The Official Geno Thread

[#HBC | marshy]

Oblivion and I'm waiting for Phantasy Star Universe and Halo 3.

SMRPG was so short, and I hope Geno will be in the newer Mario RPGS.

 

[Tiamat]

I wonder if they'll make Super Mario RPG available for download.

 

[McFox]

What is this? Was this a retcon? Were things changed so that Star Road and Geno (well, the guy who possessed the puppet of Geno and took on his name) never existed in the first place in Mario's storyline?

I didn't bother reading anything else because I can answer this right here:

Square still did (and still does) own all things from Super Mario RPG that Nintendo did not directly license to them (Mario, Peach, Bowser, the Toads, the Koopas, etc.). That means that, legally, Nintendo COULD NOT make reference to anything from Mario RPG without first paying Square licensing fees. Since they didn't want to do that, they just changed the story.

There you go.

 

[Shark X]

Didn't explain Star Road, which first appeared in Super Mario World. **** I miss Geno...**** Square for letting Geno rot when they'll never be useing Geno again, or have any reason to...

 

[lanky_gunner]

i'm starting to warm up to the idea of geno. he seems like a cool character. i only played a little bit of smrpg, so i really didn't know geno that well. now that i have learned a bit about him, he seems really cool. i think he would be an excellent fighter in brawl.

 

[Resting_Fox]

Yes, but this does go against one of the major reasons why Nintendo would want Geno to be in Smash.

Does he advertise and market something Nintendo will make in the future? No, because he's been apparently retconned out of the Marioverse (although his personalityless non-sentient husk remains).

Yeah, no offense, but you can take your ret-CONs and have them visit your rec-TUM.

Trying to classify all of mario games on one timeline is pretentious and absurd. If you were to attempt it, you'd end up having to fabricate some theory about Bowser being immortal or having made an army of clones to stand in for him in world 1-4, 2-4, etc.

Mario RPG was made in an era when Game continuity wasn't even questioned. In fact, most people realize that the games in that era are essentially telling the SAME story in different ways. Mario 1, Mario 3, Super Mario World. It's all "save the princess from King Koopa", just mixed up because it's a video game and variety is necessary to keep it entertaining.

So trying to quantify an exact and only "Marioverse" is impossible because there are too many contradicting elements from one game to the next. It's more like a Mario Multiverse in which Mario exists in several different parallel worlds that were never intended to be combined. By trying to rationalize a dream world, you just destroy all appreciation of that world as a dream.

Geno may have never been used again, because ther were legal barriers standing in his way. Not only that be he's supposed to have that sort of, once-in-a-lifetime appeal. Like Alucard in Symphony of the Night. After defeating Dracula he decides to retire from this world for good, which makes his character even more honorable because he hasn't been overplayed, overcapitalized, and worn out like Mario and Megaman.

One-shot characters are often the ones people end up loving the most, because they leave us wanting more. And a game like Smash is the perfect place for that "more" to be gotten

 

[Shark X]

Yeah, out of Mario, Peach, Bowser, and Mallow, Geno seemed to be the only adult of the group. Maybe thats why we love him so much?

 

[McFox]

Decided to keep going, wow.

1) There is no Mario canon. Different things are made up for every single game. Can you make me an accurate Mario timeline, right now? No, you can't.

2)

Does he advertise and market something Nintendo will make in the future? No, because he's been apparently retconned out of the Marioverse (although his personalityless non-sentient husk remains).

Does Mr. Game & Watch advertise anything that Nintendo's doing in the future? I'm pretty sure they quit making those like 20 years ago.

How about the Ice Climbers? I haven't heard an announcement of a new Ice Climbers game, and that was five years ago.

Dr. Mario? No announcement of a Dr. Mario game.

Sheik? Sheik hasn't appeared again since Ocarina of Time.

Nintendo doesn't add characters to Smash Brothers TO advertise. That's just what happens, because people like the characters.

There are TONS of Mario characters in Smash already and Toad likely has top bidding for any remaining slot, and if Nintendo wanted to represent specifically their Mario RPGs, they'd represent the LIVING ones that are still actually being made (and that they actually own) and use Fawful or Kammy, and even then they'd have to be smoking something strong.

Fawful has not appeared since the original Mario and Luigi game, which was incidentally Geno's second appearance.

He only apeared ONCE in one game that was never referenced in any Nintendo game or by Nintendo again (and apparently retconned away into oblivion via Paper Mario, even).

Once again, legally, they were not allowed to reference him without paying for it.

To my knowledge, Sakurai merely has Geno on his list of mentioned characters.

Well, we know for a fact that he has visited the Nintendo N-sider forums, because he posted a message to the people there. I've been there, and the Geno thread (as it is here) is one of their largest topics.

Also, directly after the trailer was shown for the first time, Miyamoto asked (with Sakurai sitting right next to him) who should be in. Immediately, people started shouting characters, and the name Geno was mentiond specifically.

Sakurai knows how much people love Geno. I'd be willing to bet that, with the Japanese market's affinity for RPG games (just check any issue of Famitsu), Geno was recommended a lot more than other characters on the list. Keep in mind, there was never a tally of HOW MANY times a character was recommended for the list, just their name was up there. I'd be willing to bet that Geno was one of the top-requested characters.

So again, Sakurai knows exactly how popular Geno is. Just take a look at our forum, Geno's thread is one of, if not the biggest character threads we have.

 

[Chi's Finest]

Fox sounded right. Geno would make a good fighter, just because he's popular, and would be easy to make a moveset for him.

 

[Deleted member]

Sometimes I think I would pay to be able to post on the N-Siders forum (observe my location).

 

[Shark X]

Nintendo doesn't add characters to Smash Brothers TO advertise. That's just what happens, because people like the characters.

So that means...no Pit? Wait, didn't SSB64 bring back Samus and Captain Falcon?

So again, Sakurai knows exactly how popular Geno is. Just take a look at our forum, Geno's thread is one of, if not the biggest character threads we have.

Krystal has the biggest, but I believe Geno is the 2nd biggest.

 

[Resting_Fox]

Sometimes I think I would pay to be able to post on the N-Siders forum (observe my location).

To end that train of thought all you have to do is VISIT the N-sider's forum.

I mean, sure it's Nintendo sponsored, but it's 80% spam. This site is actually a much better forum, and has more intelligence than N-siders, so I'm sure they're aware of and watching us as much as the N-siders.

 

[McFox]

So that means...no Pit? Wait, didn't SSB64 bring back Samus and Captain Falcon?

No.

Also, Ness has not been in another game since the original Earthbound, correct?

 

[#HBC | marshy]

Sometimes I think I would pay to be able to post on the N-Siders forum

That would be a waste of money, but Sakurai doesn't care how smart the people are, but how many people are clamoring for their character to be included.

 

[Tiamat]

Mario RPG was made in an era when Game continuity wasn't even questioned. In fact, most people realize that the games in that era are essentially telling the SAME story in different ways. Mario 1, Mario 3, Super Mario World. It's all "save the princess from King Koopa", just mixed up because it's a video game and variety is necessary to keep it entertaining.

A MESSAGE FROM MARIO
"Hello! How have you been? It's been such a long time since we've
seen each other. Bowser is up to his old tricks again, so Luigi and
I are going on another adventure. You're welcome to come along."
"This time it's Super Mario Bros. 3, the latest in the Super Mario
Brothers series. You'll experience lots of excitememt as your journey
unfolds. For beginners and seasoned veterans of our previous
games, this one is going to be a lot of fun! Let's look at Super Mario
Bros. 3 in a bit more detail."

Bowser is back!!!

STORY

The Mushroom Kingdom has been a peaceful place thanks to the brave deeds of Mario and Luigi.

Source: http://www.themushroomkingdom.net/manuals/smb3.txt

STORY

After saving the Mushroom Kingdom from Bowser and the rest of the Koopas in
Super Mario 3, Mario and Luigi needed to recuperate from their adventures.
Together they agreed that the best place to vacation was a magical place
called Dinosaur Land.

Source: http://www.themushroomkingdom.net/manuals/smw.txt

So trying to quantify an exact and only "Marioverse" is impossible because there are too many contradicting elements from one game to the next. It's more like a Mario Multiverse in which Mario exists in several different parallel worlds that were never intended to be combined. By trying to rationalize a dream world, you just destroy all appreciation of that world as a dream.

Didn't I kidnap you before? You've gotten a lot bigger and a lot more hairy.

I think I'll move to Boo woods to do some research over there.

[FLUDD] can scan any one person to find out all sorts of information about them. During one part of the game it flashes back through some previous Mario games, showing him battling Bowser in Super Mario Bros., fighting Iggy Koopa in Super Mario World, and swinging Bowser by the tail from Super Mario 64.

Yeah, no offense, but you can take your ret-CONs and have them visit your rec-TUM.

Getting mad? I imagine you'd be after you're constantly so easily disproved by a few simple google searches.

I didn't bother reading anything else because I can answer this right here:

Square still did (and still does) own all things from Super Mario RPG that Nintendo did not directly license to them (Mario, Peach, Bowser, the Toads, the Koopas, etc.). That means that, legally, Nintendo COULD NOT make reference to anything from Mario RPG without first paying Square licensing fees. Since they didn't want to do that, they just changed the story.

There you go.

That still doesn't explain why they decided to choose/write a storyline in the first place that directly contradicts Super Mario RPG. No one forced them to make Paper Mario's storyline based around Stars granting wishes.




EDIT: Partial Mario Timeline. See above quotes from manuals for proof

Yoshi's Island (baby Mario and Yoshi part ways at the end)
Super Mario Bros.
Super Mario Bros. 3
Super Mario World
Super Mario 64 (by now, the storyline says Mario and Bowser have been "constantly feuding". Also, grown up Mario has met and befriended Yoshi by now so it's definately after World
Super Mario Sunshine (FLUDD's scanning references the past Marios)


Many other Mario games you can't place in a specific spot due to no point of reference, but there generally is nothing particularly major in them to contradict any of the other Mario games (not including the sports games and kart games and party games)

 

[GenG]

Also, Ness has not been in another game since the original Earthbound, correct?

He made a quick shot cameo at Mother 3, but nothing more. Smash Brothers is the most popular game he's been in his short career.

 

[Deleted member]

That would be a waste of money, but Sakurai doesn't care how smart the people are, but how many people are clamoring for their character to be included.

Agreed, but I can't even register for the forum. Therefore, I cannot post. Its a bit unfair on non U.S or J.P.N people, who can't get their ideas across to the man himself.

[moan] Underappreciated characters have no chance. [/moan]

Sakurai should really listen to this site instead.

 

[Tiamat]

ARRRRRRRGH.

Am I the only one who has access to Wikipedia and Google or something? Sigh.

2)Does Mr. Game & Watch advertise anything that Nintendo's doing in the future? I'm pretty sure they quit making those like 20 years ago.

I've already addressed this. G&W represents an era that has no one else to represent it. Geno can not lay claim to being able to do this (unless it's something like representing the moment Square left Nintendo to get screwed)

How about the Ice Climbers? I haven't heard an announcement of a new Ice Climbers game, and that was five years ago.

Sakurai has already stated that he chose Ice Climbers to represent an era.

Dr. Mario? No announcement of a Dr. Mario game.

Clone character. I said "along with other reasons" for a reason. People are always so quick to try to refute specific parts without looking at the fullness of the whole post.

Sheik? Sheik hasn't appeared again since Ocarina of Time

Extension of Zelda.

Nintendo doesn't add characters to Smash Brothers TO advertise. That's just what happens, because people like the characters.

Roy.

Fawful has not appeared since the original Mario and Luigi game, which was incidentally Geno's second appearance.

....there's a reason I said Fawful and not Prince Peasley or some other loser.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fawful

"Fawful would make a return cameo appearance in Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time, thus proving that Fawful did, indeed, survive what happened back in Superstar Saga. "

Fawful even states he'll someday get revenge on "Red and Green", indicatnig that he'll likely be in future Mario and Luigi games.

Well, we know for a fact that he has visited the Nintendo N-sider forums, because he posted a message to the people there. I've been there, and the Geno thread (as it is here) is one of their largest topics.

Also, directly after the trailer was shown for the first time, Miyamoto asked (with Sakurai sitting right next to him) who should be in. Immediately, people started shouting characters, and the name Geno was mentiond specifically.

Sakurai knows how much people love Geno. I'd be willing to bet that, with the Japanese market's affinity for RPG games (just check any issue of Famitsu), Geno was recommended a lot more than other characters on the list. Keep in mind, there was never a tally of HOW MANY times a character was recommended for the list, just their name was up there. I'd be willing to bet that Geno was one of the top-requested characters.

So again, Sakurai knows exactly how popular Geno is. Just take a look at our forum, Geno's thread is one of, if not the biggest character threads we have.

Reports I've seen are they also specifically said Fawful and Lololo. Sakurai is obviously AWARE of Geno. That still doesn't give us any option but speculation when it comes to what his feelings on Geno are, as opposed to Resting Fox's claim that Sakurai SPECIFICALLY stated Geno would be a good 3rd party addition, which was the point I was refuting.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

Tiamat, you do know that no one cares that Geno was only in one game right? Look at Sigurd, he's the most popular FE lord in Japan.

Nintendo wanted to move on from SMRPG, they wanted to make a COMPLETELY different story, not add on to SMRPG when they didn't want to pay extra money.

 

[Tiamat]

Tiamat, you do know that no one cares that Geno was only in one game right? Look at Sigurd, he's the most popular FE lord in Japan. .

Star of his game.

 

[#HBC | marshy]

Not really,

Spoiler

seeing as he dies pretty early

.Celice played a bigger part, but most people want Sigurd in Japan.

 

[Tiamat]

Not really,

Spoiler

seeing as he dies pretty early

.Celice played a bigger part, but most people want Sigurd in Japan.

Ah. Touche.

But that comes with three wild cards of which their existance and/or effect can only be speculated on:

Is Geno as popular as Sigurd?

How much relevance does Sigurd's consideration for Melee have considering that in the end, Sigurd ddn't make it?

Does the fact that Sigurd was the main character for that first half make him count as a main?

 

[#HBC | marshy]

Sigurd is EXTREMELY popular in Japan, seeing as how his game was the 2nd best selling in Japan(Marth's was the best-selling) so no, Geno isn't as popular as him but that doesn't mean he shouldn't be in. Sigurd is more popular than some of the characters in Melee, so it doesn't matter if he's popular or not.

The only reason Sigurd didn't get in was because Roy was put in before him for advertisement. Marth was from the best-selling game(and the first one) and Sigurd was the most popular character. They felt they needed to put in the "face" of the franchise in over the most popular.

Sigurd being the main character or not is highly debatable. He was the first lord in the game, and the most memorable. Celice was the 2nd, but he was in the majority of the game, and most people like Sigurd over him.

So yes, there's a good chance Sigurd may indeed be in Brawl, but that's not the topic.

 

[Tiamat]

So yes, there's a good chance Sigurd may indeed be in Brawl, but that's not the topic.

So... why did you bring him up? He doesn't have much relevance to the debate if you're trying to use him as an analogy to Geno when Sigurd has a factor that Geno doesn't have (ludicrous popularity in this case)

 

[#HBC | marshy]

Oh crap, I didn't realize I contradicted myself. I take it back! Geno and Sigurd were both in one game, and only in those games for a limited time.

 

[McFox]

Yoshi's Island (baby Mario and Yoshi part ways at the end)
Super Mario Bros.
Super Mario Bros. 3
Super Mario World
Super Mario 64 (by now, the storyline says Mario and Bowser have been "constantly feuding". Also, grown up Mario has met and befriended Yoshi by now so it's definately after World
Super Mario Sunshine (FLUDD's scanning references the past Marios)

Ah yes, a Partial Mario timeline. That's very clever and resourceful of you and all, but can you actually make a FULL, COMPLETE timeline? No, you can't. And it's not because there's no point of reference, but because story points contradict each other, the most glaring example being the recent Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time.

The games are OBVIOUSLY not made to have a set timeline in line. I bet Miyamoto himself would tell you this. The games are made to be fun. Nintendo themselves have stated that they are not trying to be storytellers, they're just trying to make fun games.

In the end, you're making a lot of points that really have nothing to do with whether or not Geno will be considered:

Miyamoto: So, how's that work on Geno coming along?
Sakurai: Well actually, I need to talk to you about that.
Miyamoto: Yes?
Sakurai: Well, we're having trouble figuring out what's going on here. In Geno's game, he's the guardian of the Star Road. But then, in what SEEMS to be the direct sequel to the game, Geno isn't mentioned, and the story is a little different. It's even referred to as the Star WAY, which is a completely different word from "Road"! What's going on here?
Miyamoto: ...What the hell are you talking about?
Sakurai: I'm talking about continuity! People don't want a character represented if in the sequel to his game he doesn't appear! YOU wrote him out of the game like he didn't even exist!
Miyamoto: Well, yeah, but that's because Square owned-
Sakurai: -and you completely changed up everything so that he doesn't exist anymore!
Miyamoto: Yeah, but we've been getting tons and tons of email from people who would like to see him in.
Sakurai: Yeah, but I'm sorry, we just can't add him to the game. You're the one who wrote him out of the Mario universe. So, because of YOU, we can't add him.
Miyamoto: Wait, what do you mean? He appeared in Mario & Luigi.
Sakurai: Yes, but that was just the doll. The STAR that POSSESSED Geno and not the doll itself has never appeared again. And because you changed Star ROAD to Star WAY, which I remind you are completely different synonyms, Geno doesn't exist. So therefor, if Brawl takes place after Mario RPG, Geno cannot exist.
Miyamoto: ...Well... why don't we just say that it took place during Mario RPG?
Sakurai: No no no, we can't do that! As you can see from this partial timeline, it can't fit anywhere without completely screwing up all continuity in the Mario universe! The entire network of space and time would collapse! Soon Mario 3 will be taking place before Mario 1, and Sunshine will take place before Mario World! THE WORLD JUST WOULDN'T MAKE SENSE ANYMORE!
Miyamoto: ...right. And this is all to explain that Geno can't be in the game?
Sakurai: Of course. Weren't you able to follow the logic behind that?
Miyamoto: ...uh yeah... no.

I hope you get the point here.

There IS no REAL Mario continuity, and even if there WAS, it doesn't matter.

 

[Tiamat]

Yea, but Sigurd is ludicrously popular while Geno is only... well, not as ludicrously popular as Sigurd since I can't think of a specific measurement to gauge with.

Popularity might not ALWAYS be a factor, but in Sigurd's case, the chances of it not being a factor that would help Sigurd rise above being in only one game are pretty darn slim. And that's before you consider that he technically is the main protagonist at some point in the storyline, even if only temporarily (Geno is certainly a major protagonist, but never main. That's always Mario).

These are factors that Sigurd has in his favor that could elevate him above "only in one game". There are many many other things one has to look at, too.

For example, how many recurring characters are there in Fire Emblem? Not many for obvious reasons of the way the games' stories are set up.

How many recurring characters are there in Mario games? Too many to count.


If Sakurai can't find recurring characters in a franchise/series, he has to go with what he has. This is how Ice Climbers and Ness get in. Both of whom were stars in their games. In the end, there is ALWAYS an outer factor you can look at that have helped to get/propel a character into a Smash Bros. slot. A character simply needs one of these:


If the series has a significant amount of recurring major characters, then is that character a reasonably recurring major character? (note: Sheik doesn't count because she got lumped in with Zelda)

If the series does not have a significant amount of reasonably recurring characters, then was that character a star of a game in that series?

If that character is not either a reasonably recurring character or a star of a game, then is that character a pokemon?


So far, every single character in Melee and every single character revealed for Brawl can answer Yes to at least one of those questions. Geno... can't. Even Sigurd can at least say "Well, I was the main star character for a while!"

 

[#HBC | marshy]

You didn't ask another important question:Is that character popular and/or wanted by people? To Geno, you can say yes to that. He was a major role in SMRPG, sure it's not centered around him, but it was a major role nonetheless.

 

[McFox]

So exclusions to your ironclad set of rules in Pokemon and a character that appeared in only a single game but was really popular in that game, even if they weren't the star?

Funny, that's an exact description of Geno.

Also, your "lumped in with Zelda" argument doesn't really hold. Sheik was the MAIN character addition to Brawl, and Zelda was added later. I know this because at E3 2001, did Nintendo reveal that Zelda was a playable character? No. They revealed that Sheik was a playable character. Sheik got way more hype than Zelda ever did, because Sheik was awesome and popular from her single game appearance (just like Geno).

 

[Shark X]

Although Sheik did nothing...

And to answer Fox's question about Ness, I wouldn't know. I'm not a Earthbound or Ness fan.

And...I never even heard of this Sigurd guy...

 

[#HBC | marshy]

That's because his game came out in Japan only, unlike Geno making Geno more familiar worldwide.

 

[Tiamat]

Ah yes, a Partial Mario timeline. That's very clever and resourceful of you and all, but can you actually make a FULL, COMPLETE timeline? No, you can't. And it's not because there's no point of reference, but because story points contradict each other, the most glaring example being the recent Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time.

Er, could you point out some examples from that game, then? I didn't really see any when I played through it. If anything, the game referenced other games such as Yoshi's Island (Kamek tells Mario and Luigi he kidnapped them before) and Luigi's Mansion (E. Gadd leaves to start researching Boos) proving that it's SOMEWHERE within the timeline, even if we can't deduce the exact spot.

Miyamoto: So, how's that work on Geno coming along?
Sakurai: Well actually, I need to talk to you about that.
Miyamoto: Yes?
Sakurai: Well, we're having trouble figuring out what's going on here. In Geno's game, he's the guardian of the Star Road. But then, in what SEEMS to be the direct sequel to the game, Geno isn't mentioned, and the story is a little different. It's even referred to as the Star WAY, which is a completely different word from "Road"! What's going on here?
Miyamoto: ...What the hell are you talking about?
Sakurai: I'm talking about continuity! People don't want a character represented if in the sequel to his game he doesn't appear! YOU wrote him out of the game like he didn't even exist!
Miyamoto: Well, yeah, but that's because Square owned-
Sakurai: -and you completely changed up everything so that he doesn't exist anymore!
Miyamoto: Yeah, but we've been getting tons and tons of email from people who would like to see him in.
Sakurai: Yeah, but I'm sorry, we just can't add him to the game. You're the one who wrote him out of the Mario universe. So, because of YOU, we can't add him.
Miyamoto: Wait, what do you mean? He appeared in Mario & Luigi.
Sakurai: Yes, but that was just the doll. The STAR that POSSESSED Geno and not the doll itself has never appeared again. And because you changed Star ROAD to Star WAY, which I remind you are completely different synonyms, Geno doesn't exist. So therefor, if Brawl takes place after Mario RPG, Geno cannot exist.
Miyamoto: ...Well... why don't we just say that it took place during Mario RPG?
Sakurai: No no no, we can't do that! As you can see from this partial timeline, it can't fit anywhere without completely screwing up all continuity in the Mario universe! The entire network of space and time would collapse! Soon Mario 3 will be taking place before Mario 1, and Sunshine will take place before Mario World! THE WORLD JUST WOULDN'T MAKE SENSE ANYMORE!
Miyamoto: ...right. And this is all to explain that Geno can't be in the game?
Sakurai: Of course. Weren't you able to follow the logic behind that?
Miyamoto: ...uh yeah... no.

This entire hypothetical conversation is flawed because assumes that Geno was decided to be in the game (as opposed to just being considered) in the first place. The very first thing you made Miyamoto say shows that! Besides, I can make one up, too, that doesn't start with such blatant assumptions.


Sakurai: Should Geno be in the game? (Tiamat note: SEE? That beginning makes a lot more sense!)
Miyamoto: What will he represent?
Sakurai: Mario.
Miyamoto: We already have tons of Mario characters. Think of something else for him to represent.
Sakurai: Super Mario RPG.
Miyamoto: Why would we want to represent that? We have our own Mario RPG series now. Ones where we don't have to deal with Squaresoft's greedy lawyers.
color=blue]Sakurai:[/color] Well, not EVERY character has to represent something (Tiamat note: despite how that's the way it's been with every Smash Bros. so far!).
Miyamoto: Fine. Will he bring in more people to Brawl that wouldn't have brought the game already?
Sakurai: Doubtful. If they love Geno so much, they probably like Mario and us enough that they were going to get the game anyways.
Miyamoto: If he won't increase our sales of Brawl, then will he increase our sales of future games?
Sakurai: Why are you asking me this?
Miyamoto: Oh wait, that's right. We don't plan on using him. Heck, we sorta shoved that whole Star Guardian thing under the rug with Paper Mario, didn't we? Any other possible reason to put him in?
Sakurai: He's popular.
Miyamoto: We have lots of popular characters we could use in his place.
Sakurai: He'd be fun.
Miyamoto: We have lots of fun characters we could use in his place
Sakurai: Hey, I'm the Smash Bros. Genius here and although we have characters who are ALSO popular, fun, AND represent something not already represented OR would increase future Nintendo sales OR are the stars of their respective games, I'm maybe putting him in but you can't read my mind and I haven't stated publically on the matter so who knows!?
Miyamoto: Cheers!

So exclusions to your ironclad set of rules in Pokemon and a character that appeared in only a single game but was really popular in that game, even if they weren't the star?

Funny, that's an exact description of Geno.

Even Sigurd can at least say "Well, I was the main star character for a while!"

Also, your "lumped in with Zelda" argument doesn't really hold. Sheik was the MAIN character addition to Brawl, and Zelda was added later. I know this because at E3 2001, did Nintendo reveal that Zelda was a playable character? No. They revealed that Sheik was a playable character. Sheik got way more hype than Zelda ever did, because Sheik was awesome and popular from her single game appearance (just like Geno).

http://www.gamespot.com/gamecube/action/supersmashbrosmelee/news.html?sid=2761855

Although Sheik was introduced there, according to this, the only new playable character was Bowser. Therefore, you can't really prove that Zelda was added as an afterthought later on because it's possible that Zelda was always in the game but the footage they got together for E3 simply always had Zelda while she was in Sheik mode.

 

[Shark X]

I want a Geno doll ****it!

 

[#HBC | marshy]

We already have a lot of popular characters we can use in place of him? You didn't say WHY they should be used over him.

Same goes with why he'd be fun.

He'd be increasing sales, because he's popular. He could also represent the virtual console, which will most likely boost the Wii's sales. He, indeed, IS representing something.

 

[Shark X]

Well, there's Sonic and Megaman, but thats about it. Of course if they use every great character in one game, who would be left for SSB4? Sidekicks and lackys like Diddy, Tails, Toad, and Slippy?

 

[Tiamat]

We already have a lot of popular characters we can use in place of him? You didn't say WHY they should be used over him.

Same goes with why he'd be fun.

Sakurai: Hey, I'm the Smash Bros. Genius here and although we have characters who are ALSO popular, fun, AND represent something not already represented OR would increase future Nintendo sales OR are the stars of their respective games, I'm maybe putting him in but you can't read my mind and I haven't stated publically on the matter so who knows!?

He'd be increasing sales, because he's popular.

Are you going to not get this game if it doesn't have Geno in it? Is there a significant number of Geno fans out there who will not get this game if it doesn't have Geno in it?

Of course, we can not answer this question for sure, but I find it doubtful, myself.

He could also represent the virtual console, which will most likely boost the Wii's sales. He, indeed, IS representing something.

The virtual console? Isn't that kind of insulting? Slapping Geno in on the excuse of him representing the virtual console. I can picture Mog sitting in his Squaresoft Representative seat laughing at him now.

 

[GenG]

Ok, so what's representing Metaknight? And Zero Suit? What about any other suggestion like Krystal, Dedede, any one-shot Fire emblem character...?

Popularity and pleasing the different fanbases are a valid point just like representing or advertising. Geno is popular in both Japan and the US, it's a mythified character, enigmatic, cool, yet fitting in Brawl. He has a touch and glamour, unlike characters like Toad or Waluigi. The main problem is the rights thing and I think Square won't reject lending them to Sakurai, just for appealing you know.

 

[Shark X]

8 Bit Mario should represent the Virtual Console.

I have to say, you three are intellegent arguers. Most people I argue with seem to have no point, and very little IQ -.-

 

[Tiamat]

Ok, so what's representing Metaknight? And Zero Suit? What about any other suggestion like Krystal, Dedede, any one-shot Fire emblem character...?

Kirby (currently only 1 representative), Metroid (currently only 1 representative), Star Fox(currently only 2 representatives), Fire Emblem ((currently only 2 representatives)

The reason I bring up representing for Geno is because as should be obvious to everyone, Mario has TONS of characters representing it already.

Popularity and pleasing the different fanbases are a valid point just like representing or advertising. Geno is popular in both Japan and the US, it's a mythified character, enigmatic, cool, yet fitting in Brawl. He has a touch and glamour, unlike characters like Toad or Waluigi. The main problem is the rights thing and I think Square won't reject lending them to Sakurai, just for appealing you know.

Since you bring up Toad, I'll say that Toad is likely more popular and has a bigger fanbase. Thus according to you, Toad should get in instead of Geno based on the valid point of popularity and pleasing fanbases.

 

[Shark X]

Geno has more popularity and fanbase than Bowser, Toad, and Peach. Maybe other characters, just those that I know of.