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The Official Dark Samus for Brawl thread!
- Thread starter GodzillaMan
- Start date
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Any monkey can make up a moveset in five minutes. I've read countless times on developers' blogs that IDEAS were a DIME a dozen.
It's the PROGRAMMING time that REALLY matters, and that's why clones take a lot less time and resources to make than non-clones even if you can come up with the idea for a moveset in 5 minutes.
It's the PROGRAMMING time that REALLY matters, and that's why clones take a lot less time and resources to make than non-clones even if you can come up with the idea for a moveset in 5 minutes.
Stryks
Smash Hero
Ok well sakurai has had over a year now and all 07 to finish the game, u think he could work at least ONE day in making him unique dont ya think??
Zarasai
Smash Journeyman
this has been said over and over again. of course thats cause its true. :D but i guess people maybe have difficulties seeing it?
Chief Mendez
Smash Master
You guys need to drop the whole time argument. Two years is not an ideal development timeline for a game of (we suppose) Brawl's scale. If they're going to greatly better the 1P modes (like they say they are) and add another 10 (roughly) original characters, while revamping the others, building new mechanics, stages, and items, they very well may not have enough time to do everything exactly the way they wanted to.
A game like Twilight Princess, in development for over THREE YEARS, still had some big issues. Granted, it could've just been all the hype, but Brawl's in the same position, isn't it?
A game like Twilight Princess, in development for over THREE YEARS, still had some big issues. Granted, it could've just been all the hype, but Brawl's in the same position, isn't it?
Zarasai
Smash Journeyman
what 'big issues' were these? clarify
Chief Mendez
Smash Master
The story fell apart after the Arbiter's Grounds. It was just dungeon, dungeon, dungeon, dungeon, end of game.
As compared to the first half, where you'd spend a good 5 or so hours doing stuff other than dungeons. Stuff like the carriage escort, and healing Ralis...
The story was nowhere near as good as Windwaker's.
One day? Oh please. You obviously know NOTHING about programming and how long it takes to do things when developing a game. If it really only took one day to make each character, do you really think Sakurai would even NEED 2 years to make the game at all?!? Use some common sense!
(hint: Common sense dictates that it takes a LOT more than one day to make each character. Heck, I'm positve even a CLONE takes a lot more than one day to make, let alone a unique character)
Stryks
Smash Hero
I know it takes more of a day to program a character, but hes bound to have at least one day to work on each character, IDK how much time it takes to do it, but all character should have equal share while programming, not just give, like for say Olimar 10 days of programming and just dark samus like 3 (its example dont bite my head off), all characters should have equal share, sure if times running out and havent yet fully programmed all the characters then yeah they'll probably gonna have some clones, but if thye have eough time, im sure sakurai will make every character in the roster unique and awesome...
Er, the point isn't about how much tmie he is "bound to have at least". This is about the MINIMUM time it will take to MAKE a new character in the first place.
A LOT more time than one day. Hell, a lot more time than three days or a week, even! As stated, if Sakurai could REALLY crank out unique non-clone characters THAT fast, don't you think he'd be able to produce Brawl with a humongous roster a LOT faster than two years?!
What if Sakurai doesn't HAVE ten days left to make Dark Samus because Olimar (and all the other characters before him) took up all the time? This is how and why clone characters are made. Because by the tmie he's done making Ridley and Olimar etc, Sakurai could very well be almost out of time. You can't devote 10 days to Dark Samus if you only have 4 days remaining before the game gets released (unless you delay the game, but you can only delay a game so much. Nintendo IS a business, after all). But you MIGHT be able to crank out a Samus clone, name it Dark Samus, and get her in under the wire right before the deadline in only 3 days if you make her a clone.
Or in this situation, would you rather have no Dark Samus at all?
If they have enough time, of course. Sadly, time is a precious and limited commodity, and not likely in Dark Samus' favor.
For crying out loud, not that it's necesssarily indicative of how far Sakurai actually progressed with the roster so far, but the only new character they've been able to show us so far is friggin' Fox. We're more than two-thirds into development (assuming this game gets released before 2007 ends) and they've only managed to make 9 characters presentable so far! Granted, they might have more hidden behind the scenes that they simply don't want to show us, but given how excited they were that they were finally able to show the first 8 in actual playable form (as opposed to just a movie) and had such a big hullabaloo about Fox (when truthfully the actually public didn't give a crap because we all knew Fox would be in the game anyways), I'm finding myself quite pessimistic about how far they've actually progressed.
Chief Mendez
Smash Master
Well, they were (from all reports) very secretive of Melee's roster before it was released. I rember only finding out about all the unlocks the same month the game came out. It's not that they haven't made lots of characters, just that they don't want to ruin the surprise.
And for future reference, we have no idea how far along this thing is.
And for future reference, we have no idea how far along this thing is.
Zarasai
Smash Journeyman
the point is we will all be here arguing about it until the game comes out and somebody will be right somebody else will be wrong. and then we wll argue about what should have gone in instead of what did. or about whos overpowered and whos not.
not that im saying dont argue (fine, discuss). this is fun and gives me something to do when i should really be working on computer science. lol
not that im saying dont argue (fine, discuss). this is fun and gives me something to do when i should really be working on computer science. lol
Chief Mendez
Smash Master
I really should get to those English note cards...
Zarasai
Smash Journeyman
<---- saves grammar for where it counts, not for people like you who could be half way across the world that i might never ever meet in my life heh
Chief Mendez
Smash Master
No no, I meant I was supposed to be looking up note cards on an essay database instead of posting on here.
...A little polish never hurt though.
...A little polish never hurt though.
Zarasai
Smash Journeyman
Oh
i get it. lol
i get it. lol
Chief Mendez
Smash Master
I know! I mean, Wario!? That's just Mario, only upside down! Dark Samus is dumb! That's just Samus with heavy eyeliner! Booo!
Zarasai
Smash Journeyman
the poster of the above obviously is either joking or has no idea what hes talking about. Now either he hasnt read the rest of the posts here about the clone issue, or he is just an ignorant fool.
Stryks
Smash Hero
Yeah it's amazing that samus can fight herself in mp2...
seriously dark samus and regular samus r totally different characters, play mp2 and ull c...
Zarasai
Smash Journeyman
are me and stryks like the only ones coming up with reasonable to arguments for why ds SHOULD be in the game?
Chief Mendez
Smash Master
Besides the odd naysayer here and there, I think most people accept it as in, even without confirmation.
So I don't think there's much need for new arguments.
ok you guys clearly have more insight on the newer metriod games then I do, but dark samus shouldn't be a newcomer in brawl, youcan think up all the different move sets you want but they are still going to look the same, it would be a dark blue/black samus with new moves.....how about adding in a metriod character that has a bigger fan base....like uhhhh RIDLEY!
Stryks
Smash Hero
Check every one of my posts were I mention ridley, I have always said I prefer ridley in brawl over dark samus, but DS also has a shot, yes I know dark blue samus, wong!, dark samus is metroid prime, using the phazon suit as a base for a new body, shes practicalyl mad eout of phazon, which is like nuclear radiation...
dark samus doesnt even touch the ground, I say she should float instead of standing on the stage, she would have diferent animantions, hell she wouldnt even attack the same way, cause dark samus uses phazon to attack, not kicks or punches, just phazon, she would be totally diferent...
dark samus doesnt even touch the ground, I say she should float instead of standing on the stage, she would have diferent animantions, hell she wouldnt even attack the same way, cause dark samus uses phazon to attack, not kicks or punches, just phazon, she would be totally diferent...
Chief Mendez
Smash Master
I support Dark Samus, but you're a bit off the ball here.
It doesn't matter what DS attacks with in the Prime games, since if that carried over to Brawl, regular Samus'd be much different. Also, I think what Lutz was going for was visual/anatomical sameness...which is definitely there. Just remember: Young Link.
Stryks
Smash Hero
I know they have similair body structure, hell there exactly the same, I know theres a high chance, but im hopin sakurai can c she can be more than a clone, anyway if what ur triying to say is that people may get confused when playing the game, since theyre so similair??
Easy already said DS could have diferent animations, including stand pose, anyway by giving dark samus like an aurora or like lighting coming out of her body or something like that, people wont get so easily confused...
Easy already said DS could have diferent animations, including stand pose, anyway by giving dark samus like an aurora or like lighting coming out of her body or something like that, people wont get so easily confused...
OmegaXXII
Fire Emblem Lord/ Trophy Hunter
My suggestion is that they should just make Dark Samus a costume when players are choosing different color costumes for Samus because on the real, Dark Samus and Samus would basically be clones if they included Dark Samus as a seperate character in the game.
Stryks
Smash Hero
Here I go again:
Saying dark samus should be a costume for samus is like saying jiggly should be an alt. costume for kirby, peach for zelda, and so on, when all of them are very diferent characters even tough they have similair-if not the same- body structure...
I know theres a high chance dark samus turns out a clone, but if U have EVER played and fought dark samus in those 5-6 battles, u would know they are very diferent...
Saying dark samus should be a costume for samus is like saying jiggly should be an alt. costume for kirby, peach for zelda, and so on, when all of them are very diferent characters even tough they have similair-if not the same- body structure...
I know theres a high chance dark samus turns out a clone, but if U have EVER played and fought dark samus in those 5-6 battles, u would know they are very diferent...
ok so dark samus would attack different big deal, there would still be a red/yellow samus on screen and a dark blue/black samus running around on screen, to me its filler taking up a spot for a much more diserving character in the metriod seris or not!
Stryks
Smash Hero
ok tell me another deserving character in the metroid series (not including ridley since I already said he should be in)
Chief Mendez
Smash Master
I don't agree with Lutz on that body type idea, I agree with you. I'd also prefer an original moveset, and I guarantee Sakurai has/will consider it. What it all comes to, then, is whether they have time, and whether they feel compelled to spend that time diversifying DS over another, perhaps more deserving character.
For the record, there were 3 Dark Samus battles.
For the record, there were 3 Dark Samus battles.
Paranoid_Android
Smash Lord
I'm don't doubt that an original moveset could be created for Dark Samus, or that the character has been important to the Metroid series, by being in three games. But Dark Samus is a personality-less cliche, and not fit for her (its?) own character slot. There are much better characters that the dev team could work on. Alternate costume ftw.
Chief Mendez
Smash Master
And I suppose C. Falcon, Game & Watch, Samus, and Ice Climbers are all just full of passion, right? Bad logic there, man.
Chief Mendez
Smash Master
No, I win for having the balls to post that in this thread.
But seriously, when does she ever emote at all? The only attributes she has that we can glean from the games is generic (cliche?) stuff like "courage", but she's the heroine, so that's a given.
We really have no clue as to what her personality is...therefore, she's "personalityless".
Wiseguy
Smash Champion
Samus' cold and somber demenure speaks volumes as to her personality. We also learn a lot about her personality in Metroid Fusion. You don't know of what you speak Mendez.
Chief Mendez
Smash Master
All we learn from Fusion's little text-scenes is that she does, in fact, think about her missions. I stand by the fact that she doesn't have a real definable personality.
Sure, she's driven, even vengeful. Dutiful, if you will. But that's still a very one-dimensional character.
Wiseguy
Smash Champion
We're talking about video game charcaters here. As Nintendo charcaters go, Samus has one of the more fascinating personalities. She's certainly more complex than any of the Links.
Zarasai
Smash Journeyman
somebody go make a samus thread so these 3 or 4 can go argue there! lol
Chief Mendez
Smash Master
He's got a point.
But I'm not backing down here, no. When you (at least, when I watched) saw the ending scenes of Windwaker, and when you saw the ending movie of Prime, which "grabbed" you more? Samus is a very static character, and so are most of the Links (with the noted exception of WW's), but at least they can express their feelings visually.
The instances where Samus does communicate with the player (e.g. Fusion text-scenes), she does so in very stark fasion. She never tells you that she's worried, or scared, or happy. She tells you what's going on, and nothing more.
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