The Never Ending List of Toon's AT's and Tricks / The Data Dump / Song of Brainstorms

[Kaffei]

It's more that we want to know how it happened so it never happens again and just for the heck of knowing XD.


Oh and Kaffei, I think you'll find you caught a Bomb with Dair without noticing. Never the less, I'll give it a quick test later on just to be sure.

I swearrrrrr to god there was no bomb in my hand. I was fooling around at temple, jumped into the air and daired. boom.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Boom? As in, you exploded? Are you even sure it was your bomb? Was anyone else playing? (Jeez I swear I do this everytime XD.) I'll put it this way,

If anyone ever wants me to test anything, you will need either a vid, or a really detailed explaination including, but not limited to, everything that happened before during and after, stage, character, training or brawl, other characters, control sheme, the temperature outside, average height of everyone who was in the house at the time, were you in a house? You know, details. Lots of details.

 

[WindMajor]

Boom? As in, you exploded? Are you even sure it was your bomb? Was anyone else playing? (Jeez I swear I do this everytime XD.)

Don't worry. This is typical Fox speaking to us, and I don't think anyone hates typical Fox (yet... xD).

But yes, we must have videos everytime we do this. I seriously see no way that a dair can trigger a bomb to spawn out of nowhere.

This ain't Gameshark.

 

[Kaffei]

Boom? As in, you exploded? Are you even sure it was your bomb? Was anyone else playing? (Jeez I swear I do this everytime XD.) I'll put it this way,

If anyone ever wants me to test anything, you will need either a vid, or a really detailed explaination including, but not limited to, everything that happened before during and after, stage, character, training or brawl, other characters, control sheme, the temperature outside, average height of everyone who was in the house at the time, were you in a house? You know, details. Lots of details.

boom as in there was a circular blue thing in TL's hand. lol. yes someone else was playing too but he was on the other side.

Jumped off the top platform of temple, daired onto the stair case, tada a bomb. Raining outside like 60 degrees, brawl, wifi -lol-, average height is 5'5 i was in a house my controller is GC black rofl

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

XD lmao. You guys rule. Typical Fox XD. You guys know I joke like that all the time right? Well anyway, I had fun.

Ok so now you're talking to serious Fox, not typical Fox (what do you think of the serious Fox picture in the second post btw. I couldn't stop laughing first time I saw it.). So what I'm thinking is, of course Dair cannot simply spawn a Bomb. That's just impossible. So you either caught one without noticing, which we've already been over, or....... well this is where things get interesting.
First of all, as some of you may remember, the animation/lag of Toon pulling out the sword from the ground (from a Dair) can actually be interupted by catching a returning boomerang. So what does this mean? Well I spose it means that the animation of Toon pulling out the sword is unique because pretty much every other action will be completely unaffected by the returning boomerang. Unique means strange things are possible, which is good.
So, keeping in mind that this is all theory here (you gotta love stuff like this), the only other things that will recieve lag from a returning boomerang is things like standing, walking, Dashing, jumping and so on. But what all these things have in common is that at any moment during these actions, you can pull out a Bomb. (See where I'm going with this)
So is it theoretically (spell check plz XD) possible to pull out a Bomb while Toon is in the Pulling out the sword animation? Unlikely, but worth a shot.

I dunno, the Dair is weird. It's done stranger things before, but using it to pull out a Bomb is bizzar. Well needless to say, I'll give it a shot. But for now, we'll have to presume that you simply caught a Bomb with Dair without noticing.

(Then again, raining outside, 60 degrees could have affected it XD)

Edit: Second thoughts, there's no way this could have happened. Just forget about that ^.

 

[WindMajor]

XD lmao. You guys rule. Typical Fox XD. You guys know I joke like that all the time right? Well anyway, I had fun.

Ok so now you're talking to serious Fox, not typical Fox (what do you think of the serious Fox picture in the second post btw. I couldn't stop laughing first time I saw it.). So what I'm thinking is, of course Dair cannot simply spawn a Bomb. That's just impossible. So you either caught one without noticing, which we've already been over, or....... well this is where things get interesting.
First of all, as some of you may remember, the animation/lag of Toon pulling out the sword from the ground (from a Dair) can actually be interupted by catching a returning boomerang. So what does this mean? Well I spose it means that the animation of Toon pulling out the sword is unique because pretty much every other action will be completely unaffected by the returning boomerang. Unique means strange things are possible, which is good.
So, keeping in mind that this is all theory here (you gotta love stuff like this), the only other things that will recieve lag from a returning boomerang is things like standing, walking, Dashing, jumping and so on. But what all these things have in common is that at any moment during these actions, you can pull out a Bomb. (See where I'm going with this)
So is it theoretically (spell check plz XD) possible to pull out a Bomb while Toon is in the Pulling out the sword animation? Unlikely, but worth a shot.

I dunno, the Dair is weird. It's done stranger things before, but using it to pull out a Bomb is bizzar. Well needless to say, I'll give it a shot. But for now, we'll have to presume that you simply caught a Bomb with Dair without noticing.

(Then again, raining outside, 60 degrees could have affected it XD)

Edit: Second thoughts, there's no way this could have happened. Just forget about that ^.

I think srs fox eated typical fox. *gasp!*
but den he spitted him back out. O_O


But yeah, normally I would test these things out immediately after I read them, but it's late... and the whole idea just sounds bizarre and flat out impossible. I think I'll just wait until morning.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Ok so just as I thought, my idea was bogus. Yeah I checked it out anyway, got bored, and found something I.... did not expect. (srs fox didn't eat typical fox. They both live in harmony in my head, kinda like a split personality only not in a possesed way.)
But yeah, I found something pretty fun. I was thinking about that whole Boomerang interupting the Dair thing and I came up with the Dair Glide. It's kinda like the Boomerang glide, only in some ways better. So what you do is, you throw a Boomerang out, stand on a slanted surface (slope) near the edge, and at the right time you Jump then Instantly Dair. So what happens is, the Dair slides down the slope and normally you will lose your momentum when you reach the edge. But if timed right, the Boomerang will interupt the Dair, you will keep your momentum and glide off the edge.

This is better then a Boomerang glide because:
You can glide off backwards or forwards
You can use any move you want, not just the Boomerang
You regain control faster. In other words, you can do anything much sooner then the Boomerang glide.
You get flung further.

This isn't better then the Boomerang glide because:
It takes longer to set up
It's level specific.

Now, the levels. Try it on the right side of the ship in Rainbow Ride. Both sides of PictoChat and Yoshi's Island Brawl. Other places....... Yoshi's Island Melee, Temple, don't care haven't tested every single level yet. The effect actually has everything to do with the timing and how steep the slope is. For example, on Yoshi's Brawl, you will glide diagonally down but on Rainbow Ride and PictoChat, you will get flung more horizontal. Anyway, play around with it and you'll see what I mean. Also, this can be used on steep platforms as well, just as long as you're near the edge of the platform.

So it's, throw the Boomerang in any direction, SH then Instantly use Dair at the right time near the edge on a steep surface and have the Boomerang interupt the Dair at the right time. Heaps of fun.


That's all for now.

PS: I won't be posting for a while because I want to leave my post count on 666. No I'm not evil. Seeya for a little while.

 

[copacetic]

alright so I just ledge cancelled a dair, has anyone figured out how to do that before?

I was on the right side of BF, facing right, and I was between the top platform and middle one for height. I was on the left side of the right platform and daired. It came out, I shot down a little bit as normal, but I hit the exact edge of the platform, and began to just fall normally after that. there was no ending animation, I just continued on and actually baired once before I hit the ground.

Too long a vid to save, and it was in-tournament so I couldn't just quit out. I think I'd been hit by a tornado, then did my second jump out of it so I had my momentum under my control. I was at like 70%. I was in the blue outfit. It was sunny out, but had just rained.

 

[WindMajor]

I'm sure this is already known, but it's not in the list, but you can JC an USmash.

In the list, it says you can Pivot a JC Usmash, but it doesn't say you can just do a JC Usmash.

And also, if you JC Usmash with A+Up, you can charge your Usmash, meaning that it gives the same effect as a DACUS, only it's easier to do (for me at least, since I have Jump set to R).

 

[Kaffei]

Edit: Second thoughts, there's no way this could have happened. Just forget about that ^.

I lol'd .

 

[Corpsecreate]

alright so I just ledge cancelled a dair, has anyone figured out how to do that before?

I was on the right side of BF, facing right, and I was between the top platform and middle one for height. I was on the left side of the right platform and daired. It came out, I shot down a little bit as normal, but I hit the exact edge of the platform, and began to just fall normally after that. there was no ending animation, I just continued on and actually baired once before I hit the ground.

Too long a vid to save, and it was in-tournament so I couldn't just quit out. I think I'd been hit by a tornado, then did my second jump out of it so I had my momentum under my control. I was at like 70%. I was in the blue outfit. It was sunny out, but had just rained.

Sounds like an Autocanceled Dair to me.

 

[TLMSheikant]

Hmm, that can be done in melee with platforms. But u had to have momentum while doing dair and touch the edge of the platform to cancel it. How will u get momentum for the dair to platform cancel in brawl? It goes in a straight arc.

 

[Sosuke]

Where was MK?

Was he shielding near you?

 

[copacetic]

The MK was on the left side, under the platform. He wasn't close enough to affect anything really.

I wish I could've saved it, this could be a really useful tech. I am definitely sure that the dair came out, but I may have been very close to the ledge when it did. The MK was a scrub, so I didn't really pay attention the rest of the match and tried to remember exactly what happened.

 

[Sosuke]

If he was shielding under the platform or clanked an attack with your Dair, it makes all the difference.

 

[copacetic]

he was definitely not close enough to interact with me. I had enough time to get the bair off before he got to me. I think he retreated his tornado after i jumped out.

and bombs weren't involved

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Ok I'm done with the 666 thing, I've had my fun with it.

Right then, the Canceled Dair thing. First of all can I just say that I was very impressed with the explaination. Quite clear. Unfortunatelly, after testing a few things, I still haven't been able to re-create what happened (which is becoming a pattern lately that I'm not happy with myself about.)

So a few questions. Was the boomerang invloved? It seems obvious, and I'm expecting the answer to be no, but it had to be asked because the boomerang is the only thing other then Bombs, slanted platforms and momentum that affect the Dair, and these things have, to some extent, been ruled out.
Another thing is, you said that you were able to Bair before you touched the ground which was a big hint because you obviously weren't planning on canceling your Dair then Bairing. So were you just mashing? How did you Bair? With the c-stick or normally? If the c-stick was involved, then this could be importaint.

Things I've tested:
I've tried to find a spot on the edge of the platform where this might occur by slowly moving towards the spot where Dair lands on the platform. I've repeated this over and over again, always in that spot, hoping that I might hit that exact part that would allow this to happen. But even though I did this for a long period of time on various occasions and speeds, I couldn't find the sweet spot.
I tried altering my tragectory even slightly while in the Dair. But no matter what I tried, the Dair ALWAYS goes directly straight down (Unless of course momentum is invloved).
I figured, you may have been mashing the c-stick and joystick back the other way and maybe if you landed right on the edge of the platform, it might slip off. Unfortunatelly it didn't.
Other variations of the above were tried, with no such luck.

So I'm thinking, we have to be missing something. If you say the boomerang wasn't involved (which for now I shall presume) then as I said before, it leaves only a Bomb, slanted platform and momentum. The Bomb we can be sure of, because you would have noticed the boom. The slanted platform we can be sure of, because it's Battlefield (duh). But the momentum we cannot be entirely sure of. Even though you said, your momentum was under control because you double jumped out of the tornado, how can you be sure that you weren't going down slightly slower when you only went from inbetween the top and side platform to the edge of the side platform? That's not that far. Also, the Double jump doesn't completely stop momentum, just look at the Dair stall (Double Jump out of momentum then Instantly Dair. You go up and stay up for a bit).

If you still had a bit of momentum, then the properties of the Dair would be very different. For example, the Dair can go slower, with the Dair stall you can move left or right while in the Dair, and when you hit an opponent you don't pogo instead you continue to go down. My opinion, momentum affected the Dair in some way, and this allowed you to cancel it..... some how.

I'll keep trying to test it, the only problem is it's very hard to Dair in a precise location over and over again to try different things every time.

Any other thoughts?

Edit: OMG!!! This is the 777 post!!!! I went form 666 to 777! XD

 

[SuperNovaLogia]

ok so i was thinking about the bcd, and i was wondering if you timed it right(me personally still need to practice bcd bcuz i cant do it yet) if you could pull out a bomb, throw it up, tilt or all the way up, doesnt matter, and then pull out another bomb, and time it right so you do bcd but instead with 2 bombs hitting at the exact same time. im not sure it would do anything especially for how hard it sounds, idk. also i wonder if you experimented with the boomerang with bcd, for example jump and throw the boomerang toward the center of the stage, then pull out a bomb and do bcd as the boomerang hits them while doing bcd. also the other direction for the boomerang as well, accept you aim it low so that when you bcd and the opponent flys out, either during or after the set knockback occurs, it hits them, im not sure if that would do anything but do some percentage on them, just a couple thoughts.

 

[WindMajor]

So you're saying that we can use the boomerang to knock an enemy into a BCD?

That sounds sick. xD

But it also sounds really difficult to pull off.

 

[SuperNovaLogia]

yeah, and its probably bound to happen anyways with enough practice, i would try those things out, but im still workin on bcd.

 

[WindMajor]

Fox I think I discovered something interesting, but mostly useless. And I have it on vid.

Since I'm talking to srs fox, i need to give him srs detailz.
Final Destination
One roll's distance to the right from center
Purple Toon Link
Default Marf
TL facing right
Marf facing left
Really cold out, December snow just blew in.
6'7'' in height

Anyways, basically I did either a Fox Trot or a Dash and stop in front of Marth, then I Dsmashed. The second hit didn't connect, and Marth went straight to the floor behind me.

I think I dashed, and I stopped VERY CLOSE in front of him. Like, touching, but touching just enough so that I don't go through him. After I stopped moving, I hit C-stick down just in time so that it wouldn't register as a Dash Attack.

Interesting thing was that Marth had pretty high damage. I'd say around 90%+, but I honestly don't remember. I'll have to check the replay.

Don't go too typical fox on me. :S

 

[copacetic]

ok so i was thinking about the bcd, and i was wondering if you timed it right(me personally still need to practice bcd bcuz i cant do it yet) if you could pull out a bomb, throw it up, tilt or all the way up, doesnt matter, and then pull out another bomb, and time it right so you do bcd but instead with 2 bombs hitting at the exact same time. im not sure it would do anything especially for how hard it sounds, idk. also i wonder if you experimented with the boomerang with bcd, for example jump and throw the boomerang toward the center of the stage, then pull out a bomb and do bcd as the boomerang hits them while doing bcd. also the other direction for the boomerang as well, accept you aim it low so that when you bcd and the opponent flys out, either during or after the set knockback occurs, it hits them, im not sure if that would do anything but do some percentage on them, just a couple thoughts.

The problem with the bcd is that the opponent pretty much has to be on the ground, since at a certain height the first hit of downsmash knocks them up instead of gimping, and most time the boomerang would knock the opponent into the air slightly, not just slide them along the ground.

Also since we're hitting ourselves with the bomb and not the opponent, the only difference in using two bombs would be to cause us more damage. Though for the failed flame bcd, it might have a somewhat cool effect. Extremely situational though

Ok I'm done with the 666 thing, I've had my fun with it.

Right then, the Canceled Dair thing. First of all can I just say that I was very impressed with the explaination. Quite clear. Unfortunatelly, after testing a few things, I still haven't been able to re-create what happened (which is becoming a pattern lately that I'm not happy with myself about.)

So a few questions. Was the boomerang invloved? It seems obvious, and I'm expecting the answer to be no, but it had to be asked because the boomerang is the only thing other then Bombs, slanted platforms and momentum that affect the Dair, and these things have, to some extent, been ruled out.
Another thing is, you said that you were able to Bair before you touched the ground which was a big hint because you obviously weren't planning on canceling your Dair then Bairing. So were you just mashing? How did you Bair? With the c-stick or normally? If the c-stick was involved, then this could be importaint.

Things I've tested:
I've tried to find a spot on the edge of the platform where this might occur by slowly moving towards the spot where Dair lands on the platform. I've repeated this over and over again, always in that spot, hoping that I might hit that exact part that would allow this to happen. But even though I did this for a long period of time on various occasions and speeds, I couldn't find the sweet spot.
I tried altering my tragectory even slightly while in the Dair. But no matter what I tried, the Dair ALWAYS goes directly straight down (Unless of course momentum is invloved).
I figured, you may have been mashing the c-stick and joystick back the other way and maybe if you landed right on the edge of the platform, it might slip off. Unfortunatelly it didn't.
Other variations of the above were tried, with no such luck.

So I'm thinking, we have to be missing something. If you say the boomerang wasn't involved (which for now I shall presume) then as I said before, it leaves only a Bomb, slanted platform and momentum. The Bomb we can be sure of, because you would have noticed the boom. The slanted platform we can be sure of, because it's Battlefield (duh). But the momentum we cannot be entirely sure of. Even though you said, your momentum was under control because you double jumped out of the tornado, how can you be sure that you weren't going down slightly slower when you only went from inbetween the top and side platform to the edge of the side platform? That's not that far. Also, the Double jump doesn't completely stop momentum, just look at the Dair stall (Double Jump out of momentum then Instantly Dair. You go up and stay up for a bit).

If you still had a bit of momentum, then the properties of the Dair would be very different. For example, the Dair can go slower, with the Dair stall you can move left or right while in the Dair, and when you hit an opponent you don't pogo instead you continue to go down. My opinion, momentum affected the Dair in some way, and this allowed you to cancel it..... some how.

I'll keep trying to test it, the only problem is it's very hard to Dair in a precise location over and over again to try different things every time.

Any other thoughts?

Edit: OMG!!! This is the 777 post!!!! I went form 666 to 777! XD

Well there definitely wasn't a bomb. I'm almost positive there was no boomerang but it's been a few days now. Which leaves momentum. I did use dair (with c-stick) pretty quickly after the second jump, so i may still have had some momentum. I usually don't spam the c-stick though, I was actually able to notice that it canceled and react in time for the bair, though I was definitely holding left on the control stick so I think I just hit A like usual. As soon as it canceled I was already moving to the left.

I'm assuming now it was probably momentum related. However, I was hit with a pretty weak attack at not that high a percentage, which means we don't have to lose too much of our control over our momentum to do this. i.e. it can be triggered by a lot of fairly weak attacks (maybe a bomb?). I've been screwing around and trying to find a way to do it again but I haven't been able to do it.

 

[Kaffei]

fox I Think I Discovered Something Interesting, But Mostly Useless. And I Have It On Vid.

Since I'm Talking To Srs Fox, I Need To Give Him Srs Detailz.
Final Destination
One Roll's Distance To The Right From Center
Purple Toon Link
Default Marf
Tl Facing Right
Marf Facing Left
Really Cold Out, December Snow Just Blew In.
6'7'' In Height

Anyways, Basically I Did Either A Fox Trot Or A Dash And Stop In Front Of Marth, Then I Dsmashed. The Second Hit Didn't Connect, And Marth Went Straight To The Floor Behind Me.

I Think I Dashed, And I Stopped Very Close In Front Of Him. Like, Touching, But Touching Just Enough So That I Don't Go Through Him. After I Stopped Moving, I Hit C-stick Down Just In Time So That It Wouldn't Register As A Dash Attack.

Interesting Thing Was That Marth Had Pretty High Damage. I'd Say Around 90%+, But I Honestly Don't Remember. I'll Have To Check The Replay.

Don't Go Too Typical Fox On Me. :s

6'7?? Wow You Are Tall!

 

[WindMajor]

Typical Fox hasn't responded......

Should I worry? What if I have to deal with srs Fox?

:S

 

[Kaffei]

Typical Fox hasn't responded......

Should I worry? What if I have to deal with srs Fox?

:S

Don't worry maybe he's just doing sciency stuff with TL and he discovered a way to kill MK in 1 hit.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Ok people. I'm back in business. I haven't been on for a few days, and it wasn't because I found a way to kill MK in 1 hit XD. I've been very busy studying, but that's all over now (I three stocked my final exam..... On Final Destination..... Last stock was a true combo...... Yeah I'm out.) So I have like 2 months of, well nothing. Which is brilliant! I was even thinking of making like the new massive AT thread for the Tactical boards. I mean, who else? srsly.

Right then. You guys have been busy as well by the looks of things.

ok so i was thinking about the bcd, and i was wondering if you timed it right(me personally still need to practice bcd bcuz i cant do it yet) if you could pull out a bomb, throw it up, tilt or all the way up, doesnt matter, and then pull out another bomb, and time it right so you do bcd but instead with 2 bombs hitting at the exact same time. im not sure it would do anything especially for how hard it sounds, idk. also i wonder if you experimented with the boomerang with bcd, for example jump and throw the boomerang toward the center of the stage, then pull out a bomb and do bcd as the boomerang hits them while doing bcd. also the other direction for the boomerang as well, accept you aim it low so that when you bcd and the opponent flys out, either during or after the set knockback occurs, it hits them, im not sure if that would do anything but do some percentage on them, just a couple thoughts.

So keep working on the BCD man, and nice thoughts here. The BCD with two Bombs has already been answered by copacetic. As he said, it's sort of unecessary and makes it much more situational. The Boomerang being implemented with the BCD, me and Gords are already thinking of ways to use it to make our shield pressure BCD work better. So yeah, rest assured, it's being worked on, just not in the way that you were describing because as copacetic said, the Boomerang would hit them up and make the D-smash miss. But it's great that you're thinking of these things. So yeah.

Anyways, basically I did either a Fox Trot or a Dash and stop in front of Marth, then I Dsmashed. The second hit didn't connect, and Marth went straight to the floor behind me.

I think I dashed, and I stopped VERY CLOSE in front of him. Like, touching, but touching just enough so that I don't go through him. After I stopped moving, I hit C-stick down just in time so that it wouldn't register as a Dash Attack.

Interesting thing was that Marth had pretty high damage. I'd say around 90%+, but I honestly don't remember. I'll have to check the replay.

Don't go too typical fox on me. :S

But everyone loves typical Fox. Right?
Ok then, so if I was to have a guess here, I would say that the opponent DI'd/SDI'd the first hit resulting in the second one missing. It's happened to me before but unfortunatelly, it's nothing that we can control (Unless we grab their controler, but if we managed to do that, why not just walk off?). However, that said, I'll test what you were describing to see if I can make it happen without a human opponent.
I have tried similar things to what you were saying before, without any luck of the second hit missing, like I've tried using the momentum of a pivot to slide the D-smash and stuff like that, but yeah, no such luck. So I'll get back to you if I can make it work. In the mean time, you may as well post that vid or PM me the link, depending on how many views you want XD.

Well there definitely wasn't a bomb. I'm almost positive there was no boomerang but it's been a few days now. Which leaves momentum. I did use dair (with c-stick) pretty quickly after the second jump, so i may still have had some momentum. I usually don't spam the c-stick though, I was actually able to notice that it canceled and react in time for the bair, though I was definitely holding left on the control stick so I think I just hit A like usual. As soon as it canceled I was already moving to the left.

I'm assuming now it was probably momentum related. However, I was hit with a pretty weak attack at not that high a percentage, which means we don't have to lose too much of our control over our momentum to do this. i.e. it can be triggered by a lot of fairly weak attacks (maybe a bomb?). I've been screwing around and trying to find a way to do it again but I haven't been able to do it.

Definitely momentum then. (When you said, "I was actually able to notice that it canceled" and "As soon as it canceled I was already moving to the left.", what do you mean? Like, What did the cancel look like? Did he just stop Dairing?)
If we do find a way to make this work, the next step would definitely be using a Bomb to do it to ourselves. It couldn't be hard to figure out what percents to use, probably the same percents as the Safe Spike. But we'll see. First things first, it needs to be re-created. I'll keep trying every now and then as well and hopefully one of us will get it to work one day.

 

[copacetic]

I mean that I was holding left as I daired, so as soon as it ended I was started moving left. Kinda like canceling the up-b. Actually it looked very much like canceling an up-b.

But I haven't been able to recreate it. I'm gonna keep trying but it seems at the very least to be something extremely situational, since it probably only happens in a certain location with a certain damage after a certain knockback and with a certain set of commands.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Ok TWiNK. Good news, good news and bad news.
Well the good news is, during my testing, I was able to re-create what you were talking about many many times. So I was able to hit a Marth that was set on control (Which means absolutely no DI. I should have seen this coming though because you can't DI/SDI the first hit of D-smash. I don't know why I forgot that XD.) and I was able to hit him with only the first hit of D-smash. As I said, this was re-created many times. What happens is, Marth gets hit too high by the first hit so the second hit doesn't connect.

The second bit of good news is you don't need to be moving or at a specific distance. I was able to make it work on several occasions by simply standing still next to him and hitting C-stick down and this worked at any distance from right up close to the tip of D-smash. Everytime it was re-created Marth was somewhere between 90 and 110% (so giving me lots of info helped a lot XD).

Now for the bad news. I have no frigin idea how to do it every time. I had a few theories which I tested, but each of them were at some point busted. (This reminds me of Myth Busters. Great show.)
The best theory I had for a while there was that it had something to do with Marth doing the whole hair flick thing. But there were many times that it didn't work even when I'd only just done it at the exact same time not 2 seconds ago. So at this point, it's up in the air as to what causes it. I've tried doing it when Toon bobs up and when he bobs down, the same for Marth. I've tried doing it from certain distances but they all worked at some point. I've tried hitting the back and front of him but they both worked and didn't work on numerous occasions. It has worked when he has been in his normal fighting stance (not distracted) and it has worked when he has been distracted (there are two kinds of distracted, the hair flick and the cough. Both worked and didn't work at some point) And I also tested a whole bunch of other stupid ideas.

All I know is, it will work on any side of him, any stage, between 90 and 110 percent (Roughly, I mean for all I know it might be more like 92 - 123%.) any distance from him (so any part of the sword) and as for why exactly, I have no clue.

Like sometimes I got it to work five times in a row and I thought I was on to something, and then it wouldn't work again for the next 20 trys even though I was doing the same thing.

So yeah. I'm stumped. Any ideas? If we can figure this out, I don't need to tell you what this means. But I will anyway. It means that we will have a way to BCD, without a Bomb, on some characters, on certain percents, without the long start up of the BCD. It'll be like, D-smash, edge hog, dead. Could be useful. More testing and thinking needs to be done for sure, but at the moment it looks hopefull.

Edit: I also performed it on Link, Samus and Snake at about the same percents. It seems to work more often with Marth, but if we ever figure it out, it's good to keep in mind that it works on other characters as well. (No I haven't tried it on every character, but by the looks of things it works on tall thin people?)

 

[MJG]

I think you might have just hit marth with the tip of your down smash >_>

I have done this several times when trying to down smash olimar's purple pikmin and in-turn, I ended up getting olimar to fly horizontally off the stage at high percentages

Im talking about one of my crew mates..not a random olimar or a CPU

EDIT: I didn't realize that you mentioned the tip already fox >_>

 

[demonictoonlink]

Finooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

fino???

.....

But yeah, it worked at some point at all distances. So it's nothing to do with distance. Seriously guys, does anyone have any other ideas? Am I the only one who thinks that if this could be re-created consistently it would be awesome? I'll give it some more time, but it's strange that so far, no-one seems interested. Or is it that everyone else is also stumped?

Doesn't matter though, I've got other things to work on atm.

 

[Rockan]

go to like 0:33
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6mzgQkbZ_E&feature=player_embedded

 

[Hyro]

That'll always happen if your opponent is charging a smash. They're literally di'ing to their death. Me and near was playing, same situation but I was falco, died instantly. I've done it around 10 times, to marth/mk

 

[WindMajor]

I think you might have just hit marth with the tip of your down smash >_>

I have done this several times when trying to down smash olimar's purple pikmin and in-turn, I ended up getting olimar to fly horizontally off the stage at high percentages

Im talking about one of my crew mates..not a random olimar or a CPU

EDIT: I didn't realize that you mentioned the tip already fox >_>

It wasn't with the tip. It was with the handle.

I'll record it soon and upload it.

 

[copacetic]

This is VERY situational, but it might come in handy. I think I've found a combo against a diddy:

JC banana throw down (Must hit the diddy, can't have them just slip on it) -> reverse Fsmash (first hit only)-> they land on banana -> dsmash

It does ~35%, and works on them as long as they're under ~10%. The nice thing is if you do it at zero, it will do the dsmash gimp which leads to more damage.

The bad thing is, you have to actually hit them with the banana, or else it will fly too far away for them to land on it again. So basically you will never land this combo. But I did it once and checked and it seems like it's true as far as I can tell. I don't think they have enough time to input a command after the first fsmash hit.

Usefullness 0/10

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

@Copacetic: I like how you're trying to find combos with bananas against diddy, the only thing wrong with this one is that the first hit of the combo is too hard to land in a real match. But of course you knew this, so I don't really need to tell you.
So I spose all I'm saying is, yes I like it, I think it's very ingenious how you've used the first hit of F-smash to make them land on the banana to continue the combo, but if you want to find something truly brilliant, it'll need to start with something that is plausible to hit with in a real match. So keep working at it and let me know if you find anything else like this.


@Rockan: What happens is, when someone charges a smash, not only does the hit they are charging do more damage and knockback, but the one who is charging will recieve more knockback then normal if hit by the opponents attack, in this case, Toon's d-smash. So the already all powerful first hit of D-smash was given a boost in knockback because the MK charged his d-smash, resulting in what you saw, MK got hit so far that not only did the second hit miss, but he got flung to his death. As Hyro said, it happens every now and then and has worked for me a few times as well.

 

[Kaffei]

@Copacetic: I like how you're trying to find combos with bananas against diddy, the only thing wrong with this one is that the first hit of the combo is too hard to land in a real match. But of course you knew this, so I don't really need to tell you.
So I spose all I'm saying is, yes I like it, I think it's very ingenious how you've used the first hit of F-smash to make them land on the banana to continue the combo, but if you want to find something truly brilliant, it'll need to start with something that is plausible to hit with in a real match. So keep working at it and let me know if you find anything else like this.


@Rockan: What happens is, when someone charges a smash, not only does the hit they are charging do more damage and knockback, but the one who is charging will recieve more knockback then normal if hit by the opponents attack, in this case, Toon's d-smash. So the already all powerful first hit of D-smash was given a boost in knockback because the MK charged his d-smash, resulting in what you saw, MK got hit so far that not only did the second hit miss, but he got flung to his death. As Hyro said, it happens every now and then and has worked for me a few times as well.

Wow, I never knew that about charging smashes.. Very interesting.

 

[MJG]

Im assuming this doesn't apply to Marth's Shield Break when its being charged? I wouldn't think so..unless the Marth was holding their control stick in a certain direction

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

I quickly checked out Marth's neutral B and it doesn't affect knockback. I also double checked my previous statement that charging smashes increases your own knockback as well and this is confirmed. I inputed the comands for all smashes (Up, Down and Both sides) and made sure that as soon as the character started charging I returned the joystick to neutral and by using an uncharged U-smash in the middle of FD, it is confirmed that they died earlier because of the increased knockback. However, after thinking about what happened in the vid again, I reckon that it had a lot more to do with the opponents DI, as stated by Hyro, and not much to do with increased knockback. So probably a bit of both, but mostly bad DI.

 

[Zephil]

still this sounds useful in certain events... a falco charging the fsmash we surprise him with the crazy hitbox of our dsmash... another thing, does it affect a bigger knockback to a certain direction

what I mean: Usmash increase knockback up or fsmash increase knockback to the sides or is the same effect with any smash charged?