The Nintendo "Off My Chest" thread (BE CIVIL)

[Diddy Kong]

If it helps, Alear is definitely their own character with their own personality.

It seems they're stepping away from Byleth like characters.

Oh wait forgot about that. It does help, indeed!

 

[Quillion]

Again and again I see people’s unpopular opinions that are stuff like “Waluigi is boring, toad is boring, daisy is boring, etc” and it’s so ridiculous to me because the world of Mario is essentially a children’s play set. Sure some games have narratives but your perception of each character in the mainline series is basically going to be driven by your imagination and head canon since their characterizations are so simple. If you don’t like a character that’s perfectly fine, I personally don’t like Toad, and of course it’s fine to prefer certain characters (everyone has their Mario Kart main) but to act like there’s anything objective or logical about preferring any particular character in the Mario brand seems silly to me.

When you put it that way, it does feel like the "children's play set" format of the Mario world plays more to the video game medium's strengths than it does any of these "cinematic games" like God of War or Uncharted or even JRPGs like Xenoblade. I said this on the general video game "unpopular opinions" thread, but it does seem that video games are better off focusing on worldbuilding and characterizing the characters through their actions and abilities rather than telling a story through dialogue and plot interactions.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

When you put it that way, it does feel like the "children's play set" format of the Mario world plays more to the video game medium's strengths than it does any of these "cinematic games" like God of War or Uncharted or even JRPGs like Xenoblade. I said this on the general video game "unpopular opinions" thread, but it does seem that video games are better off focusing on worldbuilding and characterizing the characters through their actions and abilities rather than telling a story through dialogue and plot interactions.

I don't think mediums should be pigeon-holed like this

 

[Quillion]

I don't think mediums should be pigeon-holed like this

They shouldn't be super pigeon-holed to be sure.

But there's a reason movies have to cut down their plots when they adapt a book most of the time. There's a reason why animated adaptations of western comics and manga can't have as much character art detail as their sources. There's a reason why actors on film and actors on stage act in very different ways.

It's good for every medium to be as open as possible, but we can't deny each medium's strengths and limitations.

 

[Perkilator]

I don’t think I can ever get over how much potential Mario Kart Tour wasted in terms of racers, character alts be damned.

 

[Quillion]

I don’t think I can ever get over how much potential Mario Kart Tour wasted in terms of racers, character alts be damned.

TBF, it's just carrying over how mainline Mario Kart already dedicates a significant portion of its roster to generic enemies, pays only lip-service to Donkey Kong, Luigi's Mansion, and Yoshi's Island, and outright ignores Wario and the RPGs.

Like, come on man (@ Nintendo, not you).

 

[[*erdrick.]]

Okay this may be just me but I'm against the idea of Wario and RPG characters in Mario Kart games. Doesn't feel right in all honesty. I would be down for more DK / Mansion / Yoshi's Island tributes though. I guess it's mostly because I see Mario sports games and whatnot more as representing the Mario series' general branding and not its canon as a whole, if that makes sense.

 

[Quillion]

Okay this may be just me but I'm against the idea of Wario and RPG characters in Mario Kart games. Doesn't feel right in all honesty. I would be down for more DK / Mansion / Yoshi's Island tributes though. I guess it's mostly because I see Mario sports games and whatnot more as representing the Mario series' general branding and not its canon as a whole, if that makes sense.

I highly disagree, but I understand too.

Despite Wario technically being a Mario extended universe character, his games past Wario Land 1 feel extremely disconnected from Mario (though even his own games feel disconnected from each other).

And the RPGs have a habit of introducing the coolest stuff in a single game and dropping it after that game.

Still, I don't really care, and I want them to be incorporated into the Mario spin-offs anyway.

 

[Perkilator]

I think I've noticed a bit of a pattern with Fire Emblem throughout the 3DS and Switch eras.

Fire Emblem: Awakening (2012, 3DS)​

Fire Emblem Fates (2015, 3DS)​

Fire Emblem Echoes: Shadows of Valentia (2017, 3DS)​

Popular game released early in a console's lifespan	Divisive game released in the middle of a console's lifespan	Remake of a Japan-only game released near the end of a console's lifespan
Fire Emblem: Three Houses (2019, Switch)	Fire Emblem: Engage (2023, Switch)	Possible FE4 remake?

And yes, I'm fully aware that this isn't a 100% accurate assessment.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

I'm personally all for WarioWare and RPG characters in Mario Kart - DKC is way further away in aesthetic and tone from main Mario than WarioWare or most of the RPGs, so I don't think characters like Ashley would be out of place, if anything it'd be good to have more humans - BUT I think that when people talk about the concept of putting deep cuts in Mario Kart they tend to be a little... indiscriminate. Average Mario Kart players don't really care about personality or source games, just the character design and voice in a vacuum - Koopa Troopa is "the turtle", not "the generic footman of Bowser's army", King Boo is "the big ghost", not "Luigi's arch-nemesis", Rosalina is "space Elsa", not "the tragic mother of the cosmos" - and I think a lot of people imagining Mario Kart rosters don't take this into account and end up creating a lot of Ralph Wolf/Wile E. Coyote situations - Mario die-hards could tell you everything that differentiates Wart and K. Rool, in fact they'd probably find the idea of comparing them in any way ridiculous, but if you only know Mario Kart and the modern 2D platformers, one comes off more as an off-model drawing of the other. There's a few other situations like this I've seen with MK fan rosters - Mona is a weirdly recurring pick, despite being as generic as can be, even though the WarioWare cast is very much defined by non-genericy; Fawful is a character people like for his dialogue, which would not be depicted in MK - but the redundancy problem is the one that bothers me most.

 

[Quillion]

I'm personally all for WarioWare and RPG characters in Mario Kart - DKC is way further away in aesthetic and tone from main Mario than WarioWare or most of the RPGs, so I don't think characters like Ashley would be out of place, if anything it'd be good to have more humans - BUT I think that when people talk about the concept of putting deep cuts in Mario Kart they tend to be a little... indiscriminate. Average Mario Kart players don't really care about personality or source games, just the character design and voice in a vacuum - Koopa Troopa is "the turtle", not "the generic footman of Bowser's army", King Boo is "the big ghost", not "Luigi's arch-nemesis", Rosalina is "space Elsa", not "the tragic mother of the cosmos" - and I think a lot of people imagining Mario Kart rosters don't take this into account and end up creating a lot of Ralph Wolf/Wile E. Coyote situations - Mario die-hards could tell you everything that differentiates Wart and K. Rool, in fact they'd probably find the idea of comparing them in any way ridiculous, but if you only know Mario Kart and the modern 2D platformers, one comes off more as an off-model drawing of the other. There's a few other situations like this I've seen with MK fan rosters - Mona is a weirdly recurring pick, despite being as generic as can be, even though the WarioWare cast is very much defined by non-genericy; Fawful is a character people like for his dialogue, which would not be depicted in MK - but the redundancy problem is the one that bothers me most.

That's an interesting thought. Arguably, MK8 suffers from that itself because it has a bunch of "young Bowsers" in the Koopalings. That's another reason why I'd rather just see the "three Ls" (Lemmy, Larry, and Ludwig) be the reps of the Koopalings in spin-offs.

Personally, I wouldn't put Wart in Mario Kart since he is a one-shot villain (and Birdo has kinda overtaken him as the biggest icon of SMB2 anyway). And I def would rather have Jimmy T., 9-Volt, or either of the Crygors as a tertiary WarioWare character after Wario and Ashley.

Fawful though, I think his giggling will suffice for his voice. Maybe we could also see the Paper Mario partners as costumes for certain characters, like Koops and Kooper for a Koopa or Lakilester for Lakitu. Maybe that'll finally give sufficient reason to have Goombas as actual drivers thanks to Goombella and Goombario.

 

[Diddy Kong]

The Donkey Kong franchise is heavily mismanaged and even if they made two Country games, it doesn't add up to the fact there's now such a huge gap in between releases. Nintendo should've made Retro Studios and Playtonic the main developers of this IP and really stop ****ing around. They're sitting on gold and waste it all by being too careful. The Mario team could've handled a DK project easily for example. Weird how it's never a big priority for them.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

Maybe that'll finally give sufficient reason to have Goombas as actual drivers thanks to Goombella and Goombario.

I wouldn't put Wart in Mario Kart since he is a one-shot villain (and Birdo has kinda overtaken him as the biggest icon of SMB2 anyway)

Did you miss the point of what I was saying in the last post? The typical Mario Kart fan doesn't care about who a character is or what game they're from, just the design, and that's what rosters for Mario sports games should be designed around, not their significance or personality in their debut game.

 

[Quillion]

Did you miss the point of what I was saying in the last post? The typical Mario Kart fan doesn't care about who a character is or what game they're from, just the design, and that's what rosters for Mario sports games should be designed around, not their significance or personality in their debut game.

I'm just saying that Wart shouldn't be in the same roster as KKR because the former is insignificant AND his design is too similar to KKR. Both reasons should keep him out.

I get that paying lip-service to the most prominent and significant characters just leads to stagnation. And I get that fans have a bad problem with myopia on what's prominent or significant (guilty as charged). But that doesn't make those two criteria meaningless in the end; just really hard to gauge objectively.

 

[Opossum]

Did you miss the point of what I was saying in the last post? The typical Mario Kart fan doesn't care about who a character is or what game they're from, just the design, and that's what rosters for Mario sports games should be designed around, not their significance or personality in their debut game.

I mean Funky Kong is probably the epitome of this lol. I had no idea who he was before Mario Kart Wii, and neither did most people who bought the game I'd wager, but he became a beloved fan favorite.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

I mean Funky Kong is probably the epitome of this lol. I had no idea who he was before Mario Kart Wii, and neither did most people who bought the game I'd wager, but he became a beloved fan favorite.

Speaking as a personal anecdote, when I was a kid in the Wii era, everyone my age I talked to loved King Boo and Funky Kong, even though Luigi's Mansion was believed to be a one-and-done and DK was in a weird Schrodinger situation with games nobody was really playing that felt less like extensions of a game series and more like licensed titles based on a non-existant cartoon (and Funky, AFAIK, had never even played any kind of truly major role at that point) - and those are basically just results of them being strong concepts, "ghost king" and "90s surfer monkey" are just really appealing, simple ideas that can be communicated very easily, and in that regard, I think whether a character is obscure or important and how much die-hard Mario fans like them shouldn't be a major consideration if reviving old characters for Mario Kart, since the average MK fan will just say "neat, a new character!" regardless of whether it's Geno or Oogtar, and instead I think what should be looked at most is the character design and how much can be inferred from it without context - if you saw Ashley without context, you can immediately infer from her character design that she's a gothic Wednesday Addams type, even if her being an actual witch may not immediately be obvious, while with Mona she's just... white woman. You'd need to actually watch the cutscenes from WarioWare games to understand why Mona is an endearing character. I'm not saying that Mona is a bad character with this BTW, I am simply saying that she's a character who is carried by her personality and abilities - peppy, outgoing, multitasker, has animal buddies - as opposed to being defined by an aesthetic like Ashley is - gothic, magical, cute, silly hair.

And now you can put that to an extreme: if you never played Smash or a Donkey Kong Country game, would you find King K. Rool, a fat evil reptile among many other fat evil reptiles - without any context of his bumbling ways or silly disguises - to be more of a unique, distinguished character than a Zinger, the more dangerous and edgy of only two insects on this theoretical roster (besides Wiggler) - without context of him being barely anything more than a roadblock?

Keep in mind, I'm not arguing that K. Rool or Mona shouldn't be in or require context to enjoy, moreso that they probably wouldn't resonate with casual Mario Kart fans in the same way as other characters due to being more defined by personalities than a unique character design. (though, funnily enough, both of these characters have really easy workarounds because of thier amounts of careers - put K. Rool in the pirate getup, put Mona in the pizza shop getup, bang, conceptually distinctive characters.)

 

[Perkilator]

I know the 90’s Mario movie and the Nintendo CD-I games can be an embarrassment for anybody, but even with that being said…I wish Nintendo weren’t so over-protective with their franchises that we barely get any other types of media about them.

 

[fogbadge]

I know the 90’s Mario movie and the Nintendo CD-I games can be an embarrassment for anybody, but even with that being said…I wish Nintendo weren’t so over-protective with their franchises that we barely get any other types of media about them.

i assume you mean movies and series

 

[Quillion]

Keep in mind, I'm not arguing that K. Rool or Mona shouldn't be in or require context to enjoy, moreso that they probably wouldn't resonate with casual Mario Kart fans in the same way as other characters due to being more defined by personalities than a unique character design.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're making it sound like appealing to "fans familiar with the franchise's long history" and "casual fans" are mutually exclusive.

At least in my view, it's a binary spectrum rather than a pure binary.

I know the 90’s Mario movie and the Nintendo CD-I games can be an embarrassment for anybody, but even with that being said…I wish Nintendo weren’t so over-protective with their franchises that we barely get any other types of media about them.

Well on one hand, I'd like to see more merch for Zelda beyond screen printed shirts and expensive collector-oriented figures.

But...

• I'm honestly glad that Nintendo rarely toes outside of video games for their big franchises. Let's face it: these franchises are geared towards making unique and memorable gameplay experiences rather than telling stories (not that they shouldn't tell stories mind).
• Given how much media Disney defecates out for stuff like Marvel, Star Wars, and their "classic" animated movies lately, I'd hate to see Nintendo go that far.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're making it sound like appealing to "fans familiar with the franchise's long history" and "casual fans" are mutually exclusive.

I think we might have a difference in vocab here - when I say "casual fans", I am primarily referring to family audiences. Parents and their younger kids basically, maybe the occasional drunk party night or business party. I don't mean casual in the sense it's typically used in gaming circles of "people who don't really dig deep into gameplay" as much as the way it may be used in a TV, comic, or movie circle "people who don't know every little thing or frequent fan communities/wikis". I also do not think these two audiences are mutually exclusive, I'm really suggesting something to the contrary: that you can appeal to die-hards and include deep cuts within a roster without isolating casuals, but there's a bit of a nuance to roster selection where you have to consider the specific context of Mario Kart being 1. a plotless, dialogless game with little opportunity for characters to interact, talk, or use powers; and 2. a game that probably has a significantly higher amount of players who either think Mario is just a platformer and kart racer, or even outright thinks Mario is a 100% vehicle-based franchise, than you could possibly imagine

 

[[*erdrick.]]

I think we might have a difference in vocab here - when I say "casual fans", I am primarily referring to family audiences. Parents and their younger kids basically, maybe the occasional drunk party night or business party. I don't mean casual in the sense it's typically used in gaming circles of "people who don't really dig deep into gameplay" as much as the way it may be used in a TV, comic, or movie circle "people who don't know every little thing or frequent fan communities/wikis". I also do not think these two audiences are mutually exclusive, I'm really suggesting something to the contrary: that you can appeal to die-hards and include deep cuts within a roster without isolating casuals, but there's a bit of a nuance to roster selection where you have to consider the specific context of Mario Kart being 1. a plotless, dialogless game with little opportunity for characters to interact, talk, or use powers; and 2. a game that probably has a significantly higher amount of players who either think Mario is just a platformer and kart racer, or even outright thinks Mario is a 100% vehicle-based franchise, than you could possibly imagine

I'm happy you say that because I feel like a lot of people view Mario through a sort of tunnel vision, rather than acknowledging that Mario quite literally has a giant audience of people who aren't familiar with the games to that extent.

 

[Quillion]

I think we might have a difference in vocab here - when I say "casual fans", I am primarily referring to family audiences. Parents and their younger kids basically, maybe the occasional drunk party night or business party. I don't mean casual in the sense it's typically used in gaming circles of "people who don't really dig deep into gameplay" as much as the way it may be used in a TV, comic, or movie circle "people who don't know every little thing or frequent fan communities/wikis". I also do not think these two audiences are mutually exclusive, I'm really suggesting something to the contrary: that you can appeal to die-hards and include deep cuts within a roster without isolating casuals, but there's a bit of a nuance to roster selection where you have to consider the specific context of Mario Kart being 1. a plotless, dialogless game with little opportunity for characters to interact, talk, or use powers; and 2. a game that probably has a significantly higher amount of players who either think Mario is just a platformer and kart racer, or even outright thinks Mario is a 100% vehicle-based franchise, than you could possibly imagine

Yeah, I meant "casual interest in Mario's characters and history" instead of "casual, party-oriented experience in Mario Kart gameplay".

Actually now that I think about it, I think the binary relationship between casual and hardcore audiences is more like this:

Spoiler: Picture

Primarily aiming for a casual audience while leaving room for deeper skill development and/or story appreciation is a sweet spot.

Primarily aiming for a hardcore audience while leaving room for simple-but-effective strategies and/or more immediately understandable plots is also a sweet spot.

Aiming purely for a casual audience, aiming purely for a hardcore audience, and trying to please both groups equally are all sour spots.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I mean Funky Kong is probably the epitome of this lol. I had no idea who he was before Mario Kart Wii, and neither did most people who bought the game I'd wager, but he became a beloved fan favorite.

This is beyond sad.... Mario Kart Wii is more well known than DKC?

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

This is beyond sad.... Mario Kart Wii is more well known than DKC?

I don't know how this could be surprising at all? Like, yeah, DKC is a very popular game, even today, but Mario Kart is on another level from even the Mario Bros. platformers, let alone the actual spin-offs, and Mario Kart Wii is on another level from that - it was still selling new copies after the Switch and MK8D released!

 

[Opossum]

This is beyond sad.... Mario Kart Wii is more well known than DKC?

Mario Kart Wii sold 4x the amount of copies as DKC1, the best selling DKC game. Funky being in 8 Deluxe, which sold even more, just kind of further solidified it.

 

[[*erdrick.]]

Oh yeah thinking about Mario Kart off-topic but W3's idea for a Wario-counterpart to Bowser was based. Kudos for that idea.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Had Nintendo taken a more thorough interest in Rare's DK concepts post-1999 pre-2008, I think there might have been more generations of people introduced to Funky before MK Wii, but with the weird state of the former franchise in the GC/early Wii eras (and the loads of young people that largely played their first Nintendo consoles in that time) it can be said it served as their first real experience with the character. Even the DKC GBA ports (which were often doing better sales numbers than the original DK releases coming out that that point), could only do so much in keeping the franchise active to younger players.

If anything, I'll say my biggest lament is that Dixie didn't also get into Wii, as she could have perfectly rounded out the cast of Kongs and been a much more high-profile re-introduction of the character than the WII U release of Tropical Freeze.

 

[Quillion]

The Kirby series deserves a lot more criticism for its commitment to being easy. The series legit has an amazing combat system, at least in the games that follow Super Star's system, since it has a lot of cool moves and options you can do. But it's undermined by the vast majority of enemies going down in a single neutral attack, not even a neutral combo.

If Pokémon since Gen 6 and Zelda from WW-SS can rightfully be bashed for squandering legitimately good gameplay ideas on being easy, Kirby rightfully needs to be as well.

And I'd also like to note that I don't mind easiness; I just mind it at the point where there's no reason to engage with the deeper elements of the game.

 

[fogbadge]

The Kirby series deserves a lot more criticism for its commitment to being easy. The series legit has an amazing combat system, at least in the games that follow Super Star's system, since it has a lot of cool moves and options you can do. But it's undermined by the vast majority of enemies going down in a single neutral attack, not even a neutral combo.

If Pokémon since Gen 6 and Zelda from WW-SS can rightfully be bashed for squandering legitimately good gameplay ideas on being easy, Kirby rightfully needs to be as well.

And I'd also like to note that I don't mind easiness; I just mind it at the point where there's no reason to engage with the deeper elements of the game.

in other words these kids games should be criticised for being kids games

 

[Quillion]

in other words these kids games should be criticised for being kids games

A good kids' game is made for the child in all of us, whether they be six or sixty.

A bad kids' game treats the player like a kid.

 

[fogbadge]

A good kids' game is made for the child in all of us, whether they be six or sixty.

A bad kids' game treats the player like a kid.

uh huh, you know there is a difference between films and games? disney was a story teller not a game dev, not to mention he died before gaming became as commercially available as it is. could you not find a more contemporary quote?

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

While it wasn't necessarily intended, I think the big number of both first and third party ports on Switch have turned the console int something that in some ways is making up for the flaws if Nintendo's previous home systems.

N64 and the Gamecube suffered from the lack of third party releases and the last seven years have been filled with many 5th/6th gen releases finally getting put out on Nintendo consoles: Final Fantasy VII through XII, Marvel vs Capcom arcade games, the original Crash Bandicoot Trilogy, Devil May Cry 1-3, Tomb Raider, Knights of the Old Republic Metal Gear Solid 2 & 3, Kingdom Hearts, and so forth. It's all decades after their releases, but it's so many significant franchises getting their proper libraries on Nintendo when even consoles like the Wii and/the Wii U didn't get them.

Speaking of that, the Wii and Wii U ports have also helped give their respective games their proper due. With the former, various titles that felt chained by the often forced motion controls are getting versions that embrace alternatives, whether they be traditional controllers or even touch screen options. Skyward Sword, Mario Galaxy, Fatal Frame, Return to Dreamland, (the upcoming) DKC Returns, all games that now can better appreciated because one's preferred means is available. That's not even getting into third party ones like Monkey Ball, Okami, Force Unleashed, and Epic Mickey which are also allowing for Nintendo ports without the absolute requirement of motion/waggle.

With the Wii U ports, while it's easy to point to the touch screen use no longer being a factor, I think the most notable correction is simply giving great games the audience (and community) they deserved. A release like Tropical Freeze was so good and not only warranted the install base of the Switch but a move away from the toxic context it found its initial reveal in. Same with 3D World which now more properly judged on its own merits rather than critiqued for not being the sandbox game many wanted. Even something like Tokyo Mirage Sessions (while not to my taste and an odd execution of a franchise crossover) at least got a chance in fairer market to sink or swim than the one it found itself in circa 2015.

While the Switch is an incredibly successful console thanks to numerous factors, I genuinely think one of the reasons it has become so beloved is that it's library is compensatory of Nintendo's issues in the 5th through 8th generations.

 

[Quillion]

uh huh, you know there is a difference between films and games? disney was a story teller not a game dev, not to mention he died before gaming became as commercially available as it is. could you not find a more contemporary quote?

Hey, as a good kids' story shouldn't be a sugary random set of situations with no conflict whatsoever, a good kids' game shouldn't be a mindless attack button masher either. Disney's quote on making kids' media that still has appeal to adults still holds.

While it wasn't necessarily intended, I think the big number of both first and third party ports on Switch have turned the console int something that in some ways is making up for the flaws if Nintendo's previous home systems.

N64 and the Gamecube suffered from the lack of third party releases and the last seven years have been filled with many 5th/6th gen releases finally getting put out on Nintendo consoles: Final Fantasy VII through XII, Marvel vs Capcom arcade games, the original Crash Bandicoot Trilogy, Devil May Cry 1-3, Tomb Raider, Knights of the Old Republic Metal Gear Solid 2 & 3, Kingdom Hearts, and so forth. It's all decades after their releases, but it's so many significant franchises getting their proper libraries on Nintendo when even consoles like the Wii and/the Wii U didn't get them.

Speaking of that, the Wii and Wii U ports have also helped give their respective games their proper due. With the former, various titles that felt chained by the often forced motion controls are getting versions that embrace alternatives, whether they be traditional controllers or even touch screen options. Skyward Sword, Mario Galaxy, Fatal Frame, Return to Dreamland, (the upcoming) DKC Returns, all games that now can better appreciated because one's preferred means is available. That's not even getting into third party ones like Monkey Ball, Okami, Force Unleashed, and Epic Mickey which are also allowing for Nintendo ports without the absolute requirement of motion/waggle.

With the Wii U ports, while it's easy to point to the touch screen use no longer being a factor, I think the most notable correction is simply giving great games the audience (and community) they deserved. A release like Tropical Freeze was so good and not only warranted the install base of the Switch but a move away from the toxic context it found its initial reveal in. Same with 3D World which now more properly judged on its own merits rather than critiqued for not being the sandbox game many wanted. Even something like Tokyo Mirage Sessions (while not to my taste and an odd execution of a franchise crossover) at least got a chance in fairer market to sink or swim than the one it found itself in circa 2015.

While the Switch is an incredibly successful console thanks to numerous factors, I genuinely think one of the reasons it has become so beloved is that it's library is compensatory of Nintendo's issues in the 5th through 8th generations.

No arguments there. Though it's also lucky that the rest of the industry moved towards more standardized CPUs so that games are easily portable (or at least can be made so) from one platform to the next.

Honestly, if it weren't for that, the Switch would still be ignored by third-party devs.

 

[fogbadge]

Hey, as a good kids' story shouldn't be a sugary random set of situations with no conflict whatsoever, a good kids' game shouldn't be a mindless attack button masher either. Disney's quote on making kids' media that still has appeal to adults still holds.

that's not what you were asking for though. you were wanting things to be harder, not to have more complex gameplay

 

[Perkilator]

One of these days I'd like to write and do the drums for a Super Mario 3D World-themed parody of "Jessie's Girl" called "Plessie Falls.'

 

[Quillion]

that's not what you were asking for though. you were wanting things to be harder, not to have more complex gameplay

I really don't give a darn if a game is easy or hard anymore. It's HOW a game is easy or hard that matters to me. There's a reason why I said:

And I'd also like to note that I don't mind easiness; I just mind it at the point where there's no reason to engage with the deeper elements of the game.

It's definitely hard to put into words, but I just want Kirby's brand of easiness to encourage us to use all the moves we have in an ability moveset.

 

[fogbadge]

I really don't give a darn if a game is easy or hard anymore. It's HOW a game is easy or hard that matters to me. There's a reason why I said:



It's definitely hard to put into words, but I just want Kirby's brand of easiness to encourage us to use all the moves we have in an ability moveset.

Have you considered the Kirby games just aren’t for you?

 

[RouffWestie]

Have you considered the Kirby games just aren’t for you?

Them shouldn't all games be immune to criticism, because in that case, any aspect of a game.the player has any negative response can just be explained away as the game not being for them?

 

[fogbadge]

Them shouldn't all games be immune to criticism, because in that case, any aspect of a game.the player has any negative response can just be explained away as the game not being for them?

no because there’s a distinct difference between a game you can’t get into because you’re not engaging with it and a game you can’t get into because of flaws in it’s design.

 

[MBRedboy31]

It's definitely hard to put into words, but I just want Kirby's brand of easiness to encourage us to use all the moves we have in an ability moveset.

I think Kirby games are designed so that experienced players can be motivated to use all of Kirby‘s moves for the purpose of being able to style on the enemies. Like, there’s a whole system in place where enemies can’t disappear until they are out of hitstun, so you’re invited to try to stylishly combo them. Or, you could try using less obviously useful moves to change your experience.

Since this is intrinsic motivation instead of extrinsic, it won’t work for everyone.