The Never Ending List of Toon's AT's and Tricks / The Data Dump / Song of Brainstorms

[TLMSheikant]

It depends...I think the bair DJ dair is the one that lets u survive the most...but it also takes away ur second jump so its risky and should be used only when u KNOW u will get KO'd. Bair dair (without DJ) is great for surviving vertically.

 

[Sosuke]

I don't think it makes you live longer, but it does let you recover high. Which is good because TL can't normally do that.

 

[Shadow Moth]

Personally I love the ledge so I like to recover low.

Or should I say: "Personally, I prefer the ledge."

> LOL terrible joke >

 

[demonictoonlink]

You should not

 

[Sosuke]

You get spiked/gimped easier recovering low.

 

[CaliburChamp]

B-air to Up-air while fast falling seems to keep me living long. I read somewhere that double jumping while DI-ing actually hurts more than hurts, and fast falling with your fastest aerial move can help avoid that early KO.

 

[Shadow Moth]

B-air to Up-air while fast falling seems to keep me living long. I read somewhere that double jumping while DI-ing actually hurts more than hurts, and fast falling with your fastest aerial move can help avoid that early KO.

I'm going to assume for the sake of logic that you meant helps right there.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Ok,

Jungle Japes does have a platform you can go through, so it works there. ;D

Just wanted to point it out.

Cheers mate, I must've missed that one. I'll fix that in a sec and make sure I haven't made the same mistake somewhere else (sometimes I just copy paste if the same requirements need to be met, if you know what I mean...)

Well I did some testing and by dropping a bomb in front of the opponent and fast falling down behind where they were (ideally under where they are in the air after the bomb) you can utilt them for a true two-hit combo up to 92%.

Are you talking about something similar to the 100% working spike? I think Hyro demonstrated this particular variation in one of his videos. (although I could be mistaken).

Add Bair to DJ to Dair DI to the list.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvndKqyTqbU

Yeah I spose I could. In a way it's already there in the form of the Dair Stall. The only difference is the added Bair at the start. Like Sasuke said, It doesn't help you live longer (like a brake) but it does let you recover higher, I mean sure you don't have your double jump but just pull out a Bomb, fast fall down, and if they try to hit you, simply Invincibomb and you're sweet! I think I will add it anyway, I can't hurt and we already have a vid.
I'll add it in a sec.

And I think thats it.... I'll go do a small update. The Massive update should be happening in a couple of days (hopefully).

 

[Shadow Moth]

Well it is similar to the 100% spike but this is with a utilt and you can do much more out of a utilt than a bair. It's not quite the same though because it stops working at 92% I think.

BTW I still need help testing this on each character at least. If everyone could do one or two characters that would be great.

But if you do make sure you post which character(s) you're doing so we don't have wasted effort. I'm going to double check everything so don't worry if you think you might be a little off but aren't quite sure. However I will need someone to double check the max percent on Mario since I can't double check my own work.

BTW if Mario's stops working at 92% there's no reason to start low.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Ok cool, I am of course willing to help. But you'll have to wait a few days and then I'm free for a while.
Ok, so just so it's 100% clear on how to do this (before we have people going off and testing the wrong thing)
Is this how you do it.....

How to Perform: Pull out a Bomb, Run towards you're opponent, Jump, Z-drop the Bomb in front of them on the way up, Fast fall down on their other side, Up-tilt.

Is that right? Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
Oh yeah, I finished the small update which includes the fixed error, the Dair Recovery Stall (name pending) and the Video for it.

Edit: Oh yeah, I forgot to ask before, Hyro, what did you want to call the AT? Atm it's just Dair Recovery Stall, for lack of something better, but it's yours to name. Just let me know.

 

[Shadow Moth]

Yeah. That's fine, Fox.

I'm gonna go ahead and do DK, Link, and Samus/ZSS sometime today.

 

[CaliburChamp]

I'm going to assume for the sake of logic that you meant helps right there.

No, I meant double jumping doesn't stop your knockback momentum, but fast falling with your fastest aerial does.

This video explains it, and it's a must watch for learning how to DI.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njcYW0rFmUg

Quoted from the Creator of the video: "Cancelling hitstun will also allow you to use a Jump or Special to fight against knockback -- but there's a catch! Using a Jump or Special in knockback gives you an extra boost AWAY from the stage -- a sudden extra surge of knockback. This is a penalty for trying to cheat the recovery system..... but it doesn't fully work. Most of the time, a midair jump is worth the penalty for using it, and some characters have Specials that also work well enough: Sonic's side-B and down-B (thanks da KID!), Pikachu's side-B, and I'm sure there are others."

 

[Shadow Moth]

I meant that you meant helps where I bolded it. "Hurts more than hurts" is what you put and that doesn't make any sense.

BTW I finished testing DK. He goes all the way to 97% for bomb drop>FF utilt.

98% is a glancing blow

so close.

Well on to Link.

BTW Fox these percents will probably matter so it's a good idea to make sure they stand out.

 

[CaliburChamp]

It HURTS more than it helps when you DOUBLE JUMP as your still flying from the knockback. It gives you an extra boost of knock back, like that video I linked you proves it.

Not for all double jumps, like Peach and her floating double jump, that helps instead of hurts.

 

[WindMajor]

I've already started testing the bomb thing (do you have a name yet?) on Falco. It's really interesting might I add. For Falco, it stops working at 112% with a normal Up Tilt, however, at 112% you can get a kill with a lone Up Smash (assuming they don't DI) in Final Destination.

I tried it on DDD, but he's too fat. I couldn't get it to work without hitting myself.

 

[Shadow Moth]

I don't have a name yet but I'm thinking of a good one. (the Shadow tilt maybe)

Thanks for testing that, BTW. I just finished Link. He goes to 105%.

BTW I've discovered two things in the past two days that build on this (kept forgetting to post them).

1) Upsmash. It sends you sliding, hits a bit higher, and stalls a little longer but it still counts as a true combo in training mode.

2) uair. If you do a full jump you can uair the opponent. Haven't tested this yet but I do it occasionally by accident and it looks like it can combo at much higher percents than either utilt or Upsmash.

 

[Sosuke]

Please don't name stuff after yourself. It's really dumb.
Name it something that makes sense.

 

[Shadow Moth]

Please don't name stuff after yourself. It's really dumb.
Name it something that makes sense.

Well I used that part of my name because it's sorta like you're shadowing the opponent since you hit them into the air with a bomb and then you have to shadow them so you end up under them...

But that was really just an idea. I'm still thinking.

Finished Samus BTW. ._.

I'm REALLY gonna want someone to check this one. I'm pretty sure it's right since I got a glancing blow at 1% over the max but I got 71%.

...

Edit: ZSS is a rather normal 93%

Rather interesting to note that this works past Usmash killing percent and like I said: We can hyphen out of the bomb drop for a true combo. So we pretty much have an assured kill on ZSS here.

Speaking of which, anyone who feels creative today: Would you mind testing a few of TL's moves to see if we can combo into this?


Edit2: I tested Kirby. He can go up to 79%. But he's really difficult to do because of his weight. Samus was pretty difficult as well.

 

[D.white]

I still dont really ge how to do the pivot walk. The bomb section helped me boost up my game. Thx =D

 

[CaliburChamp]

I wish the bombs didn't blow up on impact from a drop. I remember Melee Link used to be able to shield with bomb, short hop, Z bomb drop, D-air.

And my question for you Shadowth...
How do you make TL fall faster than the bomb to make him do a Z bomb drop to up-tilt? Fast falling doesn't seem to beat the speed of the falling bomb.

 

[Shadow Moth]

You don't beat the bomb to the ground. They are pushed up over you.

It doesn't look like it'll work if you see it but training mode says it's a true combo.


Also I'm having trouble finishing the testing for Fox for some reason. I got to 100% but I couldn't get 101% to work even though it looks like it should (actually it's more like I just couldn't get the whole thing off properly.

BTW Fox's minimum % is 23. Weird huh?

 

[Sosuke]

Training mode "true combos" aren't really true combos.

 

[demonictoonlink]

Eh...They're close enough. Bair>Bair is never really a "true" combo, but it mostly works at the right percentages.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

How do you make TL fall faster than the bomb to make him do a Z bomb drop to up-tilt? Fast falling doesn't seem to beat the speed of the falling bomb.

I'll try explain again. You Z-drop the Bomb, on your way up, so the Bomb slowly falls down and lands infront of them, they get hit by the blast of the Bomb (not the Bomb itself) and by the time they get hit upwards, you have Fastfalled down the other side of you opponent in time to hit them with an Utilt. If your still unsure, have a look at the Video of the 100% Working Spike, It's in one of H_R's recaps, because it uses the same Z-drop on the way up idea.


Ok I'm gonna start on the Big update, it might take more then one go to finish.

 

[Shadow Moth]

Training mode "true combos" aren't really true combos.

Well then do bomb drop to uair. I know that's a true combo. >_>

 

[demonictoonlink]

Fair warning. I'm making a mix-up thread. If anyone is truly opposed, PM me.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Oh good, I can add more stuff to this when your done then. (still updating)

 

[Shadow Moth]

Fair warning. I'm making a mix-up thread. If anyone is truly opposed, PM me.

Well... Our old projectiles thread was sorta that. I think it's good that this one has a clear focus.

I'm considering making a move discussion thread but I'm gonna wait a while.

 

[demonictoonlink]

That sound good. Also, thread is up. Still adding stuff though.

 

[Shadow Moth]

That sound good. Also, thread is up. Still adding stuff though.

What does? The moves thread?

 

[demonictoonlink]

Yes, the moves thread.

 

[Shadow Moth]

I'll take care of that by the end of the week.

 

[demonictoonlink]

YAY!!! I feel like our board is picking up again ^^

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Ok... It took forever, but I have made a start on the Mix ups/combinations section.
This includes fixing the name of the thread, adding headings and stuff to the Index, adding actual headings and so on underneath the AT videos section, copy and pasting all AT's and Tricks that I reckon are also mix ups/combos and adding heaps of new combo's and stuff off the top of my head and a few that I liked in DTL's new thread (great thread btw!).

I'm done for now. (feedback time)

Things that still need to be done:
I need to find a picture that is relevant and/or funny.
I need to search through old threads to find more stuffs.
I'll gladly add new combo's/mix ups that you tell me about.
And thats about it.

Thanks for waiting!

Check it out and let me know what you're thinking. (polite criticism will be gladly appreciated)

 

[WindMajor]

I think the move discussion should fall under Sasuke's guide, don't you think?

Other than that, have you tried out doing the bomb drop to a dair? It looks soooo epic, yet punishable. STILL! IT'S EPIC!!!!11

 

[Shadow Moth]

No.

Sasuke's guide is just a stock pile of the info gathered in the various threads.

And yes I have done the bomb drop dair. I'm going to experiment a little today for ways to lead into bomb drop combos.

 

[Sosuke]

someone did a move discussion a while ago (don't remember who atm [barge??] ), but we can use that one as reference for when we start a new one.

 

[demonictoonlink]

That was too long ago. We will need to start again.

 

[Sosuke]

Did you even read what I wrote?

 

[demonictoonlink]

Yes. I may have misread it though...It could mean a few things...
I read it as we start on the same move they left off on. You may have meant format...?