Max?
Smash Champion
Agreed j00t. The Kong is pretty awful and overrated imo
and I say this as one of the few people in the country who uses him
and I say this as one of the few people in the country who uses him
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Q&A The official "Ask Your Questions" thread
- Thread starter MEXICAN
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I do not care about how good DK is, only about my own improvement in using him. Discussing how terrible he is does nothing in pursuit of that goal.
Max?
Smash Champion
After the auto 8 characters, it's probably like:
Doc
Samus
Pika
Ganon
Luigi
Mario
Y. Link
Link
DK
from there idk. I'd opt to put GnW above a lot of the other characters easily tho
Doc
Samus
Pika
Ganon
Luigi
Mario
Y. Link
Link
DK
from there idk. I'd opt to put GnW above a lot of the other characters easily tho
bubbaking
Smash Hero
What does port priority do specifically for G&W?
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=294748
After the top 8, it's this:
Doc
Ganon
Samus
Pika
Mario
Luigi
DK
Link
YL
I don't really think so. He has a much better time against top tier, imo, than any of them, barring the Links vs Jiggs MUs. DK's recovery, weight, speed, and power are considerably better than Link's and those are enough to keep DK above Link. Add to that a very decent grab and combo game and the reasons are set as to why DK is better than the Links.
Max?
Smash Champion
If GnW has a higher port priority than a number of characters, he will become instantly grounded after their respective dthrows. This applies to Doc, Mario and Samus off the top of my head, but there are more. He is typically able to react (be it a tech, get up or move) before his opponent, tho I'm not 100% sure about this.
Needless to say, vs. Doc it's very good because he loses Dthrow -> fair which KO's GnW at stupid low %'s. Even without that tho, GnW can barely recover vs. Doc, loses almost singlehandidly to his Ftilt and bair, and dies at relatively low % from Doc's good KO moves.
Also, lmfao at linking me to the tier list when putting up your list. I was putting up my list, which I feel is reflective of the current metagame. Doc's win and place well in tournaments/nationals (Shroomed/boss/me), there are like 10 solid/**** Samus's right now, Axe and Kage are both inconsistent and are the only true representation for their mains, there are a number of good Luigi's but none of them have placed super well at a National.
After that there is almost 0 representation for the remaining characters. Mario is clearly the best of the rest. 0 Links. Armada uses Y.Link I guess. Phish it is probably the only relevant DK in the US atm, but he hasn't ascended to the god tier level YET. Watching him at the last HoG was super impressive tho, you don't see DK's beating high level Sheik's on the regular.
But yeah, that's about it imo. It's all about representation, and the fact is that tier list is biased as ****.
phish-it
Smash Champion
I could see Link being debatable but Zelda? She is just too linear overall Dk is pretty linear in his approaches but overall he has more options and reliable set ups for kill moves.
Game and watch could have been a decent character but he has no defense and can't handle pressure of any kind. Once he loses control he gets ***** hard.
Also did you mean you think Dk vs G&W is 70/30 in G&W's favor?
And Max I had no idea that no bouncing had to do with port priority, thought it just always happened, I can't remember seeing him bounce from those throws. Yoshi's down throw does it too.
I'm not actually even good, ever since brawl I rarely feel solidly in practice at tournament (brawl rust, can never get rid of it), although I've been playing more actively in the last couple months.
Yes, in G&W's favor.
Bring it son
phish-it
Smash Champion
70/30 is about what I would consider the Sheik match up. I think that says enough.
MEXICAN
Smash Lord
70/30? No way. I personally don't even think it's in gnw's favor. He dies fast, has just a bad of a shield as dk, dk lives forever, dk has a giant punch, etc etc. All i'm seeing here as an argument in gnw's favor is that he has a high priority f air. I'm sure you guys have much more than just that, but that's easily beatable. And marth dk is not a terrible matchup. I'd only slightly put it in marth's favor. Granted, at something like yoshi's story, yeah, it's a stupid matchup, but i'll take on any marth on final d...well, when i was actually good and still played that is. lol. Meh...why do I even post anymore? I don't even remember this game. lol. Sad day
KingofCereal
Smash Journeyman
Cheer up mexican, you're still a legend. Aside from punch what weapons does DK really have against marth? combos that work on fast fallers don't work, cargo up throw to f-air is pretty avoidable, and DK is a big target for spikes. I did see someone (strong bad?) u-air a marth to 80% for the kill on PS but that was a lucky combo thanks to really good reaction/terrible di. hmm.
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cargo uthrow to fair is guaranteed.......
Green Ranger
Smash Journeyman
MEXICAN
Smash Lord
U throw u air kills at around 100 on most stages, and dk just out survives marth. Marth doesn't have a solid way to kill dk once the damage is there. He has to get a f smash or u tilt at high damage. If the dk can ledge tech really well, he can survive to up to 200 damage. Oh, and a properly placed b air works really well on marth. Not to mention up b oos
KingofCereal
Smash Journeyman
Very good to know.
bubbaking
Smash Hero
Wait, no Strong Bad in this consideration?
Huh? I thought everyone had agreed earlier that it was just a frame-trap...
phish-it
Smash Champion
Cargo Back/forward throw is, up throw is a combo on most characters.
bubbaking
Smash Hero
Ummmmm, I'm really not sure of what you mean, as in, I really don't know what you're trying to say.....at all. :/
KingofCereal
Smash Journeyman
Probably: Cargo Back/Forward throw -> f'air is DI able and not a true combo, while Cargo Up throw -> f'air is a combo, DI be damned!
bubbaking
Smash Hero
I see. So how do you decide whether you wanna uair or fair after a cargo uthrow?
N.A.G.A.C.E
Smash Champion
I dont play dk bubba,but my guess is u decided based on if up air will net u a combo which is worth it.
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Fair KO's or sets up for edgegaurding at around ~90%. Uair juggles and KO's the floaties you can't combo into Fair against. Pick your poison.
MEXICAN
Smash Lord
My poison is Cargo u throw Giant punch. Win?
bubbaking
Smash Hero
But Giant Punch probably isn't a combo, is it?
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Giant Punch combos earlier than Fair does and kills much earlier. It's just not always charged.
I also had a case where I did cargo uthrow -> giant punch then died because you go into freefall afterward. UGHHGHH lost a money match because of it.
I also had a case where I did cargo uthrow -> giant punch then died because you go into freefall afterward. UGHHGHH lost a money match because of it.
KingofCereal
Smash Journeyman
And you're just a little too far off to drift back to the stage. Hate it.
MEXICAN
Smash Lord
That's why you do a turnaround giant punch. You grab the ledge on the way down. lol
bubbaking
Smash Hero
Do you still go into freefall if you do an almost-charged Giant Punch? From what I understand, that's actually stronger than the fully-charged punch.
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and hit with the shoulder hit and they survive
bubbaking: you go into freefall from any giant punch. additionally, almost-fully charged giant punch takes like ~10 extra frames to start, and it's only the shoulder hit that's stronger.
bubbaking
Smash Hero
I see.....
MEXICAN
Smash Lord
Not necessarily. You can hit with the strong part of. Also, it sometimes randomly will hit with full strength in the opposite direction, although I wouldn't count on it. And if your giant punch isn't fully charged, you might still even kill them off the top even if you DO hit with the shoulder. That's where you have to make a judgement call
bubbaking
Smash Hero
Well, if it really does kill randomly kill in the opposite direction does that mean that randomly reverse-B'ing in that combo might pay off?
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It's not random; there's specific spacing to make it work.
MEXICAN
Smash Lord
I know, but I don't know the spacing for it, so for me it's random. =D
bubbaking
Smash Hero
Says one of the best DKs of all time.....
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It's close to the shoulder hit but not quite. Between shoulder & bicep.
bubbaking
Smash Hero
There is a sort of concept in the Smash community that pretty much every char below C tier is a gimmick (or is based on a gimmick). If that's the case, then what's DK's gimmick? He actually seems pretty normal to me (albeit greatly lacking in the shield department).