The Never Ending List of Toon's AT's and Tricks / The Data Dump / Song of Brainstorms

[demonictoonlink]

Don't worry. Though awesome, it'll still be a ***** to pull off. Think of it like a jab lock: deadly as ****, but rare that it will be done.
Also, I'm starting the recap video. Any ideas of stuffz I should put in it?

 

[Legendary Pikachu]

Aw man... double posted... i hate my back button... SO SORRY GUYS.... T_T (forgive me...)

 

[Legendary Pikachu]

Don't worry. Though awesome, it'll still be a ***** to pull off.

Yea... what he said. But what fun if any TL does pull it off (even once).

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Skipping rocks. So that's what it comes down to XD. The cast is nothing to us, but a rock. So much pwnage.
Delfino. The new counter against the whole cast except Bowser? (How the hell does that work anyway?!? Why Bowser XD?)

@NeverKnowsBest: Don't worry. I'll convince everyone to leave Fox alone XD. Besides, he's Fox. He'll find a way. (Rising Fair, to Illusion might work. Right?)

@DTL: Well, the re-cap is pretty much anything that is new and amazing since last re-cap. So, what does that include? I'm not sure. I wish I knew what had been added since then.
But I would suggest, simply having a browse over the list and try to guess what would be considered new and amazing since the last re-cap.


I'm honestly not worried about it being considered, hard to land. It's not too hard to Perform when you get the hang of the timing and if you can perform it consistently, landing it should be no problem. I spose time will tell.
I for one, am going to master this technique either way.

 

[demonictoonlink]

K almost done shooting

 

[Lightning93]

I don't doubt this tech will come in handy, because even if it's not entirely a OHKO with a stage hug, TL has some nasty gimping options...

Looking forward to the vid to see how easy/difficult it is to pull off...

 

[WindMajor]

Well it isn't TOO difficult to master. The only real requirement is to have a bomb hit you mid D-Smash. You don't necessarily have to full hop -> Bomb Pull -> Z Drop -> Fast Fall -> D-Smash. You can do it anywhere as long as there's a falling bomb above you, which leads to many opportunities.

You can be recovering from high with a bomb, and just Z drop, Fast fall in front of your enemy, and D-Smash.

Or you can jump recover from the ledge and pull it off.

To do it, it isn't hard. It WILL get harder in the future when people start running away from us.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

I still think that the easiest way is the first way I mentioned, like the very first post I wrote about this just after McDingus mentioned it. Pull out a Bomb, SH, Invincibomb just as you start falling, Instant D-smash.

So hypothetically, the characters that get owned by this run away whenever we have a Bomb in hand (which is like all the time). Just spam them at mid/long range. They have to approach at some point, even if it's for the kill.

Edit: So I reckon we can move on to talk about reliable ways to set this up. There are bound to be many. What do you think?

 

[ASF1nk]

Wow, really looking forward for that video! D:

 

[En.Ee.Oh]

this is a hoax

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

this is a hoax

LMAO!!! Right, yeah. You caught me. Just wait and see.

Edit: So how about some possible set ups. It shouldn't be too hard to land (I can already do it consistently), but the main problem would be getting in the right position. We need to be near the edge, facing the stage with the opponent within D-smashing range. Of course they don't need to be in range until we use D-smash, but I'm just thinking of possible ways to set this up. Any thoughts?

 

[Mota]

Since in water, DI is lagged and you skid a LOT farther. CAN'T MOMENTUM CANCEL IN WATER... LOL. It's really like skipping rocks on a lake... and Toon Link does it the best with living PEOPLE! O_O!!!!!

This just keeps getting better and better.

I'm honestly not worried about it being considered, hard to land. It's not too hard to Perform when you get the hang of the timing and if you can perform it consistently, landing it should be no problem. I spose time will tell.
I for one, am going to master this technique either way.

Ohkay with actually landing BCD your best bet is SH>invicibomb>Dsmash, since it's the fastest way and we're usually doing Short hops>Zairs whilst holding a bomb, so it won't look suspicious until it's too late. Relatively easy to pull off.

Setting up on the other hand is tougher.
Bait your foe into attacking and Airdodge towards them etc is a possibility. Baiting something that has reasonable end lag, like Falco Fsmash--ZSS side B--Olimar grab--Marth Fsmash.

On paper this AT(?) looks promising, but it's still a B**** for me to land, even on Lvl 9 computers. MORE PRACTICE!

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

I got it down now. I can already do it consistently, it's just the timing of the Invincibomb and the timing of the D-smash. The SH version is the best. I hadn't even thought about it before, but as you said, the Invincibomb gives us invincibility frames to dodge an attack then we can instantly counter with the OHKO. So much potential.
The vid should be here soon right? Still can't wait.

 

[demonictoonlink]

Just saying, when I'm coming back down to the stage from high above, I ALWAYS pull a bomb if I have space. This won't be THAT situational. I'm serious guys, we got this.
The **** thing is, our two worst MUs, MK and Olimar, it doesn't really works against... ****...

 

[Mota]

Just saying, when I'm coming back down to the stage from high above, I ALWAYS pull a bomb if I have space. This won't be THAT situational. I'm serious guys, we got this.
The **** thing is, our two worst MUs, MK and Olimar, it doesn't really works against... ****...

True that.
I haven't really been trying out the Full hop alternative, but what you've said about pulling out bombs in the air if you have space is pretty good. They'll be expecting you to instantly throw or drop the bombs down, that could work to our advantage.

MK with his brokeness numerous options and super recovery, I never expected this to work on. But at least Olimar ... Ahh well, normal Dsmash Gimp will have to do. Still pretty effective.

 

[WindMajor]

Just saying, when I'm coming back down to the stage from high above, I ALWAYS pull a bomb if I have space. This won't be THAT situational. I'm serious guys, we got this.
The **** thing is, our two worst MUs, MK and Olimar, it doesn't really works against... ****...

Olimar isn't really our worst MU. MK is, however. We can't gimp his perfect recovery though.

On the other hand, Falco and Fox just got a whole lot easier. I don't even need to hug the ledge if I do it right on a Falco.

Seriously, where's the vid?

 

[demonictoonlink]

Yeah, Oli is definitely far behind him....
Seriously, if we want TL to be viable for big tournaments, we need to find something against Meta...

 

[Sosuke]

It's good that this helps against Falco and Marth.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

I like the idea of being hit up in the air, pulling out a Bomb then doing the fast falled version. The timing for the D-smash in the fast falled one is easier. There are definitely many ways to do this which is good because they won't be able to just look out for one situation and avoid it.

As for the vid. Just give it time. There's no point in rushing something as ground breaking as this. We have to get it right the first time, otherwise people will think it's nothing to worry about and won't take it seriously.
Edit: Yeah the vid will be delayed for a bit longer. Hang in there. Trust me, the delay will be worth it.

 

[WindMajor]

...people will think it's nothing to worry about and won't take it seriously.

Wouldn't that be a good thing?

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Good question. As far as killing people with it, yes it would be a good thing. As far as matchup discussions and tier lists and so on, no it wouldn't be.

 

[Mota]

Wouldn't that be a good thing?

Exactly what I was thinking.

But I like this way better, strike fear in our enemies!

 

[Legendary Pikachu]

Okay you guys... imcoming update. I am going to release a "quick" vid by saturday afternoon/evening (USA Eastern Time) since there are a lot of people wanting to see the footage. I'm going to do a quick music overlay without worrying about fancy macro/micro-syncing crap, and put together the "how to do," main victims that TL's BCD-gimp owns (1HKO category), a couple examples of those in the CHASE (renaming it the VULNERABLE) category, a few practical setups (situational still, but more practical than before), and end with some instances of SUPER-SITUATIONAL 1HKO's (walk-offs, water, platforms).

Anyone against this idea?

Later once people are done flaming us for trying to pull a hoax, and when I have more time to run more filter's and edits, I'll redo the music (if i need to... song suggestions ppl... votes) and try and see if I make the video into a "Step by Step Look at How to BCD-Gimp Each Character" kind of video and show what categories they fall into (DOOMED 1HKO, VULNERABLE 2HKO, and RESILIANT no guarentee).

 

[Mota]

Personally, I'd prefer the video be completed before you released it, for maximum impact.
If we release the "quick" vid people will watch and that'll be it. The main vid will get no attention.

Those claiming it's a hoax, lol screw them, they'll be proved wrong soon enough. ^^

Appreciate your effort on making this vid LDPK, since it's not even your main or anything. Take your time, make it perfect.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

My thoughts exactly. I know what it looks like and what it's capable of, because I've done it myself. So even though I'm keen to see the vid, you may as well do it once and for all. Even if it takes another week.
Thanks again for all your help!

 

[TLMSheikant]

DTL u seem obsessed with Oli XD. Do u play weruop, richbrown or someone godly with Olimar every day or something? O_O. Our worst matchups are mk, falco and marth. I personally dont find falco tough >_> and find marth and snake tougher to deal with.

 

[Remzi]

If you had a bomb in hand, could you ledge hop to do this?

That'd be pretty amazing. Force someone to recover over the ledge because you are hugging it, then punish with ledgehop to BCD?

 

[WindMajor]

If you had a bomb in hand, could you ledge hop to do this?

That'd be pretty amazing. Force someone to recover over the ledge because you are hugging it, then punish with ledgehop to BCD?

Well it's possible, assuming the spacing is correct. Doing it off the ledge though is a lot harder though...

 

[Mota]

^ Wow that would work really well, especially against Marth's recovery, thanks for the idea BRZ.

Easy to pull off, TL could drop from the ledge and instanly jump to BCD.

 

[Legendary Pikachu]

That's one of the practical ways to do BCD. My bro just drops down, and pulls out a bomb and then regrabs>drop again throw bomb up>regrab>drop>f-air/n-air/wall-jumpbair while catching the bomb, I-bomb>BCD.

You can setup some of sasukebowser's quickdrops on teh ledge while running off or getting back on and time your get-on til when the bombs are about to blow and do the BCD.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Doing it from the ledge sounds legit. That takes care of the whole, how do you even get in the right position to pull this off, problem.

I tried out the water version of this and it is too cool. Situational, but cool as. How did you even think of it?

So I was thinking, to make this deadly to most of the cast other then people with amazing recoveries, we should talk about what are our options as far as gimping the opponent. Should we stand on stage, spam them then edgehog? Or jump out and try to get a Nair or Fair in. Obviously character specific, because characters recover differently, but I reckon that a lot of character boards don't realise that just because this isn't a OHKO on them, it doesn't mean they're not screwed.

 

[Mota]

We could probably work it out, but if LDPK could give us the list of the VULNERABLE 2HKO we could start discussing. (Possible thread in the future)

A few off the top of my head, Snake, Lucario, Wario, Boozer, Sheik/Zelda could be gimped with a simple Nair. Spam and gimp the Mother boyz.
Spike Donkey Kong, Dedede and Boozer.

EDIT: when the vid does come out, I'm assuming LDPK will make an individual thread.

 

[WindMajor]

Can someone explain to me what this VULNERABLE and CHASE thing is?

Also, I'll help test out some of the character specific things. Give me a group of characters and I'll contribute for Monday.

 

[Legendary Pikachu]

Can someone explain to me what this VULNERABLE and CHASE thing is?

Also, I'll help test out some of the character specific things. Give me a group of characters and I'll contribute for Monday.

Vulnerable (chase) are those characters that:

1) can make it ONTO the stage even if TL perfectly edgehogs
2) can only be killed by following up the BCD-gimp (aerial > edgehog; spike).... you must chase them.
3) has predictable/punishable/easier recoveries for intercepting

Resistant or Resilient are those characters that:

1) have multiple jumps and who are rarely offstage-gimped anyway (DreamLand)
2) have recoveries that cannot be spiked/punished by TL's pursuit if spaced well and that have near infinite routes for recovering (cypher+c4) (ROB up-b) (even sonic's insanely high up-b)
3) characters that have extraordinary normal jump distances (Yoshi+airdodge and WOLF+side-b.... VERY wierd.... Wolf's NORMAL JUMP covers insane horizontal distance (most horizontal jump in the game!) and his side-b in combination will always make it back to the stage almost faster than toon link can jump offstage, let alone finish the gimp.
4) characters that don't get thrown that far away (only Bowser.... he has a 70-90% chance of survival since he just "doesn't get thrown far AT ALL" and can often aerial TL or side-b/up-b TL as the Toon Link starts pursuit).

About the Video, I got footage for all the classes now. So don't worry about doing them separately. I am presenting each cast member in order within each class. Owned is pretty self explanitory, for vulnerable, i'll post 2-3 snippets (1 that shows the victim CAN get ON the stage even when TL edgehogs, and the others are example followups to seal the slightly longer gimp. As for the resistant, I'll post 1 snippet of Toon link following up the gimp and show how the victims under resistant can stall/outspace/outspeed/outprioritize/outlive most of Toon link's followup attempts.

I tried out the water version of this and it is too cool. Situational, but cool as. How did you even think of it?

Does this down here help answer that question?

K Prime and LDPK are our [pikachus'] resident mad scientists. I Loves it. <3

I'm still trying to perfect the thunder cancel that you posted for doubles. I want some LDPK facts 'cuz when this dude comes in he has cool stuff to tell us about.

I sort of helped visualize 2 new Pikachu AT's already and advanced 3 other pika AT's. K-Prime (the other pika scientist) legit confirms and researches moves/combos/mechanics with hacking and benchmarking software. I guess it's just intuitive to me. Plus, through my brother Arc-thefallen-, I like Toon Link and the boards over here a lot.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Bowser is fat XD.
Wolf is a surprise. I didn't see that coming. It just goes to show how much effort was put into researching this.

So......everyones wondering, no rush or anything, but could you give us an estimate as to how much longer it will take? Just for the record, you know.
Another day? Another week?

I say again, no rush or anything, take your time. Just curious is all.

 

[Legendary Pikachu]

So......everyones wondering, no rush or anything, but could you give us an estimate as to how much longer it will take?

I say again, no rush or anything, take your time. Just curious is all.

Would it help any if I said I'm aiming for sometime tomorrow (Sunday afternoon USA EST)?

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

Sweetness. I was only hoping for a guesstimate.
I might be busy when it's posted, but I'll be able to check it out later on. Good luck.

 

[Mota]

Would it help any if I said I'm aiming for sometime tomorrow (Sunday afternoon USA EST)?

Haazah! Can't wait.

Dang, would've been cool if we had a OHKO on every space animal.

 

[2nLio]

so lemme make sure I understand exactly what you guys are coming up with.

You have a bomb in your hand, Ibomb so the bomb gets dropped behind you, do a Dsmash, and by the time the second part of it is supposed to come out, you blow yourself up so the opponent gets hit only by the first hit and gets dragged away from the stage (like a Dsmash at low %)?

 

[Legendary Pikachu]

so lemme make sure I understand exactly what you guys are coming up with.

You have a bomb in your hand, Ibomb so the bomb gets dropped behind you, do a Dsmash, and by the time the second part of it is supposed to come out, you blow yourself up so the opponent gets hit only by the first hit and gets dragged away from the stage (like a Dsmash at low %)?

Pretty much... but UNLIKE the Dsmash at low %, the victim doesn't get hit by the second attack of Dsmash when the bomb interrupts. This results in some insane knockback/stun/lower trajectory that turns a once low-damage surprising potential gimp into an any-damage 1/3 cast 1HKO move. Visually, i didn't notice how deadly this move was quite honestly. But have a roomate/friend DO this TO YOU. When I was on the receiving end of that attack, I was then like, "WHOA! What did I just get hit by?!"