The *NEW* and *IMPROVED* move ranking list

[The_Blue_Bomber]

Now the old one ended... Very strangely... >_>
So let's start fresh, basically this list will be a 1-10 ranking of each type of move. Now I don't know that much about all the characters so I am going to save myself from the embarrassment of posting all wrong lists, and leave them blank for now. But with your help I can fill them in.

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Jab
1. Ike
2. Snake
3. Squirtle
4. Pit
5. Falco
6. Lucario
7. Luigi
8. Yoshi
9. Captain Falcon
10. Peach
Worst.

Dash
1. Snake
2. Ganondorf
3. Diddy Kong
4. Ivysaur
5. King Dedede
6. Game and Watch
7. Sonic
8. Meta Knight
9.
10.
Worst.

Ftilt
1. Snake
2. Shiek
3. Ike
4. Wolf
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
Worst.

Dtilt
1. Meta Knight
2. Game and Watch
3. Donkey Kong
4. Marth
5. Ganondorf
6. Snake
7. Samus
8. Lucas
9.
10.
Worst. Mario

Utilt
1. Snake
2. Fox
3. King Dedede
4. Peach
5. Pit
6. Mario
7. Kirby
8.
9.
10.
Worst. Ganondorf

Fsmash
1. Kirby
2. Game and Watch
3. Wario
4. Pit
5. Luigi
6. Lucas
7. Lucario
8. Donkey Kong
9.
10.
Worst.

Dsmash
1. Meta Knight
2. Game and Watch
3. Zero Suit Samus
4. ROB
5. Wolf
6. Zelda
7. Ice Climbers
8. Olimar
9.
10.
Worst. Jigglypuff

Usmash
1. Fox
2. Snake
3. Olimar
4. Zelda
5. Peach
6. Donkey Kong
7. Marth
8. Yoshi
9. Ike
10.
Worst. Jigglypuff

Nair
1. Luigi
2. Meta Knight
3. ROB
4. Game and Watch
5. Ike
6. Lucas
7. Yoshi
8. Sheik
9.
10.
Worst.

Fair
1. Marth
2. Meta Knight
3. Ness
4. Lucario
5. Peach
6. Ike
7. Wolf
8. Kirby
9. Pikachu
10.
Worst.

Dair
1. Meta Knight
2. Lucario
3. Peach
4. Wario
5. Game and Watch
6. Falco
7. Fox
8. Ganondorf
9. Ness
10.
Worst. Sheik

Uair
1. Meta Knight
2. Olimar
3. Ganondorf
4. Wario
5. Yoshi
6. King Dedede
7. Sonic
8. Captain Falcon
9.
10.
Worst. Lucas

Bair
1. Game and Watch
2. Donkey Kong
3. King Dedede
4. Wolf
5. Kirby
6. Yoshi
7. ROB
8. Pit
9. Luigi
10. Marth
Worst. Pikachu

Zair
1. Samus
2.
3.
4.
5/Worst: Lucas

Neutral Special
1. Meta Knight
2. Snake
3. Falco
4. Lucario
5. Pit
6. ROB
7. Wario
8. Donkey Kong
9. Wolf
10.
Worst. Lucas/Ganondorf

Forward/Side/Over Special
1. Marth
2. Charizard
3. Olimar
4. Zero Suit Samus
5. King Dedede
6. Mario
7. Ganondorf
8. Bowser
9. Lucas
10. Jigglypuff
Worst.

Down Special
1. Diddy Kong
2. Pikachu
3. Wario
4. Wolf
5. ROB
6. Ice Climbers
7. Zero Suit Samus
8. Donkey Kong
9. Sonic
10.
Worst.

Up Special
1. Meta Knight
2. Pikachu
3. ROB
4. Marth
5. Game and Watch
6. Sonic
7. Ice Climbers
8. Bowser
9. Luigi
10. Donkey Kong
Worst. Jigglypuff

Standing Grab (Actual grab, not the throw)
1. Olimar
2. Charizard
3. King Dedede
4. Squirtle
5. Sonic
6. Captain Falcon
7.
8.
9.
10.
Worst.

Dash Grab (Actual grab, not the throw)
1. Ness
2. Meta Knight
3. Yoshi
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
Worst. Bowser

Pivot Grab
1. Olimar
2. Yoshi
3. King Dedede
4. Lucas
5. Sonic
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

Fthrow
1. Donkey Kong
2. Kirby
3. Ganondorf
4. Pikachu
5. Pit
6. Ness
7.
8.
9.
10.
Worst.

Dthrow
1. King Dedede
2. Falco
3. Game and Watch
4. Snake
5. Olimar
6. Sonic
7. Yoshi
8. Peach
9. Pikachu
10. Luigi
Worst.

Uthrow
1. Olimar
2. Meta Knight
3. Sonic
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
Worst.

Bthrow
1. Ness
2. King Dedede
3. Olimar
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
Worst.

Pummel
1. Lucas
2. Olimar
3. Sonic
4. Lucario
5. Luigi
6. Mario
7.
8.
9.
10.
Worst. Samus

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Please tell me your thoughts on what move should be where and I will edit if your arguement is good enough. So please don't say something like "Sonic's Fair is awesome, it should be 1st" (Just an example) you have to give a reason why.

Also please note that techniques like MK's IDC are not counted, towards the score of the move.

Transformations such as that of Zelda and PT are not counted.

 

[kr3wman]

Captain Falcon's Fair is awesome, it should be first.


---


You should put the obvious like MK Down Smash, MK Dash Grab, MK Neutral B, MK Up-B, MK Fair, MK D-tilt, MK Dair, MK Uair and stuff

 

[The_Blue_Bomber]

Okay, added some obvious ones.

 

[Kirio]

Snake for jab #2 or maybe even #1. Strong by itself and is cancelable into utilt and ftilt, both kill moves. Amazing.

 

[Ussi]

Snake's utilt and ftilt #1, jab #2, nuetral b top 4
MK's uair #1, dtilt #1
Marth's dtilt #2

 

[TP]

Pit does NOT have the second best recovery Up B. Top ten, yes, but not that high. Meta Knight and Pikachu come to mind as better choices.

G&W does NOT have the second best useful Up B. Top ten, MAYBE, but not that high. Marth, perhaps Mario and DK, Bowser and Luigi are all good ones.

For worst Up B (both kinds): Jiggly. No question.

 

[ph00tbag]

I still don't get why G&W and MK's dsmashes are "obviously" better than ZSS's. They're faster, yes, but they are solely for KOing, so spamming them is a bad idea. ZSS's dsmash is used to set up for whatever you will. It's safe on block and most importantly, it's spammable. It can be used for edgeguarding, KO set-ups, damage dealing (fresh dsmash 2x = 21%)/combos, and defense. IMO, it is the most damaging, versatile dsmash in the game. I can't understand how that doesn't make it the best dsmash in the game.

 

[Yonder]

What I think:

Luigi's up B: 6th (A good Luigi player knows when to execute the attack, and can also be used for recovery, along with killing at ridiculously low percentages. Can also be set up by jabs, d tilts, and even a nair if used correctly.)
Luigi's F Smash: 6th (This move is one of the quickest strong killers in the game and easily kills the majority of the cast in the low percentages. it's draw back is it's short range)
Luigi's Nair: 2nd (This move is great. If it sourspots, it combos into other moves. If it misses, it kills easily. The hitbox lasts for a long amount of time and the move comes out instantly. It's priority is also ables to shut down most moves.)

 

[c0nd0r]

why is ness's fair better than MK's?

it was worse on the old list.

having to seperate upB categories is stupid too. You could do the same for other moves...

lol at snake's nair being second best. its easy to DI out of and luigi's robs, marth's and tlink's are all way better.

 

[Ussi]

I'm with phootbag. G&W and MK's dsmash are OVERRATED

 

[_Phloat_]

Pit does NOT have the second best recovery Up B. Top ten, yes, but not that high. Meta Knight and Pikachu come to mind as better choices.

G&W does NOT have the second best useful Up B. Top ten, MAYBE, but not that high. Marth, perhaps Mario and DK, Bowser and Luigi are all good ones.

For worst Up B (both kinds): Jiggly. No question.

Marths might be better, but Mario's isn't as good and DK's I don't think is either. Bowser maybe, Luigi I don't think so.

I don't use it much, but I recognize its power (makes nair approach almost unpunishable, has frames of invulnerability that make it a second spot dodge, gimps very well). It can combo out of nair, and then flows into another aerial very well.

I don't even like it that much, get someone like Hylian, who uses it all the time (he has said he picked up GaW for it) to explain its other numerous uses.

 

[ungulateman]

Jiggs for worst standard B.

Remember Mario's Story? Go watch the end episode.

 

[CO18]

Snake or Fox for Up Smash.

I'd say Pikachu for 3rd downsmash spot.


Dedede for Bair.

 

[Kraryo]

Fox has the best usmash for KOing. Zamus's usmash can't even kill, but it helps rack up damage, is very fast, and has excellent range. Snakes usmash is good as a projectile to pressure opponents from above.

For Dash attacks, Snake's dash is just like Wolf's fsmash except it's weaker but faster and more ranged. It can also start up a boost smash. Ditto with Sonic, except it's not as strong or ranged as Snake's and using it to Boost Smash is redundant. Ivysaur is the best dash for KOing since it's so quick and powerful.

 

[Airgemini]

Jab

Peach's Jab comes out on frame two I believe and is perfect to set up grabs against certain characters. It's also quite possibly her safest move, it's tied with her golf club as her second most ranged attack (the second slap mind you).

I'd say maybe 8 or 9.

Utilt

Peach's definately needs to be on here. It out prioritizes ALL Dairs if timed correctly, the vertical range is huge! Not to mention it's pretty cool looking.

I'd say maybe 5th or 6th

Usmash

I'd put her Usmash up here. It's very hard to hit with but it's the 4th strongest Usmash in the game, up there with GaW, Lucas, and Ivy. Her awesome sweetspot (shoulder pad) is incredibely strong.

I would probably put it 7th or 8th because it's so hard to find a situation to use it right.

Fair

Peach's Fair is too good! It's an awesome spacing tool and out ranges Marth's Fair I believe. It autocancels which leads to some nice combos.. It gives her a nice sheild pressure game. Fair> Jab or grab is awesome.

I'd put it about 5 or 6.

Dair

If anything Peach HAS to be on here somewhere. It's no argument that her Dair is one of the best in the game (not the best, one of the best). It sheild pressures like no other! She can land 50%+ combos on people with this move depending if you're fighting a heavy or light character.

I'd put it at 3 or 4.

Down Special

Ah yes the Turnips. This is pretty self explanatory. Turnips are awesome! She can pull out Stitchfaces (41% max!), Beamswords, Mr. Saturns (my favorite), and Bombs (almost instant KO XD). These are a major part of her game and help immensely. Not to mention they have several ATs to them (Glide Tossing, Turnips Free Pull, Turnip Ledge Cancel, etc)

I'd put these at 5-7

Fthrow

I dont really expect Peach to be in this one but I just wanted to note that at 0% through about 15% you can pull an additional 1-2 Fthrows if you're opponent isnt used to it.

Dthrow

I just wanted to note that she can CG the spacies with this to about 30 percent and follow up with whatever.

That's all =D

 

[Browny]

but zss dsmash is still slow, and can be punished by a spotdodge. spotdodging mk/G&W dsmash only ends up in getting hit anyway by the inevitable 2nd dsmash, or you block it and get pushed so far back you cant punish anyway even if you spotdodged at the right time. at least lucas' dsmash punishers spotdodgers and is a serious KO move while having all the damage dealing and edgeguarding properties ZSS' does. DK's needs to be somewhere high

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

I suggest adding grab releases air and ground to the list.

Also standing grab probably goes to olimar and DDD.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

Snake's jab is horrendous. Only the first hit is useful at all. The third hit can be powershileded 90% of the time.

Also, IMO, DK, Lucario, and MK have some of the best Fsmashes.

 

[The_Blue_Bomber]

lol at snake's nair being second best. its easy to DI out of and luigi's robs, marth's and tlink's are all way better.

Hmm? I didn't put Snake's Nair as second best. I think your confusing it with me putting it as 2nd best on Neutral Special.

 

[Samuelson]

Lucario's Fsmash, Dair, Fair, Neutral B(aura sphere), Utilt and Jab should all be on this list.

Fsmash - Lots of range and is hard to punish for most of the cast. It also lingers for a little bit so it can catch spot dodgers. It's also a tipper.

Dair - I think this move is pretty infamous. Stalls him in the air, deals lots of damage, pretty much no landing lag, perfect for ending combo's, HUGE range, pokes through shields, has great priority, disjointed hitbox, it's very quick, it's a very good KO move.

Fair - This is Lucario's best approach option and it starts pretty much all his combo's. It has very good range, disjointed hitbox and it lingers for a while.

Aura Sphere - Very spammable projectile that can be used to rack up percent and get KO's. Can be used for mindgames against lots of characters. You can also wave bounce while it is charging which is just the icing on the cake.

Utilt - Comes out very fast, it combos into itself at low percents and is a decent KO move at higher percents.

Jab - Lucario has a very good Jab game. I don't really know what else i need to say about his jab lol

Lucario has really good throws also but i'm not sure if they're worthy of being in the top 10. If you had to pick one throw to be in the top 10 then i would choose his Uthrow since it can start combo's really easily.


ZSS has one of the best, if not the best Dsmash's in the game. She also probably has the worst Fsmash.

Mario has the worst Dtilt in the game....it's so full of lol. Mario's Utilt and Uair are top tier though :D

Nair goes to Luigi...

DK and Wolf have some of the best Bairs in the game

 

[The_Blue_Bomber]

Alright I have edited the list with your suggestions so far, how is it looking?

 

[jaaboy]

lucas for pummel first place

 

[Adapt]

ZSS:
Top 10: dash, dsmash, down-B, side-B
Worst: fsmash, uthrow, grab

ROB:
Top 10: nair, up-B, dtilt (maybe), d-smash

diddy has a top 10 down-B for sure
squirtle has the worst neutral special I think. maybe lucas
ganon has the worst utilt

 

[Judge Judy]

For Side B, Mario's cape without a doubt. Also, Mario's Up B should definetly be considered for the top 10 since it's essentially the same as Marth's.

 

[highandmightyjoe]

Moves DK has that are worthy of a top ten spot: Dtilt, Ftilt, Dsmash, Fsmash, Fthrow(obvious), and Bair.

Zamus has probably the worst Fsmash, and top 3 Dsmash, arguably #1.

Also DDD, Wario, and Squirtle all have top tier taunts.

 

[Samsquamptch]

Diddy's down-B and IC's B-throw for the #1 spots in their respective categories.

 

[TP]

Here are the moves Ganon needs consideration for:

Dair - Huge hitbox for a spike, disjointed on the time, is an approach, starts both the murder combo and the bouncing combo, is good when tech chasing, kills most ground approaches. Top 10 easily, top 5 preferably (though I realize there are a lot of good Dairs, so top 5 may be pushing it).

Uair - Ganon's best move. Fast, outstanding hitbox, second part of bouncing combo, the first part kills, the last part edge guards extremely well against most characters, spammable, another approach option. Top 10 for sure.

Side B (Murder Choke) - Also known as "Ganon's entire ground game." This is not an approach, but it is great at punishing. It has guaranteed followups against the entire cast except 2 or 3 characters. These followups range from Dtilt to Jab to Ftilt to Dash Attack. Choke>Dash Attack is an auto kill on Meta Knight at 77%. Tech chasing allows Chokes to be strung together as long as the predictions are right, and as long as you predict well, its time for an Fsmash or Dair. This is certainly Ganon's most unique move, easily top 5.

Dtilt - If this does not have the most range of any Dtilt, it's close. Kills at 130 or so. It's the most common guaranteed followup from a Choke, working on like 27 characters. Very good at poking. I'd like to see it in the list, though I am not as confident about this one.

Dash Attack - Amazing killer. Fast (Frame 11 from standing) and kills light characters at 90 or so. Very nice priority and fat range. Guaranteed from Choke on about 10 characters. Top 5, no doubt about it.

Usmash - Ridiculous IASA frames makes it basically unpunishable. Disjointed in front by quite a bit (he can safely Usmash a bomb). The second part of the Murder combo: Dair>Usmash is a quick 40%. Not top 5, but top 10 would be nice. I understand if there is no room for it.

Warlock Punch - Worst neutral B in the game, unless Lucas NEVER uses his. This is only used if the opponent breaks his shield.

Utilt - Probably worst, but NOT useless. Any knowledgeable Ganon main will tell you that it is completely reasonable to use it once every match or two. Put it at worst, but don't laugh at it.

Standing AND running grab - Probably worst, unless someone else is equally pathetic. Feel free to put Ganon there.

 

[Scott!]

Zelda's Up Smash is definitely up there. Her Down Smash too.

Marth is pretty accurately represented. Fair is godly, side-B is too. His up-B is awesome too, though not quite to the same extent as the other two. Same with down tilt.

 

[Browny]

ganons dtilt is insane. has to be top 4 at least...

Anyone done sonic yet? lol

U-throw: 12%, can KO at decent %'s on some stages if unstaled (platform on the halberd while the stage has landed) and puts the enemy in a place they really dont want to be vs sonic. Also looks cool

U-air: decet sized horizontal hitbox on the first kick and the second kick has a huge disjoint which can beat G&W key, lucario dair if its spaced perfectly. Its quite easy to AC if you do it out of a short-hop and is quick enough to pressure people on platforms when you can do it multiple times in a row, quickly.

down-b. Im not going to explain this too much here, but used in the air, sonics down-b is not only a high damaging attack if it hits a grounded opponent (28%+), its a cancellable approach, and can star KO at high %'s. Its not so much a great attack (such as snakes ftilt) but its a gret move in the way it changes sonics game and approach options.

Spring. This has to be at least top 5, recovery and other uses. You all know what it can do

 

[Gindler]

I think yoshi should be somewhere on the Bair list. One of if not his best move...

 

[Ussi]

Ike:

Nair: his other combo move and it auto cancels. Lasts forever so it eats ADs and rolls.

fair: 4th longest aerial reach only beaten by Link's and Samus's zair and ZSS's side B. It is Ike's reason why his air game is good.

Ftilt: strongest ftilt, long ground range, deserves a spot but definally not top 5.

Usmash: largest usmash hitbox and 7th strongest usmash. Has a massive 20 IASA frames. Lingering hitbox behind Ike.

 

[kr3wman]

ROB's downsmash should be higher. His neutral and Down B should also be somewhere on the map.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Fsmash: Wario @#1 pl0x. Marth doesn't belong in top 10 there. His fsmash isn't great at all.

 

[Shake~]

Toon Link's bair and uair seem good enough to be in the top 10.

And Lucas has the best pummel I believe. Dunno who has the worst though.

 

[Matt07]

Mario has the worst down tilt in the game.

 

[DarkKyanite]

i don't see much intelligent in this thread
wait, am i the only non 2008ers here?

 

[ph00tbag]

but zss dsmash is still slow, and can be punished by a spotdodge. spotdodging mk/G&W dsmash only ends up in getting hit anyway by the inevitable 2nd dsmash, or you block it and get pushed so far back you cant punish anyway even if you spotdodged at the right time. at least lucas' dsmash punishers spotdodgers and is a serious KO move while having all the damage dealing and edgeguarding properties ZSS' does. DK's needs to be somewhere high

Dude, ZSS's dsmash is just about as tough to punish as MK's and G&W's. If you can punish it out of a spotdodge, then good onya, but the only time I get punished is if I go for another dsmash. If I shield or spotdodge, then I only get punished if they predict which of the two I'm going to do, which isn't punishing the dsmash, it's punishing the shield or spotdodge.

Lucas's dsmash still has that dilemma of having to choose between KOer and damage dealer. Again, I tell you that ZSS doesn't have to choose. She can spam it from when her opponent is at zero, till when they're at 150. It still has the same effect at leading into anything. Can any other dsmash in the game do that?

 

[Boofy!]

i don't see much intelligent in this thread
wait, am i the only non 2008ers here?

Oh the irony LMAO, but yea this thread is oozing with fail so far.. Lucas' pummel is boss stuff, I would contribute more but its hard to keep track of what I wanted to say right now >_>

EDIT: Ok I'm back, tabbed browsing FTW.. Dash attacks: Snake's covers alot of ground, is difficult to punish, especially when snakedashed on contact, Diddy's is great as well, but can be shieldgrabbed easier.. Worst is luigi, its just DIRT..

Utilts: Fawks's is pretty smexy, as is Mario's and Lucario's..

Nair: IDK about luigi's as the best, its certainly good, but best?

Uair: MK's where its at..

Bair: better get Diddy's on there somewhere..

ADD A PIVOT GRAB LIST!!!

 

[Adapt]

so would a DACUS be considered part of the up-smash or dash attack?

I'll go through ZSS again

Dsmash - will kill as early as MKs d-smash once you include the guaranteed followups, huge range, no ending lag. If it is spotdodged, you can just followup with a jab or tilt and there's nothing they can do. Also if they are on the edge, it can setup a guaranteed spike at any percent. I tend to agree that it's #1 but not everyone does.

Dash attack - very fast, excellent setup for many moves. combos into a jab at low percents, utilt, dtilt, and another dash later. This can setup a laserlock scenario using ftilts and dash attacks that can end in a d-smash>down-B spike on the end.

Side-B - This one of the best spacing moves in the game. It packs quite a punch and has very little ending lag. It has the highest range of any melee move in the game and can be done in the air. It's also a horizontal recovery move that has the best range of any tether (might be tied with samus's zair)

Down-B - This is an excellent recovery move, it has automatic wall jump properties, it also has the flipstool. A modified footstool that can travel most of the length of FD, or high into the air about the same distance. You can do this to people who are edgehogging you or edgeguarding you. It can even flipstool attacks and physical projectiles like grenades. There is also the attack. It is one of the top 10 strongest in the game and can kill many characters at 30ish %. Even if you don't hit with the spike, the move will still kill out the side around 120%

up-B - This is a very interesting move, as good for vertical recovery as most up-Bs and can be thrown out as many times as you want in the air without becoming helpless. It will spike in 2 places and one of the spikes has surprising power at low percents (more powerful than Ganon's up to 4%). It has use in many comboing applications like the cake combo and also (in combination with usmash) negates 90% of aerial approaches.


Worst:

F-smash - very laggy, weak smash attack. gains very little benefit from being charged.

Grab/dash-grab - long range but leaves you open for a full second or more if missed. there is also a dead spot in the grab very close to the muzzle of the gun

Uthrow - doesn't kill until 230ish and it is impossible to followup on. thoroughly useless

 

[UnSaxon51]

Just going to comment on some current standings as well as some that haven't been touched yet.

Dair
There is no denying that Lucario and Ganon's are awesome, but Peach and Meta Knight both deserve contending spots.

Uair
Meta Knight and Wario need to be in this list somewhere.

Standing Grab (Actual grab, not the throw)
Olimar definitely deserves his number 1 spot here, but if we're only considering the actual grab, then Charizard beats Dedede hands down.
Zero Suit Samus's is probably the worst.

Fthrow
Ganon's does the most damage. I'd place it in top 5. Pikachu's is pretty good too. And let's not forget DK's cargo carry.

Dthrow
Um, how is Falco not mentioned here yet? He's easily number 2. Game & Watch should probably have a spot here somewhere, too.

Uthrow
Olimar's is good with every Pikmin color except white.

Bthrow
Dedede should be top 5.

Pummel
Lucas MUST be number 1 here. His pummel is too good.