The North Carolina Melee Power Rankings! Updated 8/14/14!

[ph00tbag]

today, i came to a realization

smash is very similar to poker. when there is a determination of skill, how does it differ from luck?

when a hit is achieved, what is the cause, skill or luck? actually, luck is not a factor in smash.

much like poker, smash scenarios present inherent positions of weakness and strength. interpreting the relative positions is a skill within the game. knowing when to attack or retreat is something that comes with experience. but say somehow you're in an edgeguarding position. regardless of how you came to it, you are favored. in this case, your only worry is to take advantage. similarly in poker, if you come across aces, the concern should not lie with whether the aces came from luck or skill (can you make an argument for any case?) but should be to maximize the advantage you possess

smash contains absolutes, this is true. an attack has certain knockback, frames, etc etc.

but can you really account for the variables at hand? much like the physics of pool balls on the felt, simplicity cannot explain the actual progression of such movements. in smash, irregularities such as di (the frame of reaction) and spacing (think about how sensitive spacing is) make for very hard to predict scenarios (and also contributes to the "error")

if i space a move on shield, predicting my distance for spacing should come as a read on his reaction afterwards, how much he shield di's, etc etc that even something like spacing which could be interpreted as linear and one dimensional actually takes on levels of statistics in guessing, reads, and mixups.

as such, we can again arrive at the comparison of poker. when the positions are hidden through the mask of the mind, it comes down not only to a read of prediction but also a statistical analysis of probability. because of this interpretation of what is commonly termed "luck," i figure that luck does not exist in melee in any way shape or form

Welcome to fighting games 101.

 

[SK919]

DJ is just relating the basics of reading people to poker, Luck will always exist in some way but it's very small at-least in this game. That's not the point of the post

 

[Dr Peepee]

People like to say odd shield stabs and getting hit in the very few early invulnerability frames of rolls are lucky. Kinda depends on how far you extend the definition.

 

[lord karn]

I mean, nothing other than turnips and whatnot is really luck. The only argument you can make is that certain things happening are beyond the human scope of attention, and are for all practical purposes luck.

 

[Divinokage]

Even the people here sometimes think my shield stabs are lucky. Doing a bair on a full shield on someone's head and it still goes through, luck or skill? =P

 

[GofG]

well actually turnip pulls aren't luck

the seed used for the RNG for gamecube games is public knowledge

good players will count off the milliseconds since the gamecube was turned on and do the calculations in their head based on the 16-bit seed to know what turnip will be pulled

edit: in all seriousness, there are only a couple things in the grey area between "luck" and "skill". i think the best example is randall.

it's pretty easy to memorize how long randall takes to complete a circuit, and we have a timer at the top of the screen so we don't even have to keep time in our heads. delaying/doing weird **** with your recovery so that you get edgehogged right as (the timer ticks to a number you have memorized or did the math in your head to determine that) randall appears to save you is definitely feasible. luck? idk

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

yo

john is super smart.

i like him

 

[stingers]

jim just said the same thing...it must be true
(john is super smart)

 

[Ocean]

john for melee backroom.

 

[GofG]

stingers

i ****ing miss jim

holy ****ing **** i just had a great idea

get on fbook

 

[Lightsyde]

stingers

i ****ing miss jim

holy ****ing **** i just had a great idea

get on fbook

This is a Wittle situation on the way if I've ever seen one.

And man...I've seen more than one.

 

[stingers]

;]]
oh bby

 

[Dark Hart]

Lucas: I only mention Uthrow Uair because you do it in every situation, no matter, without ever exploring other options. With Fox's grabs, you just do the same bread and butter brain dead stuff in friendlies rather than work on new things.

says you

I just think you're mad

since you hate "simple" ****

I'm constantly exploring options

especially against you

I'm sad you only see the things that piss you off

stingers

i ****ing miss jim

holy ****ing **** i just had a great idea

get on fbook

oooooooooohhhhhhh ****

 

[lord karn]

I've recently been exploring trying to use fox's shine to hit people as they land after you fake out an aerial.

 

[stingers]

so many tactics...not enough strategy

 

[Juno McGrath]

New SWF feature lets you have a melee character and a brawl character in your post bit

<333333

 

[Dr Peepee]

I'm goin in on that.

 

[Lightsyde]

Effing Kevin. :[

 

[Dr Peepee]

I played Brawl Marth before you!!!

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

Double IC, bayyyyybeh

also, as silly as it usually is, i actually enjoy reading lucas/josh's debates sometimes.

 

[0Room]

People like to say odd shield stabs and getting hit in the very few early invulnerability frames of rolls are lucky. Kinda depends on how far you extend the definition.

That's actually not lucky at all. I actually aim for that sometimes xD
Though it's more on the end of the roll hit, and Sheik's a *****

Even the people here sometimes think my shield stabs are lucky. Doing a bair on a full shield on someone's head and it still goes through, luck or skill? =P

Neither, it's your heart of the warrior

 

[0Room]

edit: wrong thread

 

[TheLastCacely]

both of u cant see me in the brawl marth dittos.

 

[*CT*]

Lol now I can be Fox/Fox or Marth/Marth or Fox/Marth or Marth/Fox :O amazing

 

[Ocean]

fox?

 

[0Room]

I dunno if you guys saw this community expansion thread or something in the Melee Forums
[here]

But I thought this was kinda interesting

Locals that draw a reasonable crowd should do pools. Period.

OR locals that draw a really tiny crowd.

we had a biweekly series for a while in oxnard which is pretty far from pretty much everyone, but for the 12-15 people that came out, we ran mini-pools and went into a 4 or 6 man bracket so the people who came out feel like they got their money worth (at least that's the idea)

we also did more best of 5 sets and stuff since time wasn't an issue at all for a small turnout.

Does that sound interesting, or undoable?
I like it because it gives you the chance to play everyone, but for time reasons it's kind of ridiculous, especially once you get into larger tournaments.

 

[Dr Peepee]

If NC played their matches then sure lol that'd be ****.

We need more locals to do stuff like that with though.

 

[Divinokage]

Neither, it's your heart of the warrior

Rofl just like in anime, my punches go through the guard with all my might, good thought. =P

Edit: Round robin tournaments?

 

[0Room]

If NC played their matches then sure lol that'd be ****.

We need more locals to do stuff like that with though.

Definitely. I'd love to host, as I enjoy this community [as little as I show it], I just don't have a place with sufficient space.
Because let's face it guys
There are a lot of you.

Rofl just like in anime, my punches go through the guard with all my might, good thought. =P

Edit: Round robin tournaments?

It's cause you're the best Kage.
And I dunno about RR tournaments, that's like a week waiting to be wasted.

 

[Divinokage]

Oh ya that's true.. I was thinking like the SF community here. They did about 3-4 RR tournaments once every week to determine who really was the best. Like 1st place gets 20 points, 2nd gets 10 points.. etc. I guess these kinds of tournament are much better to see who's a lot more consistent.

 

[Lightsyde]

I played Brawl Marth from the first time I ever turned on the game, which was the night it came out.

You just played again after that time whereas I did not. ;]

 

[0Room]

That would be some cool stuff. Do you play on 360, Kage? And do you play MvC3?
But as far as that goes, there literally are just too many of us to really do a RR tournament.

And I wouldn't necessarily say that there's a big powerstruggle, as far as first place goes.
While NC PRs are fluid and changing, there is also a lot of consistency.

 

[Dr Peepee]

lmao definitely entered tourneys with him

 

[Lightsyde]

Definitely did too!

Once or twice. >___________________>

Very, very quietly.

@Austin Heinz @John Wittle

EDIT:

I'm constantly exploring options

especially against you

I'm sad you only see the things that piss you off

This is completely untrue. I compliment you or mention it every time you do something really good. I give you **** about overusing generic stuff because it forms bad habits (people are super good at DI'ing generic stuff) and I want you to do other stuff and learn and get better. Silly Lucas.

 

[Divinokage]

That would be some cool stuff. Do you play on 360, Kage? And do you play MvC3?
But as far as that goes, there literally are just too many of us to really do a RR tournament.

And I wouldn't necessarily say that there's a big powerstruggle, as far as first place goes.
While NC PRs are fluid and changing, there is also a lot of consistency.

I used to play SSF4 a lot but since i was broke for a while I had to stop. I never touched MvC 3 but I watched a lot of vids, it's pretty entertaining... especially when Spencer does his Bionic arm lol. I don't have a 360 and also I never had melee either. Normally when I play I go to a friends place or a venue. The SF community has a loft with a bunch of 360 where usually 3-4 times a week you can simply go towards the evening and play the top players there. It's pretty sick... and it's also a good idea for us to do something like that too. Find a place to rent and then have a day/week/month/lifetime fee for you to manage. Create rules for the place, etc. Yes?

 

[SK919]

kage did I miss something do you live in NC now? or do you just really like us country folk? I hope it's the former!

 

[0Room]

D: Kage noooooooooo
I wanted to play you in MvC3

And Slasher I think he just likes us
Considering he's still in Montreal

 

[Dark Hart]

Josh, maybe you should just stop giving me **** for doing simple things, I don't give you **** for doing simple things, and don't say you don't do simple things because Falco is a simple ****ing character

also I've been saying we should have pools at everything for the past forever what the hell no one listens to meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

 

[Divinokage]

kage did I miss something do you live in NC now? or do you just really like us country folk? I hope it's the former!

*Like button for NC community*

D: Kage noooooooooo
I wanted to play you in MvC3

And Slasher I think he just likes us
Considering he's still in Montreal

Aww.. not sure if I'm getting a 360 or not. I forget how to play fighting games just for fun... except smash. =P

Josh, maybe you should just stop giving me **** for doing simple things, I don't give you **** for doing simple things, and don't say you don't do simple things because Falco is a simple ****ing character

also I've been saying we should have pools at everything for the past forever what the hell no one listens to meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

How could this happen to me!? I made my mistake...

 

[Dark Hart]

lol Kage wtf