The North Carolina Melee Power Rankings! Updated 8/14/14!

[TheLastCacely]

**** everyone.

 

[Lightsyde]

Peach's Dtilt is so bull****. It's easier to land than a stomp (wd back -> dtilt or as a shield poke after Peach's broken shield pressure derpderpderp) and has as much as if not more hitstun. So dumb.

 

[Juno McGrath]

Peach's Dtilt is so bull****. It's easier to land than a stomp (wd back -> dtilt or as a shield poke after Peach's broken shield pressure derpderpderp) and has as much as if not more hitstun. So dumb.

Wow here we go...again.

sigh.

 

[Ocean]

 

[Peach Dtilt]

Peach's Dtilt is so bull****. It's easier to land than a stomp (wd back -> dtilt or as a shield poke after Peach's broken shield pressure derpderpderp) and has as much as if not more hitstun. So dumb.

**** you man, what did i ever do to you? I graduated from brown with a 3.7 GPA and I teach philosophy at a local college. You can go get ****ed. You think im dumb? your the one getting hit by my slow, non frame advantage ***.

I was going to ask you to team at duke man. Now i just dont know...


/name search.

 

[Juno McGrath]

**** you man, what did i ever do to you? I graduated from brown with a 3.7 GPA and I teach philosophy at a local college. You can go get ****ed. You think im dumb? your the one getting hit by my slow, non frame advantage ***.

I was going to ask you to team at duke man. Now i just dont know...


/name search.

Omg fizz, rofl...

in tears right now.

 

[TheLastCacely]

clearly that was snap :/

 

[Juno McGrath]

actually it wasnt me. lol. the person it was just told me.

 

[Dr Peepee]

"Easier to land than a stomp." Okay, well that doesn't actually mean anything since comparing one particular move of one character to a move of another to make one move look good seems completely silly.

"Pichu's Upsmash hits way more often than Mario's Dtilt, so Pichu's broken."

It is pretty much commonly accepted that Peach is an overall better character than Falcon anyway.

It's a good move and stuns, but it's a low sweeping(go over it?) move that can be baited and punished for sure.

 

[Juno McGrath]

Im glad that the entire falco vs peach / falcon vs peach metagame/matchups are determined by how hard joshua gets beat up on by dop.

 

[Moophobia]

Im glad that the entire falco vs peach / falcon vs peach metagame/matchups are determined by how hard joshua gets beat up on by dop.

If only it were facebook

 

[Dr Peepee]

To be fair, people can only determine matchups to an extent by what they experience.

That said, it's still a good idea to see what other people think and consider their ideas so you can reaffirm/alter your ideas as needed.

Also, videos are great at helping with this stuff, but not necessarily in a "this person beat this person so this character wins!!!!!1" way(ps that's really annoying to me so stop doing that). You look at why people lose matches and what happened to them to make them lose, and then you can extend such circumstances/scenarios/strategies to your idea of what the matchup is.

For example, if you see Mango doing lots of FH stomp in Falcon dittos vs SS(he does this in that hyped Falcon ditto set they did last year), then what might that say about the matchup? Is coming in high actually good sometimes, despite the typical conception of "being above Falcon is bad?"

Food for thought.

 

[Juno McGrath]

If only it were facebook

 

[Diatenshi]

To be fair, people can only determine matchups to an extent by what they experience.

That said, it's still a good idea to see what other people think and consider their ideas so you can reaffirm/alter your ideas as needed.

Also, videos are great at helping with this stuff, but not necessarily in a "this person beat this person so this character wins!!!!!1" way(ps that's really annoying to me so stop doing that). You look at why people lose matches and what happened to them to make them lose, and then you can extend such circumstances/scenarios/strategies to your idea of what the matchup is.

For example, if you see Mango doing lots of FH stomp in Falcon dittos vs SS(he does this in that hyped Falcon ditto set they did last year), then what might that say about the matchup? Is coming in high actually good sometimes, despite the typical conception of "being above Falcon is bad?"

Food for thought.

IN GENERALLLL

be better, then win

then ***** about characters if ur better and u lose

but how can you be better and lose

o.0

 

[bossa nova ♪]

i like NC more, hey



freal though, im happy as **** we got sneak here. if any of u wanna know how to act get at that northerner.... he'll set u tristraight ;]]

 

[Lightsyde]

Im glad that the entire falco vs peach / falcon vs peach metagame/matchups are determined by how hard joshua gets beat up on by dop.

Yo let me know when you and Zach get done sucking each other's ***** every time the other posts.

Btw, I beat Dop several times with Falco today, thanks.

 

[Juno McGrath]

Peach is the best character in super smash bros melee, thanks


-moo


Edit: tap out shirt

 

[Lightsyde]

Peach is not the best, I just think she has a lot of broken **** and that she beats Falco pretty solidly. That's all. I posted long explanations as to why I thought this and the only person who had any intelligent response was Kevin. Dylan doesn't understand the match up.

 

[stingers]

being above the lasers isnt even a good position. its just another option compared to shielding them all and trying to approach. lasers are for stage control, either way whether you're floating above them or grounded they're still controlling the area you can inhabit. falco beats peach tbqh

 

[Lightsyde]

being above the lasers isnt even a good position. its just another option compared to shielding them all and trying to approach. lasers are for stage control, either way whether you're floating above them or grounded they're still controlling the area you can inhabit. falco beats peach tbqh

I disagree completely. Being above the lasers is an AMAZING position. Whenever I play Aasem, he floats above lasersand at a diagonal angle where none of my aerials can hit him (shoot lasers at a super weird timing out of a double jump which is really awkward and typically unsafe on every stage by DL) or wait for the float to end and try to do something from there (Peach has pretty much all her normal defensive options from here).

 

[stingers]

being above the lasers floating removes 2 of the best options against falco, shield and dash attack. you can't even double jump cuz then falco can just **** you when you're falling...and falco just has to get above you and dair and peach has no options while floating. you dont have to approach from fox nair angle, play like a falco and spam dair =[

 

[Dr Peepee]

being above the lasers isnt even a good position. its just another option compared to shielding them all and trying to approach. lasers are for stage control, either way whether you're floating above them or grounded they're still controlling the area you can inhabit. falco beats peach tbqh

Falco can't get up there to challenge Peach's float at all without her hitting him(he's slow as it is and definitely can't fall on her). Peach effectively controls Falco by floating, and if she's shielding then she definitely has answers to his pressure(even if he baits her Nair OOS she can still DJC an aerial back in or away to keep Falco guessing....this is ignoring her amazing shield/shield game in the first place).

How does Falco have stage control when Peach floats over lasers and throws a turnip where Falco would jump into if he tried to retreat/laser? Lasers are used to force Peach to float or move or get stuck, and sometimes you can't control which one you get. Peach can jab/Dsmash out of laser stun pretty effectively anyway I think(Mike G was taking laser hits and jabbing me when I went for grabs).

I don't know who actually wins, but that argument isn't supporting you.


Edit: a counterargument being "Dair above Peach/spam Dair" doesn't work because Dair has to hit at a certain angle on Peach(just in front of her head) to be safe, and Peach can manipulate that space/punish Dair well. Also, getting Dair'd out of your float below like 55% or something gives you no stun so you can Dsmash Falco and make him feel bad for having a good move.

 

[Todd Bonney]

Falco ***** Peach. Peach takes skill, and down smash is not broken.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Why does Falco **** Peach?

 

[Lightsyde]

being above the lasers floating removes 2 of the best options against falco, shield and dash attack. you can't even double jump cuz then falco can just **** you when you're falling...and falco just has to get above you and dair and peach has no options while floating. you dont have to approach from fox nair angle, play like a falco and spam dair =[

You're not understanding. If you float in the correct area, Falco CANNOT hit you with a regular aerial. I had never encountered it until I played against Aasem so I know that neither you, David, Stephen or Dylan know exactly how to do it. Because of Falco's slow horizontal run and jump height he cannot hit this particular diagonal area in front of him. So his lasers don't hit and neither do shff'ld aerials or full hop Dairs, especially if they are floating under platforms. If you try to approach Peach in this position, she can punish really hard with a falling Fair. If you try to land on a platform above her, she can react to it with an aerial.

EDIT: Thank you, Kevin. That is what I've been trying to say.

 

[Ocean]

[deleted.]

 

[stingers]

lol peach cant nair oos against a falco who's shield pressuring properly, literally the only thing u can do is roll. if they misspace or **** up their tech skill then you can nair or up b.

falco's rising speed is what makes the difference. peach has to predict when falco will jump to beat it out with fair. its so fast you cant react. obviously if the falco is waiting until the float runs out to jump up then you will lose because its hella obvious when you can beat it out with fair. otherwise the falco has the mental/stage advantage. nair is too small against a rising falco, unless they are close enough to where they could uair, to be honest. but uair sucks

 

[Dr Peepee]

lol peach cant nair oos against a falco who's shield pressuring properly, literally the only thing u can do is roll. if they misspace or **** up their tech skill then you can nair or up b.

falco's rising speed is what makes the difference. peach has to predict when falco will jump to beat it out with fair. its so fast you cant react. obviously if the falco is waiting until the float runs out to jump up then you will lose because its hella obvious when you can beat it out with fair. otherwise the falco has the mental/stage advantage. nair is too small against a rising falco, unless they are close enough to where they could uair, to be honest. but uair sucks

up-B comes out in like 3 frames and, no matter how Falco pressures a shield, THERE IS AN EASY WINDOW TO HIT THAT TIMING IN. Nair OOS is pretty fast too and can definitely work on solid shield pressure, but you'd have to do it earlier these days, which I don't think most Peaches(besides Armada probably) get yet.

How in the world is Falco gonna trick Peach with his vertical speed and get a hit when his horizontal speed makes his decision to approach so obvious? Rising Falco using what move? Nair mayyyybe, but even then it probably is too slow(move sticks out kinda under Falco so Peach has it easy Fair'ing over it and stuff....aside from the easy getting out of the way thing).

 

[Lightsyde]

lol peach cant nair oos against a falco who's shield pressuring properly, literally the only thing u can do is roll. if they misspace or **** up their tech skill then you can nair or up b.

falco's rising speed is what makes the difference. peach has to predict when falco will jump to beat it out with fair. its so fast you cant react. obviously if the falco is waiting until the float runs out to jump up then you will lose because its hella obvious when you can beat it out with fair. otherwise the falco has the mental/stage advantage. nair is too small against a rising falco, unless they are close enough to where they could uair, to be honest. but uair sucks

Actually, you are completely incorrect.

Peach can ALWAYS UpB out of Falco's Pillar shield pressure. I don't even bother doing it to Aasem anymore. I always just go for the shine grab. That just means you don't know the timing.

Peach does NOT have to predict anything. She can completely react to his approach; again, Aasem does it to me ALL the time. I have to try to predict when his float runs out all the time and he does smart things to keep from getting hit when it does run out. Rising Falco CANNOT hit Peach for the reasons I already mentioned.

EDIT: Again, Kevin posts basically the same thing I do. I wish people would realize that I know what I'm talking about. Aasem is the ONLY Peach in NC who knows how to play the match up at all.

 

[stingers]

if they're floating right above sh laser height you can just dd and jump in with a dair. if they're floating at like above yoshis platform height then you can just running fh and be over peach at your apex when she can't fair you while you're rising UNLESS she predicts ur jump and moves forward. if the peach was moving forward originally then u just retreat or some ****, idk thats a different situation entirely.

 

[AlcyoNite]

Actually, you are completely incorrect.

Peach can ALWAYS UpB out of Falco's Pillar shield pressure. I don't even bother doing it to Aasem anymore. I always just go for the shine grab. That just means you don't know the timing.

Peach does NOT have to predict anything. She can completely react to his approach; again, Aasem does it to me ALL the time. I have to try to predict when his float runs out all the time and he does smart things to keep from getting hit when it does run out. Rising Falcon CANNOT hit Peach for the reasons I already mentioned.

EDIT: Again, Kevin posts basically the same thing I do. I wish people would realize that I know what I'm talking about. Aasem is the ONLY Peach in NC who knows how to play the match up at all.

need i say more?

 

[Dr Peepee]

if they're floating right above sh laser height you can just dd and jump in with a dair. if they're floating at like above yoshis platform height then you can just running fh and be over peach at your apex when she can't fair you while you're rising UNLESS she predicts ur jump and moves forward. if the peach was moving forward originally then u just retreat or some ****, idk thats a different situation entirely.

I mean they should always float above full SHL height so I dunno how you're changing the height. And wtf if Falco has to FH to get over Peach then that's Nair all day(if he falls on you)/baiting DJs with turnips/stage control and ****** stuff. Falco FH'ing over Peach means he know he lost stage control but that doesn't mean Peach lost the advantage at all.

 

[Lightsyde]

if they're floating right above sh laser height you can just dd and jump in with a dair. if they're floating at like above yoshis platform height then you can just running fh and be over peach at your apex when she can't fair you while you're rising UNLESS she predicts ur jump and moves forward. if the peach was moving forward originally then u just retreat or some ****, idk thats a different situation entirely.

That's what we're trying to tell you. You actually can't. If they are floating at that height, the Dair DOES NOT HIT. And what the hell is that second scenario? Peach would never need to float at that height.

 

[stingers]

I mean they should always float above full SHL height so I dunno how you're changing the height. And wtf if Falco has to FH to get over Peach then that's Nair all day(if he falls on you)/baiting DJs with turnips/stage control and ****** stuff. Falco FH'ing over Peach means he know he lost stage control but that doesn't mean Peach lost the advantage at all.

i was just reminded of your situation vs armada when he was floating over the yoshis platform and you just jumped right at him and got faired. it has nothing to do with the lasers. but okay am I not right about the shl height though then?

 

[stingers]

ALSO about shield pressure

http://www.angelfire.com/games5/superdoodleman/Falco_frames_11.6.05.txt

falcos shine has 9 frames of shield stun. you can jc out as soon as it reflects on frame 4, and it hits on frame 5, so you can be jumping as soon as it hits. you're airborne on frame 6, and you can move on frame 7. dair hits on frame 5, so thats frame 12, leaving 3 frames where peach has no shield stun.

http://www.angelfire.com/games5/superdoodleman/Peach_frames_11.6.05.txt

parasol hits frame 6, leaving 3 frames of error for the falco to screw up and still be perfectly safe, and the peach also has to react perfectly assuming the falco does screw up. 3 frames of error for something thats muscle memory is also quite a bit, pros do things like this frame perfect because it's all repetition that they've got down perfectly.

 

[Lightsyde]

i was just reminded of your situation vs armada when he was floating over the yoshis platform and you just jumped right at him and got faired. it has nothing to do with the lasers. but okay am I not right about the shl height though then?

....

Yes, you are, in fact, not right about the SHL height. That is precisely what we've been saying.

EDIT: And while I understand your frame data, my experience runs 100% contrary to what you're saying. I got A LOT of compliments on my shield pressure at Apex and Aasem UpB's out of it reliably if I ever try to pillar on his shield. I'm telling you that it DOES NOT work.

 

[Dr Peepee]

i was just reminded of your situation vs armada when he was floating over the yoshis platform and you just jumped right at him and got faired. it has nothing to do with the lasers. but okay am I not right about the shl height though then?

I don't remember the exact situation, so no comment.

You want to float at such a height where literally NO laser(not DJ FF/SHL any height/etc) can touch you. This is like the max FH float of Peach I think but I'm not totally sure. Either way, it severely limits Falco's options because he cannot control Peach at all then(she's free to move as she pleases because lasers don't get in the way) and she can straight up move horizontally with Falco while being able to change direction/drop quickly with FC aerial'ing. She also has the added bonus of being able to use a projectile(turnip) vs HIM to further facilitate her positional advantage.

That floating thing is seriously ****. It can be beaten if you approach/space like a moron with it, but that's true of most strategies I guess.

 

[stingers]

this height?

how can you NOT jump and dair? i dont get it

 

[AlcyoNite]

omfg super theory bros again

gg u cant beat frame data support =/

 

[Dr Peepee]

ALSO about shield pressure

http://www.angelfire.com/games5/superdoodleman/Falco_frames_11.6.05.txt

falcos shine has 9 frames of shield stun. you can jc out as soon as it reflects on frame 4, and it hits on frame 5, so you can be jumping as soon as it hits. you're airborne on frame 6, and you can move on frame 7. dair hits on frame 5, so thats frame 12, leaving 3 frames where peach has no shield stun.

http://www.angelfire.com/games5/superdoodleman/Peach_frames_11.6.05.txt

parasol hits frame 6, leaving 3 frames of error for the falco to screw up and still be perfectly safe, and the peach also has to react perfectly assuming the falco does screw up. 3 frames of error for something thats muscle memory is also quite a bit, pros do things like this frame perfect because it's all repetition that they've got down perfectly.

Are you gonna make me dig up that frame data I have for Dar/shine shield pressure? I'll tell you right now there are more than 6-8 frames(which is about what Nair OOS is) at some point during Falco shield pressure that gets him *****. It all depends on how delayed the Dair is.