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The New and Hopefully improved Captain Falcon matchup thread! Discussing : MmmmK
- Thread starter talkingbeatles
- Start date
Skip2MaLoo
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2008
- Messages
- 1,293
yah utilt wrecks floaties. but im liking YOOOOUUUUUUUU tilt better. now how can we super soak that fine young lady?
†Slader7†
Smash Ace
Would anyone here agree that Jiggly is a gimp master?
jiggs will gimp your *** so dont go offstage
the only way your going to win this matchup is spacing bairs and utilts (and tipmanned uairs, but thats difficult yo, but FHFFUair works nicely because noone sees it coming ;D) to give yourself breathing room, and attempting to bait the jiggly into attacking your shield, where you can put her in a bad position for some uair juggling
\:
my friends jiggz is decent and im still ahving trouble following my own advice
the only way your going to win this matchup is spacing bairs and utilts (and tipmanned uairs, but thats difficult yo, but FHFFUair works nicely because noone sees it coming ;D) to give yourself breathing room, and attempting to bait the jiggly into attacking your shield, where you can put her in a bad position for some uair juggling
\:
my friends jiggz is decent and im still ahving trouble following my own advice
talkingbeatles
Smash Ace
I just want to repeat this so people get into their heads: Don't take Jiggs into the air! You really only can uair her. That's it. It's good, I know, but you can't rely on it for a kill, because you're going to be using it very often.
Utilts and dtilts are you're friend. Jab to grab to falcon dive for the kill. Seriously, right after the grab release, falcon dive. No jumps, just up B, and you'll grab her. This kills at high percents if you space it towards the edge correctly. Jiggs will be approaching you with aerials while you're on the ground, so be ready to sheild grab those punches, and time your utilts well. You'll also be able to catch her with dsmashes and fsmashes if you're patient and you space, I promise. The upsmash, not so much. It'll be hard to kill with. If you can sweet spot the bair, do it, but it'll be hard. As will the knee, obviously. Look for stages with ledges to tech chase and ****. Jiggs is hard to counter pick a stage against. I don't know what to say for that. FD should be a no go, obviously. Maybe Yoshi's Island or Lylat. I could see Frigate orpheon helping as well.
Utilts and dtilts are you're friend. Jab to grab to falcon dive for the kill. Seriously, right after the grab release, falcon dive. No jumps, just up B, and you'll grab her. This kills at high percents if you space it towards the edge correctly. Jiggs will be approaching you with aerials while you're on the ground, so be ready to sheild grab those punches, and time your utilts well. You'll also be able to catch her with dsmashes and fsmashes if you're patient and you space, I promise. The upsmash, not so much. It'll be hard to kill with. If you can sweet spot the bair, do it, but it'll be hard. As will the knee, obviously. Look for stages with ledges to tech chase and ****. Jiggs is hard to counter pick a stage against. I don't know what to say for that. FD should be a no go, obviously. Maybe Yoshi's Island or Lylat. I could see Frigate orpheon helping as well.
Noobicidal
Smash Master
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2008
- Messages
- 3,551
Next time, feel free to contact all *3* of us; we love discussion.
Utilt WILL wreck us, assuming we don't pound our way through it (pun intended).
I would.
If you're too shield-heavy, we'll take note and start approaching with Pound more. Pound is flexible enough to the point that only it being power-shielded puts us in a bad position. Falcon is also tall enough for us to FH RAR Bair and hit him without being remotely close to the ground. Also, Jiggs has the ability to weave in and out of attack range; we can Bair poke you, and if it misses, we can float away and try again.
Utilt WILL wreck us, assuming we don't pound our way through it (pun intended).
YI doesn't have any major counter-worthy aspect against Jiggs. Lylat is a stage that screws up several recoveries due to the tilt (which we're fairly immune to), and it has relatively small sides which makes gimping even easier. Frigate is one of our bread and butter stages actually.
talkingbeatles
Smash Ace
Heh. Yeah, I'd appreciate any kind of input Jigg mains can give us. I was actually going to go over and throw an invite you guys' way but I got lazy.
Like I said, I have no idea where to take Jiggs. It makes me sad that you guys rock Frigate... What's left? um...Pictochat.... Castle Siege?
Like I said, I have no idea where to take Jiggs. It makes me sad that you guys rock Frigate... What's left? um...Pictochat.... Castle Siege?
Noobicidal
Smash Master
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2008
- Messages
- 3,551
It's fun being the leader of the Jiggs' Stage Discussion.
Picto really depends on player preference if it's to be counter picked. Picto has no underside (similar to YI), so we can't "Bair-y" you underneath of the stage. The side blast zones are relatively small, which makes us "Fair" better offstage. As for the random stage effects, we can DI out of the fire relatively easy, and springs can be used to cancel Rests. Properly baited, rest will kill retardedly early due to the springs canceling horizontal momentum and making you go straight up.
Castle Siege is really only bad against us during the second stage. Stage 1 is relatively similar to YI and Picto with FD-like lips on the ledges, which doesn't hinder us. As for Stage 3, "It's like lylat cruise and FD had a child, and I love it." - PNDMike. Stage 3 would probably be our 100% counter pick if it didn't constantly keep changing.
HammerBro123
Smash Cadet
hahah nothing is going for craptan falcon
†Slader7†
Smash Ace
Ha Ha, bad joke
Nonetheless, Jiggly owns Falcon's air game (in my point of view) with only uair being Falcon's savior from utter destruction in the air. Utilt seems to be the only counter against Jiggly's power of mass destruction. Jiggly simply has the advantage of the match because she has what Falcon lacks, priority.
F5Hazardousdoc
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2008
- Messages
- 580
Its not what it gives jiggz, its what it gives falcon. Mock waveland, happy ledges for recovery *YAY HAPPY LEDGES* and overall awesomeness makes YI my favorite falcon stage.
Noodlehead
Smash Lord
weegee
he mainly approaches with aerials but don't always expect aerials, hint mixup. if you're the one approaching maybe expect some fireballs. you can pretty much kiss juggling goodbye due to his fair or nair. he doesn't have much tractability so it's harder for him to shieldgrab . luigi has great juggling abilities so be aware. i believe he can utilt chain you to like 30%, well im not 100% positive cause i dont really remember. don't edgehog if he is using his tornado recovery but go ahead if he is using his upb recovery. spacing is important in this matchup. also i like using ftilt against him, yes i said it, ftilt.
lol @ jab>jab>upb, i got hit by it once
40-60
honestly i have more trouble with mario than luigi
edit: oh yeah always be aware of his side b you never know when its going to "misfire"
he mainly approaches with aerials but don't always expect aerials, hint mixup. if you're the one approaching maybe expect some fireballs. you can pretty much kiss juggling goodbye due to his fair or nair. he doesn't have much tractability so it's harder for him to shieldgrab . luigi has great juggling abilities so be aware. i believe he can utilt chain you to like 30%, well im not 100% positive cause i dont really remember. don't edgehog if he is using his tornado recovery but go ahead if he is using his upb recovery. spacing is important in this matchup. also i like using ftilt against him, yes i said it, ftilt.
lol @ jab>jab>upb, i got hit by it once
40-60
honestly i have more trouble with mario than luigi
edit: oh yeah always be aware of his side b you never know when its going to "misfire"
talkingbeatles
Smash Ace
I definitely want to discuss Luigi next, but first can we get a stat down for Jiggly?
Taking suggestions....
NOW!
Taking suggestions....
NOW!
†Slader7†
Smash Ace
Stats: Jiggly pwns us!!! Falcon needs priority and range to defeat the puffy nemesis.
Any more suggestions? Ideas?
Any more suggestions? Ideas?
†Slader7†
Smash Ace
So who next should we discuss?
Noodlehead
Smash Lord
i'd say 40-60
talkingbeatles
Smash Ace
I'd say 40-60 as well for Jigglypuff.
I guess we'll start Luigi now.
I believe this is one of Falcon's hardest match ups. Luigi has so much here, while Falcon just has very little.
I guess we'll start Luigi now.
I believe this is one of Falcon's hardest match ups. Luigi has so much here, while Falcon just has very little.
Skip2MaLoo
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2008
- Messages
- 1,293
ill be playing a luigi/mario main next saturday ^_^ til then..I've got nada. I've only played scrub luigis lol.
†Slader7†
Smash Ace
Luigi's down b kills me personally and if we get a sweetspot knee but luigi shields it, we eat a good up B. Luigi's fsmash comes out quick and has ridiculously high knock back. And I find that Luigi is really hard to gimp with that green missile. However, he has lots of punishable attacks like his up B, his dash attack, and his green missile.
I think some guy posted here that if you hit Luigi's shield with Falcon's fsmash, Luigi goes sliding far. . .
I think some guy posted here that if you hit Luigi's shield with Falcon's fsmash, Luigi goes sliding far. . .
Scipion121212
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2009
- Messages
- 99
I believe if we sweetspot knee on him, but he shields it (not powershield) he will slide too far to sweetspot UpB as well. Luigi always slides absurd distance when his shield is hitted with something stronger (unless powershielded, of course, then you will eat one nice UpB)
Sovereign
Game Reaper
Yeah, my brother mains Luigi, and plays him on an pro level. It's nothing but a waiting game for Falcon, since he can't approach Luigi at all. Then again, if you don't approach, you eat fireballz(yum).
My suggestion: Jab Cancel, Rapid-Fire Jab(hold A), and use quick, lagless aerials.
Rapid-Fire Jab has enough priority to stop Luigi's Cyclone on the spot, and you can start up and go into a Gentleman.
Quick aerials like: Bair, Uair, Nair (in order of preference) can strike and give you the hit & run effect you desire, just watch for Luigi's Nair, Bair, and Dair.
And be cautious of the dreaded Utilt lock... ugh, and space with your own Utilt, against Green Missile, and his recovery in general.
My suggestion: Jab Cancel, Rapid-Fire Jab(hold A), and use quick, lagless aerials.
Rapid-Fire Jab has enough priority to stop Luigi's Cyclone on the spot, and you can start up and go into a Gentleman.
Quick aerials like: Bair, Uair, Nair (in order of preference) can strike and give you the hit & run effect you desire, just watch for Luigi's Nair, Bair, and Dair.
And be cautious of the dreaded Utilt lock... ugh, and space with your own Utilt, against Green Missile, and his recovery in general.
blipped moon
Smash Apprentice
This is all a discrace.
I play falcon alot, i use to main D3 but now falcon, preety much the only Falcon mian in the uk. Why? mainly for the lolz but i generally think he is better charecter than most people have him down for.
I think it's because alot of falcon players use the excuse he's low tier when they lose.
This can not go on, time for a falcon revolution.
Falcon has alot better ratios than people give him credit for.
1) we dont have a negative ratio against gannon. you all know that.
2) Ratios against MK and Falcon are not THAT bad. They should be negative but MK should be 65/35 and falcon the same.
Picking falcon in itself is now a mind game. Your entire stradgery is not combos liek in melee but mind game after game.
I play falcon alot, i use to main D3 but now falcon, preety much the only Falcon mian in the uk. Why? mainly for the lolz but i generally think he is better charecter than most people have him down for.
I think it's because alot of falcon players use the excuse he's low tier when they lose.
This can not go on, time for a falcon revolution.
Falcon has alot better ratios than people give him credit for.
1) we dont have a negative ratio against gannon. you all know that.
2) Ratios against MK and Falcon are not THAT bad. They should be negative but MK should be 65/35 and falcon the same.
Picking falcon in itself is now a mind game. Your entire stradgery is not combos liek in melee but mind game after game.
The Phazon Assassin
Smash Champion
I wish I could get legitimate Falcon practice against more than, like, three characters. Whenever I pick Falcon, especially in 1v1's, my friends always pick their not-mains, a.k.a., "sucky" characters. I could tell you about ZSS, Yoshi, and Zelda, but that's all.
Without any experience in this match-up whatsoever, I'm going to say.......35-65. Just don't be stupid and eat an Up-B.
Without any experience in this match-up whatsoever, I'm going to say.......35-65. Just don't be stupid and eat an Up-B.
FAILchion-
OH HE'S SO PRINGLES
blipped your post had more ignorance than i thought was possible
and ive been trolling for over 15 years
luigi should be at least 75-25 or 80-20
a good luigi will **** your **** up
biglou three stocked me and he had less than 100%
._____________.
and i wasnt really playing bad, not my best and i had no idea how to play the matchup but..
<_<
and ive been trolling for over 15 years
luigi should be at least 75-25 or 80-20
a good luigi will **** your **** up
biglou three stocked me and he had less than 100%
._____________.
and i wasnt really playing bad, not my best and i had no idea how to play the matchup but..
<_<
talkingbeatles
Smash Ace
Yeah, I'm with P-3 here. And maybe everyone else as well? I mentioned it before, this is a terrible match up for Falcon. You have to be on your game. You can't really jab the fireballs away, because they go slow enough that if you do, Luigi can hit you with a tornado right after you jab. That down b is quick, I'm telling ya.
Luigi will **** you in the air, as well. He can juggle Falcon like it ain't no thing. Beware a Luigi that reads you well. The worst thing about this guy is how floaty and slide-y he is. You block a smash and want to punish? He's slid away. You try to shield grab sloppy aerials? He'll be out of range. It's an awful fight.
Punish him with a running a at the end of his tornado, and you can get something good off if he ****s up a up b. His recoveries are all pretty hard to deal with. The tornado being the worst, I believe.
75-25. Luigi.
Luigi will **** you in the air, as well. He can juggle Falcon like it ain't no thing. Beware a Luigi that reads you well. The worst thing about this guy is how floaty and slide-y he is. You block a smash and want to punish? He's slid away. You try to shield grab sloppy aerials? He'll be out of range. It's an awful fight.
Punish him with a running a at the end of his tornado, and you can get something good off if he ****s up a up b. His recoveries are all pretty hard to deal with. The tornado being the worst, I believe.
75-25. Luigi.
Noodlehead
Smash Lord
IMO none of falcon's match ups are 20-80. the worst match up is mk which should be 25-75. luigi is just not on the level of snake,olimar, falco, ect
40-60 or 35-65
40-60 or 35-65
talkingbeatles
Smash Ace
^Feel free to back that notion up with something.
Sovereign
Game Reaper
Dude, Luigi will whoop Falcon's tall, partially heavy ***. Utilt lock will give any knowledgeable Luigi player a free 30%-40% per stock, depending on DI.
Luigi's Cyclone has outrageous priority, but it can be stopped in it's tracks with a jab. Simply hold A. Don't every finish your jab combo on him, always go for a Gentleman.
If you are ever in an air fight with him, use Uair.
I'm going in circles, since my last post, so I'll post my ratio, and I believe that it's 20:80 Luigi.
Luigi is actually harder than Meta Knight due to his extreme knockback on his Fsmash, and then he's heavier, with just as good of a recovery. Meta Knight is lighter, but swift, and can be punished if a mistake is made, whereas punishing Luigi is much harder. If I were to do ratios for MK and Captain Falcon it would be 30 or 35 : 60 or 65.
Luigi's Cyclone has outrageous priority, but it can be stopped in it's tracks with a jab. Simply hold A. Don't every finish your jab combo on him, always go for a Gentleman.
If you are ever in an air fight with him, use Uair.
I'm going in circles, since my last post, so I'll post my ratio, and I believe that it's 20:80 Luigi.
Luigi is actually harder than Meta Knight due to his extreme knockback on his Fsmash, and then he's heavier, with just as good of a recovery. Meta Knight is lighter, but swift, and can be punished if a mistake is made, whereas punishing Luigi is much harder. If I were to do ratios for MK and Captain Falcon it would be 30 or 35 : 60 or 65.
Noodlehead
Smash Lord
well, i guess not many. everyone seems to disagree with me, i must be wrong lol
talkingbeatles
Smash Ace
It's cool man. I've just played against a lot of good Luigi's. I was playing against Luigi's in Melee. I can't escape him!
Anyway yeah... It's a tough ****in' match. I'm still going with 25-75 though. If everybody who thinks they know the match up wants to throw out some ratio of some sort, I'll average them and we can move on.
...if everyone wants too.
Anyway yeah... It's a tough ****in' match. I'm still going with 25-75 though. If everybody who thinks they know the match up wants to throw out some ratio of some sort, I'll average them and we can move on.
...if everyone wants too.
kamimari36
Smash Apprentice
I realized a fatal mistake when I played my friends Weegee.
DON'T MISS Jab>grab.
I felt like such a ****** when he was out of range, and he walked forward and Up-B'd me.
I agree with 25-75, beatles.
DON'T MISS Jab>grab.
I felt like such a ****** when he was out of range, and he walked forward and Up-B'd me.
I agree with 25-75, beatles.
Wogrim
Smash Lord
Luigi stuff:
UTilt: avoid being close enough for him to use this on you
FAir: ugh, shield a lot or roll, don't do any obvious aerial approaches
DAir: not sure what's the best way to deal with this, probably just roll away and don't let him get above you, Falcon Dive if he doesn't come from straight above
NAir: be careful about pseudo combos because this is good at breaking them
Fireballs: don't let them bug you, they're like a terrible version of Falco's lazer, and since he's not as fast as Falco either he's not very good at camping (just approach carefully)
Up-B: pretty much, don't let him get close enough to do this out of shield or spotdodge
Recovery: his up-B is terrible, his side-b is very interceptable, and he's very vulnerable at the end of his down-b (although hard to hit with anything but Falcon Dive)
The most important thing is not doing anything that will get you up-B'd or aerialed all over the place.
I don't think he could be any harder than 35-65
UTilt: avoid being close enough for him to use this on you
FAir: ugh, shield a lot or roll, don't do any obvious aerial approaches
DAir: not sure what's the best way to deal with this, probably just roll away and don't let him get above you, Falcon Dive if he doesn't come from straight above
NAir: be careful about pseudo combos because this is good at breaking them
Fireballs: don't let them bug you, they're like a terrible version of Falco's lazer, and since he's not as fast as Falco either he's not very good at camping (just approach carefully)
Up-B: pretty much, don't let him get close enough to do this out of shield or spotdodge
Recovery: his up-B is terrible, his side-b is very interceptable, and he's very vulnerable at the end of his down-b (although hard to hit with anything but Falcon Dive)
The most important thing is not doing anything that will get you up-B'd or aerialed all over the place.
I don't think he could be any harder than 35-65
†Slader7†
Smash Ace
So what do you guys think is Luigi's primary killer for Falcon?
Sovereign
Game Reaper
I ditto this.
Like I said, the ratio is 20-70 Luigi's favor. Captain's size is way too easy for Luigi to combo into, and on top of that Captain's recovery is easily gimped.
35-65 is Captain's ratio to MK, which is in MK's favor, since Captain has a guaranteed grab release buffered Usmash combo.