The New Match-Up Chart v2 - Convert to +/-? ;;>_>

[Olikus]

falcon puff is pretty even on DL, maybe falcon +1.

 

[Battlecow]

Call me old-school, but I still believe that puff kicks *** in that MU. +1 for da puffsta

 

[The Star King]

u mus be jokin

Doug can't combo mario for ****. Mario's gimps on doug are easier than your mom (fthrow-dair HURR DURR I GOOD). Doug has a REALLY hard time edgeguarding mario.

Falcon has a relatively good combo game vs any character. He may not combo Mario as well as the heavyweights/fastfallers, but "can't combo Mario for ****" simply isn't true.

I will admit edgeguarding Mario with Falcon can be a tad difficult, but I wouldn't say it's REALLY hard. If Mario is forced to down-B, Falcon is good at getting out there and punishing with dair/up-b/bair/tipper uair or whatever, depending on Mario's position. You can use dtilt to edgeguared

You think that Pika vs fox is worse than Kirby vs Falcon? OK buddy.

Not in general, but specifically on Dreamland, quite possibly. I could see them being about the same, though.

Mario is underrated as hell. His recovery is good and he's good at gimping so he's especially good on DL.

Mario is overrated as hell. However, I could see why someone like you, who seems to focus on combos/edgeguarding, would think otherwise.

I think I'm pretty good at Falcon vs Mario though. I like it better than Fox vs Mario.

More than Fox vs Mario? u weird

I would agree that Kirby vs Falcon is worse than Falcon vs Link on DL. Maybe the same.

For realz bro? Falcon vs Link on DL is completely awful.

falcon puff is pretty even on DL, maybe falcon +1.

It's AT LEAST +1 for Falcon, and probably +2.

Call me old-school, but I still believe that puff kicks *** in that MU. +1 for da puffsta

No.

 

[Armada]

I just looked at the numbers you have put in some MUs and it looks good (CF MU I mean cause Im a Falcon main and I haven´t much experience with otherchars/MU).

I have been playing kinda much against Pika/Kirby/Fox/Puff and in all of those MUs I agree with the numbers you have been useing to describe this MUs =).

 

[asianaussie]

I'm basically going to agree with everything Star King said, though I didn't read it particularly thoroughly. Falcon Puff is more like +2.

I hate playing against Mario so much. Not even because it's an awful matchup (most of the time), I just hate it. Luigi vs Mario is pretty fun though.

 

[The Star King]

I love playing against Mario. He's easy to destroy. PWNED

 

[ballin4life]

Mario is overrated as hell. However, I could see why someone like you, who seems to focus on combos/edgeguarding, would think otherwise.

combos and edgeguarding are pretty important ...

what am I missing anyway?


Also Mario isn't that good at comboing, although he is hard to combo.

 

[Battlecow]

Falcon has a relatively good combo game vs any character. He may not combo Mario as well as the heavyweights/fastfallers, but "can't combo Mario for ****" simply isn't true.

Falcon relies on his combo game. He combos mario badly compared to how he combos other chars. I didn't mean to imply that his combo game on mario was as bad as, say, samus'.

Also I knew you were gonna say that about puff v doug. I guess I'm wrong about that one; I'll chalk it up to me personally hating that MU

srsly tho doug can't combo jiggs for **** and jiggs combos doug like a mother****er. ALL IM SAYIN

Also don't listen to Armada. He doesn't know anything about smash =p

 

[Olikus]

The main reason I'll see for falcon having advantage over puff is that puff has a hard time approaching falcon. His upsmash, upair and bair beats pretty much everything puff can come up with. Still like battlecow said puff combos falcon like a champ, while falcon doesnt combo her that good.

Thats why I lean more for +1 than +2.

 

[Armada]

Battlecow: It sucks when people are telling me the fact =(

 

[The Star King]

@Mario I find it really hard to explain why I don't find Mario to be as good as others think, but... he's kind of slow and hard to approach with. Or something. Probably not. This really annoys me, how I can't explain this

@Battlecow Combos aren't all that Falcon's got, or he wouldn't be that good vs Samus or whatever. He can still run circles around Mario, and use bair to beat like everything.

@Puff He doesn't have to combo her that hard. Fthrow-> pivot bair-> bair-> tipper uair (which I learned from Battlecow LAWL) gets Puff to a decent percentage and off the stage for an edgeguard opportunity. Falcon is one the better characters at edgeguarding Puff IMO. Also, what Olikus said.

 

[Battlecow]

Battlecow: It sucks when people are telling me the fact =(

The truth hurts. Oh well, you're still probably one of the better EUROPEAN players... not that that says much

@Battlecow Combos aren't all that Falcon's got, or he wouldn't be that good vs Samus or whatever. He can still run circles around Mario, and use bair to beat like everything.

OK. I see what you're saying, and it has merit. I don't think it makes up for mario's recovery and gimping, but I can't convince you of that with words.

@Puff He doesn't have to combo her that hard. Fthrow-> pivot bair-> bair-> tipper uair (which I learned from Battlecow LAWL)
]

That's a really shaky combo. It connects, but just like a little bit of DI or a little wobble in your pivot makes it fail hardcore.

 

[The Star King]

Don't listen to Battlecow, Armada. He's garbage at this game

OK. I see what you're saying, and it has merit. I don't think it makes up for mario's recovery and gimping, but I can't convince you of that with words.

It's always hard to change people's opinions about match-ups with words if they already have opinions on them, unfortunately.

Luckily, we have online to, say, pwn people who think Luigi wrecks Puff.

That's a really shaky combo. It connects, but just like a little bit of DI or a little wobble in your pivot makes it fail hardcore.

Doesn't seem that easy to DI from to me. Not sure what you mean by "a little wobble in your pivot", but that sounds like human error to me, and I can do it pretty consistently in training mode, at least.

 

[Battlecow]

Doesn't seem that easy to DI from to me. Not sure what you mean by "a little wobble in your pivot", but that sounds like human error to me, and I can do it pretty consistently in training mode, at least.

Well, it always works for me... except when I'm playing good puffs lol. That being said, I try it out of grab at 0 every single time so it's obviously not that shaky lol.

 

[ballin4life]

fthrow uair uair upB does more damage and actually combos (fthrow bair doesn't combo)

 

[ciaza]

I'd rather sacrifice that damage for a more horizontal knockback, making it easier to edgeguard. I'm not sure about the validity of the combo however.

 

[Battlecow]

The point of whether it combos or not is moot if it's inescapable. Can you get out of it sans DI?

 

[The Star King]

It does combo. Tap jump makes it easier, so use that.

And in that case, I would probably use Fthrow->second hit fair->uair->up b, which does the same amount of damage, but the uair isn't stale and thus has more hitstun, making it easier to combo into up b. I'm not even sure fthrow uair uair upb legitly combos.

Like ciaza said, the horizontal knockback from Battlecow's combo can be worth the 4% less lol. Makes it easier to edgeguard. It can actually zero->death if you're close enough to the edge.

 

[DJRome]

can some of you guys post vids of these things? not that im questioning skill, but i would like to see it

 

[ballin4life]

It does combo. Tap jump makes it easier, so use that.

And in that case, I would probably use Fthrow->second hit fair->uair->up b, which does the same amount of damage, but the uair isn't stale and thus has more hitstun, making it easier to combo into up b. I'm not even sure fthrow uair uair upb legitly combos.

Like ciaza said, the horizontal knockback from Battlecow's combo can be worth the 4% less lol. Makes it easier to edgeguard. It can actually zero->death if you're close enough to the edge.

I did try it with tap jump. Maybe I'm just not good at tap jumps.

Which part of uair uair upB doesn't combo?

 

[The Star King]

I'm not sure about the last uair up b. Hard to say.

Ok, I'll post a video of fthrow bair bair uair later. I don't find it very hard.

 

[The Star King]

can some of you guys post vids of these things? not that im questioning skill, but i would like to see it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPhG2fawxZs

 

[Olikus]

Icy should gather the votes so far for kirby and falcon. Hard to say which MUs we have forgoten, since its so long since last update.

 

[x After Dawn x]

He's moving to BC right now so this won't be updated for a little while. Someone should "tally" the votes in the meantime.

Dibs out.

 

[ciaza]

Shot not.

Frankly I don't think this project will be completed. I don't mean to be a downer but I say we let the BRoom take care of it. What are they there for anyway?

 

[The Star King]

Why not? We don't have a problem discussing, and we finished one before. The only problem is discussion dies after a little while, and t3h icy isn't here to move the conversation along. I think we just need t3h icy, that's all.

 

[clubbadubba]

pre-emptive strike against star king:

Falcon v Kirby is +3

wut.

 

[The Star King]

That was a joke lol. Not going to type an essay.

It's +2, though.

 

[clubbadubba]

you must be trippin. +3 homie, utilt too gooooooooooood

 

[t3h Icy]

I took a break from this for awhile since things got messy, and right now I'm moving and doing stuff.

I'll eventually get back to this if it still has a pulse by then.

 

[asianaussie]

Where the hell is the essay?

You've let me down, Star King. I was waiting to partake from your boundless reserves of knowledge on how Battlecow hates Kirby or something.

 

[ciaza]

I wasn't there for the making of the last match-up chart, but surely it didn't plod along at this pace? If it did then by all means continue discussion.

 

[SilentSlayers]

That was a joke lol. Not going to type an essay.

It's +2, though.

Agreed. LOLZ

 

[The Star King]

Where the hell is the essay?

You've let me down, Star King. I was waiting to partake from your boundless reserves of knowledge on how Battlecow hates Kirby or something.

Damn, even though you're probably joking I actually kind of feel a little guilty and want to type it now LOL

Still probably won't, though

 

[t3h Icy]

I wasn't there for the making of the last match-up chart, but surely it didn't plod along at this pace? If it did then by all means continue discussion.

There's no one running this at the moment.

Go discuss Falcon you nubs. :D

 

[clubbadubba]

Lets ignore falcon v kirby, its a stalemate at the moment.

Falcon v Link: needs to change to at least +3
Falcon v jiggles: needs to change to +1 or +2

 

[Battlecow]

Falcon vs Link is +3 at least

I'm still rolling with even on the vs. Jiggles but WHATEVER I'm not as absolutely superpositive on that one as I am on the kirby one.

 

[The Star King]

I also agree with Falcon Link being +3 at least.

Falcon Puff is +2.

 

[clubbadubba]

We all 3 said 'at least +3' for falcon v link. Would it be safe to say we all think its actually +4? I just didn't wanna go overboard and cause another huge argument, but if people are feeling +4, so am I.

 

[The Star King]

I don't really know. Wouldn't mind +4 I guess, pretty indifferent.

NEVER BE AFRAID OF GOING OVERBOARD, CLUBBA. That's my philosophy. Luigi only has a slight advantage on Puff btw