The North Carolina Melee Power Rankings! (Updated 2/11/10!)

[DJRome]

it's close. but based on tourney results, i put ganon ahead. just my thoughts

lol puff sheik is 70-30
peach sheik is 60-40 minimum
both spacies are 55-45 minimum and most sheiks will tell you 60-40

 

[~Twitch~]

they're both pretty gay imo.

 

[Dorsey]

I totally disagree with the sheik v. puff thing, far from 70/30. especially in your comparison to ganon v. puff lol... Ganon doesn't have it 'way better'. *waits for references of the kage mango match*

puff and fox have a small advantage on sheik. Falco has an even smaller one... IC's are close to neutral, but I think IC slighty > sheik. Marth is close to neutral as well...

edit: then look at ganon...

fox, falco, sheik, falcon, puff, all have at least somewhat of an advantage match-up wise.

marth, IC, and peach are close to neutral, but both have have a slight adv. as well.

Doc, samus, etc are barely out classed by ganon

so... sheik>ganon

 

[~Twitch~]

I totally disagree with the sheik v. puff thing, far from 70/30. especially in your comparison to ganon v. puff lol... Ganon doesn't have it 'way better'. *waits for references of the kage mango match*QUOTE]

nuh-uuuh ganon has it better.

 

[DJRome]

how is puff sheik only a small advantage? the ONLY kill move sheik has is grab to uair. but grabbing is nearly impossible, JUST like the peach matchup. except that puff can rest. sheik is ******** slow recovering and can easily be punished. pretty much off the edge = death.

ganon has many kill moves and can bait with his fair+bair and is way heavier. ive asked many puffs including hbox about this and it's easily 70-30. puff crouch kills 70% of sheiks options

im pretty sure fox and falco **** sheik easily well, not **** but clear advantage. IC is an advantage. pretty much the only top 10 chars that sheik has an advantage on is:
marth 5%
falcon 15%
samus 10%
ganon 10%

the rest have clear advantages on sheik

 

[Dorsey]

There is _no_ character who has a clear advantage on sheik, hence why i said she has 'no bad match-ups'..... Give me an example iyo who has more than a 55/45 advantage on sheik excluding your thoughts on puff?

edit: what are you basing your peach/sheik opinion off of? not 60/40....

 

[null55]

lol i love tourneys/the smash community.

what a **** game.

 

[DJRome]

peach. peach covers all options on recovery. you cannot do anything once you are cornered. peach can float over needles on the ground while avoiding air needles. you cannot kill peacj except via grab to uair or random uair. her fair beats all of sheiks moves. you cant cc against her. you can't edgeguard her well, only normally. grabs are impossible to get.

ics are advantage. sheik options to punish are limited. same as falco puff matchup. one mistake for sheik is much worse than 1 mistake for ics. grab=death.

fox camps you. if you rush, he will grab you to death combo
falco lasers you. he can combo you to death
the only reprieve from this is gimps and gimps are not very reliable against high level spacies

 

[null55]

that peach **** you just said is crap though.


maybe against Armada. -_-;;

 

[Dorsey]

If peach is trying to cover all options you will probably be able to hit her with a needle while recovering unless your at a high %, in which every one is gimpable at anyways.

Peach floating over needles doesn't mean anything. If she floats over your needles, then you missed....lol

Her fair does NOT beat all of sheik's moves.... if that's happening to you then you are getting out-spaced.

No ccing v. peach applies to all chars.

Sheik edgeguards every one proficiently.

There is no reasoning for peach being 'impossible to grab' for sheik.

--

I agree, IC's have a very slight advantage. Fox and puff have the biggest advantage on sheik but it's still not that bad. Falco has a little bit less of an advantage... As for his lasers: L2powershield, or just avoid them in general-- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hElmpHbXjAI

 

[DJRome]

well are we talking theoretical mathcups or are we talking more irl matchups? cause good peaches do what i am saying

lol dorsey way to simplify everything. this is a result of numerous discussion throughout the sheik boards. you can think that if you want, but you'll just get ***** once you stop playing ace

 

[Dorsey]

Maybe it's rather simple that sheik isn't as bad as you think? What does your assumption of me getting ***** by people besides Ace have to do with what we're talking about?

U mad bc u wrong?

 

[DJRome]

go lurk the sheik boards dawg. i've been following like 4 threads for over 3 months and most sheiks come to this conclusion. idk what your basis is other than your opinion

 

[Dorsey]

You're assuming that I don't read the sheik boards? I've provided reasoning for everything that i've refuted you on. If you're right, then take a shot at refuting my last points I made instead of cutting me down. L2everything DJ.

 

[DJRome]

If peach is trying to cover all options you will probably be able to hit her with a needle while recovering unless your at a high %, in which every one is gimpable at anyways.

uh no. if you throw a needle, it will not hit peach. in fact peach will likely float around the edge and either grab the edge, go out and bair or land and dsmash. from the ledge you will go above and she will dsmash (in which case you can cc one of the hits but it really won't matter cause of the lag) or float past to fc nair

Peach floating over needles doesn't mean anything. If she floats over your needles, then you missed....lol

. . . right. if she spaces correctly, you needles will be too low. and she will come in and corner you.

Her fair does NOT beat all of sheik's moves.... if that's happening to you then you are getting out-spaced.

her horizontal movement outspaces you. yes, you are getting outspaced and there is nothing you can do about it

No ccing v. peach applies to all chars.

and a large % of sheiks game relies on cc. so yep

Sheik edgeguards every one proficiently.

not peach. she'll just bait ur reaction and airdodge and umbrella ****s

There is no reasoning for peach being 'impossible to grab' for sheik.

. . . fair. nair. nuff said. how often is a peach on the ground anyways?

I agree, IC's have a very slight advantage. Fox and puff have the biggest advantage on sheik but it's still not that bad. Falco has a little bit less of an advantage... As for his lasers: L2powershield, or just avoid them in general-- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hElmpHbXjAI

l2powershield is one of the lamest things ever. no one powershields enough to overcome them and you can't shield in the air. and u get comboed.

 

[theAPExp]

just out of curiosity how does peach's fair beat all of sheiks moves
to my knowledge sheik has better reach with the bair (i think) and a faster fair

 

[DJRome]

1. float back
2. float in with fair.

 

[null55]

1. jump again and then needle
2. trick and punish

 

[DJRome]

lol in which situation? when u get faired, u get forced to the ground and probably a corner, which means death. effing nair is also a 3 frame move with insane range

 

[theAPExp]

1. float back
2. float in with fair.

well that's not really beating an aerial
that's just outspacing somebody

 

[DJRome]

once again, superior horizontal aerial movement=outspacing more often than sheik. that's like saying marth's fsmash doesn't beat most ground moves, only outspaces them. peaches are built for this type of defensive punish

 

[null55]

lol in which situation? when u get faired, u get forced to the ground and probably a corner, which means death. effing nair is also a 3 frame move with insane range

well you were saying she'll float back to avoid ****... pretend you're going to attack as she gets out of your range and then needle...

if she's floating in... stay away. she can't do ****. make her come down the way you want, or bait a dash attack just after she's grounded. Peach is gayly gay.

pretty sure your dash attack is ****ing **** too.

 

[DJRome]

well, if she floats back, she'll likely fair anyways. but once again, she floats at a height where you can't needle. also if you floats in and you go back, you get cornered. and then you're toast for sure. also, she'll fair from float to the ground to reset float and you can't dash attack that. also, she has a better dash attack. also, she can just shield to nair your dash attack. also you can't really force peach to approach at your will. she has more control. there are ways to deal with peach, but that's like saying falcon has ways to deal with sheik

 

[Dr Peepee]

peach. peach covers all options on recovery. you cannot do anything once you are cornered. peach can float over needles on the ground while avoiding air needles. you cannot kill peacj except via grab to uair or random uair. her fair beats all of sheiks moves. you cant cc against her. you can't edgeguard her well, only normally. grabs are impossible to get.

ics are advantage. sheik options to punish are limited. same as falco puff matchup. one mistake for sheik is much worse than 1 mistake for ics. grab=death.

fox camps you. if you rush, he will grab you to death combo
falco lasers you. he can combo you to death
the only reprieve from this is gimps and gimps are not very reliable against high level spacies

Needles vs Peach. Move the f*ck outta the way.

Don't know.

Sheik camps well. LMAO @ Fox death combo. Exaggerate more please.
Falco can combo you to death, but that doesn't mean it happens every time at all.

Must be why M2K gets so many gimps on good players.


Edit: good luck guys. DJ's sheik arguments are getting more powerful(didn't say better).

 

[theAPExp]

well yeah i know peach is a bait and punish character dj
i just define "beating" a move out as priority usually
outrange for a move outranging it, like marth's fsmash vs say a jab
and spacing for when a person creates the space necessary to overcome their move being worse in priority or range.
that may just be me though, but i thought those were widely considered the terms.
i really dunno why i'm saying this though. guess i felt like discussing

 

[null55]

i mean... DJ... some of those are really avoidable situations. plus, Peach can't do **** besides pull turnips out her **** if you just stay away. camp needles to force her to go in the air and then trick the **** out of her like Lady Gaga.

i think it's pretty even since both characters can **** each other. but i don't really think Peach has more control than Sheik.

and i do also disagree with how good Sheik's match-ups are made out to be.


i'm ignorant though, so i try to stay away from these kinds of discussions. roflchomper.

 

[DJRome]

lol, how can u needle someone who floats above your needle height?
and yes gimps can be had. im not saying spacies dominate sheik, just that it's a clear advantage for them.
lol death combos are lurking in the fox corner

what is the difference in how it works if the characters movement augment the hitbox? like falcon's horizontal movement increases the effective hitbox for his nair. idk how sheik could possibly beat the fair flotation

 

[null55]

omg she's not always constantly either floating/dsmashing. and she has to come down eventually.

 

[DJRome]

yep. she comes down. comes down with a fair and then goes up if you're camping. then she'll jump and float towards you again.

also, she's on the ground when she grabs you. and dsmashes you and dash attacks you

 

[theAPExp]

peach's final smash in brawl should've been the melee dsmash
possibly floating about head height and shooting turnips in every direction

edit: you forgot pulling a turnip dj, she rumored to camp sometimes : P

 

[null55]

yep. she comes down. comes down with a fair and then goes up if you're camping. then she'll jump and float towards you again.

also, she's on the ground when she grabs you. and dsmashes you and dash attacks you

and then Pichu just nairs, god what a f@g, ****ing unbeatable.

 

[DJRome]

whatevs, much rather peach than puff

 

[Ledger_Damayn]

His Sheik arguments should be moved up to the actual PR's list.

I'm not an expert my any means on either of those characters, but I really find it terribly terribly unlikely that ANY character in the game can nullify all the options of a character like Sheik. Do Ftilt or Bair beat the range of Peach Fair?

 

[DJRome]

well tilt is just a bad idea. it doesn't lead to anything or kill and if you miss, prepare to get faired. also, the bair beats the fair if the peach stays in place. which she won't. if you whiff that, expect a nair/fair

 

[-ACE-]

Oh my God Rome. Shut the **** up about Sheik sucking because you can't handle matchups (yes I'm assuming this is the case, because I seriously have no idea how any Shiek main could state what you have stated). This is one of the worst series of posts I've ever seen on matchups, lmao. Please, please stop spamming this thread with useless ******** bull**** so other states can laugh at NC. Sheik beats Peach, end of story.

GANON BETTER THAN SHEIK?? LMAO! How the hell are you power ranked? You can't even chaingrab Ganon with Sheik, who is your MAIN. Give me a f*cking break! Just chill the **** out and learn something about this game before you come here preaching horrendously incorrect **** about matchups.

Btw I wouldn't talk **** about Dorsey's sheik until you actually play him. You might get embarrassed.

 

[DJRome]

lol, aight sheik expert. good thing i don't read very well or paraphrase the top sheiks at all. :\ but we can let a mm settle this assume you make it to a tournament some time

 

[-ACE-]

Are you threatening me with a MM? LMAO!

You main Sheik and I'm still not the least bit worried. We'll see what happens.

 

[DJRome]

i prefer to view it as challenge as i have no malice behind it. and idk how you can scoff at my ideas without any factual backing of your own. but then, whatever you don't main sheik

 

[-ACE-]

I'm serious when I say some of your posts contained the worst matchup info I've ever encountered. I'm not going to try to explain algebra to a toddler.

 

[DJRome]

aight, i'll just use your condescension as motivation mkay?