The New Phantom Thief of Persona 5 The Royal - Kasumi Yoshizawa/"Jane"

[Rie Sonomura]

You guys suppose that Kasumi will be revealed for Smash in full once her Phantom Thieves codename is finally revealed?

One thing is for sure: it's not Countess as per the Hero/Edelgard/Phoenix/Baboom leak, as that one lacked Banjo

 

[EarlTamm]

You guys suppose that Kasumi will be revealed for Smash in full once her Phantom Thieves codename is finally revealed?

One thing is for sure: it's not Countess as per the Hero/Edelgard/Phoenix/Baboom leak, as that one lacked Banjo

I think it will be reveled after her codename is revealed, but not when it is revealed. I do wonder what it could be though, especially if it holds another connection to Joker. What do you guys think it will be?

 

[Gentlepanda]

I think it will be reveled after her codename is revealed, but not when it is revealed. I do wonder what it could be though, especially if it holds another connection to Joker. What do you guys think it will be?

thief codenames rarely relate to their personas, but i wonder if the cinderella angle could lead to something like Princess or even just straight up Royal

 

[EarlTamm]

thief codenames rarely relate to their personas, but i wonder if the cinderella angle could lead to something like Princess or even just straight up Royal

It would feel kinda weird to me, as we already have something similar nickname wise in Queen. I think they might go for something to highlight the more athletic side of her. Dancer would be the obvious one.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

How about Fairy? Like the Fairy Godmother?

 

[EarlTamm]

How about Fairy? Like the Fairy Godmother?

I don't know about that, but you bringing up the Fairy Godmother just got my brain turning its gears.

 

[Gentlepanda]

I don't know about that, but you bringing up the Fairy Godmother just got my brain turning its gears.

>tfw kasumi's ultimate persona is the fairy godmother
>tfw the fairy godmother is about wishes/dreams
>tfw the third semester of royal seems to be about the thieves (perhaps falsely) getting what they wish for the most--human morgana, wakaba, etc.
>tfw it all starts to add up

 

[Peripuff]

I think I like the name 'Swan'. Kasumi's last name is the same as that of the creator of Origami, and swans are common origami creations. It would also fit into her being a graceful dancer type character.

If she were to get into the game, do you think they would refer to her by her codename like Joker or just 'Kasumi'?

 

[amageish]

I think I like the name 'Swan'. Kasumi's last name is the same as that of the creator of Origami, and swans are common origami creations. It would also fit into her being a graceful dancer type character.

If she were to get into the game, do you think they would refer to her by her codename like Joker or just 'Kasumi'?

If they called Joker Joker and didn't call Kasumi by her code name, I may explode due to inconsistency.

 

[Peripuff]

If they called Joker Joker and didn't call Kasumi by her code name, I may explode due to inconsistency.

I would’ve assumed they would use her code name but the Phantom Thieves’ spirits all use their real names, so I honestly have no idea

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I would’ve assumed they would use her code name but the Phantom Thieves’ spirits all use their real names, so I honestly have no idea

to be fair that's cause the spirits are of their civilian selves

 

[Peripuff]

to be fair that's cause the spirits are of their civilian selves

That is true. Perhaps if they give her a student outfit like Joker (which they might not due to a lack of a substitute to a mask like Joker's glasses) they would call those skins 'Kasumi'.

 

[EarlTamm]

That is true. Perhaps if they give her a student outfit like Joker (which they might not due to a lack of a substitute to a mask like Joker's glasses) they would call those skins 'Kasumi'.

I imagine they would still call those alts her codename like Joker, if she has them. Like you said, there is no mask substitute, but there is also the possibility proposed by Gentlepanda that those alts were made because of Kasumi's early development related to Joker. Really, the only big justification for uniform alt right now is that Joker had it.

 

[Peripuff]

I imagine they would still call those alts her codename like Joker, if she has them. Like you said, there is no mask substitute, but there is also the possibility proposed by Gentlepanda that those alts were made because of Kasumi's early development related to Joker. Really, the only big justification for uniform alt right now is that Joker had it.

Oh, that's an interesting idea. I honestly doubt they would do that just because Joker has his own school alts. But I do wonder how they would handle it if they did.

 

[amageish]

That is true. Perhaps if they give her a student outfit like Joker (which they might not due to a lack of a substitute to a mask like Joker's glasses) they would call those skins 'Kasumi'.

I definitely expected Joker's school uniform costume would have been called Ren before he released. But nope, it's a buncha Jokers...

 

[Gentlepanda]

I imagine they would still call those alts her codename like Joker, if she has them. Like you said, there is no mask substitute, but there is also the possibility proposed by Gentlepanda that those alts were made because of Kasumi's early development related to Joker. Really, the only big justification for uniform alt right now is that Joker had it.

honestly i see two reasons why she'd more than likely have a school alt

1. she encompassed two skin slots (jane1 and jane2), which, if we're assuming she was only attached to joker for development reasons, were likely two different and distinct models without colour variations
2. with regard to marketing, the uniform is her most iconic look - even when all the thieves are in their metaverse outfits on the boxart, she's still wearing it

 

[EarlTamm]

honestly i see two reasons why she'd more than likely have a school alt

1. she encompassed two skin slots (jane1 and jane2), which, if we're assuming she was only attached to joker for development reasons, were likely two different and distinct models without colour variations
2. with regard to marketing, the uniform is her most iconic look - even when all the thieves are in their metaverse outfits on the boxart, she's still wearing it

View attachment 228677

Yeah, I won't lie, her uniform look is just as synonymous with her as her Phantom Thief attire. The question of the day, however, is how they would get around the mask issue. It's a detail that I doubt Sakurai would ignore, as he is all about those small details.

 

[Peripuff]

Yeah, I won't lie, her uniform look is just as synonymous with her as her Phantom Thief attire. The question of the day, however, is how they would get around the mask issue. It's a detail that I doubt Sakurai would ignore, as he is all about those small details.

Maybe she has some sort of headwear or something that we just don't know about yet

 

[EarlTamm]

Maybe she has some sort of headwear or something that we just don't know about yet

Unless she is wearing contact lenses, her school look has no such headwear. I guess she has her bow, but that is not on her face, which is what we should be looking for.

Edit:
I have been thinking lately, if Joker could get an echo, what are the chances that another fighter pass character could get an echo? I doubt the Hero would get one considering the whole 4 heroes thing and Banjo doesn't really have anyone who would fit an echo.

 

[amageish]

Unless she is wearing contact lenses, her school look has no such headwear. I guess she has her bow, but that is not on her face, which is what we should be looking for.

Edit:
I have been thinking lately, if Joker could get an echo, what are the chances that another fighter pass character could get an echo? I doubt the Hero would get one considering the whole 4 heroes thing and Banjo doesn't really have anyone who would fit an echo.

Uhhhh. Time to go Persona 4 Arena style and give everyone glasses?

And I think it depends on the character... Joker does have the advantage of being first out the gate, so it wouldn't feel too soon. But they definitely could do it for more characters...

 

[Peripuff]

Unless she is wearing contact lenses, her school look has no such headwear. I guess she has her bow, but that is not on her face, which is what we should be looking for.

Edit:
I have been thinking lately, if Joker could get an echo, what are the chances that another fighter pass character could get an echo? I doubt the Hero would get one considering the whole 4 heroes thing and Banjo doesn't really have anyone who would fit an echo.

I meant in the sense of her potentially having some sort of headwear that could be added onto her school outfit that we don't know about yet. Kichijoji appears to have a clothing store so that could potentially be represented through her school outfit.

As for the other fighter pass characters, I agree with you that Hero and Banjo likely would not get one, I guess it depends on who the last two are. If we get Phoenix for example I can imagine someone like Apollo or Edgeworth being his echo, but as it stands, Joker is the only fighter pass candidate for an echo. However, I don't know if we would have reached that conclusion if not for the Jane leaks anyway, so I guess it really is up to Sakurai.

Uhhhh. Time to go Persona 4 Arena style and give everyone glasses?

To be fair, the Persona 4 characters have a story reason to be wearing glasses. The Persona 3 characters that were in that game did not have glasses after all.

 

[amageish]

To be fair, the Persona 4 characters have a story reason to be wearing glasses. The Persona 3 characters that were in that game did not have glasses after all.

No, they did. I don't recall if it was the default, but every character had glasses or a variant (ex/ eyepatch, swimming googles, etc.).

 

[Gentlepanda]

No, they did. I don't recall if it was the default, but every character had glasses or a variant (ex/ eyepatch, swimming googles, etc.).

they had glasses, but that was more just a fun little cosmetic bonus you could add than anything meaningful related to summoning personas, since the p3 characters still did that with their evokers

in any case, glasses/etc. aren't used in p5 beyond smash uniform joker anyway, so i feel like sakurai tying the glasses to his thief mask was also more just a fun little detail than an essential one, and not something that really needs to be translated in full to kasumi - either she does something weird like the ribbon or her portrait just remains the same during cendrillon's active period.

 

[EarlTamm]

I meant in the sense of her potentially having some sort of headwear that could be added onto her school outfit that we don't know about yet. Kichijoji appears to have a clothing store so that could potentially be represented through her school outfit.

As for the other fighter pass characters, I agree with you that Hero and Banjo likely would not get one, I guess it depends on who the last two are. If we get Phoenix for example I can imagine someone like Apollo or Edgeworth being his echo, but as it stands, Joker is the only fighter pass candidate for an echo. However, I don't know if we would have reached that conclusion if not for the Jane leaks anyway, so I guess it really is up to Sakurai.

To be fair, the Persona 4 characters have a story reason to be wearing glasses. The Persona 3 characters that were in that game did not have glasses after all.

Phoenix echos are certainly possible. On my end, I could see a multitude of Resident Evil characters that could have echos, as well as Doomguy having a possible echo in the Maurauder from Doom Eternal(Which now that I think about it, has a lot of similarities to Kasumi in its nature as a possible newcomer). I just think that it would be a bit odd if only one DLC character got an echo, even if Joker was the first.

they had glasses, but that was more just a fun little cosmetic bonus you could add than anything meaningful related to summoning personas, since the p3 characters still did that with their evokers

in any case, glasses/etc. aren't used in p5 beyond smash uniform joker anyway, so i feel like sakurai tying the glasses to his thief mask was also more just a fun little detail than an essential one, and not something that really needs to be translated in full to kasumi - either she does something weird like the ribbon or her portrait just remains the same during cendrillon's active period.

I just imagined that there would be a lot of Doctor Who memes if it was her bow tie that was removed, but I generally agree with this.

 

[amageish]

they had glasses, but that was more just a fun little cosmetic bonus you could add than anything meaningful related to summoning personas, since the p3 characters still did that with their evokers

in any case, glasses/etc. aren't used in p5 beyond smash uniform joker anyway, so i feel like sakurai tying the glasses to his thief mask was also more just a fun little detail than an essential one, and not something that really needs to be translated in full to kasumi - either she does something weird like the ribbon or her portrait just remains the same during cendrillon's active period.

That is fair. It also makes me wonder if every character in Persona 5 Arena will have phantom thief outfits to reflect how the metaverse now works... Or maybe everyone will have glasses and it'll just be the P4 metaverse. Or they'll put it in a pocket dimension a la Q/Q2...

I'd be fine if her portrait remained the same personally. It would just be two skins of a DLC echo fighter; I don't know if we need every minor detail to match the canon...

 

[Gentlepanda]

man i didn't even realise this at the time but p5 royal didn't just get a shadowdropped e3 trailer, it got an entire e3 booth that took up a sizable chunk of sega's area

atlus is marketing this game's western release early and marketing it hard

 

[EarlTamm]

man i didn't even realise this at the time but p5 royal didn't just get a shadowdropped e3 trailer, it got an entire e3 booth that took up a sizable chunk of sega's area

View attachment 228945

atlus is marketing this game's western release early and marketing it hard

And Kasumi seems pretty prevalent in the booth. In this photo I can see a pic of her on the right and a full body image of her on the left.

 

[amageish]

And Kasumi seems pretty prevalent in the booth. In this photo I can see a pic of her on the right and a full body image of her on the left.

The left one is just the trailer playing, but yeah. She's definitely the poster character of this game.

 

[EarlTamm]

The left one is just the trailer playing, but yeah. She's definitely the poster character of this game.

No, there is a sort of cardboard cutout(It's attached to the booth, but that's the best way for me to describe it) of her in her Phantom Thief attire. You can see it to the left of the two people wearing pink headphones.

 

[Gentlepanda]

helpless e3 employee never sees it coming, c. 2019

 

[EarlTamm]

You know, it's been a while since we talked about how Kasumi could overall differentiate from Joker. Now that we know her Persona and her role in getting the grappling hook attack, perhaps we have some new ideas?

 

[Gentlepanda]

You know, it's been a while since we talked about how Kasumi could overall differentiate from Joker. Now that we know her Persona and her role in getting the grappling hook attack, perhaps we have some new ideas?

i'm still big on the 'lucina joker' concept, i.e. a more consistent version of joker that deals more damage on her own but receives a much smaller power boost from her persona to compensate - reason being that, as far as i see it, her longer sword and rifle imply an inherent power/range upgrade from joker's dagger and pistol, so cendrillon would need her power reduced in turn to maintain an overall balance between joker/kasumi.

as it stands, there's not much else that needs changing. i previously considered joker's up-tilt to be incompatible with a longer sword, but she does the exact same spinning trick in her character trailer (right at the start in the casino cutscene), so that's not a problem. joker's physical attacks are all kick-based, which--as if by magic--is kasumi's entire thing as well. as for the recovery problem, just as arsene's up-B attaches his wings to joker, cendrillon's can attach her cape to kasumi.

the only thing i'm really curious about is the implementation of kouha/kougaon over eiha/eigaon, both in function and animation. eiha/eigaon's animations from P5 are captured almost perfectly in smash and translate easily to an arcfire-type ground projectile, but kouha/kougaon take the form of holy spikes surrounding the target in the air, so a 1:1 conversion wouldn't be visually (or mechanically) the same. unlike curse moves, bless moves also have no precedent for slowly draining HP, so it's a bit of a mystery what kouha/kougaon would do besides maybe instant but lesser damage (in keeping with the whole 'simple/lucina joker' thing that allows for more straightforward plays).

 

[EarlTamm]

i'm still big on the 'lucina joker' concept, i.e. a more consistent version of joker that deals more damage on her own but receives a much smaller power boost from her persona to compensate - reason being that, as far as i see it, her longer sword and rifle imply an inherent power/range upgrade from joker's dagger and pistol, so cendrillon would need her power reduced in turn to maintain an overall balance between joker/kasumi.

as it stands, there's not much else that needs changing. i previously considered joker's up-tilt to be incompatible with a longer sword, but she does the exact same spinning trick in her character trailer (right at the start in the casino cutscene), so that's not a problem. joker's physical attacks are all kick-based, which--as if by magic--is kasumi's entire thing as well. as for the recovery problem, just as arsene's up-B attaches his wings to joker, cendrillon's can attach her cape to kasumi.

the only thing i'm really curious about is the implementation of kouha/kougaon over eiha/eigaon, both in function and animation. eiha/eigaon's animations from P5 are captured almost perfectly in smash and translate easily to an arcfire-type ground projectile, but kouha/kougaon take the form of holy spikes surrounding the target in the air, so a 1:1 conversion wouldn't be visually (or mechanically) the same. unlike curse moves, bless moves also have no precedent for slowly draining HP, so it's a bit of a mystery what kouha/kougaon would do besides maybe instant but lesser damage (in keeping with the whole 'simple/lucina joker' thing that allows for more straightforward plays).

That would make the most sense. More range and consistancy, but the boost isn't as noticable. As for her bless situation, I am getting some PK Fire vibes from this situation.

 

[amageish]

No, there is a sort of cardboard cutout(It's attached to the booth, but that's the best way for me to describe it) of her in her Phantom Thief attire. You can see it to the left of the two people wearing pink headphones.

Sorry, I meant the one on the right. Fun fact about me: I am basically incapable of getting my left/right correct...

as it stands, there's not much else that needs changing. i previously considered joker's up-tilt to be incompatible with a longer sword, but she does the exact same spinning trick in her character trailer (right at the start in the casino cutscene), so that's not a problem. joker's physical attacks are all kick-based, which--as if by magic--is kasumi's entire thing as well. as for the recovery problem, just as arsene's up-B attaches his wings to joker, cendrillon's can attach her cape to kasumi..

While cape-flying could work, I feel like nerfing Kasumi's persona recovery from Joker's would aid in your idea of a more-consistent Joker variant...

That said, I really like your idea overall. Good simple way to make her stand out.

 

[Gentlepanda]

Sorry, I meant the one on the right. Fun fact about me: I am basically incapable of getting my left/right correct...

from the footage i've seen, those pictures on the right are actually just still frames taken from the trailer (though it's sort of a moot detail regardless since kasumi is clearly being pushed as the main icon no matter what)

While cape-flying could work, I feel like nerfing Kasumi's persona recovery from Joker's would aid in your idea of a more-consistent Joker variant.

honestly, the cape itself could probably suffice as a weaker recovery - more a gentle float upwards than arsene's powerful soar

if you wanted to take the idea of balanced joker to its extreme, you could even have her side-b be fixed to kouga (medium damage) over kouha and kougaon. something interesting i noticed a while back is that when comparing eiha and eigaon, there's a very noticeable gap inbetween the two, as if accommodating for a missing medium-range spell.

 

[Peripuff]

What if Kasumi scrapped the Rebel’s Gauge mechanic entirely and just had Cendrillon at all times, being the middle ground between Arsene and non-Arsene Joker. This could also rectify the lack of glasses or anything like that in Kasumi’s school outfit, since they would be taken off all the time anyway

 

[EarlTamm]

Sorry, I meant the one on the right. Fun fact about me: I am basically incapable of getting my left/right correct...



While cape-flying could work, I feel like nerfing Kasumi's persona recovery from Joker's would aid in your idea of a more-consistent Joker variant...

That said, I really like your idea overall. Good simple way to make her stand out.

I was unable to do that for a good while as well, so I can relate. Weirdly enough, the main way I now remember my left and right is from a late game rolling level in Super Mario Galaxy 2 where they made a bad right way pun.

What if Kasumi scrapped the Rebel’s Gauge mechanic entirely and just had Cendrillon at all times, being the middle ground between Arsene and non-Arsene Joker. This could also rectify the lack of glasses or anything like that in Kasumi’s school outfit, since they would be taken off all the time anyway

Eh, I feel like that would cause things to be a bit too crowded for most people's liking. The change should still be there, as it is the big Persona related gimmick, just not as crazy a pwer up. It does make me wonder if Kasumi's gaurd gauge would fill up at a diffrent rate, considering the power difference.

 

[Izanagi97]

Best way I can see the Bless skills implemented is if the hit does more damage but doesn't have the DoT (I'd say the damage could probably be 25% less than the full damage of the DoT: 8.25%/9.9% for Kouha and 12.75%/15.3% for Kougaon). Either that or going with the idea that she would just get Kouga and the damage it would deal would be between the full damage of Eiha and the full damage of Eigaon (14%/16.8%) thought I don't know if it would have a DoT or if it would do the full damage on hit without the DoT.

 

[EarlTamm]

You know, I imagine her FS will be a bit different. I am sure it will still be All Out Attack, but the way she hits you with it and the partners she will have may differ. The way Joker swipes in his doesn't feel like the right attack method for a rapier, and I think her team may differ due to the strange team situation she has when we see her awakening her Persona. With her also likely lacking the Phantom Thieves commenting on her like Joker(That feels kinda Joker exclusive due to his status as a silent-ish protag), that is more reason for her All Out Attack to differ in team comp.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

You know, I imagine her FS will be a bit different. I am sure it will still be All Out Attack, but the way she hits you with it and the partners she has may differ. The way Joker swipes for his doesn't feel like the right attack for a rapier, and I think her team may differ due to the strange team situation she has when we see her awakening her Persona. With her also likely lacking the Phantom Thieves commenting on her like Joker(That feels kinda Joker exclusive due to his status as a silent-ish protag), that is more reason for her All Out Attack to differ.

maybe they'll have

Spoiler

Crow/Goro as a potential partner? Since in P5R he too becomes a permanent member