The NEW Yoshi Matchup Thread V2|Week 10 - Zelda

[Ryusuta]

Getting a little on-edge about misspellings, are you?

It was a typo, but not of your name.

Post

 

[Chaco]

Getting a little on-edge about misspellings, are you?

It was a typo, but not of your name.

LMFAO Nice O.

 

[Poltergust]

Sorry, it's just that people ALWAYS misspell my name. Which is weird since "Poltergust" or "Polt" is so simple...

That, and the fact that I'm a grammar Nazi.

 

[Ryusuta]

Believe me, I can relate to people misspelling your username. Even when people spell my name RIGHT they usually spell it wrong.

 

[Poltergust]

Hey, I haven't misspelled your username, Sir 0rion.

*ahem*

Let's get back to the match-up discussion, shall we?

 

[cutter]

Am I the only G&W who rarely uses bair?

No you're not.

@ Mmac: Yeah, I know Yoshi's Usmash has invinc frames so I was making sure on Fsmash. You guys should get frame data on this kind of stuff.

 

[Ryusuta]

Tell me about it...

 

[Neb]

Yoshi vs G&W - 1:9?

Just kidding.
Talk about the match-up, you pusillanimous waste of space!

 

[Chaco]

Yoshi vs G&W - 1:9?

Just kidding.
Talk about the match-up, you pusillanimous waste of space!

In all honesty I think it's like 3.5:6.5 GnW.

 

[Deleted member]

In all honesty, i think its 4-6 G&W...

See, i can do it too =)
I wish people would refute my points, else its gonna be like, mmacs gonna put 3.5-6.5 since most people said that, even though my points have not really been refuted at all.

Which happens btw. See falcon =(

 

[Neb]

Could you repost them?

 

[Deleted member]

"I say its 40-60 G&Ws favor from a bit of recent tournament G-dubs practice. Yoshis uair beats his dair after the first few frames if we space it right, run away from bairs most of the time and ETS, this will not only put pressure, but he will more than likely DI towards u most of the time to try and stop u from your ETS, which is what you want, because yoshi can SHIELD GRAB bair if he is DIing in. Isnt life sweet =) Be aggressive when he is not, make him second guess his game with eggs, dont be an idiot and get hit by his smashes(at least get killed with his predictable fair rather than smashes), you can dtilt but only if you dont suspect a dtilt of his own, if he does that just ETS. G&W can juggle u with nairs and uairs(god i hate that move), dont down b please, just do your best to combine egg momentum shifts and be tricky and get down while taking minimum damage. He cant dsmash from down throw but he can do numerous things depending on your reaction, so if hes smart, you will likely get hit with a follow up or regrabbed a few times a match. Mix up ur techs.

The thing about G&W is he has really lackluster options when you are near him, compared to yoshi who has a magnificent jab and ftilt. Make him play your game, take as little damage as you can from his bairs and try to punish if possible, ALWAYS GO FOR THE UAIR! This is really what i would suggest, he cant dair to safety, so he has to just fall, and at that point, its fine cuz hes falling and you can do whatever you do to any other character(people do different things). Dash attack is a no no here(not like i use it anyways), and G&W still wins because of his survivability(bucket cancel can pretty much make him last long than snake on FD against horizontal kills), and because hes a really good character with amazing hitboxes. Thats it."

Wumbo

 

[Chaco]

In all honesty, i think its 4-6 G&W...

See, i can do it too =)
I wish people would refute my points, else its gonna be like, mmacs gonna put 3.5-6.5 since most people said that, even though my points have not really been refuted at all.

Which happens btw. See falcon =(

I don't remember your points, or else I'd refute them.

EDIT: Lol I need to start looking at the next page.

 

[Snowstalker]

I think it should remain 30:70, or possibly change to 35:65.

10:90 is reserved for Fox vs. Pikachu, Dedede vs. Bowser, and Dedede vs. DK.

 

[Chaco]

"I say its 40-60 G&Ws favor from a bit of recent tournament G-dubs practice. Yoshis uair beats his dair after the first few frames if we space it right, run away from bairs most of the time and ETS, this will not only put pressure, but he will more than likely DI towards u most of the time to try and stop u from your ETS, which is what you want, because yoshi can SHIELD GRAB bair if he is DIing in. Isnt life sweet =) Be aggressive when he is not, make him second guess his game with eggs, dont be an idiot and get hit by his smashes(at least get killed with his predictable fair rather than smashes), you can dtilt but only if you dont suspect a dtilt of his own, if he does that just ETS. G&W can juggle u with nairs and uairs(god i hate that move), dont down b please, just do your best to combine egg momentum shifts and be tricky and get down while taking minimum damage. He cant dsmash from down throw but he can do numerous things depending on your reaction, so if hes smart, you will likely get hit with a follow up or regrabbed a few times a match. Mix up ur techs.

The thing about G&W is he has really lackluster options when you are near him, compared to yoshi who has a magnificent jab and ftilt. Make him play your game, take as little damage as you can from his bairs and try to punish if possible, ALWAYS GO FOR THE UAIR! This is really what i would suggest, he cant dair to safety, so he has to just fall, and at that point, its fine cuz hes falling and you can do whatever you do to any other character(people do different things). Dash attack is a no no here(not like i use it anyways), and G&W still wins because of his survivability(bucket cancel can pretty much make him last long than snake on FD against horizontal kills), and because hes a really good character with amazing hitboxes. Thats it."

Wumbo

Okay, I agree with all of this. But the fact still stands is the survivability. He can survive to insane percentages. I don't even think half of the Yoshi mains know how to DI properly. So we don't survive. (Not saying that the majority of us don't know how to. I know you Proshis do. ^___^) So that is what gives them the major upper hand. And well, nice points Stocky. I give you kudos. Mmac, 4:6. GGs.

EDIT: And for those of you who need this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hQIy7P7RWo

 

[Gindler]

@Gindler: That's... amazing! If we can somehow reliably come up with a way to grab him out of his up-B before he sweet-spots the ledge then this match-up could possibly flip entirely. o_O

@Chaco: We know that Mr. Game & Watch owns us. But we need to determine by how much. 40:60? 35:65? 30:70?

He mighta just barely missed it though and i grabbed him on the way up though. I'm not "exactly" sure just thought I'd mention it and maybe someone better could test or something *shrugs*


I'd say that it's a 30:70 matchup for characters. I've gotten to the point where I can reliably beat the key with my Dair, just need something to beat the turtle and fishbowl and I'd be set (i can DI out of them fine they just mess up my flow is all). I HATE that Dsmash of his too (WAY worse than MKs), that gives him at least 5 more advantage points just for that in my eyes.

 

[Chaco]

He mighta just barely missed it though and i grabbed him on the way up though. I'm not "exactly" sure just thought I'd mention it and maybe someone better could test or something *shrugs*


I'd say that it's a 30:70 matchup for characters. I've gotten to the point where I can reliably beat the key with my Dair, just need something to beat the turtle and fishbowl and I'd be set (i can DI out of them fine they just mess up my flow is all). I HATE that Dsmash of his too (WAY worse than MKs), that gives him at least 5 more advantage points just for that in my eyes.

Pivot Grab.

Glerr

 

[Gindler]

Pivot Grab.

Glerr

Ha, i do that. Guess I shoulda said while in the air, being an aerial fighter and getting shredded in the air is a major disappointment.

 

[Snowstalker]

It shouldn't be 4:6 unless there's a move that counters turtle and fishbowl while you're in the air.

 

[Deleted member]

First off, 4:6 is usually considered a counter. Just so you guys know.
Thanks Chaco =)

Dsmash: Its a really annoying move, but you REALLY have to play safe. If hes dsmashing, dont be an idiot and attack. Shield. I mostly get killed by fox trot away to fsmash when im returning to the stage.

Bair: Why would you be meeting bair head on. Be on the ground camping unless he wont have time to SH, or hes above you. Thats it. I already explained how to deal with it when you're on the ground.

Nair: So what, its an amazing move, get over it. Your gonna take a lot of damage from it, try not to get in positions where you are gonna be vulnerable. Dont be above him, not good. Without this it'd be a closer matchup.

Most characters cant counter fishbowl and bair when you are in the air. That's why staying on the ground is the best option, just be smart and think, if i cant beat it in the air, dont be in the air. How to get good at smash: Be smart. I can see why G&Ws say that uthrow is good, its cuz it puts you in the air.

Its still G&Ws advantage, im not sayin its a close matchup or anything.

4:6 GG

 

[Ryusuta]

10:90 is reserved for Fox vs. Pikachu

I've actually heard this before, but neither of them are huge tourney characters around here. I know this is a silly question, but what makes this match so broken?

 

[Deleted member]

its not that bad, pika has a 0-80 cg, but pika has worst grab range in game and fox can camp.

 

[Snowstalker]

Pikachu has a 0-80 chaingrab that he can follow up with a dsmash, putting fox at a high % right off the bat.

 

[Poltergust]

Pikachu's d-smash sucks because it is so easily DI-able, though.

 

[Ryusuta]

Yeah, that's the main thing, in my opinion. Pikachu doesn't have that many great KO options. Like Poltergust said, his down smash is pretty bad, and his down B and forward smashes are slow as molasses. I'd give him the advantage for sure, but 90:10 is a gigantic stretch. Falcon can basically 0-death Ganondorf and doesn't even have that big of an advantage.

 

[Mmac]

Sigh, I leave for 3 days and everyone thinks I am going to ignore the entire discussion and now we are discussion Fox vs Pikachu for some reason.

I got a question though, who is our hardest matchup? If we put Game & Watch at 4, then Marth is going to be considered our hardest matchup, which I can't change until Steel2nd and EmblemLord are convinced that Yoshi does more decent against him...

 

[Deleted member]

If you bring them here ill be sure to own them as well. "Hardest" is personal, for bwett its marth, for me its Falco, for Pride its sonic(lol). I think our worst matchup is falco, then wolf.

 

[Poltergust]

In my opinion, Yoshi's worst match-up is either DK or Mr. Game & Watch.

 

[Tidycats29]

IMO yoshi's hardest match up is G&W then lucario

i dont even think marth has that much advantage on Dino

 

[Shiri]

Ready? My list is different, too.

Mario
Link
King Dedede
Peach

In that order. I haven't played any Falcos, but I'm pretty sure Falco would go up there somewhere.

Where did Marth being hard come in? It might not be in our favor statistically, but "hard" is a little out there.

 

[Cliche-Guevara]

Marth Fair spam owns me hard, I would say wolf using the invincable frames on his shine is next lol.

 

[Ryusuta]

I agree (hi, Steve). I don't see how Marth ISN'T a hard match-up for Yoshi, to be honest. It's not like we can camp him, and he beats us pretty convincingly on the inside.

 

[Snowstalker]

Mr. Game & Watch should be moved to 35 or stay at 30. I still want to know how to avoid turtle and fishbowl in the air.

 

[Ryusuta]

Air-to-air, I'm not exactly sure there IS a way to be honest. I usually just dodge down. But then again, Yoshi shouldn't take to the air against Game & Watch anyway.

Perhaps Egg Lay could trump his neutral air, but I'm not certain, since most Game & Watches I play tend to use the move defensively and/or in juggles, so the opportunity rarely comes up.

 

[SOVAman]

Is there anyway you can organize this from best to worst match-up or the other way around it would make it a lot more organized

 

[Chaco]

Ready? My list is different, too.

Mario
Link
King Dedede
Peach

In that order. I haven't played any Falcos, but I'm pretty sure Falco would go up there somewhere.

Where did Marth being hard come in? It might not be in our favor statistically, but "hard" is a little out there.

Yeah, it's definitely that everyone has their hardest. I don't have a problem with any of those. My problems lie with. (Well cept DDD)

Lucario
Kirby
DDD

 

[Ryusuta]

Yeah, I've noticed SOooo much with Yoshi specifically that everyone plays so differently from everyone else, that everyone has a hard time coming to a consensus on Yoshi's match-ups. It's an odd phenomenon, really.

 

[Deleted member]

Mr. Game & Watch should be moved to 35 or stay at 30. I still want to know how to avoid turtle and fishbowl in the air.

Lol, stubborn i see. YOU CANT BEAT THEM IN THE AIR, SO DONT GET IN THE AIR!

Marth is easy, fair spam is garbage, the only reason he beats us is side b and his down tilt, we can camp a little, combo a little, and set up for edgeguards, or at least capitalziing on his recovery. I go even with top marths usually, im experienced in the matchup i guess.
D3 is easy for me now, just camp. Kirby is hard for me, lucario is so-so, toon link is hard if they play campy, falco is mean =(


Does everyone agree on 4:6, or at least accept that most of my stuff is correct?

 

[Neb]

Its not 6:4, I say 65:35, or 70:30.

 

[Deleted member]

"I say its 40-60 G&Ws favor from a bit of recent tournament G-dubs practice. Yoshis uair beats his dair after the first few frames if we space it right, run away from bairs most of the time and ETS, this will not only put pressure, but he will more than likely DI towards u most of the time to try and stop u from your ETS, which is what you want, because yoshi can SHIELD GRAB bair if he is DIing in. Isnt life sweet =) Be aggressive when he is not, make him second guess his game with eggs, dont be an idiot and get hit by his smashes(at least get killed with his predictable fair rather than smashes), you can dtilt but only if you dont suspect a dtilt of his own, if he does that just ETS. G&W can juggle u with nairs and uairs(god i hate that move), dont down b please, just do your best to combine egg momentum shifts and be tricky and get down while taking minimum damage. He cant dsmash from down throw but he can do numerous things depending on your reaction, so if hes smart, you will likely get hit with a follow up or regrabbed a few times a match. Mix up ur techs.

The thing about G&W is he has really lackluster options when you are near him, compared to yoshi who has a magnificent jab and ftilt. Make him play your game, take as little damage as you can from his bairs and try to punish if possible, ALWAYS GO FOR THE UAIR! This is really what i would suggest, he cant dair to safety, so he has to just fall, and at that point, its fine cuz hes falling and you can do whatever you do to any other character(people do different things). Dash attack is a no no here(not like i use it anyways), and G&W still wins because of his survivability(bucket cancel can pretty much make him last long than snake on FD against horizontal kills), and because hes a really good character with amazing hitboxes. Thats it."

Wumbo

Bring it son =)