And it works every time? Like 100%? I must be doing it wrong, no matter what I do, they always go up.
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The OFFICIAL Dtilt Spike Topic
- Thread starter sasook
- Start date
D
Deleted member
Guest
you're spacing it wrongAnd it works every time? Like 100%? I must be doing it wrong, no matter what I do, they always go up.
killbeast301
Smash Lord
I noticed this too, but was unable to replicate it so I figured my game glitched for a second.
And I also noticed Link's spin attack spiking as well. Try testing that out (it was with the hilt of the blade)
And I also noticed Link's spin attack spiking as well. Try testing that out (it was with the hilt of the blade)
The hilt? With a spike? How would you get into position? Before testing, I need a mental image of how it's supposed to look, which I can't seem to generate right now.
Some thoughts
It is very situational but still a great find.
It probably only spikes if they DI towards you when coming off the edge.
this leads to other option they can do once they find out link can do this.
They can jump.
Roll.
Or attack.
But Maybe this new find can work on a few of these. but probably not all of them.
Jumping would probably work if you timed it right. As they jump towards/on the stage.
The question with attack is who will get the hit off first...maybe you can power shield to d-tilt?
If not powershielding to spin attack/grab and hitting them during their lag is probably still the best option.
If it does work on all of them it is a ground breaking find that could move link up in the tier list as he has an even better edgegaurd.
Rolling has certain frames with invincibility. The question is can you time this so that it hits them and spikes when they are not invincible????
If not, it is just a nice find.
Even if it only works on 3 of the 4 coming off the edge. It means they will tend to lean on the 4th and become predictable. For example say it worked on all but rolling.....We could force players to roll off the edge and punish with a grab???
If it is attack it doesnt work on we could mind game them into going to attacking off the edge and powershield and attack them back off. Do it all over again.
Someone should take the time and test out those other three options. We need to test out this new find thouroughly.
It is very situational but still a great find.
It probably only spikes if they DI towards you when coming off the edge.
this leads to other option they can do once they find out link can do this.
They can jump.
Roll.
Or attack.
But Maybe this new find can work on a few of these. but probably not all of them.
Jumping would probably work if you timed it right. As they jump towards/on the stage.
The question with attack is who will get the hit off first...maybe you can power shield to d-tilt?
If not powershielding to spin attack/grab and hitting them during their lag is probably still the best option.
If it does work on all of them it is a ground breaking find that could move link up in the tier list as he has an even better edgegaurd.
Rolling has certain frames with invincibility. The question is can you time this so that it hits them and spikes when they are not invincible????
If not, it is just a nice find.
Even if it only works on 3 of the 4 coming off the edge. It means they will tend to lean on the 4th and become predictable. For example say it worked on all but rolling.....We could force players to roll off the edge and punish with a grab???
If it is attack it doesnt work on we could mind game them into going to attacking off the edge and powershield and attack them back off. Do it all over again.
Someone should take the time and test out those other three options. We need to test out this new find thouroughly.
4Serial
Smash Lord
actually, brawl is different than in melee. The edge system is really weird, and when you grab it, there's a little bit of lag in which you can't do anything like ledge hop, roll, anything. The invincibility you get from the ledge is reduced a bit because of this. So if you get up, roll, or even attack, there's at least a few frames where you aren't invincible. So it's easier to get spiked while you're just getting up from the edge.
A way to get rid of this ledge lag is to use your tether recovery.
A way to get rid of this ledge lag is to use your tether recovery.
I went through and paused the movie where it shows his final visible animation. I then compared it to Mario's roll, jump, and attack in 1/4 slowmo at 0% damage (Mario is at 80% so no big difference in animations).
He's definitely doing a jump. There's one measly frame where you can tell after looking comparing to the slowmo training mode.
I was playing around with it some more, my main goal was to find a way quickly approach the ledge without rolling. Sort of some way to combo into it.
First I tried pivot boosting but it didn't really work since when you turn around on the edge, you move slightly inward and have room to roll backwards.
Then I tried pivot boosting with a roll at the very end. I mean, it works but it's just eh.
Then I found you can to the right position with a reverse bombslide fakeout. I think this
1) provides a use for the bombslide fake
2) could be useful in that the explosion of the bomb hitting the opponent off stage while they are recovering could bring them right into your spike.
It's iffy, not reliable at all, and needs more testing, but hey, it's something right?
First I tried pivot boosting but it didn't really work since when you turn around on the edge, you move slightly inward and have room to roll backwards.
Then I tried pivot boosting with a roll at the very end. I mean, it works but it's just eh.
Then I found you can to the right position with a reverse bombslide fakeout. I think this
1) provides a use for the bombslide fake
2) could be useful in that the explosion of the bomb hitting the opponent off stage while they are recovering could bring them right into your spike.
It's iffy, not reliable at all, and needs more testing, but hey, it's something right?
NintenJoe
Smash Ace
I like it! Now there's a use for the reverse cancel! Finally, a point for me perfecting that technique!
Onomanic
Heaven Piercer
:/ I feel so behind in Link's ATs. I know the DAC, Arrow Cancel, the basic stuff. But I find no use for bombsliding. Any form of it for that matter. So what are Link's most useful techniques that actually go into real gameplay.
The AT's I do know:
DAC
Arrow Cancel
Pivot Sliding
Bombslide (Don't know how to put into my game)
Zair with Bomb
Fsmash with bomb
ZAC
Jab Cancel
Jab Lock
What should I know?
The AT's I do know:
DAC
Arrow Cancel
Pivot Sliding
Bombslide (Don't know how to put into my game)
Zair with Bomb
Fsmash with bomb
ZAC
Jab Cancel
Jab Lock
What should I know?
NintenJoe
Smash Ace
Edgeguarding
Zair Edgeguarding
Chaingrabbing
Reversal Arrows
Shield Pressure Bombs
Shield Dashing
Onomanic
Heaven Piercer
I know Edgeguarding, Zair Edgeguarding, CG (I invented one lol) and Shield Dashing.
I just left them out -____-
But Shield Pressure Bombs I'm working on and Reversal Arrows I'm working on too.
Thanks NintenJoe :D
I've tried, but you can't smooth boot backwards =/ only forwards. Even if you do the 'backwards' version in oliwonder's video, Link turns around to face forwards.
You forgot your very own boomerang canceling!
NintenJoe
Smash Ace
I wanted to add it, but I was afriad I'd get flamed.You forgot your very own boomerang canceling!
I want to call it "L-Cancel" too. It acts like the L-Cancel did in melee and also it could be the "Link-Cancel" and the TL-Cancel for Toon Link. Or maybe the G-Cancel (Gale Cancel). I don't know, I like them all. Plus, I really wasn't the first one to figure this out so I don't have the right to name it, I just resurrected it.
badreligion
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- May 12, 2008
- Messages
- 4
You can do it forward or backwards as long as your right at the edge of the level. I just did it forwards in training mode with the same scenario as the video you posted, though I'm not sure how the CPU was getting up on the edge or his DI.
Sorry I can not provide any proof, the only way to see is to experiment I suppose.
Sorry I can not provide any proof, the only way to see is to experiment I suppose.
Onomanic
Heaven Piercer
It's ok you don't need proof. ;D We already know Dtilt spikes when facing either way. It's just hard... and terribly impractical. D: I'm sorry, I just find no use for the technique at all.
Yeah, it's already known it can spike forwards too. It's just not many people would think it spikes backwards. It's harder to hit, but consistently spikes more than the forwards.
badreligion
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- May 12, 2008
- Messages
- 4
Ah alright. I didn't even know Link had a spike move until I saw this topic.
Onomanic
Heaven Piercer
That makes no sense but I do see why. I just can't get it to work lol. Maybe it's because I need to work on my edgeguarding
I know it makes no sense, it's totally.....inconceivable.That makes no sense but I do see why. I just can't get it to work lol. Maybe it's because I need to work on my edgeguarding
As for getting it to work, do you mean in matches or just in training mode?
Matt07
Smash Master
Maybe could you do Izaw's combo over the edge? Like jab, jab, then d tilt spike? Or maybe that's too hard to replicate.
LinkSpecialist
Smash Ace
Think of the spike hitbox as an outlining of Link's sword. If you hit anywhere beyond that outline, It won't work.
Get this...
The d-tilt has lot's of hitstun, but sends foes too high to combo into anything. If you ever manage to hit someone with the spike hitbox on a grounded enemy, it'll send them only half way up with all the hitstun still there leading into a true combo if you proceed to attack. The only problem? How are you suppose to hit anyone on the floor with that!?
Sakurai sure knows who to screw with people...
NintenJoe
Smash Ace
that's a great observation! Now, putting that into consideration, we need to find a way to execute it correctly. I propose either a Craq Walk or Pivot Boost to help actually reach the enemy and immediately unleash a Dtilt. Now, we need to figure out the perfect spacing to set up the hitbox sweetspot... thoughts?
But inside Link isn't really the outline of his sword.....
Well pivot boosting/craq walking doesn't work for the backwards, I've tried =/. As for the forwards, I have no idea except:
Hit their head with it so you're above them at 1/2-tip of the sword length, approximately
Hit their feet so they're above you at the hilt.
Correct me if I'm wrong, please.
NintenJoe
Smash Ace
This explination is for off the stage spikes, correct?
What LinkSpecialist is proposing is that we utilize the spike hitbox on a grounded enemy to lessen the amount of vertical distance without decreasing the amount of hitstun, leading into a true combo. The problem is finding the grounded hitbox for the spike and incorporating it into a Craq walked/Pivot boosted Dtilt...
I would really make the spike a part of Link's Metagame but it gets more and more confusing by the day. In my opinion, out current tasks are:
*Find a spike hitbox for the grounded Dtilt so we can formulate a true combo
*Find the hitbox for the offstage Dtilt
*Find an effective way to backwards spike an opponent
*Test reverse cancel into backwards spike
Then, finally, incorporate both spikes into Link's Metagame.
Another idea: Jump off the ledge->Gale Guard an enemy so that their only option is to recover towards the ledge at a vertical angle->land on the stage, facing the opposite direction of the ledge->when the opponent recovers, backwards Dtilt spike
Looks good on paper...
4Serial
Smash Lord
it's possible to replicate, but getting them trapped into a jab cancel would be hard if they're off the edge
if you can do it and time the d-tilt, there's a small chance they'll get spiked as long as they DI into you into the d-tilt spike
Onomanic
Heaven Piercer
It may look good on paper, but will it's goodness on tree pulp meet up to it's expectations? This will call for some massive testing. Maybe a few hours worth. And I think backwards rolling is the best way to set it up. It keeps you on the stage and sets you up perfectly. I think it should only be attempted to once or twice or many times to set up mindgames like Bairing or something. And NintenJoe, I accidentally found out earlier in the Wifi waiting room that you can't spike on the ground EFFECTIVELY. You can use those back hit boxes but it has the same effect MOST of the time as a regular dtilt. But lets keep up the research. Maybe I"m wrong about the hit boxes in Link's back on stage. But lets keep testing.
It keeps you on the stage and sets you up perfectly. I think it should only be attempted to once or twice or many times to set up mindgames like Bairing or something. And NintenJoe, I accidentally found out earlier in the Wifi waiting room that you can't spike on the ground EFFECTIVELY. You can use those back hit boxes but it has the same effect MOST of the time as a regular dtilt. But lets keep up the research. Maybe I"m wrong about the hit boxes in Link's back on stage. But lets keep testing.Dude...much more than a few hours worth. The reverse spike itself took me a week lol.This will call for some massive testing. Maybe a few hours worth. And I think backwards rolling is the best way to set it up.
And yeah, as of right now, rolling is the best option for it. The reverse bombslide fake still has yet to be tested, so far all I know for a fact is that it does get you into position. The bomb hitting the guy into your spike......dunno about that yet.
Onomanic
Heaven Piercer
Reverse bomb DAC will probably work. Normal DAC keeps you from falling off anyway lol. So forget the bomb, just reverse it. The reverse bomb fakeout will be a faster set up (I think Idk :/) then rolling. Loss of invincibility frames but it'll look flashier. Makes for a nice kill lol
Wait, I don't understand this part. What do you mean?
NintenJoe
Smash Ace
The backwards roll is a good way to set up for the reverse spike, but the problem is if you hit you opponent all the way across the map, you probably won't have enough time to run to the other side, roll, the Dtilt spike before they recover. As for the Dtilt thing, it isn't supposed to spike your opponent, but hit them up only half the distance of a normal Dtilt. I tried testing it a little bit and it kind of works. As you said, more testing needs to be done.And I think backwards rolling is the best way to set it up.
the problem with the reverse bombslide is that if the bomb hits your opponent, they may not get close enough to the ledge. (I think) The bomb hitting your opponent into the spike seems good, but its very situational to your opponent's DI. If they DI towards the ledge, which seems probable, then it might work.
DAC could work, it moves Link very quickly but there is a lot of lag on it. As for the invincibility frames, your opponent will be off the stage anyway so there's no point to them.
Such a difficult subject... so many options!
Well, hey, if all else fails, the reverse bombslide can still get you into position regardless. I know that much (it's how I thought of the idea in the first place). And a slide is much quicker than running and rolling.
I'm still confused as to what blu link said, how do you reverse DAC? You said forget the bomb, does that mean DAC backwards?
I'm still confused as to what blu link said, how do you reverse DAC? You said forget the bomb, does that mean DAC backwards?
Onomanic
Heaven Piercer
lol I meant reverse BOMB DAC lol. Not reverse DAC. But now that you think about it, what hundreds of mindgames would turning around a DAC while preforming it. Like going to the right then switch to the left. Mindgames. And reverse BOMB DAC would probably work. But NintenJoe, how would DAC work?
NintenJoe
Smash Ace
Well, it's faster than Link's normal run. I thought you were suggesting the usge of the fast movement to get to the edge more quickly, then simply turn around and reverse Dtilt spike. But i dont know, it seems like the usmash lag would kind of ruin it.