R]

What are the differences between NTSC kirby and PAL kirby? Do some of his room have longer range?

 

[Pink Reaper]

I'm pretty sure I'm coming to the US next year, I'll try to play NTSC Kirby but he sucks arse compared to the PAL version in which he's faster, longer range and got a better weight.

Literally only the weight part of this is actually true. Kirby is slightly heavier in PAL, that's it. None of his moves are stronger with the exception of his Dash Attack which increases damage by 1%, however it's knockback is actually greatly reduced. His range is exactly the same, as is his speed. In fact technically, because PAL runs at 50 frames per second as opposed to 60fps he's actually SLOWER. Also the weight difference in PAL is negligible as at most there's only a 4% difference between what would kill him in NTSC as opposed to PAL.

And no, "Seriouslies" dont count. When was the last time someone CP'd KJ 64 with Fox and camped you for 8 minutes in a friendly?

If you come to america I will gladly MM for any amount with any character, I'll let you pick for me, I promise you you will lose.

 

[ajp_anton]

In PAL he runs faster, is heavier (the biggest weight change of all chars), and at least his fair has less landing lag. His f-smash has a different angle (don't know about strength).
His fair might also have more range, but it needs more testing.

edit to above:
That 50/60Hz comment doesn't make any sense.

 

[Tero.]

In fact technically, because PAL runs at 50 frames per second as opposed to 60fps he's actually SLOWER.

What the hell are you talking about, Pink Reaper?
That comment was extremely stupid and you should feel bad about it.

=P

 

[Nizro]

And that's coming from the btt master, if you say anything against that you're even more dumb.
Uhm yeah, I'll stay Kirby on KJ64 for sure.. even DL64 is kinda hard to play on as Kirby..
And sure you'll take on and own one of Sweden's finest players that for most parts is dead even with ARmada?... Aight.

His Fsmash weakhit hit you up at an angle in NTSC, it's very much like Falco's weird dsmash hit but it might be just a little bit stronger, while in PAL it hits you like any other weakhit, just like the stronghit but weaker, so it's viable to use.

 

[BunBun]

And no, "Seriouslies" dont count. When was the last time someone CP'd KJ 64 with Fox and camped you for 8 minutes in a friendly?

Yesterday, actually.

I did a comeback with Kirby last mini tournament. me and Pepito were losing against Leffen and AJP with Falco, CF so I switch to Kirby when they had 2-0 and we won 3-2.. so, if that doesn't count as "Kirby ain't garbage" I don't know what will..

That actually got recorded but the recording system somehow got *****.. I guess Kirby ***** to much(I actually did a 2on1 comeback the last match if I remember correct.

Lmao I actually really would have liked to see that. Kirby in teams is hilarious and awesome.

 

[ajp_anton]

For some reason my recording always fails when I'm about to record Nizro's Kirby, but last friday it finally worked. Videos should be up tomorrow, but it's mostly (only?) friendlies with me trying to figure out how to beat him with 3 different chars. And sadly that says more about me than his Kirby.

Next friday (I think) Armada may be visiting Stockholm so we are going to have a small tournament. Expect videos of both Nizro's and Armada's Kirbys.

 

[Pink Reaper]

What the hell are you talking about, Pink Reaper?
That comment was extremely stupid and you should feel bad about it.

=P

I know its not actually true but man, Fox looks so **** slow in PAL it makes me sad lol.

Edit: The Fsmash weak hit thing happens in NTSC as well btw. Also yes, Nizro, you will lose, because you would be playing Kirby lmao.