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Ahhhhhhh, yeah. What was the Banjo hint like? Now, let's all watch as the parakeet from the DSi Sound App to be confirmed for Smash.
I'd like her name to continue the theatratical theme we have with her persona and her AoA pose (you know, the casual ribbon dancing in the middle of battle). Puck is a famous trickster from A Midsummer Night's Dream (and also British folklore, but definitely popularized by Shakespeare), who is also associated with wish-fulfillment and is rather morally ambiguous.
Also, Yusuke and Ann have had their new third tier personas revealed...
Yusuke's is Gorochiki, another of Goemon's names. Pretty standard.
Ann may take the cake for one of the weirdest persona choices ever though, as hers evolves into Celestine, Carmen's original actress. I get that it makes symbolic sense, given that Ann is herself an actress with her uncertainity about how to play the role of a seductress being a major part of her social link, but it is still kinda weird that Ann gets a random opera singer while everyone else seems to have turbo-powered thieves.
I don't have any exact photo's(I think there was two, but one of them was litterally a bear pic, so it certainly was no blue crab.
That's rather cool. I assume ribbon dancing has something to do with that story? Something kinda funny though, this is the second time I have heard the mention of Shakespeare in relation to this Starling, with the first being this story.
@Ovaltine I recognized it by sight, I'm kind of embarrassed to admit. My undergrad is in zoology and one of my classes was ornithology. During that class, I had a semester long project where I had to bird watch for several months so I became familiar with the local birds. European starlings are really common in America and Europe. I told Sabi this story yesterday but, as their name suggests, they're originally from Europe but some wacko in the late 1800's was sad that not all of the birds mentioned in Shakespeare's plays were native to the United States so, he did what any sane person would do... He spent several years collecting them and then one day went to Central Park in New York City and released them all in the wild. Naturally, they're one of the most notorious invasive species in the world and the dude probably would have gone to prison for life if he had done it like 50 years later.
I don't have any exact photo's(I think there was two, but one of them was litterally a bear pic, so it certainly was no blue crab.
That's rather cool. I assume ribbon dancing has something to do with that story? Something kinda funny though, this is the second time I have heard the mention of Shakespeare in relation to this Starling, with the first being this story.
Was A Midsummer Night's Dream the story that had mentioned the Starling?
Is there any photo's of these new third tiers? The third tier Persona's looks might allow for more exploitation.
Edit:
I was able to find an article that talked about the new info(Which included the new Personas), and I have just one thing to say.
Welp, time to guess what the rest of the 3rd tiers might be
Morgana: Could be a version of either of his Personas given his origins. I'd go with either Don Diego Vega (Zorro's real name) or Hermes (the Greek counterpart of Mercurius)
Makoto: I'd go with Joan if only because I can't find anything else (I'm not good with things related to Popes)
Futaba: Al-Azif which is supposedly the original name of the Necronomicon
Haru: Lady Clarik which is a variation of Milady de Winter's name
Akechi: Could be a version of either of his Personas so I will go with either Robin of Loxley (first to take up the Robin Hood mantle) or Hveðrungr (another name for Loki, someone somewhere said it was a Jotun name or some ****)
kasumi's persona is cinderella
cinderella is a tale about granting wishes
the third semester is about granting wishes
the fairy godmother grants wishes, so she's a good candidate for kasumi's second tier
kasumi may or may not be responsible for the wishes being granted in the third semester
to reverse the wishes we must therefore defeat kasumi, aka the fairy godmother persona 5 royal's climax is exactly the same as shrek 2
Welp, time to guess what the rest of the 3rd tiers might be
Morgana: Could be a version of either of his Personas given his origins. I'd go with either Don Diego Vega (Zorro's real name) or Hermes (the Greek counterpart of Mercurius)
Makoto: I'd go with Joan if only because I can't find anything else (I'm not good with things related to Popes)
Futaba: Al-Azif which is supposedly the original name of the Necronomicon
Haru: Lady Clarik which is a variation of Milady de Winter's name
Akechi: Could be a version of either of his Personas so I will go with either Robin of Loxley (first to take up the Robin Hood mantle) or Hveðrungr (another name for Loki, someone somewhere said it was a Jotun name or some ****)
I feel like Akechi may break tradition and have a fully-unique persona as his third-tier. For Makoto, they could name the persona John, as that was supposedly Joan's name while disguised as a man.
I feel like Akechi may break tradition and have a fully-unique persona as his third-tier. For Makoto, they could name the persona John, as that was supposedly Joan's name while disguised as a man.
Modern looks is a risky decision, but I'm also super into it? I really like Celestine's hair especially.
I think they will do something rather big for Akechi as well, though I could see it still being a version of Robin Hood for reasons. All of the other third tiers are optional from what I understand, likely meaning they will have very little main story connection unless your bonds play a major factor when wishes start happening. Because Akechi's confidant is automatic because of story, I imagine you will always get his third tier as a result, so it can be more in tune with his story arc. If I understand something correctly, didn't Persona 3 connect a second tier Persona to the main story with one of the party members? With the Makoto thing, while that would fit the theme, I don't really see the connection it has to Makoto's arc, as that also seems to be a bit of thee trend.
It is risky, but I think it has payed off. Has really sold that the Persona and user has become even more connected, ditching the original fiction and mythological elements to become something more personal.
I think they will do something rather big for Akechi as well, though I could see it still being a version of Robin Hood for reasons. All of the other third tiers are optional from what I understand, likely meaning they will have very little main story connection unless your bonds play a major factor when wishes start happening. Because Akechi's confidant is automatic because of story, I imagine you will always get his third tier as a result, so it can be more in tune with his story arc. If I understand something correctly, didn't Persona 3 connect a second tier Persona to the main story with one of the party members? With the Makoto thing, while that would fit the theme, I don't really see the connection it has to Makoto's arc, as that also seems to be a bit of thee trend.
It is risky, but I think it has payed off. Has really sold that the Persona and user has become even more connected, ditching the original fiction and mythological elements to become something more personal.
Persona 3 didn't tie second-tier personas to social links, but instead to the story for everyone, yes (it also weirdly lacked social links for most party members). Persona 4 tied them to confidants, then Persona 4 Golden added a third-tier persona that was just a slight name change of their second-tier personas. Thus far P5R is doing the P4G approach, but based on the initial persona instead of the second-tier ones. I could see Akechi getting a third persona in the P3 way for sure though, true.
The only tie I see is Ann being an actress? Otherwise they have all been lesser-known names for the same character thus far... I guess they are often the "younger" names (ex/ William is what Captain Kidd would have been called before he was Captain Kidd), which could be some sort of theme?
Definitely true. The only risk is the game feeling very in-this-moment when its being replayed in 2030.
Persona 3 didn't tie second-tier personas to social links, but instead to the story for everyone, yes (it also weirdly lacked social links for most party members). Persona 4 tied them to confidants, then Persona 4 Golden added a third-tier persona that was just a slight name change of their second-tier personas. Thus far P5R is doing the P4G approach, but based on the initial persona instead of the second-tier ones. I could see Akechi getting a third persona in the P3 way for sure though, true.
The only tie I see is Ann being an actress? Otherwise they have all been lesser-known names for the same character thus far... I guess they are often the "younger" names (ex/ William is what Captain Kidd would have been called before he was Captain Kidd), which could be some sort of theme?
Definitely true. The only risk is the game feeling very in-this-moment when its being replayed in 2030.
Yeah, I imagine Akechi will go the P3 route. With the possible theme behind the third tiers, his could be a major turning point for him in relation to acceptance of himself. Now that I think about it, do you think Kasumi's confidant will be automatic like Akechi and try something similar third tier wise? I think that might be a possibility, though her confidant only going to rank 5 does muddle this up speculation wise, as that is a major unknown.
The thing about Makoto's third tier being John is that, unless there is cross dressing going on like in the original, it would be the opposite gender of the user, which would be an odd choice to me.
True, but it's not like the other Persona games had similar cases of very in-the-moment elements. Plus, the game is set in 2016, so it's not exactly timeless(Well, they do try to do the 20XX thing, but the year can be easily figured out).
Yeah, I imagine Akechi will go the P3 route. With the possible theme behind the third tiers, his could be a major turning point for him in relation to acceptance of himself. Now that I think about it, do you think Kasumi's confidant will be automatic like Akechi and try something similar third tier wise? I think that might be a possibility, though her confidant only going to rank 5 does muddle this up speculation wise, as that is a major unknown.
The thing about Makoto's third tier being John is that, unless there is cross dressing going on like in the original, it would be the opposite gender of the user, which would be an odd choice to me.
True, but it's not like the other Persona games had similar cases of very in-the-moment elements. Plus, the game is set in 2016, so it's not exactly timeless(Well, they do try to do the 20XX thing, but the year can be easily figured out).
Yeah, definitely. That said, Akechi also has so many different ways his story can go that I don't know if we can really speculate on what will happen exactly... That said, I'm starting to wonder...
What if Akechi is the wish-granter? Like, he feels so guilty about his actions that he decides to just start granting wishes for people, hoping it'll atone for his sins. This makes some thieves happy, others not, so Joker and Kasumi join forces to try and stop him - with Joker wanting to talk sense into him and Kasumi not really caring about him as a person. Akechi ultimately comes around to do the idea that justice is hard to define and that simply granting wishes does not solve the problems of the world, joining the party once more, but not before another big bad god is summoned that everyone has to work together to fight.
It would give him more screentime and continue his morals as a major focus? Like, the entire game would be him learning how to cope with his actions, the actions of others, and the subjectivity of justice. It would kind of suck to have him still be morally-not-good, but it would avoid the potential of Kasumi being too Akechi-y?
I think Kasumi will be like Marie in P4G - you have to choose to hang out with her, but it is spread out across the game when you can do the different levels. Only difference is that she visually shows her inability to advance via the confidant not ranking up fully.
I mean, the persona would still be female, she just has a masculine name. I don't think that's too out of the ordinary for Makoto, given how gender roles are pretty interwoven with her arc already.
Yeah, the 20XX thing is very silly. I do think it works; I'm just kinda surprised? As, yeah, they do have flavour text that reads "YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAS PHANTOM THIEVES" at some point in the game, which solidifies the era for sure, but this is another level.
The thing about Makoto's third tier being John is that, unless there is cross dressing going on like in the original, it would be the opposite gender of the user, which would be an odd choice to me.
Yeah, definitely. That said, Akechi also has so many different ways his story can go that I don't know if we can really speculate on what will happen exactly... That said, I'm starting to wonder...
What if Akechi is the wish-granter? Like, he feels so guilty about his actions that he decides to just start granting wishes for people, hoping it'll atone for his sins. This makes some thieves happy, others not, so Joker and Kasumi join forces to try and stop him - with Joker wanting to talk sense into him and Kasumi not really caring about him as a person. Akechi ultimately comes around to do the idea that justice is hard to define and that simply granting wishes does not solve the problems of the world, joining the party once more, but not before another big bad god is summoned that everyone has to work together to fight.
It would give him more screentime and continue his morals as a major focus? Like, the entire game would be him learning how to cope with his actions, the actions of others, and the subjectivity of justice. It would kind of suck to have him still be morally-not-good, but it would avoid the potential of Kasumi being too Akechi-y?
I think Kasumi will be like Marie in P4G - you have to choose to hang out with her, but it is spread out across the game when you can do the different levels. Only difference is that she visually shows her inability to advance via the confidant not ranking up fully.
I mean, the persona would still be female, she just has a masculine name. I don't think that's too out of the ordinary for Makoto, given how gender roles are pretty interwoven with her arc already.
Yeah, the 20XX thing is very silly. I do think it works; I'm just kinda surprised? As, yeah, they do have flavour text that reads "YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAS PHANTOM THIEVES" at some point in the game, which solidifies the era for sure, but this is another level.
Interesting theory, but I am too sure about it entirely. Maybe it's because of how little Kasumi would be involved with the wish plot that is giving me some vibes, since we know she has at least crushed some dream. That feels like a hint towards a role that has a bit more involvement. And while this role would result in Kasumi possibly feeling less Akechi-y, doesn't that insinuate the risk that Akechi would be repeating similar story beats that he had done previously? There is also the whole Akechi in the bus thing.
If that's the case, what would happen if you choose not to level her up? If she is more involved with the overall wish story, that might result in quite the change.
Interesting theory, but I am too sure about it entirely. Maybe it's because of how little Kasumi would be involved with the wish plot that is giving me some vibes, since we know she has at least crushed some dream. That feels like a hint towards a role that has a bit more involvement. And while this role would result in Kasumi possibly feeling less Akechi-y, doesn't that insinuate the risk that Akechi would be repeating similar story beats that he had done previously? There is also the whole Akechi in the bus thing.
If that's the case, what would happen if you choose not to level her up? If she is more involved with the overall wish story, that might result in quite the change.
True, but also she specifies that "I was the one to crush that dream." So, I highly doubt she's granting wishes, unless the dream she crushed was the dream of people who didn't want to have their dreams magically granted? Plus, her entire ideology thus far has been worrying about the thieves becoming too messianic, so it'd be weird to have her be the wish-granter? They'd have to do some legwork during the first two terms to make her change her ideology in such a major way. Akechi, meanwhile, has a change of ideology right before we last see him in P5.
I do think he'll be a party member, but we'll need a dungeon or two of Joker reuniting the wish-distracted thieves and working alongside Kasumi before Akechi sees what he is doing is also wrong and joins the Thieves. Akechi learning to be good while still repeating the old habit of "solve everything via metaverse" would definitely have some basic story repeats, but that's kind of realistic when Akechi is someone who has spent his life in toxic cycles?
Kasumi turning up and being evil, leading to Akechi and Joker forming an unlikely alliance just feels kind of cheap to me. I also don't really know if you could justify Kasumi as being worse then Akechi if she's the wish-granter, as at least wish-granting is just a bad way of helping people versus Akechi's active murder sprees.
That is true, though most characters have their stories kinda shortened if you don't level their link up. Plus, it's very possible her main story is in the cutscenes while her side-story is in the confidant - Makoto definitely takes this approach to her story in vanilla P5, which likely aided in her popularity.
True, but also she specifies that "I was the one to crush that dream." So, I highly doubt she's granting wishes, unless the dream she crushed was the dream of people who didn't want to have their dreams magically granted? Plus, her entire ideology thus far has been worrying about the thieves becoming too messianic, so it'd be weird to have her be the wish-granter? They'd have to do some legwork during the first two terms to make her change her ideology in such a major way. Akechi, meanwhile, has a change of ideology right before we last see him in P5.
I do think he'll be a party member, but we'll need a dungeon or two of Joker reuniting the wish-distracted thieves and working alongside Kasumi before Akechi sees what he is doing is also wrong and joins the Thieves. Akechi learning to be good while still repeating the old habit of "solve everything via metaverse" would definitely have some basic story repeats, but that's kind of realistic when Akechi is someone who has spent his life in toxic cycles?
Kasumi turning up and being evil, leading to Akechi and Joker forming an unlikely alliance just feels kind of cheap to me. I also don't really know if you could justify Kasumi as being worse then Akechi if she's the wish-granter, as at least wish-granting is just a bad way of helping people versus Akechi's active murder sprees.
That is true, though most characters have their stories kinda shortened if you don't level their link up. Plus, it's very possible her main story is in the cutscenes while her side-story is in the confidant - Makoto definitely takes this approach to her story in vanilla P5, which likely aided in her popularity.
I can undersand your view on it kinda being cheap, but this idea(At least in your original concept) would also be repeating the god thing so there could be an alliance as well. Kinda seems like a bigger evil is the natural instinct here. Plus, many of us have been suspecting that Kasumi wouldn't be evil, but still be in some way a cause of whatever probelm is going on, intentionally or not. She doesn't have to pull the same evil twist as Akechi.
Another thing, this would be the second unique ability Akechi would get, which I don't imagine he would get naturally. If he got it from whatever new god enters the picture, Akech would once again be a pawn to some god. I get repeating habits, but this goes a bit beyond that if this is the case.
Honestly, I don't know. Rather tired at this point and am on mobile(If there is any spelling errors, that's why), so kinda just saying what comes to mind. I imagine we will get possible hints if they ever decide to show more Akechi in promotion. Actually... we do have that one Akechi conversation where he is angry at Joker. Kinda keep forgetting about that. What do you think that is all about in relation to your theory?
That is a possibility, but I feel like something rather major is hiding behind that cut off(The fact that is even has a visible cutoff is rather interesting to me, aling with the whole teared up element of the card).
I can undersand your view on it kinda being cheap, but this idea(At least in your original concept) would also be repeating the god thing so there could be an alliance as well. Kinda seems like a bigger evil is the natural instinct here. Plus, many of us have been suspecting that Kasumi wouldn't be evil, but still be in some way a cause of whatever probelm is going on, intentionally or not. She doesn't have to pull the same evil twist as Akechi.
Another thing, this would be the second unique ability Akechi would get, which I don't imagine he would get naturally. If he got it from whatever new god enters the picture, Akech would once again be a pawn to some god. I get repeating habits, but this goes a bit beyond that if this is the case.
Honestly, I don't know. Rather tired at this point and am on mobile(If there is any spelling errors, that's why), so kinda just saying what comes to mind. I imagine we will get possible hints if they ever decide to show more Akechi in promotion. Actually... we do have that one Akechi conversation where he is angry at Joker. Kinda keep forgetting about that. What do you think that is all about in relation to your theory?
That is a possibility, but I feel like something rather major is hiding behind that cut off(The fact that is even has a visible cutoff is rather interesting to me, aling with the whole teared up element of the card).
That is true as well. Persona does really love the "Let's get together and kill a god" motif though, plus Gnostism is a duotheistic religion. It's kind of weird how Persona 5 has you kill one of the two Gnostic gods to end the game, while the other one is just MIA. Regardless of who the humans involved are, I think it's pretty safe to say that will be repeated.
True. I'm not saying Kasumi has to be perfect either - I mean, reading far too deep into the little we know, she could be seen as pretty entitled, as she is telling others to solve their own problems while seemingly having her life organized by others who genuinely have her best interests in mind. She doesn't have the same gritty backstory of the other characters, from what we've seen. I just don't like the idea of her ideology being thrown away for her to be the wish-granter, as I like how she pushes back against the thieves in an atypical way.
I don't know if we can say wish-granting is a new ability exclusive to one person yet. It is very possible the metaverse changes post-god-death and this is now something anyone in the metaverse can do. I would not want Akechi to be the pawn of a god though, yeah. Just a dude who is trying his best to be good, while not doing a very good job at it. The god can be in the background for everyone to dramatically team up against at the end.
Yeah, that's fair. I don't really know either, nor do I fully believe everything I'm speculating. Akechi's yelling confuses me too, though I do wonder if that footage may be part of a new bad ending a la P4G.
The only things I feel fairly confident about are: (i) the wish-granting will splinter the thieves, causing Joker/Morgana to form an uncomfortable-at-best alliance with Kasumi, and (ii) Sophia, the other Gnostic god, will appear in a major form.
That is true. The broken card is especially interesting for sure... I'd like to know more about the sort-of-no-sort-of-yes new confidants, as I wonder if there will be more that help explain this...
still wondering if being able to save akechi will turn out to be joker's dream world wish, and it brings back the 'real' akechi who knows he should be by all rights dead
then **** happens with kasumi (probably with her having good intentions instead of being straight up cackling evil), akechi rejoins the party to help fix the wishes, finds his redemption arc somewhere along the way in his interactions with the thieves, then ultimately gets one big emotional goodbye before the wishes are all reverted and he goes back to being dead
not sure how consistent being the wish-granter is with kasumi's ideology, though it does seem significant to me that cinderella is all about the granting of wishes - all it takes is a 2nd-tier upgrade to something like fairy godmother to go from granted to granter
That is true as well. Persona does really love the "Let's get together and kill a god" motif though, plus Gnostism is a duotheistic religion. It's kind of weird how Persona 5 has you kill one of the two Gnostic gods to end the game, while the other one is just MIA. Regardless of who the humans involved are, I think it's pretty safe to say that will be repeated.
True. I'm not saying Kasumi has to be perfect either - I mean, reading far too deep into the little we know, she could be seen as pretty entitled, as she is telling others to solve their own problems while seemingly having her life organized by others who genuinely have her best interests in mind. She doesn't have the same gritty backstory of the other characters, from what we've seen. I just don't like the idea of her ideology being thrown away for her to be the wish-granter, as I like how she pushes back against the thieves in an atypical way.
I don't know if we can say wish-granting is a new ability exclusive to one person yet. It is very possible the metaverse changes post-god-death and this is now something anyone in the metaverse can do. I would not want Akechi to be the pawn of a god though, yeah. Just a dude who is trying his best to be good, while not doing a very good job at it. The god can be in the background for everyone to dramatically team up against at the end.
Yeah, that's fair. I don't really know either, nor do I fully believe everything I'm speculating. Akechi's yelling confuses me too, though I do wonder if that footage may be part of a new bad ending a la P4G.
The only things I feel fairly confident about are: (i) the wish-granting will splinter the thieves, causing Joker/Morgana to form an uncomfortable-at-best alliance with Kasumi, and (ii) Sophia, the other Gnostic god, will appear in a major form.
That is true. The broken card is especially interesting for sure... I'd like to know more about the sort-of-no-sort-of-yes new confidants, as I wonder if there will be more that help explain this...
Yeah, at this point, speculating this sort of thing can be rather complex. I do agree with what you are confident with, as that first one can be easily supported and when you have one part of duo, you expect the other to show up eventually. What exactly is Sophia known for though, as that seems rather important for all of this.
I wish we knew more about the new confidants as well. Not only with Kasumi's bizarre one, but also with Atlus hinting at Takuto being rather important. I swear, the fact that a ton of people, me included, got P4 killer vibes from him in not a good sign.
still wondering if being able to save akechi will turn out to be joker's dream world wish, and it brings back the 'real' akechi who knows he should be by all rights dead
then **** happens with kasumi (probably with her having good intentions instead of being straight up cackling evil), akechi rejoins the party to help fix the wishes, finds his redemption arc somewhere along the way in his interactions with the thieves, then ultimately gets one big emotional goodbye before the wishes are all reverted and he goes back to being dead
not sure how consistent being the wish-granter is with kasumi's ideology, though it does seem significant to me that cinderella is all about the granting of wishes - all it takes is a 2nd-tier upgrade to something like fairy godmother to go from granted to granter
The idea that Akechi survives because of a wish from Joker would be a rather neat gut punching concept, especially if Atlus does a good job of hiding this(At least in comparison to the other wishes). Something that has been bothering me is that if all of your party members are getting wishes, what would be exempting Joker? That could be the answer. Might also give a reason why he would still be allowed to run around free after doing what he did and maybe even what he was yelling about in the trailer. Still not sure about the Fairy Godmother thing, however.
Edit:
Most of us will be asleep for this I imagine, but it's good to note before it releases.
The trailer will drop 6:00 PM JST. I look forward to what her wish will be. Considering the picture has Joker in his winter coat, I am guessing that pic is the wish scene, meaning it has something to do with Sae.
still wondering if being able to save akechi will turn out to be joker's dream world wish, and it brings back the 'real' akechi who knows he should be by all rights dead
then **** happens with kasumi (probably with her having good intentions instead of being straight up cackling evil), akechi rejoins the party to help fix the wishes, finds his redemption arc somewhere along the way in his interactions with the thieves, then ultimately gets one big emotional goodbye before the wishes are all reverted and he goes back to being dead
not sure how consistent being the wish-granter is with kasumi's ideology, though it does seem significant to me that cinderella is all about the granting of wishes - all it takes is a 2nd-tier upgrade to something like fairy godmother to go from granted to granter
Interesting idea! Definitely major gut-punch potential there. I do like the idea of Joker having an Akechi-related wish, but I also feel like there is too much to suggest Akechi isn't dead already that they don't really need wish-magic to bring him back? Plus, they probably want him alive for Arena and whatever other spin-offs they decide to do anyway.
Assuming Kasumi's ideology can be taken at face-value, she should hate the wish-granter. Her argument is that people become too dependent on the Thieves and aren't taking action to solve their own problems. Granting wishes would be the epitome of what she hates.
She is, however, also pretty privileged. She starts school alongside Joker, but while he is seen as a delinquent day one, she is very well-treated due to being a star athlete. I assume that's the Cinderella connection - she's had her wishes granted for her, with a mix personal strife/effort (matching Cinderella, who isn't really a passive character, especially in the specific opera they chose for the Persona) and a lot of luck (a la Cinderella having a fairy godmother).
Yeah, at this point, speculating this sort of thing can be rather complex. I do agree with what you are confident with, as that first one can be easily supported and when you have one part of duo, you expect the other to show up eventually. What exactly is Sophia known for though, as that seems rather important for all of this.
I wish we knew more about the new confidants as well. Not only with Kasumi's bizarre one, but also with Atlus hinting at Takuto being rather important. I swear, the fact that a ton of people, me included, got P4 killer vibes from him in not a good sign.
Sophia is basically Jesus, to grossly simplify an overly-complicated ancient religion. She creates knowledge/emotions/the soul/hope/etc alongside Yaldabaoth, who created order and the physical world. She's generally considered responsible for the change of tone between the Old Testament and New Testament, with her being the god of the new testament who is more relaxed about following rules and more concerned about having faith. While not explicitly tied to wish-granting, it wouldn't be too a much stretch.
Yeah, he's an interesting one as well. Definitely seems a little too good to be true, though I'd be surprised if he was actually flat-out evil - I imagine he will learn how to be better across the confidant, even if he starts out being bad. I mostly want to know how we both do and do not have more new confidants....
Interesting idea! Definitely major gut-punch potential there. I do like the idea of Joker having an Akechi-related wish, but I also feel like there is too much to suggest Akechi isn't dead already that they don't really need wish-magic to bring him back? Plus, they probably want him alive for Arena and whatever other spin-offs they decide to do anyway.
Assuming Kasumi's ideology can be taken at face-value, she should hate the wish-granter. Her argument is that people become too dependent on the Thieves and aren't taking action to solve their own problems. Granting wishes would be the epitome of what she hates.
She is, however, also pretty privileged. She starts school alongside Joker, but while he is seen as a delinquent day one, she is very well-treated due to being a star athlete. I assume that's the Cinderella connection - she's had her wishes granted for her, with a mix personal strife/effort (matching Cinderella, who isn't really a passive character, especially in the specific opera they chose for the Persona) and a lot of luck (a la Cinderella having a fairy godmother).
Sophia is basically Jesus, to grossly simplify an overly-complicated ancient religion. She creates knowledge/emotions/the soul/hope/etc alongside Yaldabaoth, who created order and the physical world. She's generally considered responsible for the change of tone between the Old Testament and New Testament, with her being the god of the new testament who is more relaxed about following rules and more concerned about having faith. While not explicitly tied to wish-granting, it wouldn't be too a much stretch.
Yeah, he's an interesting one as well. Definitely seems a little too good to be true, though I'd be surprised if he was actually flat-out evil - I imagine he will learn how to be better across the confidant, even if he starts out being bad. I mostly want to know how we both do and do not have more new confidants....
Just because a wish pulls a seeming revival, that wouldn't mean Atlus would louse there Schrodinger cat situation. Think about it. Joker believes Akechi is dead. That is his perspective, his cognition. Depending on how the rules of this wish work, the revived Akechi could be more of a clone than anything and the real Akechi is still out there somewhere. That is assuming, however, that the real Akechi still lives, which is all up to Atlus.
Yeah, that ideology would be a bit contradictory. We still have more to see however.
Yeah, it's clear that Joker and Kasumi are foils in that regard. Wonder how that strife and luck would translate over, however.
(this next bit is related to that second spoiler)
I can see how wish granting could be linked to her. If she is supposed to be some messiah, these wishes could be a part of that. It could be seen to some as some ultimate paradise, but the cost of said paradise could cost something that Sophia's godly nature wouldn't understand. It's kinda weird how this idea kinda feels different from the normal Persona god story, but not really. I don't know why I am getting that feeling.
I completely forgot about that statement they made about Confidants! What does that mean? I don't recall us speculation too much about it.
Just because a wish pulls a seeming revival, that wouldn't mean Atlus would louse there Schrodinger cat situation. Think about it. Joker believes Akechi is dead. That is his perspective, his cognition. Depending on how the rules of this wish work, the revived Akechi could be more of a clone than anything and the real Akechi is still out there somewhere. That is assuming, however, that the real Akechi still lives, which is all up to Atlus.
Yeah, that ideology would be a bit contradictory. We still have more to see however.
Yeah, it's clear that Joker and Kasumi are foils in that regard. Wonder how that strife and luck would translate over, however.
(this next bit is related to that second spoiler)
I can see how wish granting could be linked to her. If she is supposed to be some messiah, these wishes could be a part of that. It could be seen to some as some ultimate paradise, but the cost of said paradise could cost something that Sophia's godly nature wouldn't understand. It's kinda weird how this idea kinda feels different from the normal Persona god story, but not really. I don't know why I am getting that feeling.
I completely forgot about that statement they made about Confidants! What does that mean? I don't recall us speculation too much about it.
That is definitely true as well. It would depend on how public his return is though, as Akechi is a celebrity after all. One imagines he'd have some questions if he saw himself on the news.
Yeah, she could evolve in a way that makes her granting wishes make sense. I don't think it is impossible for her to be the wishgranter either; I just find it odd how speculation often takes it as a given, when what little we've seen of her suggests she is crushing dreams, not granting them.
That's the big question for sure. Also how it ties to Akechi, who is also Joker's foil. This game will have a lot of "We're not so different, me and you" moments lol.
I agree 100% about Sophia. I imagine the uniqueness is partly because she's more actively involved with humanity, while most of the gods in Persona are basically just drawing on human wants to destroy the world. Trying to create a wish-fufilled heaven on earth suggests more ambition then just "Yeah, humans suck. Let's watch them fail."
That is definitely true as well. It would depend on how public his return is though, as Akechi is a celebrity after all. One imagines he'd have some questions if he saw himself on the news.
Yeah, she could evolve in a way that makes her granting wishes make sense. I don't think it is impossible for her to be the wishgranter either; I just find it odd how speculation often takes it as a given, when what little we've seen of her suggests she is crushing dreams, not granting them.
That's the big question for sure. Also how it ties to Akechi, who is also Joker's foil. This game will have a lot of "We're not so different, me and you" moments lol.
I agree 100% about Sophia. I imagine the uniqueness is partly because she's more actively involved with humanity, while most of the gods in Persona are basically just drawing on human wants to destroy the world. Trying to create a wish-fufilled heaven on earth suggests more ambition then just "Yeah, humans suck. Let's watch them fail."
That is assuming that Akechi would be in such a position to find out about this stuff. We really have no idea what Atlus could pull with what happened to him. Doubt he is hiding in the human world though.
I think people have mostly put two and two together when it comes to a new person=Connection/cause of new plot.
There a screenshot of the three drinking cofee or tea together, so I have little doubt that the trio will have their moments.
Yeah, but I think my feeling of familiarity is that it is still a god misinterpreting what humanity truly wants and/or needs. That heaven twist does make a difference however, as that is a nice twist on the formula.
I just realized, do you think Sophia would have her own bad ending where she still rules like Yaldabaoth did? I feel that her ending would be much more logical a possibility than Yaldabaoth's however, as we now have the wishes seducing everyone and probably really guilting Joker. There is no existence where Joker would logically join Yaldabaoth after all the stuff he went through.
I agree 100% about Sophia. I imagine the uniqueness is partly because she's more actively involved with humanity, while most of the gods in Persona are basically just drawing on human wants to destroy the world. Trying to create a wish-fufilled heaven on earth suggests more ambition then just "Yeah, humans suck. Let's watch them fail."
I completely forgot about Izanami(Don't know about any Snow Queen). I gues she did try for everlasting peace, but it had more of a blissful ignorance sort of method rather than letting everyone get what they want if I recall correct.
I completely forgot about Izanami(Don't know about any Snow Queen). I gues she did try for everlasting peace, but it had more of a blissful ignorance sort of method rather than letting everyone get what they want if I recall correct.
Snow Queen is one of the two final bosses in the very first Persona (aka Nyx, but not the one in P3). Her ultimate goal is to create an "eternal night," where nobody ever wakes up.
And yeah, neither of them granted the desires of individual people, but rather humanity as a whole. If there's a new god in P5R that makes wishes come true, I can see it extending to only Phantom Thieves and maybe some other people.
If it can create a new reality that's suited for literally everyone, we are talking about an entity that's a lot smarter than almost any other enemies we've seen in Persona.
That is assuming that Akechi would be in such a position to find out about this stuff. We really have no idea what Atlus could pull with what happened to him. Doubt he is hiding in the human world though.
I think people have mostly put two and two together when it comes to a new person=Connection/cause of new plot.
There a screenshot of the three drinking cofee or tea together, so I have little doubt that the trio will have their moments.
Yeah, but I think my feeling of familiarity is that it is still a god misinterpreting what humanity truly wants and/or needs. That heaven twist does make a difference however, as that is a nice twist on the formula.
I just realized, do you think Sophia would have her own bad ending where she still rules like Yaldabaoth did? I feel that her ending would be much more logical a possibility than Yaldabaoth's however, as we now have the wishes seducing everyone and probably really guilting Joker. There is no existence where Joker would logically join Yaldabaoth after all the stuff he went through.
That is true as well. He could just be hanging out in the metaverse until Arena for all we know.
Yeah, that does make some sense, but I just don't see Kasumi being the main causer of the plot.
Well, yeah, I don't know if you can have a god worth killing if it isn't misinterpreting what humanity needs... If it's doing a good job, then it's probably fine to leave it be haha.
That is an interesting question... I imagine that she will have a bad ending, maybe in the style of P4 Anime's final episode? Eternal shallow happiness that becomes increasingly insane.
Don't both of them also use the "Well, let's let fate decide" method that Yaldabaoth does? Not quite as hands-on as helping grant individual wishes, even if they also want a new heaven on earth. I'm not an expert on the Snow Queen though; I played the original localization of P1 as I apparently hate myself.
Ah crap, ya beat me to it. Anyway, about the trailer. I like what I see. I think it's pretty nifty that we get to see a more casual side of Sae, her Showtime attack looks great, and I enjoyed it. but if Makoto's wish is to shoot a volleyball through the Earth and out the other side, then that is one weird *** wish.
That is true as well. He could just be hanging out in the metaverse until Arena for all we know.
Yeah, that does make some sense, but I just don't see Kasumi being the main causer of the plot.
Well, yeah, I don't know if you can have a god worth killing if it isn't misinterpreting what humanity needs... If it's doing a good job, then it's probably fine to leave it be haha.
That is an interesting question... I imagine that she will have a bad ending, maybe in the style of P4 Anime's final episode? Eternal shallow happiness that becomes increasingly insane.
Don't both of them also use the "Well, let's let fate decide" method that Yaldabaoth does? Not quite as hands-on as helping grant individual wishes, even if they also want a new heaven on earth. I'm not an expert on the Snow Queen though; I played the original localization of P1 as I apparently hate myself.
I have not really watched the anime bedsides clips of some of the funny dub moments, but I have seen and heard part of what happens in the final episode. Groundhog Day, correct?
Okay, when it comes to that Makoto trailer, here are some of the things I found interesting(Thanks subs). Also, spoilers because theorycrafting.
They are talking about their father more. That was quite a touchy topic before, and I am not really getting a "he's dead now" signal. And why would Makoto's birthday be brought up? April 23rd should be quite a way away.
I find Makoto and Ryuji's conversation rather interesting. I haven't really focused on these party bits too much before, but I find it odd that they would hide what Ryujii was joking about and Makoto agreed on. With them being the ones partnered up this trailer, it's making me wonder...
There is no floor of Mementos! What's most telling, however, is it's dead appearance. All of the red has been sucked out, and considering that red was compared to veins before, I think this is a post killing Yaldabaoth Mementos. If someone could check their stats to tell around what level they are, that would be great.
The volleyball clip showcases that events like the beach trip will be expanded on. Since we previously saw Kasumi konichiwaing Joker in Hawaii, I think this will extend to most of the original big events. That's great, as I felt like a lot of those were squandered potential wise.
I have not really watched the anime bedsides clips of some of the funny dub moments, but I have seen and heard part of what happens in the final episode. Groundhogs Day, correct?
Okay, when it comes to that Makoto trailer, here are some of the things I found interesting(Thanks subs). Also, spoilers because theorycrafting.
They are talking about their father more. That was quite a touchy topic before, and I am not really getting a "he's dead now" signal. And why would Makoto's birthday be brought up? April 23rd should be quite a way away.
I find Makoto and Ryuji's conversation rather interesting. I haven't really focused on these party bits too much before, but I find it odd that they would hide what Ryujii was joking about and Makoto agreed on. With them being the ones partnered up this trailer, it's making me wonder...
There is no floor of Mementos! What's most telling, however, is it's dead appearance. All of the red has been sucked out, and considering that red was compared to veins before, I think this is a post killing Yaldabaoth Mementos. If someone could check their stats to tell around what level they are, that would be great.
The volleyball clip showcases that events like the beach trip will be expanded on. Since we previously saw Kasumi konichiwaing Joker in Hawaii, I think this will extend to most of the original big events. That's great, as I felt like a lot of those were squandered potential wise.
Trailer wise, we for sure have at least a Haru trailer on the horizon. Considering the rate these are coming out at, it's making me wonder if there will be any trailers for Morgana(Who has been notably skipped) and Akechi(Who is in a rather mysterious position due to how little we have seen him in P5R promotional material). I think we will get all of the character trailers they plan on showing us by August 17th, as that is when they will have that special P5R announcement. I imagine it will be big when it comes to news about this game, so I don't imagine they will have these character teasers after it.
I have not really watched the anime bedsides clips of some of the funny dub moments, but I have seen and heard part of what happens in the final episode. Groundhog Day, correct?
Okay, when it comes to that Makoto trailer, here are some of the things I found interesting(Thanks subs). Also, spoilers because theorycrafting.
They are talking about their father more. That was quite a touchy topic before, and I am not really getting a "he's dead now" signal. And why would Makoto's birthday be brought up? April 23rd should be quite a way away.
I find Makoto and Ryuji's conversation rather interesting. I haven't really focused on these party bits too much before, but I find it odd that they would hide what Ryujii was joking about and Makoto agreed on. With them being the ones partnered up this trailer, it's making me wonder...
There is no floor of Mementos! What's most telling, however, is it's dead appearance. All of the red has been sucked out, and considering that red was compared to veins before, I think this is a post killing Yaldabaoth Mementos. If someone could check their stats to tell around what level they are, that would be great.
The volleyball clip showcases that events like the beach trip will be expanded on. Since we previously saw Kasumi konichiwaing Joker in Hawaii, I think this will extend to most of the original big events. That's great, as I felt like a lot of those were squandered potential wise.
Kind of? Yu is given his wish of forever with his friends, but it slowly spirals out of control as the day becomes more and more hallucinatory/weird. So, basically Groundhog Day if it was directed by Scarecrow from Batman.
Good observations about Makoto's trailer. I don't have much to say (for once haha ). I'm interested in what will be up with her, as she was one of the more fleshed out characters already in the base game.
Kind of? Yu is given his wish of forever with his friends, but it slowly spirals out of control as the day becomes more and more hallucinatory/weird. So, basically Groundhog Day if it was directed by Scarecrow from Batman.
Good observations about Makoto's trailer. I don't have much to say (for once haha ). I'm interested in what will be up with her, as she was one of the more fleshed out characters already in the base game.
Is there any reason for the craziness? Is it all in his head or Izanami just being a troll? Because if Steins;Gate has taught me anything, it's that time loop bad ending really mess with the MC mentally on an insane level. Like, really bad.
Color me surprised. I have some theories floating around, but I think I am going to wait a bit to see if anything comes along to solidify them any more. We have at least Haru to look forward to in the near future.
Is there any reason for the craziness? Is it all in his head or Izanami just being a troll? Because if Steins;Gate has taught me anything, it's that time loop bad ending really mess with the MC mentally on an insane level. Like, really bad.
Color me surprised. I have some theories floating around, but I think I am going to wait a bit to see if anything comes along to solidify them any more. We have at least Haru to look forward to in the near future.
It's Izanami trying to werar him down and into giving up. Yes, I also was thinking of Steins;Gate getting the moment.
Sounds fair! Haru will be pretty hype. She has a lot of potential directions to go, given how the base game didn't do a whole lot with her... I'm hoping they explore her less-proper more-angry side, as that was basically just used for humor in the base game.
It's Izanami trying to werar him down and into giving up. Yes, I also was thinking of Steins;Gate getting the moment.
Sounds fair! Haru will be pretty hype. She has a lot of potential directions to go, given how the base game didn't do a whole lot with her... I'm hoping they explore her less-proper more-angry side, as that was basically just used for humor in the base game.
Haru is definitely the party member that has the most to benefit from a third trimester, considering how little we got of her. Even with her probably being not at school because of her being a third year, I am sure a way will be found for her to have more impact.
On another note, my mind got this new idea about those one on one scene's party members have been getting. I was going to save this among other things for after Haru, but the idea has just got me too excited.
Clearly, as was implied in the Ryuji trailer when he was talking to Yusuke, those are the key to getting these team up moves. I was wondering about the circumstances to get them and how far they would go with it when my mind reached an up to 11 conclusion of this mechanic. I don't know about you guys, but it's always been a bummer to me that the party members are always destined to remain single unless the protag sweeps them off their feet. "Doesn't matter if Kanji likes Naoto, that ain't ever going to be acted upon because Naoto is an option for the player." That has always bothered me. Now, I hear that earlier games avert this, but what about the new ones? Seeing people reactions to the Ryuji and Makoto interaction made me realize the full potential of these scenes though. To me, I find it hard to believe that the party members would go through one scene and get a team up move, so I would think these scenes with party members would be like there own mini confidants. The team attack gotten from each of these mini confidants would be like the rewards gotten from normal confidants, so what is there to say that there isn't other similarities between the two? I am hoping the potential for romancing is one of those possible similarities.
Now, I get the feeling that there is holes in this idea and that the way I typed it out might not make the most sense, but that is what happens when you just kinda let your brain vomit out an idea you just had the same day. I would very much like your guys input on this, as that might help either debunk the possibility or help solidify it's potential to happen.
Haru is definitely the party member that has the most to benefit from a third trimester, considering how little we got of her. Even with her probably being not at school because of her being a third year, I am sure a way will be found for her to have more impact.
On another note, my mind got this new idea about those one on one scene's party members have been getting. I was going to save this among other things for after Haru, but the idea has just got me too excited.
Clearly, as was implied in the Ryuji trailer when he was talking to Yusuke, those are the key to getting these team up moves. I was wondering about the circumstances to get them and how far they would go with it when my mind reached an up to 11 conclusion of this mechanic. I don't know about you guys, but it's always been a bummer to me that the party members are always destined to remain single unless the protag sweeps them off their feet. "Doesn't matter if Kanji likes Naoto, that ain't ever going to be acted upon because Naoto is an option for the player." That has always bothered me. Now, I hear that earlier games avert this, but what about the new ones? Seeing people reactions to the Ryuji and Makoto interaction made me realize the full potential of these scenes though. To me, I find it hard to believe that the party members would go through one scene and get a team up move, so I would think these scenes with party members would be like there own mini confidants. The team attack gotten from each of these mini confidants would be like the rewards gotten from normal confidants, so what is there to say that there isn't other similarities between the two? I am hoping the potential for romancing is one of those possible similarities.
Now, I get the feeling that there is holes in this idea and that the way I typed it out might not make the most sense, but that is what happens when you just kinda let your brain vomit out an idea you just had the same day. I would very much like your guys input on this, as that might help either debunk the possibility or help solidify it's potential to happen.
Yeah, definitely. I imagine she'll probably be opening up a cafe of some sort, then perhaps the cafe suddenly becomes very successful...
Interesting idea! It sounds a lot like how you get Union Skills in Persona Q2, actually, though with straight-dialogue instead of mini-battle-map quests that are "special screenings" in Q2. It's definitely a cool idea and could explain the "yes/no" confidant comment. It'd also be kinda funny if it's letting the player getting to witness external supports, which is very Fire-Emblem-y, right as Fire Emblem is copying Persona's homework.
I wouldn't get too hyped for it, but I definitely think its a solid premise with decent odds.
Haru is definitely the party member that has the most to benefit from a third trimester, considering how little we got of her. Even with her probably being not at school because of her being a third year, I am sure a way will be found for her to have more impact.
On another note, my mind got this new idea about those one on one scene's party members have been getting. I was going to save this among other things for after Haru, but the idea has just got me too excited.
Clearly, as was implied in the Ryuji trailer when he was talking to Yusuke, those are the key to getting these team up moves. I was wondering about the circumstances to get them and how far they would go with it when my mind reached an up to 11 conclusion of this mechanic. I don't know about you guys, but it's always been a bummer to me that the party members are always destined to remain single unless the protag sweeps them off their feet. "Doesn't matter if Kanji likes Naoto, that ain't ever going to be acted upon because Naoto is an option for the player." That has always bothered me. Now, I hear that earlier games avert this, but what about the new ones? Seeing people reactions to the Ryuji and Makoto interaction made me realize the full potential of these scenes though. To me, I find it hard to believe that the party members would go through one scene and get a team up move, so I would think these scenes with party members would be like there own mini confidants. The team attack gotten from each of these mini confidants would be like the rewards gotten from normal confidants, so what is there to say that there isn't other similarities between the two? I am hoping the potential for romancing is one of those possible similarities.
Now, I get the feeling that there is holes in this idea and that the way I typed it out might not make the most sense, but that is what happens when you just kinda let your brain vomit out an idea you just had the same day. I would very much like your guys input on this, as that might help either debunk the possibility or help solidify it's potential to happen.
To be blunt, I'm not interested. ATLUS is rarely good at writing romance and trying to write it for all team member combinations will probably end like Fates Supports. I rather have Royal giving us quality friendship interaction, I can always do the shipping myself later.
And I think it's very unlikely, there's nothing that indicates these are longer than one scene per pair or romantic in nature.
