The New Super Awesome Oregon Home Thread!!! :D

[Infinitora]

Speaking of which, surprised to see you back into the game again

I'd like to start playing more again but, like you, busy with work. We need to go to changs again and load up the pancakes in the ziplock bags, good times.

I went there once with my then girlfriend, we lined a backpack with a plastic sack and loaded it. It was absolutely amazing. Not sure how we got away with that.

 

[The Jizzard]

so i would play again today if anyone is up for it. can host all day or drive anywhere at around 6 tonight

 

[debaser]

I might be up for it lol. I'll keep you posted.

 

[Surreal]

Both of you come here for smash.

 

[The Jizzard]

will have the car in like 10-15 min so i can leave then

edit: leaving now

 

[debaser]

prob not coming over.

 

[Peach Masta]

what a flakey ****

 

[Ratking1234]

You guys still playing?

text me if someone is still playing 971-235-7824. I gotta work in the morning but would be down to come for a bit.

 

[Ratking1234]

Speaking of which, surprised to see you back into the game again

I'd like to start playing more again but, like you, busy with work. We need to go to changs again and load up the pancakes in the ziplock bags, good times.

It's hard being an "adult" or whatever now. ****ing dumb.

 

[Surreal]

It's already over sorry. =[

 

[keeper]

Me and my rhythm box.

 

[debaser]

what a flakey ****

true oregon smasher

 

[Izayah]

So to avoid being a dumb *** about the Melee rules like last time, I would appreciate if you guys could give me a complete rule list that even includes stage list. That way, when people ask me about the stage list I don't just send them to Keeper who is in a tournament match.

 

[t!MmY]

Here are the current rules for Melee:

4 stocks
No Items
Fox Only
Final Destination

 

[indigestible_wad]

Is anybody in portland willing to hold onto my tvs or me on friday night before LOST? I'm going south on friday and I'll either be coming back up friday night and don't want to go all the way north back home, or I'll be coming back friday morning and I'll be able to pick them up on the way to the tourney. We could make a smashfest of it or something.

 

[Surreal]

I couldn't make a smashfest out of it, but I could probably hold them depending on how much space they'd take up.

 

[keeper]

So to avoid being a dumb *** about the Melee rules like last time, I would appreciate if you guys could give me a complete rule list that even includes stage list. That way, when people ask me about the stage list I don't just send them to Keeper who is in a tournament match.

4 Stocks
8 Minutes (East Coast does 7 minutes for some reason. We can experiment with this if anyone would like.)
Friendly Fire On
Items Set to None and all are turned off
Wobbling is either banned or limited to 200% depending on the TO (I think it should be banned because infinites are dumb lol)
All other infinites are limited to 200% (Ex: Fox shining on the temporary wall on PS)
Excessive intentional stalling that makes the game unplayable leads to disqualification

1v1
Neutrals:
•Battlefield
•Final Destination
•Fountain of Dreams
•Yoshi's Story
•Dreamland 64

Counterpicks:
•Kongo Jungle 64
•Pokémon Stadium
Note: Any stage can be counterpicked as long as the player being counterpicked against agrees to it

2v2
Neutrals:
•Battlefield
•Final Destination
•Yoshi's Story
•Dreamland 64
•Pokémon Stadium

Counterpick:
•Kongo Jungle 64

The first stage is selected by stage strike where the higher port (P1>P2>P3>P4) strikes one followed by the lower striking two and then the first strikes the final stage. This lets you just hit "Start" right as the stage menu comes up instead of having to select the stage with the cursor.

 

[FoosJr]

anyone going to best bout smashfest tomorrow?

 

[t!MmY]

@keeper
I had a dream that you won a bunch of money at LOST and I asked you to fan it out in front of you and then I took a picture of it with my 3DS.
XD

A few notes about the rules posted:

Timer
Old Oregon rules used 7mins. When did it change to 8mins?

Infinites
These should not be limited or banned, doing so is not only scrubby but difficult to enforce. (see "Stalling" however)

Stalling
If stalling becomes a problem (and I doubt it will), the Ref can make a call to break off the stalling (usually with a warning, or a penalty if previously warned). The only thing the Ref should really call out for stalling that I can think of in Melee would be Peach Wall-Bombing, Freeze-Glitch, and maybe Wobbling for unnecessary lengths of time.

Stage List
Yoshi's Story has been called counterpick material for years. Fountain of Dreams lags in Doubles. Because of this, they should be moved to a Counterpick List allowing each player to strike one stage and get on with the game.

You can then list FoD normally with a note "Fountain of Dreams is banned in Doubles due to lag" without having to come up with a secondary list for Doubles.

The rules would then look like this:

-------------------------------------------

Melee Tournament Rules
- Quick Rules Reference -
-------------------------------------------
​

Game Settings
Default settings and default gameplay with the following changes:

4-Stock (with 8-min timer)
Item Switch: NONE
Team Attack: ON
Pause: OFF
​

Game-Play Rules
1) Player Priority is determined.
2) Controller Ports are selected.
3) Characters are chosen.
4) Starting Stage is determined.
5) Game commences.

Stage List
•Battlefield
•Final Destination
•Dreamland 64

Counterpick Stage List
•Fountain of Dreams*
•Kongo Jungle 64
•Pokémon Stadium
•Yoshi's Story

*Fountain of Dreams is unavailable in Doubles due to lag

 

[t!MmY]

----------------------------------------------------
Melee Tournament Rules

- Complete Rules Listing -
​

----------------------------------------------------

I. Game Settings
All settings kept at default with the following changes:

4 Stocks
8 Minutes
Friendly Fire On
Items: None (and all turned off)
Pause: Off
​

II. Order of Play
1) 'Player Priority' is determined with a coin flip.
2) One controller slot is chosen for each Player.
3) One character is selected for each Player.
4) Teams agree to a stage for the 1st round, otherwise it is determined through the 'Stage Strike Method'.
5) Play begins; proceed until the game has finished with the winning Team displayed on the results screen.
6) The Team that lost the previous game chooses the stage to be played next.
7) The Team that won the previous game chooses a character for each Player.
8) The Team that lost the previous game chooses a character for each Player.
9) Play proceeds as in Step 5; the Set is complete when the required number of games has been finished.

Repeat Steps 6 to 10 for each additional Round, if any.

III. Clarifications

Player Priority
In all instances, if one Team must be chosen before another, it is the one with "Player Priority". This means that the Team with "Player Priority" will be able to select controller slots first*, select color choice first, and select the first Stage Strike first.
* In Doubles, controller slots are chosen in "1-2-1" fashion with "1" representing the Team with "Player Priority" selecting the first slot, "2" representing the opposing Team selecting the next two slots, and the final "1" going to the last player.

----------------------
Double Blind Rules
The Team with "Player Priority" records character selection in secret (such as written on paper or told to Referee). The other Team performs character selection as normal, and then the recorded character selection of the other Team is revealed.

----------------------
Stage Striking Rules
Each Team selects a Stage to "strike" from the Stage List, starting with the team with "Player Priority". The last Stage remaining that did not receive a "strike" is the stage that will be played for the first Round.

----------------------
Character-Select Clarifications
- All characters are available.
- Zelda/Sheik are considered the same character selection choice (turning into Sheik is done as the game begins or in-game, not during character select).

----------------------
Tournament Format
Bracket: Double Elimination
Games: Best of 3
Upper\Lower Finals & Grand Finals: Best of 5

----------------------

Stage List
•Battlefield
•Final Destination
•Dreamland 64

Counterpick Stage List
•Fountain of Dreams*
•Kongo Jungle 64
•Pokémon Stadium
•Yoshi's Story
​

*Fountain of Dreams is unavailable in Doubles due to lag

.Additional Rules

Dave's Modified Stupid Rule
A stage may not be selected for a Counterpick if the Team selecting it has already won on that stage in this Set.

Gentleman's Stage Select
Any stage may be used as a Counterpick if both Teams agree to it.

Tie-Breaker Modifier: %-based
If the timer runs out and stocks are tied, the Team with the lowest combined damage-% is declared the winner (before Sudden Death).

Tie Breaker Modifier: One-Stock Rematch
Sudden Death results are not used for tie-breaking. Instead, set the Stocks to 1 and replay the same stage with the same characters. The winner of this One-stock
rematch is the winner of this game.

 

[t!MmY]

I took keeper's rules and added in all the ones I found on the Genesis 2 page to make sure I had a comprehensive listing.

Let me know if I missed anything.

 

[AlienAllen]

I'm willing to try this out, but I like having Yoshi's and FoD as neutrals.

 

[debaser]

I like it. Simple and elegant and the stages are as fair as possible.

 

[The Jizzard]

So I want to come to the smashfest but I have some family stuff I have to go to. When did the last one end? And is there a fee?

 

[FoosJr]

5 bucks last one ended sometime after midnight

 

[indigestible_wad]

Ratking showed up after eleven last week.

 

[The Jizzard]

Gonna try and make it wont be there till about 930-10.

 

[keeper]

@keeper
I had a dream that you won a bunch of money at LOST and I asked you to fan it out in front of you and then I took a picture of it with my 3DS.
XD

What.

A few notes about the rules posted:

Timer
Old Oregon rules used 7mins. When did it change to 8mins?

It's been 8 minutes for awhile, I don't know when the shift happened. I'm perfectly fine if enough people want it to be 7 minutes for it to be 7 minutes.

Infinites
These should not be limited or banned, doing so is not only scrubby but difficult to enforce. (see "Stalling" however)

Infinites are stupid, I don't know how you can argue this. Seeing someone win while using one makes me mad and seems rather unfair to the player that doesn't have the ability (as a player or character) to also infinite.

Stalling
If stalling becomes a problem (and I doubt it will), the Ref can make a call to break off the stalling (usually with a warning, or a penalty if previously warned). The only thing the Ref should really call out for stalling that I can think of in Melee would be Peach Wall-Bombing, Freeze-Glitch, and maybe Wobbling for unnecessary lengths of time.

That's the idea. It's basically "don't pick Puff and rising pound after getting one kill."

Stage List
Yoshi's Story has been called counterpick material for years. Fountain of Dreams lags in Doubles. Because of this, they should be moved to a Counterpick List allowing each player to strike one stage and get on with the game.

You can then list FoD normally with a note "Fountain of Dreams is banned in Doubles due to lag" without having to come up with a secondary list for Doubles.

Pokémon Stadium, due to transformations, has far more factors that make it much more worthy of being counterpick material. I don't see the problem with Yoshi's story other than the Shy Guy's gimping Ness or interfering with projectiles. I would argue that FD and Dreamland 64 have far bigger factors just by how the stages are that favor characters much more than FoD's 'active' platforms do.

The rules would then look like this:

-------------------------------------------

Melee Tournament Rules
- Quick Rules Reference -
-------------------------------------------
​

Game Settings
Default settings and default gameplay with the following changes:

3-Stock (with 10-min timer)
Item Switch: NONE
Team Attack: ON
Pause: OFF
​

Game-Play Rules
1) Player Priority is determined.
2) Controller Ports are selected.
3) Characters are chosen.
4) Starting Stage is determined.
5) Game commences.

Why did you put 3 stocks?

Stage List
•Battlefield
•Final Destination
•Dreamland 64

Counterpick Stage List
•Fountain of Dreams*
•Kongo Jungle 64
•Pokémon Stadium
•Yoshi's Story

*Fountain of Dreams is unavailable in Doubles due to lag

Call me bias, but I I actually hate Final Destination and Dreamland 64 entirely. Having the other two (FoD and YS) on stage strike allows the player to strike them if they don't want to play them. With your list, I can say that you'll be seeing Battlefield the majority of the time.

----------------------------------------------------
Melee Tournament Rules

- Complete Rules Listing -
​

----------------------------------------------------

I. Game Settings
All settings kept at default with the following changes:

4 Stocks
8 Minutes
Friendly Fire On
Items: None (and all turned off)
Pause: Off
​

II. Order of Play
1) 'Player Priority' is determined with a coin flip.
2) One controller slot is chosen for each Player.
3) One character is selected for each Player.
4) Teams agree to a stage for the 1st round, otherwise it is determined through the 'Stage Strike Method'.
5) Play begins; proceed until the game has finished with the winning Team displayed on the results screen.
6) The Team that lost the previous game chooses the stage to be played next.
7) The Team that won the previous game chooses a character for each Player.
8) The Team that lost the previous game chooses a character for each Player.
9) Play proceeds as in Step 5; the Set is complete when the required number of games has been finished.

Repeat Steps 6 to 10 for each additional Round, if any.

Port priority (in singles) need only be determined if either player truly cares. In which case it should be done using G&W judgment battles since that's infinitely more fun than a coin flip.

III. Clarifications

Player Priority
In all instances, if one Team must be chosen before another, it is the one with "Player Priority". This means that the Team with "Player Priority" will be able to select controller slots first*, select color choice first, and select the first Stage Strike first.
* In Doubles, controller slots are chosen in "1-2-1" fashion with "1" representing the Team with "Player Priority" selecting the first slot, "2" representing the opposing Team selecting the next two slots, and the final "1" going to the last player.

----------------------
Double Blind Rules
The Team with "Player Priority" records character selection in secret (such as written on paper or told to Referee). The other Team performs character selection as normal, and then the recorded character selection of the other Team is revealed.

----------------------
Stage Striking Rules
Each Team selects a Stage to "strike" from the Stage List, starting with the team with "Player Priority". The last Stage remaining that did not receive a "strike" is the stage that will be played for the first Round.

----------------------
Character-Select Clarifications
- All characters are available.
- Zelda/Sheik are considered the same character selection choice (turning into Sheik is done as the game begins or in-game, not during character select).

----------------------
Tournament Format
Bracket: Double Elimination
Games: Best of 3
Upper\Lower Finals & Grand Finals: Best of 5

----------------------

Yes. Though upper and lower bracket semis should be a best of 5 too.

Stage List
•Battlefield
•Final Destination
•Dreamland 64

Counterpick Stage List
•Fountain of Dreams*
•Kongo Jungle 64
•Pokémon Stadium
•Yoshi's Story
​

*Fountain of Dreams is unavailable in Doubles due to lag

As said, I do have a bias, but I'd be willing to do it. Though I would bet the majority of matches would fall to Battlefield on the first set (especially with a Fox or Falcon on the screen, not many people like playing against them on FD if they aren't also a space animal). I guess Dreamland would come up a few times, but I feel it favors a lot of characters too.

Additional Rules

Dave's Modified Stupid Rule
A stage may not be selected for a Counterpick if the Team selecting it has already won on that stage in this Set.

Gentleman's Stage Select
Any stage may be used as a Counterpick if both Teams agree to it.

Tie-Breaker Modifier: %-based
If the timer runs out and stocks are tied, the Team with the lowest combined damage-% is declared the winner (before Sudden Death).

Tie Breaker Modifier: One-Stock Rematch
Sudden Death results are not used for tie-breaking. Instead, set the Stocks to 1 and replay the same stage with the same characters. The winner of this One-stock
rematch is the winner of this game.

These are all agreeable. Sudden Death should never be played out.

 

[Eggz]

Washington is bringing two Melee carpools to Guardian Games this weekend. All of you have to go.

 

[AlienAllen]

Well, there go my chances of winning

 

[JonnyW]

5 bucks last one ended sometime after midnight

Foooos we should team at GG

 

[indigestible_wad]

I personally like having the five neutral stage pick.

 

[The Jizzard]

lolololololololololololololol no one should up for the smash fest

gg's foos for like the half hour we did play. we should play again soon

 

[AlienAllen]

I would have gone but I'm in Corvallis right now.

 

[Cactuarz]

Why is timmy making the melee list?

FD is more counterpicky than yoshi's or FoD anyday... FD lets fox/falco get chain grabbed by many chars, and completely ruins some chars to where they're unplayable (bowser anyone? zelda imo and others) and 3 stock? this isn't brawl, 5 stage is fine

Edit: Keeper's list is perfect, the norm is what he's going, but with rainbow cruise as a CP, even though that's a pretty bad stage for anyone not top tier =p that could be said of almost anything though

 

[keeper]

Why is timmy making the melee list?

FD is more counterpicky than yoshi's or FoD anyday... FD lets fox/falco get chain grabbed by many chars, and completely ruins some chars to where they're unplayable (bowser anyone? zelda imo and others) and 3 stock? this isn't brawl, 5 stage is fine

Edit: Keeper's list is perfect, the norm is what he's going, but with rainbow cruise as a CP, even though that's a pretty bad stage for anyone not top tier =p that could be said of almost anything though

How are you not outraged that I omitted Brinstar?

Also, I'd have to say pretty much anyone low tier and lower is a total non-factor when considering a stage's balance at this point. Though Fox and Falco still have a general advantage against anyone that isn't Marth on FD. Marth has his advantage on Yoshi's as well, but it's not that hard to strike and Fox kill stupid early on it as well.


Edit: I didn't go to the smashfest since I don't have a bus pass currently and my school isn't selling them until Monday. Though I'm still going to Lost.

 

[Surreal]

I might be going to LOST after all I guess.

idk if I want to enter doubles or singles, but if I did doubles would anyone want to team? (I'm bad so if you want to do doubles to win then I'm probably a bad choice lol)

 

[Cactuarz]

I'm fine with brinstar being banned if RC is banned. fox had a stupidly strong stage, so he needed the stupidly bad stage to balance it ^^

Fun Facts: I like KJ64 better anyways it's jason that always picks brinstar

 

[Surreal]

I have yet to see anyone play spacies on RC stupidly, and considering that I've once had three deaths on that stage in one match by falling through the pokemon as falco, I don't see how it's as broken for spacies as everyone says.

 

[t!MmY]

I'm willing to try this out, but I like having Yoshi's and FoD as neutrals.

FoD is one of my favorite stages (and YS is probably my best CP). However, they work best as Counterpicks because of the moving platforms (plus Fly Guys on YI). I always thought YI was 'fair enough' because Fly Guys rarely disrupt the match, but then you have to be honest and realize that the death boundaries (both vertical and horizontal) give some characters a big advantage, and if they're getting a big advantage, then that should be acknowledged as a Counterpick stage.

I like it. Simple and elegant and the stages are as fair as possible.

Thanks. Efficient, unbiased rules should be what we strive for.

It's been 8 minutes for awhile, I don't know when the shift happened. I'm perfectly fine if enough people want it to be 7 minutes for it to be 7 minutes.

I wasn't advocating that we return to the old 7-min rules, I just never noticed it until now.

BTW, the 3-stock was a typo. I went back and fixed it.

Infinites are stupid, I don't know how you can argue this.

Careful there. The moment you argue for a rule addition because it's 'stupid' you open up the flood gates for everyone to make up whatever rules they want based on pretty much anything they deem 'stupid'.

For instance, a lot of people out there think Sheik is 'stupid'. Do you really think Sheik should be banned because people think she's stupid? I heard Peach called 'stupid' too - and while I know you hate Peach, do you really think that's enough to ban her?

If you think a rule should be added\removed, you have to have sound reasoning and an unbiased approach. Otherwise you get scrubby rules instead of pristine, efficient, and fair rules.

Having the other two (FoD and YS) on stage strike allows the player to strike them if they don't want to play them.

If both players really hate FD, BF, and DL and really, really do not want to play on those for the first stage...
They can always agree to a stage.

Port priority (in singles) need only be determined if either player truly cares. In which case it should be done using G&W judgment battles since that's infinitely more fun than a coin flip.

Player priority isn't used solely for ports. It's also used for character\Team color, and stage striking.

G&W Judgement
Any time a coin-flip is needed, a G&W Judgement may be used in its place:
1. One Player from each Team selects Mr. Game & Watch
2. G&W's 'Judgement' attack is used (Side Special)
3. The Team with the highest number wins the coin-flip (redo ties).

I agree with G&W Judgement.

FD is more counterpicky than yoshi's or FoD anyday...

This has been brought up before, but FD has always been a Starting Stage and will never be moved exclusively to a Counterpick because it is a 'neutral stage'. That is to say, it does not have stage elements that disrupt player interaction.

Regardless of who chaingrabs whom, or if bad characters get worse, the stages maintain their basic designs and it is on that which they are measured.