The Most Controversial Thread on the Site! (Originally the Anti-Lucario/Pro Squirtle)

[kaid]

yep. Right up until Youtube cut it entirely.

 

[Johnknight1]

Yesssss......I can feel your hate, young Sandwalker.....

"Hence forth you shall be known as Darth....HATHE-SAND! [another day, another random word I made up]

Thank you JohnKnight for your EXTREMEIST support of WW Link, and your compliment of my sig! teehee.

BUT, I cannot agree on Lucario. I will agree he could have a unique moveset, Sakurai has proven it time and time again that anyone can have a decent moveset (racecar/arwing pilot, princess who doesnt fight but gets an italian guy to do the fighting for her, etc etc), I just don't like him.
Actually, it's not all that. I think the pokemon series went downhill after the second generation. They're just milking it now, I mean, a DNA pokemon? come on! he's a few lines connected to a head for crying out loud!

Sakurai clearly has love for the original 151. And the original 151 deserve it.

WW Link is my top pick for Brawl, and to be correct I am a WW Link in Brawl extremist! EXTRMST! I got into a ninja fight iwth Raiden 7 times just to kidnap Sakurai and his family so I could get him in BRAWL! I take things to EXTREMES!

And Nintendo always milks money, but they want to make money, and keep their customers happy=mutually beneficial=they take our money, we're happy=they keep going=everyone is happy. They've still got originality, and could make 5,000 original Pokemon if they wanted to. Sakurai loves the original 150, but if Pokemon Trainer proved anything, it proved he still loves the starter Pokemon and their evolutions [Pikachu, Squirtle, Bulbasaur, Charmander, and all their evolutions].

But the 4th gen will probably be the best selling one. In Japan it's scheduled to be the #3 best selling game of all-time there, behind only Super Mario Bros. 1&3 [way back when] I've yet to get/play D/P, but something tells me it remains true to the fun classic nature of Pokemon, though it has a [HUGEEEEEE] online community this time around.

 

[pineappleupsetshark]

I'm not going to be involved in the Lucario debate, because everyone involved is a complete lunatic, except maybe kaid and B/L.
I'd like to know your position on a couple of characters I'm keen on.
List:
Paper Mario
Meowth
Bomberman
Captain Olimar

 

[_the_sandman_]

I've been repeating myself over and over again on this thread....

So I'm going to ask one more time, give me one good way in which he is important to the franchise.

No. One way in which he is necessary to the franchise! Unless you answer this question I refuse to answer any of yours.

Is anyone actually going to attempt to answer this?

 

[kaid]

I've been repeating myself over and over again on this thread....

So I'm going to ask one more time, give me one good way in which he is important to the franchise.

No. One way in which he is necessary to the franchise! Unless you answer this question I refuse to answer any of yours.

He has plot, unlike any other pokemon except for the version legendary, who will be pokeballed for being legendary.

 

[_the_sandman_]

He has plot, unlike any other pokemon except for the version legendary, who will be pokeballed for being legendary.

If the plot you're referring to is from the movie, try again. That isn't a good enough answer to why he is NECESSARY TO THE FRANCHISE.


100 pages and still no reasonable answer....

 

[kaid]

Actually, I'm referring to the whole Iron Island quest.

It helps if you've played the game.

 

[pineappleupsetshark]

I'd like to know your position on a couple of characters I'm keen on.
List:
Paper Mario
Meowth
Bomberman
Captain Olimar

Ignored, so reposted.

 

[Psychoace]

It's not really a plot thing that gets them on there. Take Jigglypuff and pikachu why were they on there? Because there so ****ing popular. Everyone who has never played the game knows of them.

 

[_the_sandman_]

Actually, I'm referring to the whole Iron Island quest.

It helps if you've played the game.

Is this the reason why Pokemon exists? Hardly.... give me a better answer than a side quest.

Ignored, so reposted.

This is the Anti-Lucario thread ONLY now. Please take your business elsewhere. I really don't want to deal with anyone else right now until I have proven Lucario isn't worthy enough for being a representative in Smash.

 

[kaid]

Is this the reason why Pokemon exists? Hardly.... give me a better answer than a side quest.

When you give a reason for, say, Dedede.
After all, we aready have a rival for Kirby...

 

[_the_sandman_]

When you give a reason for, say, Dedede.
After all, we aready have a rival for Kirby...

Well other than the fact he has been the main antagonist for almost every single Kirby game, including the first one. Well... wouldn't that mean King Dedede is important?

Avoiding my question with another question? Is that because you can't actually answer mine? Is that because Lucario doesn't deserve the spot in Brawl? Are you afraid to admit it?

 

[Johnknight1]

I'm not going to be involved in the Lucario debate, because everyone involved is a complete lunatic, except maybe kaid and B/L.
I'd like to know your position on a couple of characters I'm keen on.
List:
Paper Mario
Meowth
Bomberman
Captain Olimar

Paper Mario: I'd like it, but I don't see it happening.
Meowth: IDK how to feel, but I don't like Meowth outside of smash=same with Jiggs [in smash Jiggs rocks]
Bomberman: If by some miracle Sonic, Megaman, Geno, and Crono get in Brawl, then the B man gets the next spot. Otherwise, NO!
Captain Olimar: One of my top ten most desired characters for Brawl! HE'D ROCK!

 

[kaid]

All things are relative. Dedede could be said to be important... but he isn't nessisary.

That's the problem with your question. You want peaty Pirana in, when he is one of the least qualified characters, right down there with waluigi. I fail to see how you can claim only "nessisary" people can get in, and still say Peaty should get in.

 

[kaid]

(logs out because of time)

 

[RDK]

Geno and Crono over Bomberman in Brawl? Ha. Bomberman's chances over Geno and Crono are astronomical.

And Kaid's right, Sandman. You're logic is basically swiss cheese from all the holes. You're going around in circles.

 

[_the_sandman_]

All things are relative. Dedede could be said to be important... but he isn't nessisary.

That's the problem with your question. You want peaty Pirana in, when he is one of the least qualified characters, right down there with waluigi. I fail to see how you can claim only "nessisary" people can get in, and still say Peaty should get in.

This isn't about the others, this is about Lucario. And you're avoiding it because you can't answer it. I don't give a care about Petey anymore, I don't expect to see him in Brawl. Quit changing the subject.

Is Lucario necessary to the franchise or not?

 

[pineappleupsetshark]

Avoiding my question with another question? Is that because you can't actually answer mine? Is that because Lucario doesn't deserve the spot in Brawl? Are you afraid to admit it?

No, it's because you're a lunatic. Not for hating Lucario, but just generally, in the way you post.
Also, since you changed the first post, it's gone beyond Anti-Lucario. If we've got WW Link in here, why not the four I suggested?

Is this the reason why Pokemon exists? Hardly.... give me a better answer than a side quest.

It's on more merchandise than any other 4th generation Pokemon except possibly Munchlax.

 

[Johnknight1]

Geno and Crono over Bomberman in Brawl? Ha. Bomberman's chances over Geno and Crono are astronomical.

And Kaid's right, Sandman. You're logic is basically swiss cheese from all the holes. You're going around in circles.

Geno has fanbase, and sorry but Bomberman lacks sales. Seriously, after 1,000 games the series hasn't even sold 10 million units. Halo, SSB, and Kingdom Hearts [minus that retarted Chain of Meories] did it in TWO! TWO!

But seriously, Geno's fanbase would eat Bomberman's. Bomberman has no hope baiscally, sorry. Geno however....Sakurai stopped twice in his poll to say "That'd be a awsome character". TWICE! He never stopped twice for anyone, well maybe other than King Dedede. BTW, King Dedede is all but confirmed, but I get wat you are arguing.

btw, awsome update!

 

[RDK]

Geno has fanbase, and sorry but Bomberman lacks sales. Seriously, after 1,000 games the series hasn't even sold 10 million units. Halo, SSB, and Kingdom Hearts [minus that retarted Chain of Meories] did it in TWO! TWO!

It's not my fault Konami sucks as a company, and totally fails when it comes to making good recent games.

And we're not talking about fanbase size, we're talking about chances in Brawl. I could make the same argument with Bomberman.

 

[Circus]

Is Lucario necessary to the franchise or not?

Necessary? Of course not. But really, how many pokemon are? Jigglypuff sure isn't, but she made it into the two previous Smashes and is highly speculated to be in Brawl—ALL based on her popularity in Japan.

Even Mewtwo, despite his status as the villain, is still just a legendary pokemon hiding in a cave when you break it down. His evil history and personality were only developed in his movie, which you are clearly hellbent on discounting.

The only pokemon that's truly necessary to the franchise is Pikachu, and even he's debatable since he wasn't actually important at all in Pokemon Red and Blue. He's only necessary in the sense that having a pokemon mascot was almost necessary—and Pikachu happened to be the lucky sonuvagun.

 

[_the_sandman_]

Necessary? Of course not. But really, how many pokemon are? Jigglypuff sure isn't, but she made it into the two previous Smashes and is highly speculated to be in Brawl—ALL based on her popularity in Japan.

Even Mewtwo, despite his status as the villain, is still just a legendary pokemon hiding in a cave when you break it down. His evil history and personality were only developed in his movie, which you are clearly hellbent on discounting.

The only pokemon that's truly necessary to the franchise is Pikachu, and even he's debatable since he wasn't actually important at all in Pokemon Red and Blue. He's only necessary in the sense that having a pokemon mascot was almost necessary—and Pikachu happened to be the lucky sonuvagun.

Mewtwo and Jigglypuff both have reached a type of popular/mascot status just like Pikachu from the Red and Blue Pokemon game, which if I recall was the first pokemon game. Which was the original game that set the foundation for the entire series all together.

Mario has a lot of mascots in his series, like Luigi, Peach, and Bowser. They aren't as popular as Mario but they are MAJOR and IMPORTANT characters from the first Super Mario Bros game. You can't deny that they are also an icon just like Mario is.

Lucario doesn't have that effect on an entire franchise like every single character in Brawl so far has done. You said Lucario isn't necessary to the franchise, which is what this question is all about. You have finally answered my question, thank you.

 

[Johnknight1]

Mewtwo and Jigglypuff both have reached a type of popular/mascot status just like Pikachu from the Red and Blue Pokemon game, which if I recall was the first pokemon game. Which was the original game that set the foundation for the entire series all together.

Mario has a lot of mascots in his series, like Luigi, Peach, and Bowser. They aren't as popular as Mario but they are MAJOR and IMPORTANT characters from the first Super Mario Bros game. You can't deny that they are also an icon just like Mario is.

Lucario doesn't have that effect on an entire franchise like every single character in Brawl so far has done. You said Lucario isn't necessary to the franchise, which is what this question is all about. You have finally answered my question, thank you.

A Pokemon trainer a mascot=??? Sorry, but NO! Bowser Jr. is a new Mario mascot, Midna is a new LOZ mascot, and Lucario is basically the 4th gen mascot. He's the only 4th gen Pokemon to have a movie, and Jiggs never had a movie. Besides, Jiggs is only big in Japan. Anyways, look at the fanbases. Lucario is one of the biggest, PERIOD! [munchlax is hated here, loved in Japan] Look on youtube Brawl want lists, and you'll see that more people desire Lucario than any other Pokemon character [as a newcomer]. Lucario is easily one of the most desired characters for Brawl, period.

Your lack of vision means nothing, just like "zomg Ridley is a dragon, he's too big" means nothing. No one is neccissary, but the most wanted of the most wanted characters will basically make it, for sure. Lucario is one of them, so he's got a good shot, PERIOD. It's all about general fanbase, reconizability, pro-Brawl fanbase, profits, and more wanted then not in Brawl. Lucario has the first, somewat lacks the 2nd, has the 3rd, has the 4th, and has the last. We have 17 confirmed characters. Tell me 23 characters that deserve the spot more=???

Luigi, G'dorf, Ness, Diddy Kong, King Dedede, Bowser Jr., Ridley...I got 7 for you, 16 to go. Take my challenge, see who you get.

 

[_the_sandman_]

A Pokemon trainer a mascot=??? Sorry, but NO! Bowser Jr. is a new Mario mascot, Midna is a new LOZ mascot, and Lucario is basically the 4th gen mascot. He's the only 4th gen Pokemon to have a movie, and Jiggs never had a movie. Besides, Jiggs is only big in Japan. Anyways, look at the fanbases. Lucario is one of the biggest, PERIOD! [munchlax is hated here, loved in Japan] Look on youtube Brawl want lists, and you'll see that more people desire Lucario than any other Pokemon character [as a newcomer]. Lucario is easily one of the most desired characters for Brawl, period.

Your lack of vision means nothing, just like "zomg Ridley is a dragon, he's too big" means nothing. No one is neccissary, but the most wanted of the most wanted characters will basically make it, for sure. Lucario is one of them, so he's got a good shot, PERIOD. It's all about general fanbase, reconizability, pro-Brawl fanbase, profits, and more wanted then not in Brawl. Lucario has the first, somewat lacks the 2nd, has the 3rd, has the 4th, and has the last. We have 17 confirmed characters. Tell me 23 characters that deserve the spot more=???

Luigi, G'dorf, Ness, Diddy Kong, King Dedede, Bowser Jr., Ridley...I got 7 for you, 16 to go. Take my challenge, see who you get.

Trainer isn't a mascot? Trainer isn't important to the series? Isnt' the trainer the character you literally use to play Pokemon? How is the character YOU play as not important?

There isn't a new mascot for Mario. Mario IS THE MASCOT.
Midna? Please... LINK, ZELDA, and GANONDORF (Ganon) are the mascots for the Zelda series.
And you're also trying to tell me Lucario has as much importance as Pikachu does? Psh...

Mario, Pokemon, Zelda, Kirby, etc. already have mascots. They don't need some new nobody. You're delusional if you think these classic series need to be represented by someone new.

Pokemon can survive just fine without Lucario, because he ISN'T a mascot for the overall game. Especially the first one which set the foundation for the entire series.

You still haven't answered my question. You just said a bunch of reasons why characters like Mario and Link are less than Bowser Jr and Midna. And how Youtube means Lucario is important.

In terms of being the most important mascot, Lucario can't compare to Pikachu, Mewtwo, and Jigglypuff.

Answer the question.

Is Lucario NECESSARY to the franchise?

 

[Johnknight1]

Trainer isn't a mascot? Trainer isn't important to the series? Isnt' the trainer the character you literally use to play Pokemon? How is the character YOU play as not important?

Ash is a trainer, and he's the mascot.

There isn't a new mascot for Mario. Mario IS THE MASCOT. Midna? Please... LINK, ZELDA, and GANONDORF (Ganon) are the mascots for the Zelda series. And you're also trying to tell me Lucario has as much importance as Pikachu does? Psh...

I mean as in like a extra reconizable character kinda mascot, not mascot for the whole series. Does Pikachu have a story in the games=??? Heck, the only Pokemon I know with stories in the games are Mewtwo, Suicune, Groudon, Ho-oh, Mew, Kyrogue, and the Regies. No one else really, other then Pikachu was the only starter in Yellow and made faces.

Mario, Pokemon, Zelda, Kirby, etc. already have mascots. They don't need some new nobody. You're dilusional if you think these classic series need to be represented by someone new.

I mean as new characters who are reconizable. Again, you show your biased points.

Pokemon can survive just fine without Lucario, because he ISN'T a mascot for the overall game. Especially the first one which set the foundation for the entire series.

Well Pokemon could survive fine without even Pikachu. Heck, Pokemon could survive off only Pikachu. Answer my question.

You still haven't answered my question. You just said a bunch of reasons why characters like Mario and Link are less than Bowser Jr and Midna.

I never said that. You already stated they were important, and I never said that, so stop doing that crap. That's retarted if you think I said that, it was in the quote above me, and anyone with brains know they are the main mascots. I mean as reconizable characters in their respective franchises Bowser Jr. and Midna are mascots, not mascots of their series, just NEW MASCOTS. Stop twisting my post with this unhonest crap, where did I say they were more important than Mario or Link=???

Answer the question.

Is Lucario NECESSARY to the franchise?

No one but Pikachu and Ash are. They keep the money rolling. So that leaves some Pokmon Brawl spots left, either 2 or 3 I am assuming. Who's a better possible playable character who is HALF AS DESIRED AS LUCARIO=??? Answer me that one while you're at it.

Answer my question now. Go on, answer the one on my last post, I dare you.

 

[_the_sandman_]

No one but Pikachu and Ash are. They keep the money rolling. So that leaves some Pokmon Brawl spots left, either 2 or 3 I am assuming. Who's a better possible playable character who is HALF AS DESIRED AS LUCARIO=??? Answer me that one while you're at it.

Answer my question now. Go on, answer the one on my last post, I dare you.

So Pikachu and Ash (the trainer) are of more importance to the franchise than Lucario is. Bravo! You figured it out!

In fact why not have the 2nd most popular pokemon and the most powerful pokemon from the original pokemon games come into the roster as well?

And since Jigglypuff and Mewtwo fit in those rolls and have already appeared in Smash, I think they have a better shot than Lucario has.

So you finally admitted that Lucario doesn't have importance to the franchise. About time another person gave me an answer.

 

[Johnknight1]

So Pikachu and Ash (the trainer) are of more importance to the franchise than Lucario is. Bravo! You figured it out!

In fact why not have the 2nd most popular pokemon and the most powerful pokemon from the original pokemon games come into the roster as well?

And since Jigglypuff and Mewtwo fit in those rolls and have already appeared in Smash, I think they have a better shot than Lucario has.

So you finally admitted that Lucario doesn't have importance to the franchise. About time another person gave me an answer.

Wait, wait, wait. You're taking this to extremes.

Jiggs lost it's popularity in Japan, it's hated here, so it's not popular. NA is where the most money is at, NOT JAPAN! Mewtwo fits the roll, check. Jiggs....maybe, but let's say Jiggs makes it. But wat if there is one more spot, who gets it=??? Pichu is dead, Deoxys is out, Groudon was retarted to begin with, so who fits it=??? LUCARIO!

Jiggs has lost it's popularity in Japan, and Japan only makes up 1/3rd or so of the sales. NA is where the REAL SALES ARE, and we hate the puff. So therefore Mewtwo is 2nd most popular, and the 3rd most popular....ahh it's either Charizard [confirmed] or Lucario=I'm just guessing.

And you're taking this to extremes. Lucario is important in marketing the 4th gen, but no POKEMON IS REQUIRED OTHER THAN PIKACHU! F*** mewtwo, f*** Squirtle, f*** mew, f*** Lucario, PIKACHU IS WHERE THE merchendise money is at. If you take away the pika-factor and mewtwo-factor, then it's a toss up between a few Pokemon for the 3rd spot, but I believe Lucario takes it, being the 4th gens most popular Pokemon, which is set to be the best selling gen of all of them! So as far as we know Lucario could already be the 2nd most popular.

And answer my two questions already. No one is required in Brawl other than Diddy Kong. No one else is that big to Nintendo, just to the fans. But the fans are who make Nintendo, so that means this isn't true. That means they matter to Nintendo, and the fans want Lucario in Brawl, so Lucario will very likely be in Brawl.

-Johnknight1

 

[_the_sandman_]

Wait, wait, wait. You're taking this to extremes.

Jiggs lost it's popularity in Japan, it's hated here, so it's not popular. NA is where the most money is at, NOT JAPAN! Mewtwo fits the roll, check. Jiggs....maybe, but let's say Jiggs makes it. But wat if there is one more spot, who gets it=??? Pichu is dead, Deoxys is out, Groudon was retarted to begin with, so who fits it=??? LUCARIO!

Jiggs has lost it's popularity in Japan, and Japan only makes up 1/3rd or so of the sales. NA is where the REAL SALES ARE, and we hate the puff. So therefore Mewtwo is 2nd most popular, and the 3rd most popular....ahh it's either Charizard [confirmed] or Lucario=I'm just guessing.

And you're taking this to extremes. Lucario is important in marketing the 4th gen, but no POKEMON IS REQUIRED OTHER THAN PIKACHU! F*** mewtwo, f*** Squirtle, f*** mew, f*** Lucario, PIKACHU IS WHERE THE merchendise money is at. If you take away the pika-factor and mewtwo-factor, then it's a toss up between a few Pokemon for the 3rd spot, but I believe Lucario takes it, being the 4th gens most popular Pokemon, which is set to be the best selling gen of all of them! So as far as we know Lucario could already be the 2nd most popular.

And answer my two questions already. No one is required in Brawl other than Diddy Kong. No one else is that big to Nintendo, just to the fans. But the fans are who make Nintendo, so that means this isn't true. That means they matter to Nintendo, and the fans want Lucario in Brawl, so Lucario will very likely be in Brawl.

-Johnknight1

So exactly how do you know Jigglypuff's current popularity in present Japan?

But that question doesn't matter at the moment. Because Jigglypuff was an icon for the pokemon franchise, not many characters can reach that status. Especially for the first pokemon game.

The best Pokemon to represent the entire pokemon franchise are already there, right in front of you. No other characters can represent the series better than Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, and the TRAINER HIMSELF. With the addition of 3 starters, which occurs in every game since the beginning.

You already answered my question. You said Lucario isn't important to the franchise. Which is the point I've been trying to make. Lucario really isn't important to the franchise. He isn't the reason Pokemon exists, its the characters like Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, Squirtle, Ivysaur, Charizard, and Trainer are why pokemon exists. Its because THEY are the original mascots that represented the entire series since the beginning.

Lucario isn't important compared to the originals. Quit asking me questions when you don't even acknowlege my answers.

And with that said I'm calling it a night.

 

[Legolastom]

So exactly how do you know Jigglypuff's current popularity in present Japan?

But that question doesn't matter at the moment. Because Jigglypuff was an icon for the pokemon franchise, not many characters can reach that status. Especially for the first pokemon game.

The best Pokemon to represent the entire pokemon franchise are already there, right in front of you. No other characters can represent the series better than Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, and the TRAINER HIMSELF. With the addition of 3 starters, which occurs in every game since the beginning.

You already answered my question. You said Lucario isn't important to the franchise. Which is the point I've been trying to make. Lucario really isn't important to the franchise. He isn't the reason Pokemon exists, its the characters like Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, Squirtle, Ivysaur, Charizard, and Trainer are why pokemon exists. Its because THEY are the original mascots that represented the entire series since the beginning.

Lucario isn't important compared to the originals. Quit asking me questions when you don't even acknowlege my answers.

And with that said I'm calling it a night.

Actually he said Pikachu was the only one who was really important to the franchise... there you go twisting peoples words again stupid little ****.

But how could the second best selling (And thus the second most lucrative) franchise only have three reps? not the mention what is likely going to be their best selling generation have none? answer me that? and o god don't get into that whole "They are following a theme" ****! because its obvious they are following a theme with some things but it doesn't mean they can just stray away from it if they want! and wouldn't be only using Pokemon a them? but LOOK there is PKMN trainer.

And how the hell can Pokemon that are 1st gen represent the ENTIRE franchise? if anything they would rep the 4th one somewhat to show that they are moving away from the old ones and not using that stale old formula.

Read this. PLEASE read this.

Don't just read, think. THINK carefully about it. Don't just post something and say I'm wrong without thinking about it. Give me a valid reason without a movie, why Lucario is more important than ANY of the previously stated characters.

Seriously, please just think about what you are saying about Lucario.

Without the Anime (Which counts the movies as well) how would Pikachu be important to the series? so don't ****ing leave out a very good point just because you don't like it.

Jesus tell me you only act like this online? please!

O yhea and ****ING answer Stryk's post...

Gonna go back to my Paper Mario's now...

 

[Johnknight1]

So exactly how do you know Jigglypuff's current popularity in present Japan?

I know people who have told me Jiggs no longer appears in the manga, where it got all it's popularity. Munchlax, Pichu, and Plusle and Minun stole it's popularity, though it still remains.

But that question doesn't matter at the moment. Because Jigglypuff was an icon for the pokemon franchise, not many characters can reach that status. Especially for the first pokemon game.

Lucario is the 4th gens icon, the best selling gen. Sales say the 4th gen is the most popular, and Lucario is the most popular of the 4th gen. Therefore Lucario is more popular. Plus compare fanbases here in NA where most of the fanbases are...Lucario pwns the puffball. Same goes with Europe, Australia, and everywhere, even Japan probably. Lucario did well on Sakurai's poll, so I am inclined to believe Lucario is popular. Stop twisting my words.

The best Pokemon to represent the entire pokemon franchise are already there, right in front of you. No other characters can represent the series better than Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, and the TRAINER HIMSELF. With the addition of 3 starters, which occurs in every game since the beginning.

That's two characters, we got 2 or 3 more to go. Jiggs lost popularity. And stop avoiding my 5th spot question, that's 3 questions you avoided=the 23 spots, who's more important in the 4th gen, and which Pokemon other than the ones I listed have a story. Actually, that's 4.

You already answered my question. You said Lucario isn't important to the franchise. Which is the point I've been trying to make. Lucario really isn't important to the franchise. He isn't the reason Pokemon exists, its the characters like Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, Squirtle, Ivysaur, Charizard, and Trainer are why pokemon exists. Its because THEY are the original mascots that represented the entire series since the beginning.

Jiggs is DEAD! DEAD! Lucario dominates now, but Pikachu will forever be the #1 Pokemon. It's a icon that I guarentee you at least 3 billion people in the world reconize. That's a mother f***ing icon, and it goes beyond Mario in some senses, especially since Pokemon was once the #1 most searched word on the internet. SQUIRTLE ISN'T A MASCOT, or near as popular. D/P has sold 6 million units in Japan, R/B/Y/G sold 4 or so. D/P have been out for like 4 months, the 1st gen for ten years. LUCARIO IS THE MOST POPULAR 4th GEN POKEMON, PERIOD! Lucario fanbase beats the sh** out of Squirtle's fanbase anyday.

Lucario isn't important compared to the originals. Quit asking me questions when you don't even acknowlege my answers.

And with that said I'm calling it a night.

Well look ath the stats, in Japan D/P has already outsold all the other gens. D/P is going to outsell the other gens, BY A HUGE MARGIN! Lucario is their icon, and his popularity beats the sh** out of rusty and old Jiggs, ANYDAY. Consider that vs. your blind retarted hatred. I swear you twist my statements around. ONLY Pikachu, the PKMN trainer, and Mewtwo are more important. Then after that is Lucario. At least that is what fanbase says. WAit...fanbase funds the project, so that makes it for certain that Lucario is dominant over all the other Pokemon [minus Mewtwo and Pikachu].

Consider that for a change, and stop being a biased fool. I feel like I'm convincing another mindless person on the Diddy Kong for Brawl [debate] thread who says he lacks importance [though not that extreme]. BTW, the stocks, sales, numbers, figures, and fanbases say you're wrong that only the 1st gen should be represented. 4th gen sales and popularity make 1st gen sales look like a comparision of modern Sonic game [no money] vs modern Mario games [BANK!]=no contest.

-Johnknight1

I'm out, catch ya later.

 

[StevenM]

Sounds fun, but I'd rather have Lucario.

Fair enough.

Actually, I'm referring to the whole Iron Island quest.

It helps if you've played the game.

You wander through the cave, find Riley, lead him to the two Galactic Grunts, and defeat them in a 2-on-2. For your reward you get an egg with Riolu in it which you can evolve into Lucario.

That has barely anything to do with the 'plot' of the games. Its practically a sidequest, only its mandatory to complete so you can progress through the game. You can argue the importance of Iron Island to the game until you're blue in the face, but the egg is just a reward. You may as well say that Manaphy is essential to the story.

'Plot' is "this legendary PokeMon that is a master of time/space is being sought by Team Galactic, and you have to pummel all of them throughout most of the game, including the senior staff and the leader, in order to stop the world from being destroyed and reborn... and after that you'll have to beat the Elite Four and become the PokeMon Champion, natch'.

Dialga and Palkia ARE necessary to the plot of the games, they're practically built around them, they're featured on the boxart, etc. Lucario is an evolution of a reward you get for beating a cave. It could have been an egg of anything else - Happiny, say, if you didn't already get that one from Hearthome - but the fact that it was Riolu doesn't change anything.

"But you can only get one Lucario in the whole game, and he's NOT EVEN A LEGENDARY!"

You can only get one Rotom as well.

Geno has fanbase, and sorry but Bomberman lacks sales. Seriously, after 1,000 games the series hasn't even sold 10 million units. Halo, SSB, and Kingdom Hearts [minus that retarted Chain of Meories] did it in TWO! TWO!

Geno was a secondary character in one videogame, released in the mid-90's, on the SNES. Bomberman has gone through dozens of games and dozens of ports, from the NES to the PlayStation to the Gamecube to even XBox Live Arcade and an anime, which says something about his popularity.

And you'te telling me, in spite of all that, that you're taking Geno over Bomberman because Geno has a 'bigger' fanbase from one game? Maybe a more rabid fanbase, I could understand that.

And that you're laughing at the fact that "1,000" games that haven't even sold 10 million units together when Super Mario RPG sold... what... how much?

Geno, at best, will be an Assist Trophy.

 

[Legolastom]

Fair enough.



You wander through the cave, find Riley, lead him to the two Galactic Grunts, and defeat them in a 2-on-2. For your reward you get an egg with Riolu in it which you can evolve into Lucario.

That has barely anything to do with the 'plot' of the games. Its practically a sidequest, only its mandatory to complete so you can progress through the game. You can argue the importance of Iron Island to the game until you're blue in the face, but the egg is just a reward. You may as well say that Manaphy is essential to the story.

'Plot' is "this legendary PokeMon that is a master of time/space is being sought by Team Galactic, and you have to pummel all of them throughout most of the game, including the senior staff and the leader, in order to stop the world from being destroyed and reborn... and after that you'll have to beat the Elite Four and become the PokeMon Champion, natch'.

Dialga and Palkia ARE necessary to the plot of the games, they're practically built around them, they're featured on the boxart, etc. Lucario is an evolution of a reward you get for beating a cave. It could have been an egg of anything else - Happiny, say, if you didn't already get that one from Hearthome - but the fact that it was Riolu doesn't change anything.

"But you can only get one Lucario in the whole game, and he's NOT EVEN A LEGENDARY!"

You can only get one Rotom as well.

Well at least what you posted was true and actually meant something... XD

Anyways the only place to find a Pokemon's back story and popularity is in the Anime (Unless they are legendaries of course) so the whole "story argument" is a bit void (For all Pokemon bar certain legendaries which actually have one).

But what does Pikachu and Jiggly bring to the games? the only one that is repping the actual Pokemon games is the trainer... while the Pokemon themselves are repping the entire franchise.

Point being you cant find very much for certain PKMN in the games... thats where the Anime (And in turn the films which are the Anime) come in.

Er... no comment.

 

[Mandalore]

In fact why not have the 2nd most popular pokemon and the most powerful pokemon from the original pokemon games come into the roster as well?

Charizard is already in the game.

 

[_the_sandman_]

You guys still never answered my question. Quit avoiding it.

Why is Lucario NECESSARY to the franchise?

You gave me a bunch of biased reasons why his game was popular, but not the pokemon itself. Is there a reason why its so popular? Hmm... perhaps its because a certain group of characters from the original series managed to set the foundation for the rest of the pokemon games for years to come.

You guys are acting like Trainer isn't important, when in fact he's the character you actually use yourself.

Also, Brawl is a game for the greatest video game characters of all time (mainly on Nintendo). Pokemon didn't need to become a good game because of the tv show. It was boosted by the tv show, but the games themselves were the reason people would play it. If I recall its "Pokemon Trainer" and not "Ash".

Seriously guys, answer the question. Or is everyone just going to avoid it because they can't face the facts that Lucario really has no power over the franchise.

Again, why is Lucario NECESSARY to the franchise?

 

[Legolastom]

Why should we answer your questions when 1. You don't even read our posts and 2. You don't even answer our questions (Maybe because you don't... read our posts).

O yhea and haven't we answered your question like three times anyway? So STFU you stupid little ****!

And is Pikachu important to the franchise because of its games?

 

[Enlong]

Just a quick note to all here. You also have to take into account the fact that many of the pokemon that are already in Brawl would not be as popular as they are without the anime, either. Such as Pikachu. In the games themselves, Pikachu is not even as important as Squirtle, save for Yellow, which was inspired by the anime. And the same really goes for Jigglypuff, who was another random pokemon who likely made it into Smash 64 based on its popularity that was generated by the anime and manga adaptations. Really Pokemon Trainer is really the only one character from any Smash game that is really necessary to the franchise, when you leave out any influence from sources outside of the games; (like the anime, manga, or movies) the only other really important characters being the starters, and to a lesser extent, Mewtwo, due to the fact that he was one of the two most sought-after pokemon in that first game. I guess what I am trying to say is that the anime and manga are indeed important things for the franchise, at least where characters like Pikachu and Jigglypuff are concerned, so no matter whom you are arguing for or against, you cannot take those factors out of the argument.

And with that, I am off.

 

[Legolastom]

Thats what i have been trying to tell him the whole time... but because he doesn't like Lucario (He hasn't even played the latest frigging games FFS) he would think its a valid reason against him.

Now ****ing answer Stryk's post! if not for me then to shut us all up. (With your logic defying logic!)

 

[Enlong]

Well, I'm not trying to either promote Lucario or bash Lucario. I'm not on anyone's side; I want to make sure everyone has their facts straight.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Just my two cents.

Basing a characters inclusion based on franchise neccessity and what not doesn't hold solid ground as an argument. Smash Bros. doesn't reflect current franchises. Reason being is that Smash Bros. is a fan service that doesn't actually reflect the franchise the character is based on. Each characters exist in the game one way or another despite any representation based on history/time/importance.

That's all.

 

[Nergal]

Wow. This thead went from ratinal (more or less) to outright hatred. Anyway sandman, no pokemon is truly important to the franchise, which is why there are 493 of them. Jigglypuff was not made popular in Red & Blue versions. Gameplaywise, it's not even memorable. If we went by that logic, then the 1st gen reps would be Mewtwo, Mew, & Alakazam. The anime & movies are important because they deeply profile pokemon we otherwise wouldn't care about. Why were Pika & Jiggs chosen? Because cute sells. Sandman, you were actually a decent debater, but you fanboy bias & self-assured nature got in the wy of that.