The New Phantom Thief of Persona 5 The Royal - Kasumi Yoshizawa/"Jane"

[EarlTamm]

I guess it would depend on how echo DLC worked and if it was selling for hgih enough a price to merit making CG advertisements. I wouldn't count it on though, given how casually Daisy, Dark Samus, and Chrom were revealed.

I also, personally, imagine Kasumi as a "Buy both the Fighter's Pass and the Echo Fighter's Pass to get this BONUS character" deal as well (thereby solving the awkward problem of Kasumi effectively being a cheaper way to buy Joker), which I feel would lower her probability of getting a major trailer further.

I don't think they would do a bonus element like that. And I don't see the whole "cheaper Joker" thing as much of a big deal. Let's be honest, if someone hasn't bought Joker by the point of echo DLC, they probably never will. Kasumi would just be another opportunity to grab those people.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Well, note that only echoes who got CGI trailers were third party ones.

Dark Pit was shadow-teased in Palutena's anime trailer, so

 

[Gentlepanda]

I guess it would depend on how echo DLC worked and if it was selling for hgih enough a price to merit making CG advertisements. I wouldn't count it on though, given how casually Daisy, Dark Samus, and Chrom were revealed.

I also, personally, imagine Kasumi as a "Buy both the Fighter's Pass and the Echo Fighter's Pass to get this BONUS character" deal as well (thereby solving the awkward problem of Kasumi effectively being a cheaper way to buy Joker), which I feel would lower her probability of getting a major trailer further.

since i'm doubtful about a further echo pass, one thought i had about the 'cheaper way to buy joker' conundrum is that, if she has enough tweaks, it might not even be that much of an issue business-wise

if ryu/suzaku castle were DLC in ultimate and ken was sold as a standalone, ken might be an echo but you're certainly not buying the same guy - given enough small changes, the echo can get quite distinct

 

[osby]

Dark Pit was shadow-teased in Palutena's anime trailer, so

I know, but it was (like Lucina's trailer) not in the same style with most Smash 4/Ultimate newcomers, so I didn''t count it.

 

[EarlTamm]

I know, but it was (like Lucina's trailer) not in the same style with most Smash 4/Ultimate newcomers, so I didn''t count it.

Wait, what made Lucina's reveal different?

Anyway, the fact that first party echo characters have made trailer appearances does not change the fact that the third party echo's have all gotten trailer appearances, so I don't think it's an issue.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Wait, what made Lucina's reveal different?

Anyway, the fact that first party echo characters have made trailer appearances does not change the fact that the third party echo's have all gotten trailer appearances, so I don't think it's an issue.

Probably cause Lucina got a tag line and Dark Pit didn't

which makes Dark Pit one of three newcomers in the whole Smash series who didn't get a tagline with their reveal, alongside Daisy and Inkling

 

[EarlTamm]

Probably cause Lucina got a tag line and Dark Pit didn't

which makes Dark Pit one of three newcomers in the whole Smash series who didn't get a tagline with their reveal, alongside Daisy and Inkling

I get that, I just though that he though that Lucina's trailer was in the same style as Dark Pit. The tagline is a big difference.

Kasumi tagline ideas?

 

[osby]

I get that, I just though that he though that Lucina's trailer was in the same style as Dark Pit. The tagline is a big difference.

Kasumi tagline ideas?

They are both animated in their own series' style, instead of being generic CGI like 's trailers.

Kasumi Encores!

 

[Rie Sonomura]

They are both animated in their own series' style, instead of being generic CGI like 's trailers.

Kasumi Encores!

yeah, Kasumi would get a P5 anime style trailer if anything

and this is assuming she'll be called Kasumi rather than whatever her Phantom Thief codename is

 

[EarlTamm]

They are both animated in their own series' style, instead of being generic CGI like 's trailers.

Kasumi Encores!

Ohhh... I guess that is true, but I do think Lucina has the upper hand because she has a tagline.

Kasumi... I got nothing. I am pretty sure it will be linked to her codename anyway.

Got 'd while typing.

yeah, Kasumi would get a P5 anime style trailer if anything

and this is assuming she'll be called Kasumi rather than whatever her Phantom Thief codename is

I forget, wasn't the Joker reveal animated like that because of the time they had to reveal the character?

 

[Gentlepanda]

I forget, wasn't the Joker reveal animated like that because of the time they had to reveal the character?

it was, though i figure they'll probably stick with it because it's cheaper and it's also slick as ****

maybe give kasumi's trailer a dash more colour like royal's new opening movie though

 

[Rie Sonomura]

hmm, I'm checking the TCRF page for SSBU and they mention Brave, and a bunch of other stuff, but not "Jane" in Joker's string...

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

the dream is full CG alongside another reveal

the reality is probably just a joker-style animated trailer because the precedent is there and it also means not having to dedicate a full CG trailer to an echo

Honestly I think a 2D animated trailer worked best for Joker.

 

[EarlTamm]

I feel like they won't go for the same sort of style the Joker trailer had with Kasumi. I doubt she would get a trailer on her own, as no echo has gotten that extent of treatment. Being paired with another character seems like the most she would get in this regard, and I imagine the trailer would focus more on the unique characters style than the style of the echo in the trailer. I would hope this would lead to more crossover interaction, as there was very little of that in the Joker trailer.

 

[amageish]

since i'm doubtful about a further echo pass, one thought i had about the 'cheaper way to buy joker' conundrum is that, if she has enough tweaks, it might not even be that much of an issue business-wise

if ryu/suzaku castle were DLC in ultimate and ken was sold as a standalone, ken might be an echo but you're certainly not buying the same guy - given enough small changes, the echo can get quite distinct

That is a good point, as are the other ones made. It wouldn't be out of character for Nintendo's DLC practices to lock an echo character like this, but definitely would be more controversial when being done in Smash Brothers. Salurai directly saying he doesn't like passes also kinda implies they won't have another pass, but also they already did one without him liking it so IDK. They definitely could just ignore how people could get an echo without the base character, especially as she would have a unique persona anyway...

In any case, I would still expect her to be announced alongside other echo fighters? Maybe via a CG echo fighter trailer? Unless she is the only echo fighter...

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

Honestly I wouldn’t be surprised if they just suddenly announce it on Smash’s website along with a teaser.

Edit: A teaser photo, I mean.

 

[EarlTamm]

That is a good point, as are the other ones made. It wouldn't be out of character for Nintendo's DLC practices to lock an echo character like this, but definitely would be more controversial when being done in Smash Brothers. Salurai directly saying he doesn't like passes also kinda implies they won't have another pass, but also they already did one without him liking it so IDK. They definitely could just ignore how people could get an echo without the base character, especially as she would have a unique persona anyway...

In any case, I would still expect her to be announced alongside other echo fighters? Maybe via a CG echo fighter trailer? Unless she is the only echo fighter...

Nintendo has done these sort of bonuses before, but they never lock the character behind them, just make them free. And while it is true Sakurai has said that, he also has very clearly stated his dislike for sequels as well(It's why he left Hal in the first place), and look at where we are now.

A trailer that is comprised of just echo's from a hypothetical pack would be rather cool, but I see them doing it only if they have more than one, have a distinct pack, and if they release rather close together. Nintendo loves drip feeding things, so them showing all their cards for a pack seems kinda out of character unless they all release around the same time.

 

[Gentlepanda]

my gut feeling is that if there were an entire wave of echoes in the pipeline, we would've seen at least some sign of that during e3

as it stands, if kasumi shows up then it seems more likely to me that her presence in the game is more part of a package deal with joker/persona than anything else

 

[amageish]

Nintendo has done these sort of bonuses before, but they never lock the character behind them, just make them free. And while it is true Sakurai has said that, he also has very clearly stated his dislike for sequels as well(It's why he left Hal in the first place), and look at where we are now.

A trailer that is comprised of just echo's from a hypothetical pack would be rather cool, but I see them doing it only if they have more than one, have a distinct pack, and if they release rather close together. Nintendo loves drip feeding things, so them showing all their cards for a pack seems kinda out of character unless they all release around the same time.

I mean, my thought was making her free, just free with two other passes. I'm 90% certain that the "Sakurai left HAL because of sequels" thing is a misconception, but I don't have a source for that on me. That said, it is definitely true Sakurai's words and actions don't always match-up.

That is definitely true. I don't know if the hype for echo fighters would be as high as it would be for main characters though? 1 CG trailer would allow for a lot of cool crossovers while keeping costs down, when I imagine keeping costs down would be the point of selling echo fighters.

 

[EarlTamm]

my gut feeling is that if there were an entire wave of echoes in the pipeline, we would've seen at least some sign of that during e3

as it stands, if kasumi shows up then it seems more likely to me that her presence in the game is more part of a package deal with joker/persona than anything else

I agree that Kasumi was likely a result of a package deal, especially since Sakurai seemingly got to know elements from P5R for the DLC. However, I do think a pack is still possible. It's not like Smash was majorly highlighted durring E3 besides the two character announcements. Maybe they are saving it for a time where there is more time for discussion.

I mean, my thought was making her free, just free with two other passes. I'm 90% certain that the "Sakurai left HAL because of sequels" thing is a misconception, but I don't have a source for that on me. That said, it is definitely true Sakurai's words and actions don't always match-up.

That is definitely true. I don't know if the hype for echo fighters would be as high as it would be for main characters though? 1 CG trailer would allow for a lot of cool crossovers while keeping costs down, when I imagine keeping costs down would be the point of selling echo fighters.

I don't have a precise source myself, but it's what is generally passed around and is what is put down on TV Tropes. I know that is not the most trustworthy source, but that site seems to be well monitored and checked.

If they have a trailer showcasing the echos, there will certainly be more hype than if they just dropped the news like they did with Daisy, Dark Samus and Chrom.

 

[amageish]

I agree that Kasumi was likely a result of a package deal, especially since Sakurai seemingly got to know elements from P5R for the DLC. However, I do think a pack is still possible. It's not like Smash was majorly highlighted durring E3 besides the two character announcements. Maybe they are saving it for a time where there is more time for discussion.

I don't have a precise source myself, but it's what is generally passed around and is what is put down on TV Tropes. I know that is not the most trustworthy source, but that site seems to be well monitored and checked.

If they have a trailer showcasing the echos, there will certainly be more hype than if they just dropped the news like they did with Daisy, Dark Samus and Chrom.

Here's a very detailed reddit post on it. TL;DR is that he left HAL so he could work with a variety of people across the games industry, not just HAL's pool of favourites.

Yeah, definitely. It'll be interesting to see what happens... I would love a Kasumi-focused recreation of the original Joker trailer that airs at TGAs this year where she steals her own envelope (and maybe some more for other echoes), but that is definitely expecting too much lol.

Also, if she is the first echo fighter announced for echo DLC, then that would be kind of funny, given how she's connected to wish fulfillment...

 

[EarlTamm]

Here's a very detailed reddit post on it. TL;DR is that he left HAL so he could work with a variety of people across the games industry, not just HAL's pool of favourites.

Yeah, definitely. It'll be interesting to see what happens... I would love a Kasumi-focused recreation of the original Joker trailer that airs at TGAs this year where she steals her own envelope (and maybe some more for other echoes), but that is definitely expecting too much lol.

Also, if she is the first echo fighter announced for echo DLC, then that would be kind of funny, given how she's connected to wish fulfillment...

Okay, good to know.

I actually think Kasumi getting a recreation of the Joker trailer would be quite underwhelming, all things considered.

Just pair her up with some other wish related character reveal and you are set(Like Shantae or Geno).

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Okay, good to know.

I actually think Kasumi getting a recreation of the Joker trailer would be quite underwhelming, all things considered.

Just pair her up with some other wish related character reveal and you are set(Like Shantae or Geno).

Or Kasumi with another kick-*** female character (like KOS-MOS or Elma)

let me dream

 

[amageish]

Okay, good to know.

I actually think Kasumi getting a recreation of the Joker trailer would be quite underwhelming, all things considered.

Just pair her up with some other wish related character reveal and you are set(Like Shantae or Geno).

I suppose, though I feel like Kasumi being announced as an echo alongside a DLC character would just confuse people about what she is? Show her first in the trailer to confuse people about if she's a unique DLC character, but if you show her second it's a bit of a random "And also this" moment...

It would be momentary confusion, but first impressions are very important.

Or Kasumi with another kick-*** female character (like KOS-MOS or Elma)

let me dream

Yeah, hopefully Kasumi won't be the only female character in Ultimate's DLC... Funny how two of the more-requested female characters are both from Xeno series though.

 

[EarlTamm]

I suppose, though I feel like Kasumi being announced as an echo alongside a DLC character would just confuse people about what she is? Show her first in the trailer to confuse people about if she's a unique DLC character, but if you show her second it's a bit of a random "And also this" moment...

It would be momentary confusion, but first impressions are very important.



Yeah, hopefully Kasumi won't be the only female character in Ultimate's DLC... Funny how two of the more-requested female characters are both from Xeno series though.

I guess, but I don't see her getting a reveal all to herself, which is probably the only way she could be in a trailer with a similar style to the Joker reveal. I can see Nintendo still pairing her with something else and clarifying after, as I recall it happening before. Heck, I saw some people immediately confused about the Hero alts when they were revealed.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I suppose, though I feel like Kasumi being announced as an echo alongside a DLC character would just confuse people about what she is? Show her first in the trailer to confuse people about if she's a unique DLC character, but if you show her second it's a bit of a random "And also this" moment...

It would be momentary confusion, but first impressions are very important.



Yeah, hopefully Kasumi won't be the only female character in Ultimate's DLC... Funny how two of the more-requested female characters are both from Xeno series though.

I honestly think we'd sooner get Elma than Rex, despite Elma having a Spirit. The way Rex's Mii Costume was revealed, makes me think he will not be DLC in any form

 

[amageish]

I guess, but I don't see her getting a reveal all to herself, which is probably the only way she could be in a trailer with a similar style to the Joker reveal. I can see Nintendo still pairing her with something else and clarifying after, as I recall it happening before. Heck, I saw some people immediately confused about the Hero alts when they were revealed.

It hasn't happened in a situation wherein we have a known number of characters left before, but very good point about the Hero confusion...

I honestly think we'd sooner get Elma than Rex, despite Elma having a Spirit. The way Rex's Mii Costume was revealed, makes me think he will not be DLC in any form

That is fair. There also are more X characters missing as spirits, so it'd be easier to fill a Spirits Board without feeling super filler-y?

That said, I'm expecting all third parties. KOS-MOS is definitely on my upper-tier hopes/predictions though.

 

[EarlTamm]

You know, I am seriously starting to wonder what that Persona 5 R announcement on the 17th will be, especially since they are all to willing to drop some more Persona 5 crossover bombs days before.

I know it's not Persona 5 R related, but still.

 

[Guh-Huzzah!]

Somebody tried recreating the new battle theme for P5R, if anyone is interested.

 

[Peripuff]

You know, I am seriously starting to wonder what that Persona 5 R announcement on the 17th will be, especially since they are all to willing to drop some more Persona 5 crossover bombs days before.

Did I miss something? Or is this about August 17th?

 

[EarlTamm]

Did I miss something? Or is this about August 17th?

My bad, I mixed up months.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

EarlTamm couldnt help but see your post in the Geno thread and I was honestly thinking the same thing:

Okay, so if it is Smash related, I don't think it would be a new unique character. It's far too soon for that. But rather than some sort of bonus character, what if it had something to do with an echo pack? It would make sense for them to save something like that for after E3, as I don't see an opportunity where they could have dropped that news. Smash only really had two major appearances direct wise, and that was the reveals. Such news could also be the perfect way to bring more big reveals to a potential Smash direct.

I won't lie, this next part goes right into my wants and biases, as I have been supporting and speculating this next character a ton, but I feel like there might be a connection. I have always felt that an echo pack has been in the works after the Jane file that was with Joker began to connect to Kasumi. Sakurai almost certainly knew about P5R and Kasumi due to the grappling hook Joker has, as that becomes a major gameplay element in P5R and is something learned thanks to Kasumi herself. The Jane model showed signs of being in the later stages of completion when it was found, so scrapping it entirely on a DLC budget seems odd to me. I also doubt that it was an alt, as not only is Kasumi rather different from Joker personality wise, but she majors in what is pretty much the opposite spell type, bless. There is no way she could perform eiha canon wise, and Sakurai would know that. So, because of that, I think Kasumi was being crafted as an echo character from the very start, and they had her as an alt to save on time and money. No need for an entirely new model when you are already working on the model they will echo.

Now, is she the Starling? I am not entirely sure, but it may be possible. Could be her codename, and she does have some angelic elements to her character that could tie to the whole "messenger to the gods" thing. There was another party member who named himself after a bird(Crow), but I am not sure if that helps or hinders. Not the most confident in this part of the theory, but I guess that is why you should bring this sort of stuff up.

What if Kasumi’s codename is Starling? Since you know, wishing upon a star and all that

Kasumi could also be individual DLC like PP if this is the case, OR she could be like a free Echo patched in for Joker owners or something

 

[EarlTamm]

EarlTamm couldnt help but see your post in the Geno thread and I was honestly thinking the same thing:

What if Kasumi’s codename is Starling? Since you know, wishing upon a star and all that

I doubt it would be for that reason the Phantom thieves to choose it, as codenames usually pertain in some ways to appearance(Or if that is too difficult to figure out, behavior). There is nothing about Kasumi's design that would go against Starling, but nothing that really helps either.

 

[amageish]

EarlTamm couldnt help but see your post in the Geno thread and I was honestly thinking the same thing:

What if Kasumi’s codename is Starling? Since you know, wishing upon a star and all that

Kasumi could also be individual DLC like PP if this is the case, OR she could be like a free Echo patched in for Joker owners or something

Sorry, can someone catch me up to speed on what's going on?

Phantom Thief codenames are so inconsistent in their origins that I think Kasumi's outfit could lead itself to anything from "Jester" because it's similar to Joker to "Olympian" because she's a gymnast... Starling could work, though I still speculate she'll be working against the wishgranter.

 

[EarlTamm]

Sorry, can someone catch me up to speed on what's going on?

Phantom Thief codenames are so inconsistent in their origins that I think Kasumi's outfit could lead itself to anything from "Jester" because it's similar to Joker to "Olympian" because she's a gymnast... Starling could work, though I still speculate she'll be working against the wishgranter.

Leak is floating about from a guy known for hint's through pictures(Hinted at Link's Awakening and Banjo previously) and the pic he has sent out is that of a European Starling. I recall this info first being shared by Fatmanonice , who is in a group with the leaker. If I am wrong with this retelling, anyone is free to correct me, as I have not followed this leak majorly.

Doubt Jester, as there is a confidant for that and she does not have it. I think Starling is possible, but I don't see why or how the PT's would reach that codename.

 

[amageish]

Leak is floating about from a guy known for hint's through pictures(Hinted at Link's Awakening and Banjo previously) and the pic he has sent out is that of a European Starling. I recall this info first being shared by Fatmanonice , who is in a group with the leaker. If I am wrong with this retelling, anyone is free to correct me, as I have not followed this leak majorly.

Doubt Jester, as there is a confidant for that and she does not have it. I think Starling is possible, but I don't see why or how the PT's would reach that codename.

Ahhhhhhh, okay. I think I saw Sabi/PolarPanda tweet about this, actually. That would be an impressively opaque hint if it was being done based on a not-publicly-known codename.

That is fair. Thinking about it more, if she wants to fit what can loosely be described as the connecting theme of them, then she should be named after a stock trickster character (a la Fox, Panther, Crow, and sort of Queen and Joker). Starling is a bird that, according to the first google result of "starling myth," has been used as a messenger of the gods-type character before, which isn't really a trickster role, but could be squished into one.

 

[EarlTamm]

Ahhhhhhh, okay. I think I saw Sabi/PolarPanda tweet about this, actually. That would be an impressively opaque hint if it was being done based on a not-publicly-known codename.

That is fair. Thinking about it more, if she wants to fit what can loosely be described as the connecting theme of them, then she should be named after a stock trickster character (a la Fox, Panther, Crow, and sort of Queen and Joker). Starling is a bird that, according to the first google result of "starling myth," has been used as a messenger of the gods-type character before, which isn't really a trickster role, but could be squished into one.

Yeah, Polar did tweet about it, mentioning Fatman by name. And yes it would, but this is the same person who's Link's Awakening hint was a blue crab, so you never know.

I don't think codenames are as restricted as Persona's, so I think it could still work. The fact that her Persona is rater angelic could tie into the myth.

 

[amageish]

Yeah, Polar did tweet about, mentioning Fatman by name. And yes it would, but this is the same person who's Link's Awakening hint was a blue crab, so you never know.

I don't think codenames are as restricted as Persona's, so I think it could still work. The fact that her Persona is rater angelic could tie into the myth.

Wow. Yeah, that's pretty darn obtuse.

Agreed, the codenames are incredibly inconsistent in terms of theme. Starling definitely could work, though looking at the list of Tricksters on Wikipedia, I'd kinda like "Puck" as a codename...

 

[EarlTamm]

Wow. Yeah, that's pretty darn obtuse.

Agreed, the codenames are incredibly inconsistent in terms of theme. Starling definitely could work, though looking at the list of Tricksters on Wikipedia, I'd kinda like "Puck" as a codename...

Yeah, people where pretty miffed from what I can recall. The Banjo hints were less obvious, but it's clear that this Starling case is much more similar to the blue crab.

Why Puck? Some sort of story behind it or do you just like the ring of it? I will say, if she were to be named Puck, I have the perfect clip for the name. Also, if Starling was chosen, that would certainly make me wonder about possible hinting towards some Akechi connection. We know she will interact with him, but to what extent that interaction goes to to is up in the air.

 

[amageish]

Yeah, people where pretty miffed from what I can recall. The Banjo hints were less obvious, but it's clear that this Starling case is much more similar to the blue crab.

Why Puck? Some sort of story behind it or do you just like the ring of it? I will say, if she were to be named Puck, I have the perfect clip for the name. Also, if Starling was chosen, that would certainly make me wonder about possible hinting towards some Akechi connection. We know she will interact with him, but to what extent that interaction goes to to is up in the air.

Ahhhhhhh, yeah. What was the Banjo hint like? Now, let's all watch as the parakeet from the DSi Sound App to be confirmed for Smash.

I'd like her name to continue the theatratical theme we have with her persona and her AoA pose (you know, the casual ribbon dancing in the middle of battle). Puck is a famous trickster from A Midsummer Night's Dream (and also British folklore, but definitely popularized by Shakespeare), who is also associated with wish-fulfillment and is rather morally ambiguous.

Also, Yusuke and Ann have had their new third tier personas revealed...

Spoiler: P5R Persona Spoilers

Yusuke's is Gorochiki, another of Goemon's names. Pretty standard.

Ann may take the cake for one of the weirdest persona choices ever though, as hers evolves into Celestine, Carmen's original actress. I get that it makes symbolic sense, given that Ann is herself an actress with her uncertainity about how to play the role of a seductress being a major part of her social link, but it is still kinda weird that Ann gets a random opera singer while everyone else seems to have turbo-powered thieves.