Q&A The official "Ask Your Questions" thread

[NJzFinest]

Here's my personal input on that match:

-When you back air and if it lands, make sure you quickly grab him afterward. I saw you back air him then do nothing, back air repetitively, and I saw you back air him, dash away, then dash back and grab (and that only worked because Falcon spot dodged after being hit).

- Since the falcon player looked pretty bad, I'm pretty sure this would work: cargo jump off stage to cargo down throw, then double jump nair (lesser experienced players almost always double jump right away). If he catches on, you can reverse charge punch and grab the edge, then do a ledge hopped aerial. You can also Up B gimp him.

- Throw out more Giant Punches.

- Light shield more, especially against a Falcon.

- Work more on your DK tech skill. There where times where your DK would stand still or accidentally walk. Practice being able to do actions as soon as possible right after the other; this can be as simple as dashing away after a missed L-canceled aerial to avoid punishment.

- Whenever you hit Falcon's shield or when he comes from above, don't forget you can intercept him with the invincible part of your Up B. It can easily get him off stage and you can simply edgeguard from there.

- Alot of Falcon's like to be dash dance campy and wait for missed aerials. Keeping in mind that, say... if you miss a Bair and you know the Falcon is going to try to take advantage of it, you can Ftilt in his direction right afterward to beat whatever he tries to do, or even do a quick dash A instead (which I prefer more since you can go into the opponents aerial and CC into a grab if you both get hit). I pretty much got this from Mexican lolz.

 

[otg]

Here's my personal input on that match:

-When you back air and if it lands, make sure you quickly grab him afterward. I saw you back air him then do nothing, back air repetitively, and I saw you back air him, dash away, then dash back and grab (and that only worked because Falcon spot dodged after being hit).

- Since the falcon player looked pretty bad, I'm pretty sure this would work: cargo jump off stage to cargo down throw, then double jump nair (lesser experienced players almost always double jump right away). If he catches on, you can reverse charge punch and grab the edge, then do a ledge hopped aerial. You can also Up B gimp him.

- Throw out more Giant Punches.

- Light shield more, especially against a Falcon.

- Work more on your DK tech skill. There where times where your DK would stand still or accidentally walk. Practice being able to do actions as soon as possible right after the other; this can be as simple as dashing away after a missed L-canceled aerial to avoid punishment.

- Whenever you hit Falcon's shield or when he comes from above, don't forget you can intercept him with the invincible part of your Up B. It can easily get him off stage and you can simply edgeguard from there.

- Alot of Falcon's like to be dash dance campy and wait for missed aerials. Keeping in mind that, say... if you miss a Bair and you know the Falcon is going to try to take advantage of it, you can Ftilt in his direction right afterward to beat whatever he tries to do, or even do a quick dash A instead (which I prefer more since you can go into the opponents aerial and CC into a grab if you both get hit). I pretty much got this from Mexican lolz.

Nice thanks for the advice. Now in terms of the Bair -> Grab, I've always wondered the best way to do this. As the Bair connects do I continue to DI behind him, or do I DD -> Grab?

Yeah Jona isn't the best, but neither is my DK lol. I'm also afraid to just throw out Giant Punch. Like I said I'm still getting used to the Big Ape, so I'm not to sure in what circumstances it's best to just throw out a Giant punch. Definitely need to light shield more, no argument there.

Thanks for the advice, I'll work on my fluidity and other little DK tricks.

 

[NJzFinest]

When you hit him with a bair, just run torwards him and immediately JC Grab. You can't really DI behind him since the Bair itself will push him away.
DD -> grab on it's own (no Bair) can sometimes be more effective actually.

And regarding the Giant Punch, think like.... Marth's Forward Smash... except, more range and power ^_^ Other then simply reading techs or little mistakes your opponent makes, if you think you're opponent is going to approach with a certain move, throw it out since it'll go through anything most characters have.
I'm actually more worried about being hit charging the punch lol.

 

[otg]

Very nice. I'll keep that in mind. My only problem with throwing out Donkey Punch is that you seem pretty vulnerable after throwing it out especially if your airborne. And yeah, with Marth I don't throw out Fsmash a lot either, I just don't trust it lol.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Gah, why does everyone call it the Donkey Punch?!

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

As the Bair connects do I continue to DI behind him, or do I DD -> Grab?

Neither, you just dash in the opposite direction you're facing and jc grab.
You need to smash the control stick far enough to trigger a dash in 1 frame to do this properly. Otherwise you'll have to go through the turning around animation (which is pretty long, long enough for him retaliate and roll away or hit you)
Also, if you jc grab during the turning animation you will grab in the direction you where originally facing
But if you smash the control stick all the way in 1 frame, you'll around turn immidietly

 

[JonaDiaper]

Since the falcon player looked pretty bad

that was me

im not that bad

 

[otg]

Neither, you just dash in the opposite direction you're facing and jc grab.
You need to smash the control stick far enough to trigger a dash in 1 frame to do this properly. Otherwise you'll have to go through the turning around animation (which is pretty long, long enough for him retaliate and roll away or hit you)
Also, if you jc grab during the turning animation you will grab in the direction you where originally facing
But if you smash the control stick all the way in 1 frame, you'll around turn immidietly

No yeah, I figured it out pretty quickly. Just didn't know it was possible to link Bair -> grab. Good stuff, got it down right away. I remember Mexican saying this doesn't work against Falco.

Any reason why?

 

[MEXICAN]

that sucks


Oh, and I've been meaning to ask this for awhile:

Do you buffer your light shields (use Z) or do you just lightly press L/R?

I've been in far to many situations where I press L/R too lightly and I end up having no shield come up. This is very annoying when playing against Spaceys and Ganons...

I lightly press R. If you don't have a good controller, the shield won't come out at all if you barely press it. If you're using a fairly new/good controller, it shouldn't be a problem if you have the pressure right.

Hey Mexican, do you have any advice for my DK's?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXw4ZLVecw8

I should've just posted this in your thread originally instead of making it's own thread lol.

Also, I'll upload some vids for you if you can't get anyone to do it.

It seems like NJzFinest got most of the general advice, i'll go into specific incidents.

:46- This is just an option, not a requirement, but i'd probably have gone for the up b right there. B air works too (assuming you hit it of course, lol), but up b has more knockback. I think the up b hits under the platform there. lol. If it doesn't, then nevermind, you made the right decision. lol

1:20- Oh come on, you could've survived that. lol. No real advice here, just make sure to di that and you can survive that.

2:22- Up b. Don't u tilt. U tilt is a bad move. It's never your best option. Unless your opponent is a complete idiot, you can't combo after it, and it has no ko potential. Up b was your best bet here.

2:31- You have a free hit here. You could either go for the b air, or up b. If i were in that situation, i'd probably try to fast fall my first b air to make sure i was below him by the time my b air lag was done, and then i'd jump and up b to hit him with the strong hit on my up b. This would have him farther out and set you up for an easy edgeguard.

Besides that, there's a few places where i think that you'd have a free n air, but other than that, NJ has it. Use your giant punch a lot more and no offense to Jona, but you need to play a better falcon to really get your experience and before we can give you real advice. It seems like Jona has too much of a habit of doing a dash dance, and then trying for a d air. He didn't really mix it up enough for you to really be challenged. Get some more vids and i'll help you out more.

Here's my personal input on that match:

-When you back air and if it lands, make sure you quickly grab him afterward. I saw you back air him then do nothing, back air repetitively, and I saw you back air him, dash away, then dash back and grab (and that only worked because Falcon spot dodged after being hit).

- Since the falcon player looked pretty bad, I'm pretty sure this would work: cargo jump off stage to cargo down throw, then double jump nair (lesser experienced players almost always double jump right away). If he catches on, you can reverse charge punch and grab the edge, then do a ledge hopped aerial. You can also Up B gimp him.

- Throw out more Giant Punches.

- Light shield more, especially against a Falcon.

- Work more on your DK tech skill. There where times where your DK would stand still or accidentally walk. Practice being able to do actions as soon as possible right after the other; this can be as simple as dashing away after a missed L-canceled aerial to avoid punishment.

- Whenever you hit Falcon's shield or when he comes from above, don't forget you can intercept him with the invincible part of your Up B. It can easily get him off stage and you can simply edgeguard from there.

- Alot of Falcon's like to be dash dance campy and wait for missed aerials. Keeping in mind that, say... if you miss a Bair and you know the Falcon is going to try to take advantage of it, you can Ftilt in his direction right afterward to beat whatever he tries to do, or even do a quick dash A instead (which I prefer more since you can go into the opponents aerial and CC into a grab if you both get hit). I pretty much got this from Mexican lolz.

Yup

Gah, why does everyone call it the Donkey Punch?!

I call it the Giant punch...

No yeah, I figured it out pretty quickly. Just didn't know it was possible to link Bair -> grab. Good stuff, got it down right away. I remember Mexican saying this doesn't work against Falco.

Any reason why?

It works on falco, thats IF you can ever set it up. I said it doesn't really work, because it's so difficult to get a b air off on falco in that type of situation. Usually, by the time you reach falco, you've been hit by at least one laser, and that turns you around to face him, taking away the possibility of getting off a b air. And falco doesn't stay on the ground long enough for you to b air him into a grab anyways, at least not decent to good falcos. So technically, YES, it will work, but i definitely wouldn't recommend going for that...You'll rarely ever be in that situation

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Yay Mexican =)

Does it make a difference if I say Mexican or MEXICAN?

Also, any thoughts about the new tier list?

 

[otg]

Thanks man. I'll hopefully have some vids up Vs. Jona's Falco and it's ALOT more interesting than this fight. Just gotta get my crew mate to stop being lazy.

 

[phish-it]

Off topic but By the way Otg, any word on those tournaments at Purchase you were talking about?

 

[MEXICAN]

Yay Mexican =)

Does it make a difference if I say Mexican or MEXICAN?

Also, any thoughts about the new tier list?

Its MEXICAN for me, Mexican if you're talking about the race. lol. And i think that this is the best tier list that they've made so far. I agree with it. I can't really think of any significant changes i'd make

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Oh, all right =)

 

[JonaDiaper]

Besides that, there's a few places where i think that you'd have a free n air, but other than that, NJ has it. Use your giant punch a lot more and no offense to Jona, but you need to play a better falcon to really get your experience and before we can give you real advice. It seems like Jona has too much of a habit of doing a dash dance, and then trying for a d air. He didn't really mix it up enough for you to really be challenged. Get some more vids and i'll help you out more.

omg omg omg i know i know i know i was just missing my raptor boost
game over for ur dk

im a good falcon, its just that one match.........i got ***** butttttt

raptor boost


DAM that font is huge. o well

 

[elvenarrow3000]

...I hope you're not serious, 'cause you definitely need more approaches than the dair and Raptor Boost...

Also, it's buuut, not buttt. You can't draw out the t sound.

So yeah.

 

[otg]

Jona get the **** over yourself. Jesus, it's ****ing embarrassing. Yes, I have crewmates that are in fact much better than Jona, we just happened to be recording that match at that time. No offense Jona, but once again you CAN'T let one move dictate your whole **** game.

 

[MEXICAN]

Jona get the **** over yourself. Jesus, it's ****ing embarrassing. Yes, I have crewmates that are in fact much better than Jona, we just happened to be recording that match at that time. No offense Jona, but once again you CAN'T let one move dictate your whole **** game.

Haha, its always fun having someone like him in the crew. Someone you can always beat up on if you ever lose a big match to make yourself feel better. Haha, i think i'd get too combo happy playing him. lol

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

I watched some of those vids, and since otg already got his advice ill give some to jona (doesnt exactly belong in this thread but whatever lol. green dk has been the best dk ever since smash64 btw. you had to turn on teams to be able to be green dk tho, which made it even more pro)

Jona, the most positive thing about your play was that your technical game is good. You're consistent with your shffl's and you dont miss many l cancels or anything like that. The only few times you did was when there shieldhitstun involved, so I suggest practicing shffling shields. (the easiest way to practice against shieldhitstun is to hit a dummy that has a starman)


Now, about what to improve:
First of all edgeguarding. When OTG recovered low you didn't seem to know what to do (you tried downsmash once, which doesnt work unless they recover absurdly high)
You should use almost always use utilt in these situations.
In fact, Utilt should be your standard edgeguard move. it reaches below the stage (It can hit sweetspotters), has a big hitbox and is powerful. Also, the leg will hit DK on his head (if he recovers low) so there is no risk to be hit by his swinging arms. Utilt is really good for edgeguarding, so use it.
Although, OTG didn't exactly sweetspot everytime so you could've done a down angled fsmash aswell (this will almost never work against someone who sweetspots properly, tho)
Also, against DK you can also stomp if you feel like it, depending on how good your opponent is at meteor canceling and/or edgeteching (stomp is much easier to edgetech then utilt)


But your biggest problem is that you just seem to be spamming stuff right in front of him and getting punished for it. Generally you shouldn't try to hit someone unless you're sure it's gonna hit. Unless you're baiting, but you where way to close for baiting, so he could punish you, and he did.
DK is slow, dash dance camp and wait for him to miss something and GRAB. Or time a raptor boost really well. You went for the stomp everytime he missed something which is almost never fast enough. Just grab instead.

Overall I think you played pretty well, you definetly got the tech skill down. You just need to be much more careful and space yourself better. Don't attack with something that you're not sure is gonna hit if he's close enough to punish you.

 

[otg]

Good advice Mike, but "I'm sorry". Blue Dk > Green DK.

 

[NJzFinest]

Guys, you know whenever people miss a tech (either on purpose or on accident) and with some characters, you can just jab them to force them to stand back up?

Well, this is AMAZING with DK.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

More amazing than with other characters, or just amazing in general?

 

[JonaDiaper]

...I hope you're not serious, 'cause you definitely need more approaches than the dair and Raptor Boost...

Also, it's buuut, not buttt. You can't draw out the t sound.

So yeah.

we'll get some matches recorded sunday if max has nothing else planned you'll see what i mean. and holy crap you right, about the but thing. good looks.

Jona get the **** over yourself. Jesus, it's ****ing embarrassing. Yes, I have crewmates that are in fact much better than Jona, we just happened to be recording that match at that time. No offense Jona, but once again you CAN'T let one move dictate your whole **** game.

raptor boost.

Haha, its always fun having someone like him in the crew. Someone you can always beat up on if you ever lose a big match to make yourself feel better. Haha, i think i'd get too combo happy playing him. lol

i 0-death combo'd his doc. i would do it to yours too ; )

I watched some of those vids, and since otg already got his advice ill give some to jona (doesnt exactly belong in this thread but whatever lol. green dk has been the best dk ever since smash64 btw. you had to turn on teams to be able to be green dk tho, which made it even more pro)

Jona, the most positive thing about your play was that your technical game is good. You're consistent with your shffl's and you dont miss many l cancels or anything like that. The only few times you did was when there shieldhitstun involved, so I suggest practicing shffling shields. (the easiest way to practice against shieldhitstun is to hit a dummy that has a starman).............

hey thanks man. the u tilt edge guard is gonna be my thing now. oh and that time that i downsmashed was that i was trying to dair him. but i guess i forgot to jump. spacing, less randomness. got it.

 

[NJzFinest]

More amazing than with other characters, or just amazing in general?

More amazing.

The main purpose of people using this is to get in a free grab (a good number of Sheik and Fox players use this), and we should all be aware of what DK can do once he lands a grab. Also, if you already have a Giant Punch charged... well, the rest should be self explanatory.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Cool beans, I'll try it out.

 

[MEXICAN]

i 0-death combo'd his doc. i would do it to yours too ; )

I don't use doc...and i'd LOVE to see you try to 0-death my DK. My DI is way to good to get hit with a 0-death. Betcha i could 0-death you though. =)

 

[Smooth Criminal]

I don't use doc...and i'd LOVE to see you try to 0-death my DK. My DI is way to good to get hit with a 0-death. Betcha i could 0-death you though. =)

MM?

>_____>

Lol. Yeah, right. I'd get wrecked six ways from Sunday.

Smooth Criminal

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Hey Smooth Criminal, who do you main, anyway?

And DK zero to deaths are scaaary things. I don't think I've gotten one of the fair/Giant Punch variety though... can never seem to get the finisher off =(

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

Off course DK can 0-death falcon. Cargo uthrow->CG/Uairs->Fair/Donkey punch. DI doesn't matter, it's still possible to 0-death >.>
And yhea, pulling off a 0-death with falcon against a DK that DI's correctly is impossible in almost all situations.

hey thanks man. the u tilt edge guard is gonna be my thing now. oh and that time that i downsmashed was that i was trying to dair him. but i guess i forgot to jump. spacing, less randomness. got it.

Glad to help. Yhea it makes sense you where trying in dair, it would've been a good move in that situation.

OTG-green DK will always be king. Why? He's mother****in' GREEN.

 

[otg]

OTG-green DK will always be king. Why? He's mother****in' GREEN.

Did you not read my essay on the Legend of the DKs? That **** is from the Bible man, it has to be true. Here I'll take the literal translation of the section on Blue DK:

' And the lord sayeth, let this monkey be Blue, and let him rule over all the Dk's with his mighty BFDD.'

Go check your gideon's bible son, page 430.

Now in my crewmates possesion right now, is the annual Blue Dk's vs. Betrayer Dk's competition to see who rules over the Kongs. Guess who wins?

Blue DKs. He never loses

 

[JonaDiaper]

I don't use doc...and i'd LOVE to see you try to 0-death my DK. My DI is way to good to get hit with a 0-death. Betcha i could 0-death you though. =)

betcha on a reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeealy good day i would 0-death you. and duh. dk vs falcon = 0-death fest. or 0- 70+ anyways. freakin dk's and i doesnt matter what color they are. its still a monkey.

 

[MEXICAN]

OTG-green DK will always be king. Why? He's mother****in' GREEN.

That and I use green DK and my DK kicks ***. lol

Did you not read my essay on the Legend of the DKs? That **** is from the Bible man, it has to be true. Here I'll take the literal translation of the section on Blue DK:

' And the lord sayeth, let this monkey be Blue, and let him rule over all the Dk's with his mighty BFDD.'

Go check your gideon's bible son, page 430.

Now in my crewmates possesion right now, is the annual Blue Dk's vs. Betrayer Dk's competition to see who rules over the Kongs. Guess who wins?

Blue DKs. He never loses

So how about my green DK vs your blue DK? We'll even make it a $100 money match since you're so confident in blue DK's abilities. And blue DK looks like crap dude. He looks like smurf ****

 

[otg]

That and I use green DK and my DK kicks ***. lol



So how about my green DK vs your blue DK? We'll even make it a $100 money match since you're so confident in blue DK's abilities. And blue DK looks like crap dude. He looks like smurf ****

LOL. IT HAS BEEN ANNOUNCED. Green Dks has just challenged the natural order of the Kongs. I hope your not taking my **** talk too seriously.

 

[MEXICAN]

LOL. IT HAS BEEN ANNOUNCED. Green Dks has just challenged the natural order of the Kongs. I hope your not taking my **** talk too seriously.

lol, not at all, just trying to prove a point

 

[NJzFinest]

DK has some of the worst colors lol.

Normal and black are the only good ones. I wish the yeti one from brawl was in Melee.

 

[ranmaru]

Haha, I usually just use regular, because of the color of his tie, and maybe blue. I like Dk, he is powerful and quick, god he rocks. :3

 

[otg]

Ok guys, got some more videos up. This is my Dk's vs. Jonas Falco on FD and DL.

FD - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCDgG5ktUsM
DL - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcAdQACK0Wk

Any comments and advice is appreciated, thanks.

Edit:

Oh yeah, I want to note that these vids are from the same smashfest as the ones I posted earlier. I used DK a lot tonight with the advice you guys gave me to great success (^.^)

 

[HomeMadeWaffles]

I don't use doc...and i'd LOVE to see you try to 0-death my DK. My DI is way to good to get hit with a 0-death. Betcha i could 0-death you though. =)

ill do it

Spoiler

not really hahahaha, jaime u know i love u hahaha, lets play this weekend

lets play this weekend hoe!!

 

[MEXICAN]

ill do it

Spoiler

not really hahahaha, jaime u know i love u hahaha, lets play this weekend

lets play this weekend hoe!!

Do what?........

 

[HomeMadeWaffles]

0 to death ur DK

Spoiler

not really