The New Phantom Thief of Persona 5 The Royal - Kasumi Yoshizawa/"Jane"

[amageish]

amageish said that the tarrot seems to be a new version of Death made for P5R. Since death means change, Faith must relate to that in some way.

Actually, it's been found by people who know their tarot better then I do! It's from the Visconti-Sforza tarot deck, a Spanish tarot set from the 15th century. It has no equivalent in a regular deck - this set, while only surviving in fragments, apparently has a bunch of unnumbered cards highlighting virtues, one of which is Faith.

Also hi. I don't know how I haven't posted in this thread before, but hi.

 

[EarlTamm]

Actually, it's been found by people who know their tarot better then I do! It's from the Visconti-Sforza tarot deck, a Spanish tarot set from the 15th century. It has no equivalent in a regular deck - this set, while only surviving in fragments, apparently has a bunch of unnumbered cards highlighting virtues, one of which is Faith.

Also hi. I don't know how I haven't posted in this thread before, but hi.

Well that's a twist. If I recall correct, the Consultant card is also Spanish in origin. And if this deck is about virtues, I wonder how much faith plays into Kasumi's character. The fact that she has bless skills might play into this as well.

 

[amageish]

Well that's a twist. If I recall correct, the Consultant card is also Spanish in origin. And if this deck is about virtues, I wonder how much faith plays into Kasumi's character. The fact that she has bless skills might play into this as well.

Yeah, that's true. France and Spain are neighbours though, so it makes some sense to go from one to the other. This is a French card from Spain, so we're really embracing cultural exchange here.

And definitely. Her use of bless skills seems fitting for this. It'll be interesting to see if any other characters have virtue-based arcana. Plus, that could make a cool set of new persona to summon, as the broad notion of faith is, well, broad.

Also, with regards to Smash inclusion: befriending Kasumi is apparently what unlocks Joker's grappling hook attacks, so that ties another part of his moveset to her.

 

[Gentlepanda]

bless was expected after her persona's reveal, but it does make me wonder about the moves' potential smash function

is there any precedent for bless dealing damage over time (like how Joker's curse DOT is a reference to its functionality in older games)?

 

[amageish]

bless was expected after her persona's reveal, but it does make me wonder about the moves' potential smash function

is there any precedent for bless dealing damage over time (like how Joker's curse DOT is a reference to its functionality in older games)?

Uhhhhhhh... Not really? Bless moves are almost always healing and light moves are almost always instant-kill moves. P2 did have a couple of light moves cause status effects, but... like... it would be a stretch. A stretch they'd probably be willing to do, given all the other reasons to think she'll be an echo, but it would be a stretch.

 

[Gentlepanda]

Uhhhhhhh... Not really? Bless moves are almost always healing and light moves are almost always instant-kill moves. P2 did have a couple of light moves cause status effects, but... like... it would be a stretch. A stretch they'd probably be willing to do, given all the other reasons to think she'll be an echo, but it would be a stretch.

sort of wonder if her side-special would be like eiha but instead dealing all the damage at once (maybe also launching further, but that would turn it into an overly-potent long range kill move)

 

[Izanagi97]

sort of wonder if her side-special would be like eiha but instead dealing all the damage at once (maybe also launching further, but that would turn it into an overly-potent long range kill move)

So basically Kouha will do 11% (13.2% in 1v1) and Kougaon will do 17% (20.4% in 1v1) if not a bit less than that?

 

[Gentlepanda]

So basically Kouha will do 11% (13.2% in 1v1) and Kougaon will do 17% (20.4% in 1v1) if not a bit less than that?

i'd probably lessen the power to around 9%/14.2% respectively to compensate, given that arcfire does 14.4%

 

[EarlTamm]

Yeah, that's true. France and Spain are neighbours though, so it makes some sense to go from one to the other. This is a French card from Spain, so we're really embracing cultural exchange here.

And definitely. Her use of bless skills seems fitting for this. It'll be interesting to see if any other characters have virtue-based arcana. Plus, that could make a cool set of new persona to summon, as the broad notion of faith is, well, broad.

Also, with regards to Smash inclusion: befriending Kasumi is apparently what unlocks Joker's grappling hook attacks, so that ties another part of his moveset to her.

I guess one thing about this that surprises me is that her Persona is still very French if I recall correctly.

Are you thinking they might include some of the other ideal tarrot cards in some way?

If anything, that for sure solidifies that Sakurai knew about Royal. I didn't even know the grappling hook had a attack.

Do you guys think her Persona's more physical nature would effect her Smash interpretation?

 

[Gentlepanda]

I guess one thing about this that surprises me is that her Persona is still very French if I recall correctly.

Are you thinking they might include some of the other ideal tarrot cards in some way?

If anything, that for sure solidifies that Sakurai knew about Royal. I didn't even know the grappling hook had a attack.

Do you guys think her Persona's more physical nature would effect her Smash interpretation?

her persona's physical focus arguably suits the smash moveset more than arsene, who gets cleave and nothing else but is throwing out kicks left and right in smash

interestingly, the tarot is also inverse (black border; inverted faith tarot being essentially "stop trusting your gut/believing in others and look at things rationally/think for yourself") and only goes up to rank 5, so it's possible at a certain point at the story it transforms into a different tarot (e.g. jester->hunger in P4G) or reverts back to regular faith when she comes to trust the thieves more.

---

also had a thought a while back that if cinderella is a story fundamentally defined by wish fulfilment, then that seems to line up with how the third semester has the thieves' wishes being 'fulfilled' (human morgana, wakaba alive for both sojiro/futaba)

starting to wonder if that's kasumi's doing and is at the point where she undergoes the 'shift' in personality the developers had mentioned

 

[EarlTamm]

her persona's physical focus arguably suits the smash moveset more than arsene, who gets cleave and nothing else but is throwing out kicks left and right in smash

interestingly, the tarot is also inverse (black border; inverted faith tarot being essentially "stop trusting your gut/believing in others and look at things rationally/think for yourself") and only goes up to rank 5, so it's possible at a certain point at the story it transforms into a different tarot (e.g. jester->hunger in P4G) or reverts back to regular faith when she comes to trust the thieves more.

---

also had a thought a while back that if cinderella is a story fundamentally defined by wish fulfilment, then that seems to line up with how the third semester has the thieves' wishes being 'fulfilled' (human morgana, wakaba alive for both sojiro/futaba)

starting to wonder if that's kasumi's doing and is at the point where she undergoes the 'shift' in personality the developers had mentioned

Once again, I am getting some Simon and Richter Déjà vu.

That's a neat detail. If that's the case, I think it's safe to say she isn't secretly evil or something like that, though she could still inadvertently cause issues.

Maybe, but I don't see her being the cause of this.

 

[amageish]

I guess one thing about this that surprises me is that her Persona is still very French if I recall correctly.

Are you thinking they might include some of the other ideal tarrot cards in some way?

If anything, that for sure solidifies that Sakurai knew about Royal. I didn't even know the grappling hook had a attack.

Do you guys think her Persona's more physical nature would effect her Smash interpretation?

Well, her persona is based on a French opera adapted from an Italian story adapted from a Greek story. So, lots of cultural exchange all around!

I don't know... They said something weird like "If I had to say 'yes' or 'no' to if there would be more new confidants, I'd say 'yes,'" so part of me wonders if there will be more parts to confidants? As it would be new confidants without needed more characters. Kasumi's current one also looks like it just goes to rank 5 for some reason, so what if everyone else got a second arcana during the third semester? It'd be unprecedented and kinda weird, but this game already looks to be playing with the formula in never-before-seen ways...

Nobody did. It was revealed alongside her arcana. It allows you to attack shadows in palaces from a distance.

Probably. Main challenge is the wings of rebellion not having an obvious equivalent.

also had a thought a while back that if cinderella is a story fundamentally defined by wish fulfilment, then that seems to line up with how the third semester has the thieves' wishes being 'fulfilled' (human morgana, wakaba alive for both sojiro/futaba)

starting to wonder if that's kasumi's doing and is at the point where she undergoes the 'shift' in personality the developers had mentioned

I thought that for a while, but the English version of the trailer seems to have her saying she "crushed that dream," which makes me wonder if she joins the Thieves to fight off the wish-granter, crushing the dreams of others in the process. It would also explain why she, Joker and Morgana seemed alone for her awakening - they go rogue to stop the wish-granter while everyone else is willing to accept their wishes granted.

 

[Teeb147]

Looks like I didn't see some posts here or in the joker thread. What'd I miss? New info?

 

[EarlTamm]

Well, her persona is based on a French opera adapted from an Italian story adapted from a Greek story. So, lots of cultural exchange all around!

I don't know... They said something weird like "If I had to say 'yes' or 'no' to if there would be more new confidants, I'd say 'yes,'" so part of me wonders if there will be more parts to confidants? As it would be new confidants without needed more characters. Kasumi's current one also looks like it just goes to rank 5 for some reason, so what if everyone else got a second arcana during the third semester? It'd be unprecedented and kinda weird, but this game already looks to be playing with the formula in never-before-seen ways...

Nobody did. It was revealed alongside her arcana. It allows you to attack shadows in palaces from a distance.

Probably. Main challenge is the wings of rebellion not having an obvious equivalent.



I thought that for a while, but the English version of the trailer seems to have her saying she "crushed that dream," which makes me wonder if she joins the Thieves to fight off the wish-granter, crushing the dreams of others in the process. It would also explain why she, Joker and Morgana seemed alone for her awakening - they go rogue to stop the wish-granter while everyone else is willing to accept their wishes granted.

Okay then. I still get a feeling the Fench adaptation was chosen for a reason.

In P4 the party members got tird tier Personas, so perhaps this is a more involved and lengthy version of that?

Okay then. Sounds a bit like the Smash move, though I imagine the area it can hit is much more generous.

I imagine Wings of Rebellion will have no appearance in P5R and just be a Smash original. If I recall though, that phrase was said in game.

That would make sense, though I find it interesting that Morgana is also helping when we know his wish has been granted. Considering how much he wanted to be human, the fact that he could seemingly give it up and realize the potential bad in it before we even get Kasumi is quite admirable.

 

[amageish]

Okay then. I still get a feeling the Feench adaptation was chosen for a reason.

In P4 the party members got tird tier Personas, so perhaps this is a more involved and lengthy version of that?

Okay then. Sounds a bit like the Smash move, though I imagine the area it can hit is much more generous.

I imagine Wings of Rebellion will have no appearance in P5R and just be a Smash original. If I recall though, that phrase was said in game.

That would make sense, though I find it interesting that Morgana is also helping when we know his wish has been granted. Considering how much he wanted to be human, the fact that he could seemingly give it up and realize the potential bad in it before we even get Kasumi is quite admirable.

Oh, definitely. It is a weirdly specific adaptation.

True! I could definitely see that. It is being done by the P4G director too.

Oh, yes, definitely - and, yeah, it's part of the poem that appears when starting confidants. I just meant that Kasumi would not have an obvious equivalent to the move, as her persona lacks wings.

Yeah, I agree. Morgana definitely grew up a lot in the story, but that would be an entire another level. Really hoping its the case...

 

[Gentlepanda]

full cendrillon artwork revealed - really highlights the similarities to arsene, especially with the bladed feet and frilled upper legs

 

[EarlTamm]

full cendrillon artwork revealed - really highlights the similarities to arsene, especially with the bladed feet and frilled upper legs

View attachment 228610 View attachment 228611

Yeah, there is some notable similarities. Similar body shape, the leg stuff you mentioned, having something attached to the back, something notable in the chest and having headwear. Factor in the fact that red and blue are commonly paired and the influence is there.

 

[Gentlepanda]

Yeah, there is some notable similarities. Similar body shape, the leg stuff you mentioned, having something attached to the back, something notable in the chest and having headwear. Factor in the fact that red and blue are commonly paired and the influence is there.

the proportions are also exactly the same - with her arms down, cendrillon's hands would reach the same point on the legs as arsene

basically if she's not an echo at this point, atlus came really, really damn close with it

 

[EarlTamm]

the proportions are also exactly the same - with her arms down, cendrillon's hands would reach the same point on the legs as arsene

basically if she's not an echo at this point, atlus came really, really damn close with it

Yeah, these similarities and coincidences are starting to get way too common. It almost feels like the Persona was made with echoes in mind at this point. I doubt it, considering the game making process and when Joker in Smash was probably planned, but you get what I mean.

All we need now is a proper vehicle for echo DLC(Or heck, the conformation of DLC beyond the fighter pass).

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Yeah, these similarities and coincidences are starting to get way too common. It almost feels like the Persona was made with echoes in mind at this point. I doubt it, considering the game making process and when Joker in Smash was probably planned, but you get what I mean.

All we need now is a proper vehicle for echo DLC(Or heck, the conformation of DLC beyond the fighter pass).

I severely doubt she'd get in the pass at this point, as it stands, even if Atlus figured out a way to fit in a "Nintendo appearance" quota to justify it. And it doesn't look like we're getting standalone DLC until further notice. So it really comes down to the WOL slots datamine amounting to something.

Also, most people outside the thread right now assume that the next two DLC slots will be the last we're getting and that's it, I can't tell you how often this makes me want to facepalm.

 

[Gentlepanda]

I severely doubt she'd get in the pass at this point, as it stands, even if Atlus figured out a way to fit in a "Nintendo appearance" quota to justify it. And it doesn't look like we're getting standalone DLC until further notice. So it really comes down to the WOL slots datamine amounting to something.

Also, most people outside the thread right now assume that the next two DLC slots will be the last we're getting and that's it, I can't tell you how often this makes me want to facepalm.

i mean we're talking about a character who has actual basis in the game files here

if her model data hadn't been found in 2.0.0 i don't think there'd be much of a conversation at all

 

[EarlTamm]

i mean we're talking about a character who has actual basis in the game files here

if her model data hadn't been found in 2.0.0 i don't think there'd be much of a conversation at all

I doubt this thread would have even been made pre P5R release. Good thing those files are pretty solid clues.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

i mean we're talking about a character who has actual basis in the game files here

if her model data hadn't been found in 2.0.0 i don't think there'd be much of a conversation at all

I do wonder what Sakurai's stance on scrapped alts is, given that this game has palette limitations. It's been said that no character has been added or removed, but do character alts fit into this? For all we know we could be looking at a Forbidden Seven situation.

Honestly, I still can't put much stock into this, I'm sorry. The closer we get to P5R's release, the less chance there is to have Kasumi be included in time.

 

[EarlTamm]

I do wonder what Sakurai's stance on scrapped alts is, given that this game has palette limitations. It's been said that no character has been added or removed, but do character alts fit into this? For all we know we could be looking at a Forbidden Seven situation.

Honestly, I still can't put much stock into this, I'm sorry. The closer we get to P5R's release, the less chance there is to have Kasumi be included in time.

What can you not put stock in, the idea that Kasumi could get in as an echo or the idea that she was ever in the game in the first place?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

What can you not put stock in, the idea that Kasumi could get in as an echo or the idea that she was ever in the game in the first place?

The former.

 

[EarlTamm]

The former.

I mean, we are not getting the English release for quite a while, so I don't think time is that much of a worry. That and I can see Atlus parading Kasumi around in future P5 spinoffs, so I don't think Kasumi's marketability in Smash is much of a problem. The fact that Kasumi likely has a finished(Or at least close to) model made for Smash gives some serious credit to her chances.

 

[Gentlepanda]

I do wonder what Sakurai's stance on scrapped alts is, given that this game has palette limitations. It's been said that no character has been added or removed, but do character alts fit into this?

Honestly, I still can't put much stock into this, I'm sorry. The closer we get to P5R's release, the less chance there is to have Kasumi be included in time.

it's an interesting situation all round

on the one hand, we have two out-of-place alts for joker that don't really seem to fit into anything--his purple thief skin and beige uniform--which may have been put together quickly to fill two gaps for a scrapped kasumi alt in the last two costumes (as the datamined files suggested)

on the other hand, kasumi being intended to fill a basic skin/alternate costume slot like bowser jr. or hero makes no sense for several reasons, among many others:

• royal is 6 whole months out from joker's intended smash release date
• she has completely different weapons
• she has different animations for movement, a different all-out attack, and likely different taunts with a different personality expressed
• the model was basically finished and fully-animated before going missing
• she uses bless attacks, not curse (like eiha/eigaon)

coupled with joker using stuff from P5R like the grapple attack/pull confirming sakurai's full knowledge of the royal, it seems much more likely to me that her status as an 'alternate costume' was just them developing her model using joker as a base (like the smash 4 clone trio) before splitting her off and sorting out the differences

i'm also not sure i understand the notion that kasumi is less likely the closer we get to P5R - she already has an english voice and royal's western marketing is kicking off months in advance, which is incredibly unusual for atlus, and indicates that they're taking a much more active approach to its promotion. if she's in, kasumi was most likely already near complete around the time of joker's release - i don't think it's a matter of including her 'on time' so much as it is them waiting to drop her at the most promotionally-sensible time (probably around the time of 6.0.0/the royal's japanese release in november alongside whoever challenger pack 4 is).

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I mean, we are not getting the English release for quite a while, so I don't think time is that much of a worry. That and I can see Atlus parading Kasumi around in future P5 spinoffs, so I don't think Kasumi's marketability in Smash is much of a problem. The fact that Kasumi likely has a finished(Or at least close to) model made for Smash gives some serious credit to her chances.

With any luck, she might show up as DLC for Phantom Strikers by then, I suppose.

it's an interesting situation all round

on the one hand, we have two out-of-place alts for joker that don't really seem to fit into anything--his purple thief skin and beige uniform--which may have been put together quickly to fill two gaps for a scrapped kasumi alt in the last two costumes (as the datamined files suggested)

on the other hand, kasumi being intended to fill a basic skin/alternate costume slot like bowser jr. or hero makes no sense for several reasons, among many others:

• royal is 6 whole months out from joker's intended smash release date
• she has completely different weapons
• she has different animations for movement, a different all-out attack, and likely different taunts with a different personality expressed
• the model was basically finished and fully-animated before going missing
• she uses bless attacks, not curse (like eiha/eigaon)

coupled with joker using stuff from P5R like the grapple attack/pull confirming sakurai's full knowledge of the royal, it seems much more likely to me that her status as an 'alternate costume' was just them developing her model using joker as a base (like the smash 4 clone trio) before splitting her off and sorting out the differences

i'm also not sure i understand the notion that kasumi is less likely the closer we get to P5R - she already has an english voice and royal's western marketing is kicking off months in advance, which is incredibly unusual for atlus, and indicates that they're taking a much more active approach to its promotion. if she's in, kasumi was most likely already near complete around the time of joker's release - i don't think it's a matter of including her 'on time' so much as it is them waiting to drop her at the most promotionally-sensible time (probably around the time of 6.0.0/the royal's japanese release in november alongside whoever challenger pack 4 is).

At least it's a sensible killswitch. If no standalone character is announced alongside Character Number 4, then she's presumably going to be saved for sometime after February, if they reveal plans for further Ultimate DLC at that point in time.

Meanwhile, there's this dubious text leak floating around about a "female fighting game character", if that factors into anything.

 

[Deleted member]

Only time will tell, as it tends to be.

Kasumi isn't really out of the run until Sakurai comes out saying she isn't in, so anything could still happen.

 

[Gentlepanda]

With any luck, she might show up as DLC for Phantom Strikers by then, I suppose.



At least it's a sensible killswitch. If no standalone character is announced alongside Character Number 4, then she's presumably going to be saved for sometime after February, if they reveal plans for further Ultimate DLC.

it'll also be interesting to see when royal releases in the west. the voice actors already being in and recording lines is incredibly promising for an early 2020 release (jan-march), so i think they could also feasibly pull a launch alongside challenger pack 5 in the vein of corrin - japan has been familiar with the character for a month or two whereas the west only has a month or two to wait until they can 'get to know' the character (as sakurai also put it with corrin)

i don't see them breaking the feburary end-point to release her, so if challenger pack 5 rolls around and it's a wrap for DLC i'll take what we have without much complaint, though i do think any point between 6.0-7.0 is fair game for kasumi and makes promotional sense for atlus (i'd give 6.0/november more of a chance because of how japan-centric atlus is, but they might also want to wait a little bit for royal to come out and for japan to get familiar with her).

 

[Peripuff]

Meanwhile, there's this dubious text leak floating around about a "female fighting game character", if that factors into anything.

I hadn't even considered that that could be Kasumi. Do you think she resembles a fighting game character?

 

[Gentlepanda]

I hadn't even considered that that could be Kasumi. Do you think she resembles a fighting game character?

the protagonist of koei's fighting game series Dead or Alive is also called kasumi

it'd be funny if the leaker heard the name 'kasumi' being in and thought 'oh of course, they must mean kasumi from dead or alive'

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I hadn't even considered that that could be Kasumi. Do you think she resembles a fighting game character?

She has the same name as a female fighting game character, Kasumi from Dead or Alive, but I doubt that alone could have caused the correlation

(Ps. Sign me up for support)

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

the protagonist of koei's fighting game series Dead or Alive is also called kasumi

it'd be funny if the leaker heard the name 'kasumi' being in and thought 'oh of course, they must mean kasumi from dead or alive'

Yeah, except that the leaker claims that he doesn't know who the character he's leaking is. Would still have been funny.

 

[Peripuff]

the protagonist of koei's fighting game series Dead or Alive is also called kasumi

it'd be funny if the leaker heard the name 'kasumi' being in and thought 'oh of course, they must mean kasumi from dead or alive'

Hey, anything to help her case would make me happy

 

[EarlTamm]

You know, I wonder how Kasumi speculation will change when people actually get their hands on the game.

 

[Gentlepanda]

You know, I wonder how Kasumi speculation will change when people actually get their hands on the game.

i think a lot of people sort of dismissed all the jane stuff once joker came out and she was nowhere to be seen (despite that kasumi being a joker skin alone was highly unlikely in retrospect), so it's sort of gone off most radars

it'll probably remain pretty subdued unless/until she comes out, barring a trusted leaker mentioning her (which i find unlikely as atlus is running a tight ship)

 

[EarlTamm]

i think a lot of people sort of dismissed all the jane stuff once joker came out and she was nowhere to be seen (despite that kasumi being a joker skin alone was highly unlikely in retrospect), so it's sort of gone off most radars

it'll probably remain pretty subdued unless/until she comes out, barring a trusted leaker mentioning her (which i find unlikely as atlus is running a tight ship)

Yeah, I get the feeling that anyone who would now return to the subject would likely support due to the evidence that we have found, but there has been no real trigger for Kasumi to be noticed by the community. A leaker would be our best bet at a trigger, but I agree that it is not likely. They didn't even get Joker after all.

I imagine that if Kasumi were to ever get into the RTC as she is seen now, it would be an absolute slaughter.

 

[Gentlepanda]

Yeah, I get the feeling that anyone who would now return to the subject would likely support due to the evidencethat we have found

even then, it's still a little rocky - evidence aside, it hangs on the assumption that we're getting more than sakurai promised (even if only an echo), which as a general assumption rarely pans out

i think it's hard to sway people beyond "well her model was in smash and it was nearly finished, so it seems unlikely it was cut entirely", so unless she pans out it's a hard sell to most

 

[Teeb147]

A lot of people hang on to what's thought or said around, and just because the fighter's pass seemed clear cut, people might not believe it can come, but sakurai's done unexpected things plenty of times. And an echo isn't that farfetched.

But of course, it's not expected by most. Doesn't mean it can't happen. anyway.