The Official Alabama Brawl Power Rankings UPDATED December 19, 2009

[Saki-]

lol alot of people were representing the _ during the crew battle.
Kola_ could be legit :o

and to bring up PR, I'm tempted to just pm people that are on the pr, and people considered asking for what Pika Cam wanted. Then again, I'd probably get ignored.

 

[DanGR]

I'm just surprised people took the past lists seriously even though there has never been a statement about the criteria for making the PR in the first place. What is it supposed to be based on?

• How well players have done in tournaments?
• How well players are capable of performing?
• Skill level?

I keep bringing this up every time we revise the list and nothing is written into the OP about it... Someone usually ends up telling me it's a combination of all three. Is it too difficult to ask for a little bit more objectivity?

Along with that, it seems like half the members of the current panel don't even play Brawl anymore... and a good portion of the people on the current PR list don't attend most of the tournaments in this state anyways... which brings up another point. Why are people adamant about keeping the same people in the same position on the list when it's clear that things have changed? I will never know.

I say we form a new panel, and then a mission statement- all while scratching the slate of bias clean, removing our preconceived notions about AL's many players from memory. Finally we can look at what actually happens at the few tournaments we have in this state from time to time and form a new list based on that data through DISCUSSION.

 

[munkus beaver]

DanGR, are you familiar with the term "You can't unring the bell"?

And you're asking a loaded question there, 'too difficult to ask for a little bit more objectivity'? It's a panel that determines rankings. Therefore it's a poll. We don't exactly have strength of schedule numbers here or favorable/disfavorable matchups lined out. I've always painstakingly rationalized each and every pick I've made and made an attempt to discuss my picks.

If you have some magical way to make the system better, why don't you outline it clearly instead of using the vague handwavings. Be clear, assert your points. Point out the flaws and explain your remedies. Here's all I understand from you right now:

Maybe we need more objectivity in the PR (I don't understand what this means)
The Panelists Don't Play Brawl (attendance in Alabama for tourneys has traditionally gone down during the fall and picked back up during the spring/summer. If you want to blame something, blame football)
People have a hard time giving up their preconceived notions. People should give up their preconceived notions and start anew! (This will always happen. You will never be able to have a tabula rasa with the PR opinions, unless the game is brand new. You can't just wave a magic wand and get rid of people's opinoins)
We need a mission statement (What are you trying to say here? I do not know. The OP has a mission statement if you look at it. It just doesn't have the words 'mission statement' there.)

 

[Pika_Cam]

I'm just surprised people took the past lists seriously even though there has never been a statement about the criteria for making the PR in the first place. What is it supposed to be based on?

• How well players have done in tournaments?
• How well players are capable of performing?
• Skill level?

I keep bringing this up every time we revise the list and nothing is written into the OP about it... Someone usually ends up telling me it's a combination of all three. Is it too difficult to ask for a little bit more objectivity?

Along with that, it seems like half the members of the current panel don't even play Brawl anymore... and a good portion of the people on the current PR list don't attend most of the tournaments in this state anyways... which brings up another point. Why are people adamant about keeping the same people in the same position on the list when it's clear that things have changed? I will never know.

I say we form a new panel, and then a mission statement- all while scratching the slate of bias clean, removing our preconceived notions about AL's many players from memory. Finally we can look at what actually happens at the few tournaments we have in this state from time to time and form a new list based on that data through DISCUSSION.

I agree, although I think it's hard to say that some people aren't where they should be. Take Reflex for example...

Dan, please post your recent tournament results. It should be based on tournament results, and who people have beaten recently. I think that's the only fair way to judge this. We can still have a panel, but I think we should let the community decide who that consists of. We may want to just form a panel now and give them the job of getting recent tournament results from players.

My question is, how far back in our tournament memory should we go. A lot can change in 6 months, so how far back should we take into consideration?

 

[DanGR]

DanGR, are you familiar with the term "You can't unring the bell"?

And you're asking a loaded question there, 'too difficult to ask for a little bit more objectivity'? It's a panel that determines rankings. Therefore it's a poll. We don't exactly have strength of schedule numbers here or favorable/disfavorable matchups lined out. I've always painstakingly rationalized each and every pick I've made and made an attempt to discuss my picks.

If you have some magical way to make the system better, why don't you outline it clearly instead of using the vague handwavings. Be clear, assert your points. Point out the flaws and explain your remedies. Here's all I understand from you right now:

Maybe we need more objectivity in the PR (I don't understand what this means)
The Panelists Don't Play Brawl (attendance in Alabama for tourneys has traditionally gone down during the fall and picked back up during the spring/summer. If you want to blame something, blame football)
People have a hard time giving up their preconceived notions. People should give up their preconceived notions and start anew! (This will always happen. You will never be able to have a tabula rasa with the PR opinions, unless the game is brand new. You can't just wave a magic wand and get rid of people's opinoins)
We need a mission statement (What are you trying to say here? I do not know. The OP has a mission statement if you look at it. It just doesn't have the words 'mission statement' there.)

You're right. I should back up what I'm saying. It's late right now though, so I'll try to address all of my points tomorrow, if that's fine. ;/

I agree, although I think it's hard to say that some people aren't where they should be. Take Reflex for example...

Dan, please post your recent tournament results. It should be based on tournament results, and who people have beaten recently. I think that's the only fair way to judge this. We can still have a panel, but I think we should let the community decide who that consists of. We may want to just form a panel now and give them the job of getting recent tournament results from players.

My question is, how far back in our tournament memory should we go. A lot can change in 6 months, so how far back should we take into consideration?

I'll gather my results once a panel is formed and the criteria for the PR is set. Right now though, it seems pretty unlikely we'll even update this thing soon.

 

[shaSLAM]

i guess let's update since the last time it was updated.
i mean like... go that far back in tournament results.

and idk man. someone needs to man up and be on the panel already if we ever want a PR change.
the only reason i would see it entirely neccesary is that most of the people on it have said they want to quit barwl. so like... wtf.

 

[I SEE YOU]

If you haven't been to a tournament since the last TCS you shouldn't have a say so in the PR because you are inactive. This is not targeted at anyone in particular, but if you don't attend tournaments consistently then you are inactive. I know that my brother, Dan, Billy, and most of hoover has been going to tournaments. If you guys are planning on having a panel that's cool, but don't put anyone on there who hasn't been to tournaments and haven't seen everyone play recently.

 

[Saki-]

Well, that would only mark out Munkus Beaver, and he seems to be one of the few current panelist that actually care. :l

I'll wait for DanGR's updated post to say more.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Well, that would only mark out Munkus Beaver, and he seems to be one of the few current panelist that actually care. :l

I'll wait for DanGR's updated post to say more.

When's the last time that George has been to a tournament? T1J? moogle?

Not trying to point fingers--I'm genuinely curious, is all.

 

[Saki-]

George attended Karate Explosion for singles & doubles, and Teamwork Makes the Dreamwork for doubles
T1J Attended Karate Explosion for Singles and Doubles
Moogle Attended Teamwork makes the Dreamwork for Doubles and singles

 

[Pika_Cam]

Although I think it can help a more informed decision if a panelist had been to a tournament recently, I don't know how much it really matters. On the one hand, they get to see firsthand some of the potential PR players. On the other hand, most panelists end up not seeing everyone and some even mention their bias against those they haven't seen play versus those they have.

 

[munkus beaver]

"I'm not trying to point fingers here, but munkus is the only one that fits in my general parameters for exclusion."


D:

Seriously though, if you do have an issue with me giving my opinions, go ahead and be direct. I'm a big boy, I can handle it.

 

[Saki-]

Heh well like I stated before, I'd be willing to give opinions. I've played all but one person on that PR that isn't cancelled. Along with the people considered.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

"I'm not trying to point fingers here, but munkus is the only one that fits in my general parameters for exclusion."


D:

Seriously though, if you do have an issue with me giving my opinions, go ahead and be direct. I'm a big boy, I can handle it.

>_>

I just wasn't sure if the others hadn't gone to a tournament in ages. I am fairly confident that you haven't. If I'm incorrect, my mistake.

I'm pretty sure that the others haven't, either...

If any of you have been going to tournaments, then you have some merit. I wasn't attempting to sidestep any issues.

 

[Saki-]

Reflex-TWMDW, TTSFG
Will_-KE
George-KE, TWMDW(d only)
DanGR- TWMDW, TTSFG
Elev8- TTSFG
Moogle- TWMDW
Nice1- seven cancelled
MunkusBeaver- None in hoover, but it was football season
T1J-KE
PikaCam- Ten cancelled

There ya go, the entire current PR's activity (in state) unless someone went to Arcade stix and hasn't notified me about that lol

 

[Pika_Cam]

I went with Billy to a tournament in Columbus, but I doubt that counts. I'd rather not remember how awful I did anyway.

And it's Cam good sir, not PikaCam.

 

[Saki-]

Oh ok, lol sorry about that I have this bad habit of typing out names like that.

Btw I just noticed, all but 2 PR members went to the TCS tournament. We need a tournament with a sexy tournout like that again next year.

 

[Pika_Cam]

TCS V or TCS VI?

 

[Saki-]

TCS VI
we even had some GA love at that one.

 

[Pika_Cam]

Yeah, I was at TCS V but not TCS VI.

 

[I SEE YOU]

Me being direct~
Munkus~ it's been awhile since you've been to a tournament
Moogle~ Karate Explosion (1 tournament)
T1J~ Karate Explosion (1 tournament)
George~ Karate Explosion (1 tournament)

As of late there have been more tournaments thanks to Jason, but there is still a problem afoot, everyone is not showing up. There is no point in having biweeklies if people are not showing up. If we want to have a competitive scene in AL, then those of us that play need to come to the tournaments that are offered. How can we increase attendants? Jason start announcing your date earlier on the AL social board, or on here and see what everyone thinks. Let's start trying to pick a day and time that allows the maximum amount of players to show up.
~Having a competitive scene~ I want to have ppl start entertaining the idea of traveling more for tournaments. Atlanta has monthly tournaments and me and my brother are willing to house ppl so AL players need to try and carpool their way to my house on a friday or something, so we can all cruise to tournaments on a saturday (this idea is directed more to players in Bham area) If you are in Mobile or Tuscaloosa and are interested in going to Tallahassee tournaments then let's go! I want AL to become more competitive and with this thread showing some life, I think now can be the time for us to start.

To the a fore mentioned players~ Munkus, Moogle, T1J, George, and even myself

I know that you guys have been busy with school, work, and just lack of interest in the game, but i don't think you guys should make up a panel, because you haven't seen everyone play lately. I guess this info really only pertains to Munkus, because you are the only one of the 4 players mentioned that actually post in this thread, but i stand by my statement. With that said, i'm glad that you are showing interest in this thread and hope to see you at upcoming tournaments.

Current PR
If you are not active in recent tournament play, then i don't think you should be on the PR.
I think the PR should make up the top ten players at the time, that's why it gets updated and that's why ours needs to be updated.

 

[Saki-]

Hmm theres alot I'd like to say in response to this, but I think it would distract people from your great point.

1st: Will has also been inactive, but we can't be inclined to take him off because of that can we? We would be making the list consist of players who aren't even past the "average" level yet. Like myself.

2nd: I'm willing to bet some spending money that if tournaments were hosted in say the Huntsville and Tuscaloosa area's a few of us Hoover players wouldn't be as near as active. Zero_Gamer and myself cant even drive due to the lack of cars, and in my case the lack of a drivers license (parent johns). So we would have players like Inguilt, Blake, General Mills on there over players that have beaten them pretty badly at TCS events.

3rd: I love the idea of housing to go to Waba weeklies with you guys <3 I'd be good in no time!

4th: What should we do about players from Mobile? They have had 2 tournaments since our last update.

5th: who will the new panel be if we're going to cut out the inactive?
DanGR would be the only previous one staying on meaning we'd have to find at least 2 more people to fill the minimal requirements posting on the mission statement thread. Is there a way to tryout?

I'm sorry for posting this in response to your great post, I just thought it had to be pointed out.

Oh and I made a PR for this situation and saved it just incase someone gave me the freedom to do so. It seems possible...maybe. But it's too early to start the list anyway.

1.Reflex
2.Will_
3. DanGR
4. Elev8
5. BiLLy
6. George
7. ShaSlam
8. TheBrownScourge
9. CHEAP PEACH
10. Zero_Gamer

 

[Pika_Cam]

I would not cut Munkus out. Nice1, T1J, Moogle, and I make sense, but Munkus has not gone downhill in recent tournaments like Moogle and T1J. I honestly think Munkus going through Cheap and Scourge at TCS V, and beating George recently at TCS VI proves his skill under tournament pressure. He's been a little inactive, but he should not go off.

Also, if you watch some of his matches, you'll notice how incredibly resilient he is to losing in tournament when the match or even the crowd is against him. I think people are quick to be down on him because he uses MK, but last time I checked, MK is not banned.

EDIT: He also apparently beat Elev8 at that tournament.

 

[Saki-]

I was hesitant about replacing beaver, and to some extent janitor, and like I pointed out he still is one of the few who actually cares that's on the current panelist.
Wheres Dan and that detailed post?

 

[Pika_Cam]

It's not a matter of how much he cares about the PR, otherwise you, me, and slam would be the top 3 because I think we've all obsessed about it at one point or another.

Munkus has proven in tournament that he's good, and I think August is recent enough to keep him on the list. We should set some sort of standard though for inactivity. How long does a person have to be inactive before we kick them off the list entirely?

 

[munkus beaver]

I don't think you guys are on the same page.

Panelist for the Power Rankings is one thing.

The Power Rankings are an entirely different thing.

How much I care about the game has nothing to do with whether I should be on the Power Rankings.

You could argue that it does have something to do on whether I should be a panelist.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

It's not about caring about the Power Rankings, but being respected players that regularly go to tournaments is very important.

If a person hasn't been to a tournament in two months, then they shouldn't even be considered, I think.

That's the primary way of looking at skill levels and deciding where to place them, after all.

 

[munkus beaver]

2 months? Really? How many tourneys have there been in the Alabama scene in the past two months? In the past three? How many major tourneys in Alabama have I missed out on since TCS?

Honest questions there, which haven't been answered.

It's a little absurd to say that you have to go to one every two months if there have only been two tournies in the past three, for example.

 

[Pika_Cam]

I agree, that's pretty absurd Reflex.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

2 months? Really? How many tourneys have there been in the Alabama scene in the past two months? In the past three? How many major tourneys in Alabama have I missed out on since TCS?

Honest questions there, which haven't been answered.

It's a little absurd to say that you have to go to one every two months if there have only been two tournies in the past three, for example.

Mobile has had at least two. Zero Gamer has had two, I think.

Perhaps three months, but any more than that is a stretch. If people have to go any further than that to make it reasonable, then maybe the scene is so small that we shouldn't have Power Rankings at all. :/

 

[Saki-]

Mobile has had 2, Zero had 3
We haven't had a major one since TCS

We have like 22 brawlers that would actually play the game I think

 

[munkus beaver]

I've generally split up the year into three smash 'seasons' that tend to correspond with activity. Summer, Fall, and Spring.

There are less tournies to even go to during the fall. I planned on going to one in Huntsville (before I had an allergic reaction to some medication) that was canceled due to not enough players. This may reek of bias, but I am less inclined to punish for inactivity during the fall season because the tourneys have a traditionally low turnout.

Notice that there hasn't been a major Alabama tourney since TCS, which is still an important tourney no matter how you slice it.

 

[Saki-]

Winter season may be a bit depressing due to the whole holiday issue, and not to mention most of us will be mind ****ed due to finals. When does the spring start in your opinion?

 

[munkus beaver]

January 15th. There is no winter season of smash to me, because once you hit Thanksgiving you can't reasonable expect people to attend tourneys. At all. It's just a long stretch of holidays and exams

 

[shaSLAM]

kola, just beacuse someone goes like 2 months without going to a ournament does not automatically exclude them from the PR.
the PR isn't just a list of the very active players.
it's a list of good players.

will_ is not inactive -.-
and im pretty sure if someone wants to quit they will let us know, which munkus has not let us know and neither have some other people.

but i like being number 7 hahahahaha

if anything i guess put munkus on pretty high and take zero off. no hate zero.

 

[munkus beaver]

I'll accept the criticisms of me, but I'm starting to get annoyed. I'm still waiting for Elev8 to actually post his record from his recent tourneys in the manner that Cam put forth. And for either him or Reflex or somebody to do the same for Billy. It'd be far more helpful and conducive to making the PR list if the results were posted instead of hearing vague talk about how my record at TCS VI doesn't matter.

EDIT: And I should listen to myself for a moment here. Here's my contribution to what Kola said:

For the most part, barring who was not included in that list, I think it's fairly accurate. The complete and total lack of information posted for Billy or statistics for Billy make it impossible to really determine, for me, if his placement is accurate.

And no, I do not think it is required to see someone play the game to figure out where they should place on the list. Yes, it's extremely helpful, but it's not required. For all that I've been playing of this game for three years, I have yet to see Reflex at a major Alabama tourney that I have gone to. This hasn't stopped him from ranking me on his list or me from ranking him on mine. I'd assume that, barring actually playing me or seeing me play, he'd let my record against my opponents speak for itself.

Based on his posted record, I think shaslam should be on the list, and should be higher than Scourge. I agree with his placement right now based on its relative position to the other players on the list.

 

[DanGR]

Wheres Dan and that detailed post?

D:

It's not too detailed. I just wanted to clarify a couple things... >_>

Maybe we need more objectivity in the PR (I don't understand what this means)

By objectivity I suppose I meant clarity.

For starters need to follow something like this: (particularly #1)
http://www.smashboards.com/announcement.php?f=91&a=72

We need to decide what we're ranking in the first place, and describe it with clarity.

The Panelists Don't Play Brawl (attendance in Alabama for tourneys has traditionally gone down during the fall and picked back up during the spring/summer. If you want to blame something, blame football)

There is no excuse. If so few panelists will travel to tournaments then they won't be able to talk intelligently about those tournaments and the players in them. If we can't find enough active players then we shouldn't even have a panel in the first place. It wouldn't sense to have one.

People have a hard time giving up their preconceived notions. People should give up their preconceived notions and start anew! (This will always happen. You will never be able to have a tabula rasa with the PR opinions, unless the game is brand new. You can't just wave a magic wand and get rid of people's opinoins)

This is necessary to have an accurate list. Too difficult? This won't be accurate then. It's that simple. What we definitely can do is try to be as impartial as we can and avoid saying things like "This player seems really good; he just doesn't do very well in tournament matches for some reason."

And as an example of this, I've been PLEADING for everyone to take me as what I actually am as a player right now. I don't deserve 3rd. Only the people that actually travel to most of the tournaments would know this. That or someone explain to me why I'm wrong. Instead I get everyone telling me I'm 3rd or that I'm scary to fight. >.>

 

[stealth3654]

3rd: I love the idea of housing to go to Waba weeklies with you guys <3 I'd be good in no time!

This!!!! It would be great for GA and AL to compete with each other. Also, don't go to the weeklies, go to the monthlies. If you guys do go, I have to show you guys Emerald China.

Hmmm.... Now that I'm here, I guess I'll post my tourney results from when I moved to Auburn.

TCS VI: In pools, I forgot who I beat, but I lost to BigLou, George, and Scourge. So I didn't make it out of pools.

Are You Ready For This?: I came in 3rd.
-I beat Phire, Fake George (Losers bracket), Holy Chef, and DanGR.
-I lost to Fake George (Winners bracket) and I think Kismet.

Smash or Die 8: I came in 5th.
-I beat Devin (who came down from SC)
-Lost to Scatt and Kismet.

Halloween Bash: I came in 9th.
-I can't remember all who I beat. I only remember beating Deo, and all but Seibirk in my pools.
-I lost to Seibrik in pools. Then I lost to BigLou and Sex Puma.

Teamwork Makes the Dream Work: I came in 3rd.
-Can't remember all who I beat, but I beat Moogle
-Lost to Reflex and Kismet

Columbus tournament at Columbus State University: Came in 3rd.
-Can't remember all who I beat, but I beat DanGR and Kismet
-Lost to Reflex and Kismet

This Tastes so F*cking Good!?: I came in 3rd.
-I beat Scourge, and ShaSlam
Lost to Reflex and Kismet

By the way, my tag is Billy and I main Sheik/Zelda and Falco. I also play a little bit of Snake for fun.

 

[munkus beaver]

It would be easier to tell you why you deserve to be ranked in any particular position if you would post the information that Cam politely asked you to post.

The reason why I tend to rank you high is because you have generally performed consistently against a high level of competition. In high pressure tourney scenarios you have shined like a diamond. At the last major Alabama tourney, TCS VI, you placed highest out of all Alabama participants, including Will_.

If you want to prove me wrong, go ahead. Post that data. You want to downplay yourself, that's you prerogative. But you're being just as guilty as those you criticize. Where are your reasons why you don't deserve 3rd? Where are your clear arguments of clarity as to why you should be ranked lower than third?

(This post is directed toward DanGR. Thank you for posting that information, Billy. It will be very helpful).

 

[TheReflexWonder]

This!!!! It would be great for GA and AL to compete with each other. Also, don't go to the weeklies, go to the monthlies. If you guys do go, I have to show you guys Emerald China.

Hmmm.... Now that I'm here, I guess I'll post my tourney results from when I moved to Auburn.

TCS VI: In pools, I forgot who I beat, but I lost to BigLou, George, and Scourge. So I didn't make it out of pools.

Are You Ready For This?: I came in 3rd.
-I beat Phire, Fake George (Losers bracket), Holy Chef, and DanGR.
-I lost to Fake George (Winners bracket) and I think Kismet.

Smash or Die 8: I came in 5th.
-I beat Devin (who came all the way down from NC)
-Lost to Scatt and Kismet.

Halloween Bash: I came in 9th.
-I can't remember all who I beat. I only remember beating Deo, and all but Seibirk in my pools.
-I lost to Seibrik in pools. Then I lost to BigLou and Sex Puma.

Teamwork Makes the Dream Work: I came in 3rd.
-Can't remember all who I beat, but I beat Moogle
-Lost to Reflex and Kismet

Columbus tournament at Columbus State University: Came in 3rd.
-Can't remember all who I beat, but I beat DanGR and Kismet
-Lost to Reflex and Kismet

This Tastes so F*cking Good!?: I came in 3rd.
-I beat Scourge, and ShaSlam
Lost to Reflex and Kismet

By the way, my tag is Billy and I main Sheik/Zelda and Falco. I also play a little bit of Snake for fun.

****--Calvin has it out for you.