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Q&A The official "Ask Your Questions" thread

Max?

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Agreed j00t. The Kong is pretty awful and overrated imo

and I say this as one of the few people in the country who uses him
 

j00t

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DK should be below the Links for sure on the tier list. Not too sure if Zelda or GnW is better than him though overall.
 

Strong Badam

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I do not care about how good DK is, only about my own improvement in using him. Discussing how terrible he is does nothing in pursuit of that goal.
 

Max?

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After the auto 8 characters, it's probably like:

Doc
Samus
Pika
Ganon
Luigi
Mario
Y. Link
Link
DK

from there idk. I'd opt to put GnW above a lot of the other characters easily tho
 

j00t

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I understand SB. I'll try to offer detailed input on the matchup tomorrow. Too tired right now.
 

bubbaking

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I play vs. a Game and Watch main a lot. I find DK has a hard time in that matchup. By comparison, the Mario's **** him mercilessly even if GnW has port priority.
What does port priority do specifically for G&W?

After the auto 8 characters, it's probably like:

Doc
Samus
Pika
Ganon
Luigi
Mario
Y. Link
Link
DK

from there idk. I'd opt to put GnW above a lot of the other characters easily tho
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=294748

After the top 8, it's this:
Doc
Ganon
Samus
Pika
Mario
Luigi
DK
Link
YL

DK should be below the Links for sure on the tier list. Not too sure if Zelda or GnW is better than him though overall.
I don't really think so. He has a much better time against top tier, imo, than any of them, barring the Links vs Jiggs MUs. DK's recovery, weight, speed, and power are considerably better than Link's and those are enough to keep DK above Link. Add to that a very decent grab and combo game and the reasons are set as to why DK is better than the Links.
 

Max?

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port priority stuff

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=294748

I don't really think so. He has a much better time against top tier, imo, than any of them, barring the Links vs Jiggs MUs. DK's recovery, weight, speed, and power are considerably better than Link's and those are enough to keep DK above Link. Add to that a very decent grab and combo game and the reasons are set as to why DK is better than the Links.
If GnW has a higher port priority than a number of characters, he will become instantly grounded after their respective dthrows. This applies to Doc, Mario and Samus off the top of my head, but there are more. He is typically able to react (be it a tech, get up or move) before his opponent, tho I'm not 100% sure about this.

Needless to say, vs. Doc it's very good because he loses Dthrow -> fair which KO's GnW at stupid low %'s. Even without that tho, GnW can barely recover vs. Doc, loses almost singlehandidly to his Ftilt and bair, and dies at relatively low % from Doc's good KO moves.


Also, lmfao at linking me to the tier list when putting up your list. I was putting up my list, which I feel is reflective of the current metagame. Doc's win and place well in tournaments/nationals (Shroomed/boss/me), there are like 10 solid/**** Samus's right now, Axe and Kage are both inconsistent and are the only true representation for their mains, there are a number of good Luigi's but none of them have placed super well at a National.

After that there is almost 0 representation for the remaining characters. Mario is clearly the best of the rest. 0 Links. Armada uses Y.Link I guess. Phish it is probably the only relevant DK in the US atm, but he hasn't ascended to the god tier level YET. Watching him at the last HoG was super impressive tho, you don't see DK's beating high level Sheik's on the regular.

But yeah, that's about it imo. It's all about representation, and the fact is that tier list is biased as ****.
 

phish-it

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DK should be below the Links for sure on the tier list. Not too sure if Zelda or GnW is better than him though overall.
I could see Link being debatable but Zelda? She is just too linear overall Dk is pretty linear in his approaches but overall he has more options and reliable set ups for kill moves.

Game and watch could have been a decent character but he has no defense and can't handle pressure of any kind. Once he loses control he gets ***** hard.

Also did you mean you think Dk vs G&W is 70/30 in G&W's favor?

And Max I had no idea that no bouncing had to do with port priority, thought it just always happened, I can't remember seeing him bounce from those throws. Yoshi's down throw does it too.

I'm not actually even good, ever since brawl I rarely feel solidly in practice at tournament (brawl rust, can never get rid of it), although I've been playing more actively in the last couple months.
 

Nedech

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I'd gladly stomp any GnW player if I ever go to USA. GnW is in no conceivable way a hassle for DK. =)
 

MEXICAN

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70/30? No way. I personally don't even think it's in gnw's favor. He dies fast, has just a bad of a shield as dk, dk lives forever, dk has a giant punch, etc etc. All i'm seeing here as an argument in gnw's favor is that he has a high priority f air. I'm sure you guys have much more than just that, but that's easily beatable. And marth dk is not a terrible matchup. I'd only slightly put it in marth's favor. Granted, at something like yoshi's story, yeah, it's a stupid matchup, but i'll take on any marth on final d...well, when i was actually good and still played that is. lol. Meh...why do I even post anymore? I don't even remember this game. lol. Sad day
 

KingofCereal

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Cheer up mexican, you're still a legend. Aside from punch what weapons does DK really have against marth? combos that work on fast fallers don't work, cargo up throw to f-air is pretty avoidable, and DK is a big target for spikes. I did see someone (strong bad?) u-air a marth to 80% for the kill on PS but that was a lucky combo thanks to really good reaction/terrible di. hmm.
 

MEXICAN

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Cheer up mexican, you're still a legend. Aside from punch what weapons does DK really have against marth? combos that work on fast fallers don't work, cargo up throw to f-air is pretty avoidable, and DK is a big target for spikes. I did see someone (strong bad?) u-air a marth to 80% for the kill on PS but that was a lucky combo thanks to really good reaction/terrible di. hmm.
U throw u air kills at around 100 on most stages, and dk just out survives marth. Marth doesn't have a solid way to kill dk once the damage is there. He has to get a f smash or u tilt at high damage. If the dk can ledge tech really well, he can survive to up to 200 damage. Oh, and a properly placed b air works really well on marth. Not to mention up b oos

:phone:
 

bubbaking

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Phish it is probably the only relevant DK in the US atm, but he hasn't ascended to the god tier level YET. Watching him at the last HoG was super impressive tho, you don't see DK's beating high level Sheik's on the regular.
Wait, no Strong Bad in this consideration?

cargo uthrow to fair is guaranteed.......
Huh? I thought everyone had agreed earlier that it was just a frame-trap...
 

KingofCereal

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Probably: Cargo Back/Forward throw -> f'air is DI able and not a true combo, while Cargo Up throw -> f'air is a combo, DI be damned!
 

Strong Badam

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Fair KO's or sets up for edgegaurding at around ~90%. Uair juggles and KO's the floaties you can't combo into Fair against. Pick your poison.
 

Strong Badam

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Giant Punch combos earlier than Fair does and kills much earlier. It's just not always charged.
I also had a case where I did cargo uthrow -> giant punch then died because you go into freefall afterward. UGHHGHH lost a money match because of it.
 

Strong Badam

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That's why you do a turnaround giant punch. You grab the ledge on the way down. lol
and hit with the shoulder hit and they survive


bubbaking: you go into freefall from any giant punch. additionally, almost-fully charged giant punch takes like ~10 extra frames to start, and it's only the shoulder hit that's stronger.
 

MEXICAN

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and hit with the shoulder hit and they survive

Not necessarily. You can hit with the strong part of. Also, it sometimes randomly will hit with full strength in the opposite direction, although I wouldn't count on it. And if your giant punch isn't fully charged, you might still even kill them off the top even if you DO hit with the shoulder. That's where you have to make a judgement call :)
 
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