The New Match-up Chart

[Blade689]

nope. Jiggy can get around links projectiles pretty easily. I would say that6 jiggs=link.

 

[zeldasmash]

what about Ness?

 

[asianaussie]

Jiggs > Link on Dreamland, Link > Jiggs on Hyrule, but the > is so small it's almost = anyway

 

[th3kuzinator]

I would say Link = Jiggs on Hyrule.

Although this particular matchup really depends on the playstyle of the link.

A patient link certainly has the upperhand, because he has the room to space correctly.

 

[asianaussie]

pfft

A good Link with good projectile control won't even let Jiggs get close safely. She does have easy 0-deaths, but a patient Link can easily outcamp Jiggs, especially since he has two good projectiles.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Which is why I said Link has the upperhand.

 

[Frogles]

hooray we all agree anyways kirby > ness seriously? should be kirby >> ness. thats a terrible matchup.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Depends how beastly the ness can fair chain.

But yeah kirby >> ness definitely.

 

[DMoogle]

F-air chains are no prob if you know how to DI properly.

Kirby >> Ness for sure.

 

[ballin4life]

Fair chains aren't that good even if you don't know how to DI.

I'd also say that Kirby is a worse matchup for Link than Fox is.

 

[ciaza]

I dunno. Link can spam the crap out of a kirby with projectiles whereas a fox can deflect them. Playing a campy link as kirby especially on hyrule is a pain.

 

[th3kuzinator]

As a link I would definitely rather play kirby than fox.

Fox just seems to shut me down for all the right reasons.

 

[DMoogle]

Playing a good link as kirby especially on hyrule is a pain.

FYP, IMO. If you're playing someone who's definitely better than you (even if not that much), you're likely to have trouble with Kirby vs. Link. It's kind of a weird scale... Kirby will dominate (or crush) when the skill levels of the players are similar or weighted towards the Kirby player, but if the Link player is a better player, then it can be a toughish match-up for Kirby.

It's just one of those match-ups.

 

[The Star King]

I'd also say that Kirby is a worse matchup for Link than Fox is.

Fox completely shuts down Link's most prominent aspect, his projectile game, with his lasers + shine combination. His lasers give Link hell due to Link's poor mobility, and the fact that Link can't use projectiles to create openings makes approaching that much more difficult. On Dreamland, where Link can't be camped as badly as Hyrule, Link still suffers because of his poor recovery, and Fox outclassing him in direct combat (much better speed and combo game). Kirby definitely punishes Link very hard, but can have a tough time approaching since he's not that fast and he doesn't have a good projectile. Kirby shines best when his opponents are forced to attempt to break through his high-priority defenses - Link does not, thanks to his projectiles.

 

[asianaussie]

Everything star king said is valid and I stand by it as a Link main.

I do want to stress that Kirby punishes Link better than any character bar possibly Falcon (assuming the Kirby knows what they're doing).

 

[ballin4life]

Meh, from the perspective of a Fox player I feel like Link can effectively kill Fox more easily than Kirby. I agree that neither is a good matchup for Link, but Link can at least gimp and combo Fox.

Kirby can also air camp to mostly negate Link's projectiles.

I don't think the difference is big enough to give different ratings to the matchup.

I might be a bit mistaken though as to how easily Kirby can get in on Link, because I usually don't pick Kirby against a Link (I don't want to be accused of being cheap hehe).

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

As a link I would definitely rather play kirby than fox.

Fox just seems to shut me down for all the right reasons.

That's what you say, i would rather verse a b-teir fox over a c-teir kirby.

that might sound ********, but noob kirbys are just..so freaking annoying, it unravels all of this anger inside me and i just fdsfdsgfdsgfdsgfdsngldfksa

at least a b-teir fox can be fun atleast, i know fox has the upperhand, but at least i'm not throwing my controller at my computer in rage

 

[Surri-Sama]

I would rather be an S tier kirby then complain about kirbys on SmashBoards

But i agree with fox mauling Link worse then kirby...Fox kills to much of Links game play.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Sorry, it's what i do.
i also complain about nesses too.
i just don't like kirby, or ness, otherwise, could care less.
but i do agree, however, fox kills link's game all together.

lol rhymes.

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

kirby is a pretty good matchup for link actually lol

 

[firo]

Anyone else feel that Ness vs Mario is a pretty even matchup? The more I play against marios the more I feel that this matchup really isn't one-sided.

Any yeah, I would say that Kirby >> Ness as well. That matchup is just terrible.

 

[The Star King]

I would agree, but then again I'm good against Mario in general so I might be biased.

Does anyone else think Fox>Puff, not >>?

 

[dandan]

i personally think that a wise use of fireballs cuts ness's options by a lot (and they were limited to begin with).
approaching with ness is problematic to say the least, but imo approaching mario is even harder.
for some reason i see many marios tend to underestimate utilt, but it works wonders vs ness and totally cuts his djc options.
also, jabs work well on ness, and if you can jab grab, then you usually can set up an easy gimp from there (of course depending on where you are).

i would not say ness = mario, but mario > ness, though not by a large margin.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Mario uair chains juggle ness really well and his fireballs certainly do makes ness' approach very difficult.

Mario also has a pretty good edgeguarding ability so I feel on smaller stages he will put the hurt on ness.

Ness has his dsmash which is excellent vs mario and also can combo pretty will horizontally. On smaller platforms, ness can basically tech chase mario to death.

On larger stages ness can outspace mario and put the hurt on. He also has his reverse djc boost to help his approach.

I still think mario > ness, but it is fairly close

 

[tacos]

Does anyone else think Fox>Puff, not >>?

Well in my opinion I would think that puff>fox
puff can easyly 0 to death combo fox(D-air > U-tilt> sleep)
Fox is also pretty easy to edgaurde that gives puff another advantage to drill him for a kill.
Those are some things that come to my mind right now

 

[th3kuzinator]

Mmm.

Although it is true puff can Z2D fox with a grab, good DI or a small mistake can help fox gets away. Once Fox is at a certain percent, it is much harder to combo/get the kill off except by using a dair -> usmash.

Fox, however, can do massive damage to puff & has a better approach.

A fair->dtilt->dair->few jabs--> Usmash is the easiest combo in the world. The fact that puff dies so early from usmashs, and jabs set up jiggs so nicely makes killing puff a breeze.

If the jiggs can air camp nairs and space some dairs (basically if the puff is ULTRA patient) the matchup could be equal, but normally I would say fox > puff

 

[ballin4life]

If you're going to say Fox can DI jiggs combos, you can't bring up a Fox drill combo two sentences later

 

[th3kuzinator]

Good point.

I still think Fox trumps jiggs tho. Maybe Z2D combos are difficult with good DI, but fox's jab just sets jiggly up so nicely.

 

[ballin4life]

Fox can aerial chain jiggs pretty well.

Jiggs has to air camp to avoid lasers too.

 

[tacos]

Mmm.

Although it is true puff can Z2D fox with a grab, good DI or a small mistake can help fox gets away. Once Fox is at a certain percent, it is much harder to combo/get the kill off except by using a dair -> usmash.

Fox, however, can do massive damage to puff & has a better approach.

A fair->dtilt->dair->few jabs--> Usmash is the easiest combo in the world. The fact that puff dies so early from usmashs, and jabs set up jiggs so nicely makes killing puff a breeze.

If the jiggs can air camp nairs and space some dairs (basically if the puff is ULTRA patient) the matchup could be equal, but normally I would say fox > puff

I am still not convinced that fox has the advantage jiggs. Probably because many fox players I've played , I use jiggs , they can't combo that much against floties which makes them do dumb things(random ex. Fox:u-tilt,u-tilt,u-tilt...etc then does another but jiggles is a little to high to reach the kick and then jiggs: drills to u-tilt to sleep.) So I am still with jiggs> Fox.

 

[Sempiternity]

But that Up-Smash...

 

[th3kuzinator]

Kills at around 50% lol.

Too Good.

I can see what you are saying snake, but play any good fox and you will see how quickly you will die.

 

[tacos]

Kills at around 50% lol.

Too Good.

I can see what you are saying snake, but play any good fox and you will see how quickly you will die.

Only good fox's I can remember are you(which I haven't played in a long time),pureforsure,ybombb,p33c3,knitephox,Zod,sin are some Ive played(didn't use jiggs though)
Gonna start using jiggs against any fox now

Spoiler

just to make my point

 

[th3kuzinator]

Aww shucks, you're making me blush.

Yeah we need to play more asap

 

[t3h Icy]

Umm, am I changing anything or what do you guys want? I don't want to do anything bull-headedly since I kinda ruined the Melee chart, lol.

 

[ciaza]

Hmmm this could be a good chance for the future BRoom to shine. I say we wait until the BRoom is up and running and see how they formulate decisions based on the recent posts.

 

[th3kuzinator]

What ciaza said. The first admissions should be announced soon.

 

[DemonicInfluence]

I would agree, but then again I'm good against Mario in general so I might be biased.

Does anyone else think Fox>Puff, not >>?

I agree with this. And I argued for it awhile back when it was just being started lol.

Don't think fox = jiggly because while foxes may be about equal to jiggly in friendlies (due to fox being impatient), in a tourny match, fox outcamps jiggs hard. Also, lasers gotta be most annoying thing ever

 

[The Star King]

Hmmm this could be a good chance for the future BRoom to shine. I say we wait until the BRoom is up and running and see how they formulate decisions based on the recent posts.

I don't see why we can't discuss it now, when the community has contributed to the Match-up Chart in the past just fine.

Gawd.

 

[ciaza]

I don't see why we can't discuss it now, when the community has contributed to the Match-up Chart in the past just fine.

Gawd.

Nonono I'm all for discussing it here. What I meant was the whole community should discuss the match-ups and then the BRoom should analyse everyone's opinions before making a final decision.

Not they decide everything by themselves.