The New Match-up Chart

[thegreginator]

Kirby = Jiggly
for reasons already stated. and plenty of people agree with that, MattNF isnt the only one. jiggs is one of my mains and always destroys kirbys. and yes there are good kirbys out there ive played

Fox > Ness
>> is just too much here

Luigi > Samus
They are both floaty but Luigi can combo samus while the reverse isnt true.

 

[Lovage]

Of course. But air priority isn't the only thing that matter. Kirby still has problems doing long combos among other things. He dies very quickly against good Jigglys (which I doubt most of you here have played)



So talking in half-***** leet speak like a 12 year old is stronger now?



looks like this topic has become a joke

I don't plan on posting in here anymore lol OH WELL

inb4 "u mad"

uhhh pretty sure u lost all posting credibility when you reply to half of the posts with played out 4chan troll methods (green text, reaction pictures) and the other half with thoughtful responses

 

[Deleted member]

Kirby = Jiggly
for reasons already stated. and plenty of people agree with that, MattNF isnt the only one. jiggs is one of my mains and always destroys kirbys. and yes there are good kirbys out there ive played

Fox > Ness
>> is just too much here

Luigi > Samus
They are both floaty but Luigi can combo samus while the reverse isnt true.

who are good kirbies?

 

[killa k]

The great MATTS!

Spoiler

or Alpha CL

 

[Deleted member]

Alpha and the Chileans are legit

 

[SilentSlayers]

I agree with everything Matt said. No one critically argued his points, they simply repeated an earlier point without properly addressing his. And it's pretty dickish how Icy says "updated" as if Kirby > Jiggly is a fact, when it hasn't even been properly examined yet. Kirby doesn't have the ease to 0% to death as Jiggly does. Get that through your head. Yes, Kirby clearly has some advantages over Jiggly, but consider a good Jiggly being able to do simple rest combos.

 

[asianaussie]

Maybe you should consider a good Kirby spacing and outprioritising the Jiggs. Seriously, if you want to assume the Jiggs has the skill to get past Kirby's priority and hitboxes, you have to assume the Kirby is good at approaching, spacing and can DI out of drills.

 

[Superstar]

jiggly has more aerial agility? LOL

Have you even seen AntD's chart? Jiggs is practically the best in aerial mobility. Last I checked, the only one she loses too in that is Pikachu.

Weight is less is more, rest is fine.

I just wanted to argue this one, it was pretty bad. I know nothing on the Jiggs vs Kirby matchup. Seems perfect wise Kirby will do better, but Jiggs will punish a lot better.

 

[t3h Icy]

I agree with everything Matt said. No one critically argued his points, they simply repeated an earlier point without properly addressing his. And it's pretty dickish how Icy says "updated" as if Kirby > Jiggly is a fact, when it hasn't even been properly examined yet. Kirby doesn't have the ease to 0% to death as Jiggly does. Get that through your head. Yes, Kirby clearly has some advantages over Jiggly, but consider a good Jiggly being able to do simple rest combos.

So if there are some match-ups that you feel are wrong, please elaborate and I'll change it.

Either way, it's not as if I can't re-change anything.

but again, it's not as if I can't change it back afterward.

I'm going to change Falcon = Pikachu back to Falcon < Pikachu in the next update, since players started giving more opinions after it was changed.

It's not as if it becomes irreversible after changing something, so relax.

Nothing in this chart is permanent; ranks and match-ups will bounce around so don't have a tempor tantrum if something is incorrect, just state your opinions. Originally, we had Jigglypuff as the very worst character, and that's clearly changed over the course of updates.

Any changes are not permanent, etc.

Honestly, if I hadn't been aggressive with getting things changed and updated, we would never have gotten anywhere with this. And often when I change something that people disagree with, their opinions start coming out.

CHANGES ARE NOT PERMANENT

Some Agreement:

Kirby > Jigglypuff to Kirby = Jigglypuff
Fox >> Ness to Fox > Ness

Debating:

Ness = Yoshi to Ness ? Yoshi
Link = Jigglypuff to Link ? Jigglypuff
Samus = Ness to Samus ? Ness

 

[Lovage]

i agree with fox > ness

 

[Zen Yore]

Some Agreement:

Kirby > Jigglypuff to Kirby = Jigglypuff
Fox >> Ness to Fox > Ness

Debating:

Ness = Yoshi to Ness ? Yoshi
Link = Jigglypuff to Link ? Jigglypuff
Samus = Ness to Samus ? Ness

imo:

Kirby > Jigglypuff
Fox > Ness

Ness = Yoshi
Link < Jigglypuff
Samus = Ness

 

[Surri-Sama]

Have you even seen AntD's chart? Jiggs is practically the best in aerial mobility. Last I checked, the only one she loses too in that is Pikachu.

Weight is less is more, rest is fine.

I just wanted to argue this one, it was pretty bad. I know nothing on the Jiggs vs Kirby matchup. Seems perfect wise Kirby will do better, but Jiggs will punish a lot better.

WOW more data biased points xP

data or not jiggly is hella slow in the air, i find anyways, maybe i've just been playign a different game or something o.o

 

[Nintendude]

I still say Jiggly = Kirby. It can be a really campy match that really comes down to Kirby getting more hits but Jiggly's hits being more lethal (since Jiggly can 0-death Kirby really easily).

Fox > Ness

 

[SilentSlayers]

Thank you Icy. I havn't read this topic faithfully enough to realize this. Sorry.

 

[Deleted member]

Jiggly vs Kirby is very confusing as to who wins that I think its even

 

[Lawrencelot]

WOW more data biased points xP

data or not jiggly is hella slow in the air, i find anyways, maybe i've just been playign a different game or something o.o

Dude, jiggly is the fastest char in the air, both in this game and in melee, there's no doubt about that. I'm talking about horizontal movement then, for vertical it's spacies usually. You must have been playing against fox only with jiggs, then she can't move horizontally at all because of laz0rs

 

[Surri-Sama]

I forgot you guys play alone as jiggly and run around....top speed!


I suppose its my wording that makes me wrong, so you guys win this english round, but when we play smash....it maybe a different story


Because she floats i find it very easy to deal with jiggly in the air.

is that true? use Ant-Ds data to prove me wrong :o

 

[NixxxoN]

Its not about Jiggly's pure speed, its about her fast direction change and her overall fast movement capability and agility.

 

[Nintendude]

A lot of characters can have a really hard time approaching Kirby because they can only space well horizontally. Jiggly has the added bonus of being able to space well vertically (air camping can be a form of this). This doesn't work as well against fast characters like Falcon because Jiggly can't get out of the way in time if she gets too close, but Kirby can't do anything to an air-camping Jiggly because he's slow and his uair is garbage.

 

[t3h Icy]

Updated:

Kirby > Jigglypuff to Kirby = Jigglypuff
Fox >> Ness to Fox > Ness

Some Agreement:

Jigglypuff = Link to Jigglypuff > Link

Debating:

Ness = Yoshi to Ness ? Yoshi
Samus = Ness to Samus ? Ness

 

[Blue Yoshi]

I also agree that it should be Kirby = Jigglypuff, but I think it is still being debated (as in Kirby ? Jiggly). I think you jumped the gun there. Yes I know it's not final etc., but you should probably put it in "debating", as there are people debating for both sides still.

 

[SilentSlayers]

That's exactly what I mean.

 

[Surri-Sama]

A lot of characters can have a really hard time approaching Kirby because they can only space well horizontally. Jiggly has the added bonus of being able to space well vertically (air camping can be a form of this). This doesn't work as well against fast characters like Falcon because Jiggly can't get out of the way in time if she gets too close, but Kirby can't do anything to an air-camping Jiggly because he's slow and his uair is garbage.

His Uair is pretty bad, but i've heard good things about his ground tilts...especially that one where he uses the foot, and kind of kicks backwards over his own head! its really easy to use too.

 

[Nintendude]

A Jiggly player who just randomly descends onto Kirby's up-tilt is clearly not playing patiently enough. The entire point of air-camping /spacing is being really patient and waiting for an opening. Yes, this can result in stalemates but to me that's another indicator that it is even.

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

kirby's air camp game is way better

 

[Superstar]

I'm using a data biased argument simply because "no Jiggs is fast" is a weak argument.

The data means that Jiggs has the highest acceleration [Kirby is 4th], and the 4th highest top speed [Kirby is 2nd worst]. Resistance, if only I knew what that was, Jiggs has a pretty high one. If it's additional deceleration, that's awesome and means Jiggs can weave back and forth. If it "fights" the deceleration, bleh.

Overall, assuming resistance is what I think it is [it's what makes most sense looking at the numbers], it means Jiggs can easily weave back and forth, which should fail against fast characters, but Kirby isn't reall that fast.

Not arguing for this matchup, I'm arguing the point.

 

[Nintendude]

kirby's air camp game is way better

Is it really? It's maneuverability and punishment ability vs. priority. I don't see how either of those significantly outweighs the other.

 

[Surri-Sama]

i know my arguements are weak....this thread is weak....most of the players who are posting here are weak


i cant explain to you guys why, (nor do i want to) kirby >jiggly

it is what it is...i say priority and the ability to gimp like fawk makes kirby better.

being patient with jiggly is a stupid thing to say because i know kirby can out camp jiggly in every way, so have fun with your defensive strategy, it wont work x.X

 

[NixxxoN]

I don't think Kirby can outcamp Jiggly... but maybe Kirby can edgeguard Jiggly better and force her better off the stage. the up+b is kinda different lol

 

[Lovage]

lets move onto a different matchup

how about mario vs. fox

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

Before I get into mario vs fox

Kirby has much more priority. but within the air, kirby does not have a good vertical hit.

Jigglypuff probably has better aerial movement, and more moves to bait.

I personally think that Jigglypuff will have to be extremely careful in order to win.

For Mario vs Fox

i personally believe that Fox is probably 65-35 better on HC vs Mario, as long as Fox doesn't get too offensive, Fox should win. Laser camp works and this is the only matchup where Mario's fireballs aren't broken due to shine cancelling. Fox should just stay away from edges, unless Fox is comboing off of them or knows he won't be grabbed. On BF, the matchup is better in Mario, probably around 60-40...simply because fox is easily gimped on this stage (one back throw or forward throw depending on where mario is) and fox is overall really bad on Battlefield. Fox > Mario or Fox = Mario. I am in between, like 55-45 Fox just becuse HC is so much more common than DL.

 

[Deleted member]

Kirby's back-air is pretty good for hitting anything above as long as Kirby's back air is facing the right way if that makes sense


60-40 Fox vs Mario

Both can mess each other up pretty bad, just that Fox has the easier openings, combos, gimps while Mario has combos, even easier gimps

 

[NixxxoN]

Agreed with s2j

I dont know how efficient the shine can be vs fireballs though

 

[t3h Icy]

Fox already has an advantage against Mario.

 

[Kefit]

Fox > Mario

Mario has a really hard time dealing with a laser camping Fox, but otherwise it's not that bad. Fox has the advantage due to speed and pressure, but Mario's range and fireball shenanigans keeps the fight competitive.

A fox who can consistently reflector cancel fireballs can basically shut down much of Mario's fireball shenanigans. They can still be used as a camping tool, but medium range fireball rush into grab/aerial becomes risky.

 

[asianaussie]

Fox = faster, better approach, arguably better projectile and shine/jabs to counter the other projectile.
Mario has the better edgeguard, but that isn't Mario's strength, it's Fox's weakness.

Fox > Mario...

Why is this being discussed when Fox already has the advantage?

 

[Surri-Sama]

Kirby has a poor Uair, no ****.


maybe you guys think kirby isnt > then jiggly because you all use Kirby's Uair to much

 

[Nintendude]

Kirby having a bad uair and Jiggly running into up-tilts are two completely different things. One is a lack of a viable option while the other has to do with offense/defense/spacing.

If you aren't gonna provide any good argument (and you even admitted your arguments are weak) and just get annoyed at your own inability to debate then seriously just stop posting.

 

[t3h Icy]

Some Agreement:

Jigglypuff = Link to Jigglypuff > Link

Debating:

Ness = Yoshi to Ness ? Yoshi
Samus = Ness to Samus ? Ness

 

[DMoogle]

Jigglypuff's u-air sucks too as a defensive move.

EDIT: And her u-tilt does nothing for defense.