The Official Geno Thread

[OysterMeister]

Um, no Stryks, I'm saying Sonic is from Sega, but that like Sega with Sonic, Square must go to nintendo about Geno getting in, and not the other way around, which seems to be the popular opinion. So nintendos possible abundance or lack of intrest in Geno only counts so far as they will accept whatever Square decides to present, IF Square trys to get a character in Brawl and if that character is Geno. That's what I mean. I'm just not convinced that Square would choose Geno over every other character they have to put in Brawl.

 

[Stryks]

Did u completely ignore my last post? Geno is a diferent story from Sonic, megaman and others... hes from the marioverse... please read...

 

[McFox]

Also, a good while ago Miyamoto was asked in an interview about Sonic appearing in Brawl. Miyamoto said that although he knew that Sonic was a very popular choice, Sega had yet to contact either himself or Sakurai and thus nothing had been done as of the time of the interview
Now, I'll take this to mean that nintendo isn't approaching anybody; just like with snake, the creator or company must go to nintendo with the idea first. So who from sega will go to nintendo? And which character will they propose? Geno?

Love the logic on that one. "Miyamoto mentioned something in an interview, so obviously that's Nintendo corporate policy."

I would err on the much more simple "He misspoke," or "He was covering up that they're already in talks with Sega," not "He was clearly trying to communicate to people who would take his word as law that other companies must first contact them before talks can begin."

 

[Lord_Deathborne]

Urgh... What is with this constant use of "ergo" McFox? "Therefore", "thus", "hence", and any number of other words of that nature will deliver the same intended literary effect. I can assure you that it's repeated use does give one the impression that you have a position of authority on the issue... Rather, I feel as if I'm watching that Architect scene from The Matrix: Reloaded again...

Concerning the Geno issue, despite him technically having a third-party status, I feel that he would be treated more or less in the same vein as a second-party character, given the fact that he was designed with the intention of being a character within the Mario universe and I highly doubt that Square-Enix has any plans to feature him in any role outside of his original design. Why else would he make a cameo appearance in a game in which Square-Enix had no role in whatsoever other than giving their stamp of approval to allow the character to be used? However, isn't it interesting that he (as well as Mallow for that matter) was NOT featured in Mario Hoops 3-on-3, despite being a Nintendo and Square-Enix collaboration? It would have been the perfect opportunity to bring the character out of cold storage, and yet they chose to feature generic Final Fantasy character archetypes instead, all of whom were strictly third-party properties. At this point in time, Geno seems to be stuck in some sort of Limbo that exists between third-party and second-party status, officially recognized as a third-party property and yet being treated more like a character that is of a second-party status. Who's to say how this little dilemma will eventually play? All we can do at this point is hope for the best, because as OysterMeister has alluded to, if it is indeed up to Square-Enix as to which character will be represented in SSBB, it is highly likely that it will not be Geno...

 

[Fear]

dude geno owns

 

[OysterMeister]

Sorry, McFox, maybe I phased that badly. What I meant to say was that Miyamoto said that nothing had been done about Sonic in Brawl BECAUSE Sega hadn't contacted the Brawl development team. Maybe he was just dodging the question; but if he was, why include that second bit about it being Segas fault? He could have stopped at 'nothing being done' and left it at that.
And this main not be official Nintendo policy, but is it that much of a stretch to think that this may be official Miyamoto policy? Which, really, is all that counts.

But even ignoring all that, why is it so far fetched that Nintendo would leave the licencing to the other companies?
After all, Sakurai and the rest of the Brawl team already have plenty on their plates in making Brawl without adding the trouble and hassle of seaking out corporate licences for characters, which I can only imagine as slow, boring, and painful. It seems far easier to let a development company figure out the charater they're willing to lend and have THEM appraoch the Brawl development team, not the other way around. Considering that the Brawl team still has to create the character after all the legalese is sorted out, I don't think that this policy is so far fetched, do you?

Personaly, I just can't see members of the Brawl development team running around from company to company trying to get the rights to various characters that may or may not be availiable. Especialy not when they've got a game to work on that still has the potential for more than enough characters as it is.

 

[McFox]

Of course they're not going to 10 developement teams. According to Sakurai (who's opinion is actually the only one that counts), there will be two more third party characters, MAX. Now, I doubt this means that they have a quota of two more characters they need to fill. It's more my opinion that he's already got two in mind, which is why he said that.

But hey, this is going in circles, and the circle is not my favorite shape, so I'm stopping there.

 

[OysterMeister]

Of course they're not going to 10 developement teams. According to Sakurai (who's opinion is actually the only one that counts), there will be two more third party characters, MAX. Now, I doubt this means that they have a quota of two more characters they need to fill. It's more my opinion that he's already got two in mind, which is why he said that.

False. Go back and check that translation thread again. You'll notice that SamuraiPanda really tries to hammer home that Sakurai uses some very vaugue wording when discussing the possible final number of third party characters. If memory serves, the closest he could come to translating it was some thing like 'one or two more characters, maybe?' which, to me at least, doesn't sound like anything set in stone.
And if you truly believe that there are only going to be at most two more third party characters in Brawl, what makes you so sure that Geno of all people will get one of those spots?

 

[petre]

And if you truly believe that there are only going to be at most two more third party characters in Brawl, what makes you so sure that Geno of all people will get one of those spots?

how can you doubt geno, man? honestly. its inhuman.

 

[McFox]

And if you truly believe that there are only going to be at most two more third party characters in Brawl, what makes you so sure that Geno of all people will get one of those spots?

I've already outlined that. If you really want to know, check back like, 10 or 15 posts. I've extensively detailed why Geno has very, very good chances to be in this game.

 

[OysterMeister]

Okay, McFox, I'll admit that it was silly of me to ask why you thought Geno would be in Brawl, I'm sure you have plenty of reasons. It's just that I only just came into this thread recently and over 100 pages with who knows how many posts is a little much for me to read through, I'm only human. So I'll concede the point on this one and assume there's plenty to back up your claim.

But my point still stands. It's my opinion that the Brawl development team is waiting for requests from third parties for characters rather than going to the third parties themselves. Which means that even if Sakurai recognises the popularity of Geno, it will all count for nothing if Square doesn't approach him first. Maybe he could bring up Geno once he and square go into talks, I don't know, but I still see it as unlikely that Square would approach nintendo on this one. It just seems out of character for them.

If Geno was first or second party, there wouldn't be any doubt in my mind. But he isn't, he's third party, and that means that his being in Brawl is dependent upon far more than the whim of Sakurai. Geno's popular, and Sakurai probably even knows this to boot, but none of that matters in the slightest if Square doesn't do anything about it. And considering the support square has shown to other of their star characters (cloud, chrono, etc...) I'm not sure at all that this will happen.

 

[McFox]

Well, consider this. If Geno is as unimportant as you say, then why on Earth would they have gone to Square to get the rights to show Geno in a MINOR CAMEO in Mario & Luigi? I seriously doubt that that was Square's idea. Nintendo wanted to show Geno for a FEW MOMENTS, so they went to Square to get the rights.

Why did they do this? Because Geno is extremely popular, and Nintendo knew that the fans would recognize Geno and think his inclusion was awesome.

Now, there's no reason for them to have done that if Geno is as minor and unimportant as you say. Nintendo KNOWS that Geno is a very recognizable and loved character, and his inclusion in Brawl is FAR more important than a minor cameo.

So yeah, of course Square isn't going to come to Nintendo with this idea. Nintendo is going to approach Square (AGAIN) about putting Geno into the game.

 

[Brawlmatt202]

Hey, I just remembered something! I was on this site a while ago:

www.smashbrothersonline.com

And I was on their forum, and I was saying stuff about Geno being cool, and being owned by Square, and they called me a n00b, and said both Geno and Mallow were bought by nintendo a while ago!

I comlained and asked where they found it out, because they acted as though everyone would know it! They said a "friend" of theirs wrote a letter, and the reply said so.

I mean, honestly, if they WERE bought over, how the hell was I supposed to know, bunch of jerks.

 

[Lord_Deathborne]

Hey, I just remembered something! I was on this site a while ago:

www.smashbrothersonline.com

And I was on their forum, and I was saying stuff about Geno being cool, and being owned by Square, and they called me a n00b, and said both Geno and Mallow were bought by nintendo a while ago!

I comlained and asked where they found it out, because they acted as though everyone would know it! They said a "friend" of theirs wrote a letter, and the reply said so.

I mean, honestly, if they WERE bought over, how the hell was I supposed to know, bunch of jerks.

That was nothing but a blown way out of proportion rumor anyway... McFox e-mailed Nintendo about the matter some time back and was told that they are still in fact properties of Square-Enix.

 

[Kirye]

Hey, I just remembered something! I was on this site a while ago:

www.smashbrothersonline.com

And I was on their forum, and I was saying stuff about Geno being cool, and being owned by Square, and they called me a n00b, and said both Geno and Mallow were bought by nintendo a while ago!

I comlained and asked where they found it out, because they acted as though everyone would know it! They said a "friend" of theirs wrote a letter, and the reply said so.

I mean, honestly, if they WERE bought over, how the hell was I supposed to know, bunch of jerks.

I have no idea if that's true or not. =/

As far as I know up to now, Geno's been a third party owned by Square, and Nintendo hasn't boughten the rights. Now, if they did (We wouldn't know anyway, it's not like it'd appear on the smashbros website that we check everyday unless Sakurai stated that Geno was to be added), then it's well obvious that Geno WILL be in Brawl, why else would they buy his rights?

But of course, that's if they did. And chances are they haven't, they probably just made that up. Also, yes, they're jerks, and Gamefaqs are *******, all the big brawl discussion sites have something special to them. <3 We're elitist and love it.

 

[McFox]

Check the first post of this topic.

 

[OysterMeister]

Well, consider this. If Geno is as unimportant as you say, then why on Earth would they have gone to Square to get the rights to show Geno in a MINOR CAMEO in Mario & Luigi? I seriously doubt that that was Square's idea. Nintendo wanted to show Geno for a FEW MOMENTS, so they went to Square to get the rights.

Why did they do this? Because Geno is extremely popular, and Nintendo knew that the fans would recognize Geno and think his inclusion was awesome.

Now, there's no reason for them to have done that if Geno is as minor and unimportant as you say. Nintendo KNOWS that Geno is a very recognizable and loved character, and his inclusion in Brawl is FAR more important than a minor cameo.

So yeah, of course Square isn't going to come to Nintendo with this idea. Nintendo is going to approach Square (AGAIN) about putting Geno into the game.

Really? Camelot, a second party development company, puts a cameo appearance of a retro character in their game and that's supposed to be official nintendo policy? Maybe someone in camelot just really liked Mario RPG, and so they put that little homage in. Either way, it's still not an example of Nintendo approaching Square, just an example of a second party appraoching square.
Personaly, I think that if Nintendo wasn't willing to approach Sega about Sonic, who despite everything still seems to have a huge fanbase, then I don't think they'd be willing to approach Square about Geno.

 

[Lord_Deathborne]

No... I'm pretty sure it was AlphaDream, not Camelot, that developed Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga...
Otherwise, point well taken.

 

[McFox]

Really? Camelot, a second party development company, puts a cameo appearance of a retro character in their game and that's supposed to be official nintendo policy? Maybe someone in camelot just really liked Mario RPG, and so they put that little homage in. Either way, it's still not an example of Nintendo approaching Square, just an example of a second party appraoching square.

I'm really getting tired of this. Second-parties are OWNED by Nintendo. As such, they don't make a move without Nintendo's approval. This was not Unknown Program Developer 4 writing an email to Square saying "Hey, I like Mario RPG, can I put Geno in?" This was Nintendo officially going to Square, saying "Hey, we want to put a cameo of Geno in the game, but you guys still own him, so we need your permission to do it."

That is much more major than you make it out to be.

Personaly, I think that if Nintendo wasn't willing to approach Sega about Sonic, who despite everything still seems to have a huge fanbase, then I don't think they'd be willing to approach Square about Geno.

THING IN RED ARE THINGS THAT ARE NOT PROVEN, OTHERWISE KNOWN AS RUMORS.

I don't care who said it, Miyamoto is not God, and isn't correct 100% of the time.

 

[OysterMeister]

I'm really getting tired of this. Second-parties are OWNED by Nintendo. As such, they don't make a move without Nintendo's approval. This was not Unknown Program Developer 4 writing an email to Square saying "Hey, I like Mario RPG, can I put Geno in?" This was Nintendo officially going to Square, saying "Hey, we want to put a cameo of Geno in the game, but you guys still own him, so we need your permission to do it."

That is much more major than you make it out to be.

Um, no, second parties CAN and often do make a move without the knowledge of thier parent companies, that's why they're second party.
For example: the current Donkey Kong canon established in the DKC games is that Cranky Kong is the original DK, and the current DK with the red necktie is in fact DK Jr. grown up. This has not officialy been confirmed by Nintendo, however, and thus DKs true identity remains in limbo.
Bam. Right there. A famous second party company doing something without the knowledge, approval, or sactioning of the first party company. It happens.

I don't care who said it, Miyamoto is not God, and isn't correct 100% of the time.

Granted. But he is one of the few people who should know. I mean, you accept most of what Sakurai says about Brawl as fact, right? He might have been wrong or lying about everything, but it's all we have to go on, so we assume it's truth. I'm just doing the same thing here with Miyamoto.

 

[McFox]

Have I mentioned that I don't feel like going around in circles about this with you?

You don't think Geno can get in the game. Believe me, that's wonderful that you can interpret data and expel your own opinions based on this data. Believe me, there's nothing I'd love more than to sit here for hours on end, watching you spit out an uninterrupted stream of the same few words over and over again.

But as I've said before, I think Geno has great chances. You don't. SO WHY ARE YOU POSTING IN THIS TOPIC?

You don't listen to anything I've said on the subject, nitpicking over tiny details and missing the much larger picture of how good Geno's chances actually are.

If you don't want to agree with me, FINE. Believe me, I don't really care even the slightest bit. But if you could stop wasting our time with your crap, that would be awesome.

 

[Tiamat]

Just a quickie note/reason for why Geno may be in Mario & Luigi (bear in mind this is all speculation, as it's not like Nintendo themselves ever officially gave out a reason)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Mario_RPG:_Legend_of_the_Seven_Stars

Scroll down to the Sequels section

As you can see, several Super Mario RPG employees also worked on Mario & Luigi: Super Star Saga. This includes the director (IE, the person in the highest position of the development process) Yoshihiko Maekawa, who was the director of both games. Also, the other director of SMRPG, Chihiro, at least appeared in the Special Thanks of M&L, so he likely had some influence as well. Perhaps most important is that the SMRPG character supervisor and thus one of the people most responsible for Geno's creation and also likely to be more attached to Geno as his creation, Kazuyuki Kurashima, also worked on M&L, albeit for the mini-games section. Still, the fact that he was in the staff at all means he likely had some influence.

This is confirmed by the credits to both games, here:

http://www.themushroomkingdom.net/smrpg_credits.shtml

http://www.themushroomkingdom.net/m&lss_credits.shtml


Because of this, you can't say for certain that it was initially Nintendo's own idea to put Geno in because Geno was just THAT important to them. It is at least equally plausible that it was Yoshihiko's idea or more likely, Kazuyuki's idea, and they brought it up to Nintendo and Nintendo from there decided to let them have the go-ahead. Kazuyuki Kurashima, being one of the people most responsible for Geno's design (and thus likely attached to Geno since the majority of designers love their creations if they have any soul whatsoever), could conceivably have felt guilty that Geno was stuck in third party limbo and thus requested or had the idea to include him in M&L, if only as a cameo, and brougtht that to Nintendo who would then approve.

In this scenario, Geno's "importance" to Nintendo stemming from that cameo is far less implied, as his cameo could simply have been one final tribute as a gift from Geno's creator Kazuyuki that Nintendo allowed to go ahead.

Of course, we don't know! But neither do we know that Geno was so important that Nintendo themselves screamed "We MUST have Geno in this game! He is VERY important!" and rushed to Square for it. So you can't state the latter as a fact, either. After all, it's not like Nintendo saw fit to get him to cameo again in Mario and Luigi: Partners in Time, or any other game after that.

Speaking of Partners in Time, here are the Mario & Luigi Partners in Time credits:

http://www.themushroomkingdom.net/mlpit_credits.shtml

Kazuyaki (the man who'd likely be closest to Geno) is now as absent as Geno is, although Chihiro is now moved up from Special Thanks to Field Design and Yoshihiko are still in there. This does lend a slight sliver of support to the possibility that Kazuyaki (and not Nintendo) was the primary reason for Geno being in Super Star Saga (IE, now that he's absent, Geno is gone, too.) Of course, it can't be stated for certain, but it's at least just as plausible as the idea that Geno's cameo in M&L instead means

Now, there's no reason for them to have done that if Geno is as minor and unimportant as you say. Nintendo KNOWS that Geno is a very recognizable and loved character, and his inclusion in Brawl is FAR more important than a minor cameo.

 

[HiddenTiger]

Tiamat, you bring up a very good point. But when you think about it, that scenario helps Geno's chances just as much as McFox's. If Square, or at least the man who owns the creative rights to Geno, put Geno into Mario & Luigi of their own accord as you suggest, that shows a situation where Square is absolutely fine with letting Nintendo use Geno. That, coupled with the fact that Geno was the top requested character on the fan polls, leads me to believe that if Nintendo approached Square about using Geno in Smash, Square would happily agree to give them permission.

 

[OysterMeister]

Well, HiddenTiger, I can only hope you're right, since I really do want to see Geno in Brawl, don't get me wrong. But my argument this whole time has been that I don't think Nintendo IS going to approach Square, or any third party company for that matter.
I think it's up to Square to present the idea of Geno in Brawl to Nintendo. And while I'm sure Nintendo would instantly accept if this DID happen, it just seems monstrously unlikely for that first step to happen at all.

And McFox, don't get mad at me just because your empire of beliefe is built around a popularity poll and a cameo appearance. If I can debate against that, then I suggest you get new material and debate back. This is a forum after all, what use is it if you can't debate a point? Incedentaly, I'm posting here because I wanted to know the argument for Geno, and it seemed like a good place to get answers.
And if none of us were allowed to analyze data and create opinions from it then the brawl section of smashboards would have gone dead quite months ago.

It seems that both our arguments are built around how we think the Brawl team will go about getting third party characters. You think Nintendo will go to them, I think they must come to Nintendo. Now, all I have to base this opinion on is an obscure interview quote and subjection. Do you have anything better? Because if you do, my argument fails, and Genos chances get better. I hope you do.

 

[McFox]

It seems that both our arguments are built around how we think the Brawl team will go about getting third party characters.

Wrong, that what you've turned it into by nitpicking. MOST of my argument for Geno stems from the poll taken by the director when he specifically asked people what they would like to see in the game.

It seems to me that a director of a VERY high profile game wouldn't conduct such a poll if he had no intention of letting it change anything he had in mind for the game before he took it.

So, keeping in mind that he's PROBABLY at least THINKING about the suggestions posed to him, then Geno is right at the top of his list, second only to King Dedede.

The rest of what I've said is support, and as Tiamat pointed out, I could be wrong about that. But despite how little importance you place on the poll, I think it's a lot more significant than you give it credit for.

 

[OysterMeister]

No, McFox, it is about how Nintendo will get their third party characters.

You mention the poll. Yes, that means a LOT, since it allows Sakurai to know exactly what people want (or at least get a good idea about it). However, my argument has been that it doesn't matter if Sakurai knows about Geno if Square has to make the first move.
Because it doesn't matter how popular Geno is, or how well he did in the poll, Sakurai can't do a thing about it without Square. And it's been my assumtion from the beggining that, rather than muck around with character rights, Sakurai would just put Geno on ice for awhile and work on the rest of the game, which already has more than enough possible characters, levels, and features to keep him busy untill completion.

Sakurai could still pull heavily from the poll without Geno. He could and probably will still add other top voted characters like Dedede, Diddy Kong, and Ridley. After all, if anyone asked him about it later, he could just say that he used 3 of the top 4 suggested characters. Not many people would fault him if he blamed legal difficulties for the exclusion of that fourth character.

So I ask you: is there any reason, other than the poll, to believe that Sakurai would approach Square?

 

[Tiamat]

Tiamat, you bring up a very good point. But when you think about it, that scenario helps Geno's chances just as much as McFox's. If Square, or at least the man who owns the creative rights to Geno, put Geno into Mario & Luigi of their own accord as you suggest, that shows a situation where Square is absolutely fine with letting Nintendo use Geno.

Well, I never said that there wasn't any legal paperwork involved after Geno's character creator himself hypothetically asked Nintendo (not Square, although he may have asked Square, too. Odds are the guy has personal connections with both companies if he was an employee of both). There may or there may not have been. It's not like we know that either. I was only giving a possible situation that occurred on Nintendo's side of things.

For all we know, after Geno's creator (hypothetically) requested Nintendo to put Geno in the game, Nintendo may have had to fight tooth and nail with Square before Square gave permission in the end. That's an extreme example (I HIGHLY doubt Nintendo had to fight tooth and nail just for a simple cameo) but it still does show that we don't know that Square was "absolutely fine with letting Nintendo use Geno" with or without any strings attached.

Or for all we know, Geno's creator personally requested both Nintendo and Square to put Geno in the game and Squaresoft agreed and was "absolutely fine with letting Nintendo use Geno" BECAUSE of Geno's creator, NOT because of Nintendo or anything else (and thus now that Geno's creator is possibly not with Nintendo anymore, it makes Nintendo securing the license to use Geno that much harder). Oftentimes, a corporation tends to show a bit more leeway when dealing with the person who designed something for them (in this hypothetical case, Geno's creator designing Geno but Square owns Geno in the end), even if they contractually don't have to.

Either way, you can't just assume that Square is "absolutely fine with letting Nintendo use Geno" without Geno's creator being at Nintendo anymore (at least, I haven't seen any indication that he's still there, what with him missing from Mario and Luigi's credits). There are too many other possibilities.

That, coupled with the fact that Geno was the top requested character on the fan polls, leads me to believe that if Nintendo approached Square about using Geno in Smash, Square would happily agree to give them permission.

To add to the above, even IF Square is "absolutely fine with letting Nintendo use Geno" as a cameo, that doesn't necessarily mean they're "absolutely fine with letting Nintendo use Geno" as a playable character (maybe they are, maybe they aren't. In the end, though, you can't just assume that getting a cameo is ALWAYS as easy as getting a full-fledged playable character). And if Square (hypothetically) wasn't "absolutely fine with letting Nintendo use Geno" as a simple cameo without any strings attached, who knows what strings they might require with Geno as a full fledged playable character?

 

[McFox]

Look Oyster, have I mentioned that I don't feel like talking about this with you? Fine, you can have the last word. I REALLY don't care. I believe Geno has very good chances because of the poll and his EXTREME popularity. You believe he won't be in because of an offhand comment by Miyamoto. If you want to take his word as law, then GREAT. But if that's the case, then what the hell are we wasting our time talking about here? If you absolutely refuse to see another side to an issue, you are NOT, as you said, "debating," you are "arguing," and I don't really feel like arguing with you anymore. You can claim that it's a debate all you want to because we've both presented "evidence" (even though BOTH of our "evidence" has been extremely flimsy AT BEST), but if you absolutely refuse to even CONSIDER that Miyamoto may have been wrong when he said some words ONE TIME, or that he was just outright LYING, then you are arguing.

I'm tired of this. If you showed even some kind of semblence of considering the other side of the issue, you wouldn't be as annoying. I'm not even saying you'd have to agree with me, but you won't even consider the possibility that Miyamoto was wrong or lying, because then you're entire ARGUMENT against Geno crumbles, and we can't have that, can we?

 

[shadenexus18]

And to think I was hesitant to play Legend of the Seven Stars. Whew, I almost made the biggest mistake of my life if I didn't play that game in the 90's

Okay enough with the great memories. The majority of people on this forum and all around the world want Geno in Brawl. Period! His moveset would be awesome due to the fact that he's a puppet that packs ammunition. In a sense, he is a gun. Mmmmm I can see his Smash Icon special now.........he turns into a cannon and lets his opponents have it......righteous.

So why in the world would you not want a character this unorthodox to be part of Smash Oyster? If you don't like him so much well then you can make an attempt to pummel me online when I decide to make him one of my alternate characters.........that is if he makes the cut. *gulp* Stupid Square Enix!

 

[El HP]

And that wouldn't happen with a character who has millions of fans, why?

So were the Ice Climbers and Pit according to your view, your point? Also, Geno being 'second rate' is your opinion, making it irrelevant.

Pit and Ice Climbers are the protagonist of their games not like Geno who is a second fiddle character.

Also, the Wii's capabilities surpass the GCs, and the GC has long since been dead, releasing Super Paper Mario on the GC would've had less sales than porting it on the Wii. Also, TP selling more on the GC is obvious, GC's been out longer, it costs about 50$ to get one, the Wii's were selling out like mad, and everyone who bought a Wii for their personal use bought Twilight Princess along with it, but of course does not surpass the number of Gamecubes in the world, as GC's been out far longer. That's like saying if FFXII was released on PS3 and PS2, why didn't it sell more on the PS3? Cause everyone and their mother owns a PS2.

Guess what Super Paper Mario is a port of a GC game with no improvements of any kind and you contradict yourself saying TP sold more on GC and then you say SPM would have sold less on GC how does that work? and that example of FFXII is not the same case because that game was planned on PS2 and was released on PS2.

If you were the personal creator of a character, and one of your good friends created a game that pits characters from many games together into one huge fight, wouldn't you want your character in? To see how the great Solid Snake would fit in in a mass fighting game?

Sure but I would like a piece of the cake because the would be filling their wallets with my creation.

I will end here because debating is pointless the Geno lovers won't change their minds and will always use the same and tired cameo and poll arguments but well it doesn't matter prepare to be dissapointed because Smash is about icons of gaming and Geno simply doesn't fill that requirement.

 

[OysterMeister]

So why in the world would you not want a character this unorthodox to be part of Smash Oyster?

Whoa, hold on there. I never said I didn't want Geno in the game. Seriously, I didn't, go back and check. I really do want to see Geno in Brawl. I think he'd be a fun character. But I'm not convinced that it'll happen. Sorry, but that's just my opinion.

you won't even consider the possibility that Miyamoto was wrong or lying, because then you're entire ARGUMENT against Geno crumbles, and we can't have that, can we?

McFox, it's true that Miyamoto might've been wrong or lying. And if he was then, yes, my argument crumbles. But if he WASN'T then YOUR argument crumbles, as it means that all of Genos popularity and poll status count for jack. I'd say that the chances for this are equaly good, or perhaps slightly in my favor if you consider that Miyamoto has a fairly good record so far as honesty is concerned.
Which is why I want something more.
Can you go beyond just ignoring this, and actualy DISPROVE it? Not miyamoto, I'm talking about the conclusion I've drawn from him. Can you prove that Nintendo will approach Square, or is all you have opinion?
I really do hope you have something more than what I've seen so far. I really do want to be convinced of Genos chances, and that's all it would take to convince me. And as you know, I'm willing to accept VERY flimsy edvidence.
But if not, well, you're just going to have to accept that your entire argument for Geno is faith-based, and stop being mad at me for it.


well, that's it, sorry if I seem overly aggressive or anti-Geno. I'm not trying to sound that way.

 

[Kirye]

Pit and Ice Climbers are the protagonist of their games not like Geno who is a second fiddle character.

Unless you don't recall SMRPG, who was the one who came down from the stars to save the world? The one who knew what was going on? Sure, Mario would seem the main character because it's his name on the title, but can you really say Mario played a bigger part in the game than Geno did? Besides his whole "Wow, he can jump like a tadpole!" scenes, the story was based on Geno and the Star road.

Guess what Super Paper Mario is a port of a GC game with no improvements of any kind and you contradict yourself saying TP sold more on GC and then you say SPM would have sold less on GC how does that work? and that example of FFXII is not the same case because that game was planned on PS2 and was released on PS2.

I didn't contradict myself, Paper Mario isn't as vast a selling franchise as the Zelda series, especially not one as well waited for as Twilight Princess. Games like Super Paper Mario don't get huge lines for reserves. So as such, releasing TP on both consoles, the one everyone has, and the one that was just released, which is STILL hard to find, so everyone could play Zelda, what'd be the point of releasing Super Paper Mario on the Gamecube? The Gamecube was dying, they decided to make it go with a bang with Twilight Princess as a second port, releasing Super Paper Mario as well would've been dumb, mostly because they no longer manufacture Gamecubes.

Also, when I mentioned FFXII, I meant in terms of games being pushed back. It being on PS2 has no relevance to that, i'm not saying "Vaan for Brawl" here am I?

Sure but I would like a piece of the cake because the would be filling their wallets with my creation.

I will end here because debating is pointless the Geno lovers won't change their minds and will always use the same and tired cameo and poll arguments but well it doesn't matter prepare to be dissapointed because Smash is about icons of gaming and Geno simply doesn't fill that requirement.

Maybe not everyone thinks that way? If one of my many drawing creations was to become a part of Brawl, I could really care less if I made money out of it, i'd just wanna see what Nintendo can do to my character.

That's fine, it's getting tiring debating against the Geno haters wielding the same bland points over and over, pretending to get a point across. Icons of gaming? If he wasn't an icon, why is he wanted in Brawl so badly? Common sense kid. If he's not in, I won't be disappointed, it'll still be Smash Bros. but i'm here debating that his chances to get in are fairly high nonetheless.

 

[McFox]

Please just tell me this. When did I ever express any inerest in proving anything to you? I've said everything that I have to say, four or five times, in fact. All you want is some flimsy evidence of Geno's chances, and then you'll be convinced?

How about this: I don't care whether you are convinced or not. I really don't. If you don't think Geno can make it in because of a comment by Miyamoto, then wonderful.

I'm tired of arguing about this. I don't have anything else for Geno. You'll just have to take it or leave it.

*EDIT* Obviously, this post is in response to Oyster.

 

[petre]

Can you prove that Nintendo will approach Square, or is all you have opinion?

can you prove brawl will actually be released? no, you cant, it hasnt happened yet, and its not 100% guaranteed until it has happened (not in any way doubting that it is going to be released...). trying to predict the future is never going to produce 100% guaranteed results, and since it seems thats all that is going to persuade you, then arguing is pointless. youre just wasting time, as is everyone arguing against you.

 

[OysterMeister]

Okay, McFox, I get it.
You can't disprove my argument or counter a one-liner from Miyamoto but don't want to admit it to yourself or face the music about Geno, that's cool, I've found out all I need to know.

Well, for all our sakes I hope that I'm wrong and Geno really does get in, doubtful though it may be. If Geno gets in, I'll toast to you, sir (or madam).



-----edit----
Come on, Petre, don't be silly. You know what I mean. Besides, if you read my post, all I asked for was FLIMSY edvidence. That's far, far less than asking for 100% proof, right? I didn't expect anything more.

Besides, this can't be a waste of time, since posting on this site has no constructive purpose other than to waste time. Our time here is worthless, and thus, unwasteable.

 

[PrinnyFlute]

I thought Sakurai liked obscure characters? That he wanted to do a lot of that stuff and cut loose? I'd think that combined with Geno's huge popularity would at least logically negate Geno's questionable (and I mean questionable at WORST,) legal status. Therefor rendering his chances an even 50/50 at the lowest. So why all the doubt and hate?

Really, the biggest boulder in his path obviously seems to be the fact that, well, if Sakurai's going to go through the trouble of securing the rights to use a 3rd party character, he'd probably stick to the more major gaming symbols if he could help it, for posterity's sake. But even then, that's provided SquareEnix even put up any kind of fight about it.

From a legal standpoint...why the eff should they care if a company they're currently rekindling goodwill with wants to use a more than ten year old character that they couldn't make a profit off of if they tried, anyway? I mean, what the heck could SquareEnix DO, release "Geno's Big Adventure" and pretend he was never even related to Nintendo in the first place? As far as Square's concerned, he's practically deadweight anyway.

 

[0rion]

For Geno to make a Brawl appearance is a long$hot cause Squaresoft (SquareEnix) just won't let him go which means he's another third party character techincally. This make$ no sense cause SquareEnix hasn't used him since the 90's.

Why let a good thing go to waist? This is a bunch of bull!

 

[OysterMeister]

It's not that Square wouldn't let Geno in Brawl, I think they would. It's that I don't think Square cares enough about either Geno or Smash Bros to approach Nintendo and try to get him in. Which means that if it's truly up to Square to make the first move (which is my theory) then Geno's chances are hurt.

If Sakurai or some other Brawl development team member is going to various companies trying to secure third party rights (which I doubt) then there's no problem. But if they're waiting for the third parties to come to them...

 

[shadenexus18]

I think that Nintendo should risk a lawsuit and put Geno in the game without SquareEnix's permission. They won't care.......I hope. Besides, Nintendo has money to burn. It's a stupid & risky business decision, but it'll make me happy if they do this......steathfully.

 

[PrinnyFlute]

Are you using Snake as an example, OysterMeister? 'Cuz I definitely don't think there's any rule that states that the third party must be the one to open talks at this point, especially considering they've already acknowledged being in talks over third party characters at one point in time.