The Most Controversial Thread on the Site! (Originally the Anti-Lucario/Pro Squirtle)

[The_Corax_King]

As circus said... there could be more mario characters too...

In fact I stated that in the original post...


This whole thing is about Pokemon outnumbering Mario which it won't... (even if it does outnumber mushrooms... who cares?)

 

[ClarkJables]

and i have also been trying to get a point across, in the smash universe they have seperate symbols, so in that respect they are from seperate universe, therefor i.e. if they don't have a mushroom symbol they are not a mario character therefor they don't count as mario rep. that means that if there are four mushroom symbols then there could be 4 pokemon symbols

 

[The_Corax_King]

Or maybe you are taking this whole "rep" thing too far...

perhaps they just wanted different symbols so they didn't have 6 mushrooms...
(lol kidding...)

 

[Johnknight1]

The Mario Roster will probably be one of these four possibilities:

1.[best roster] Mario, Bowser, Peach, Luigi, Bowser Jr., Geno [even if he's 3rd party he's technically part of the Mario franchise, since that is where he's made all of his appearances].

2.Mario, Bowser, Peach, Luigi, Geno.

3.Mario, Bowser, Peach, Luigi, Bowsr Jr.

4.Mario, Bowser, Peach, Luigi.

 

[ClarkJables]

i could see the standard mario gang and then another villian thrown in, maybe from the rpg marioverse which has no rep (fawful!)

 

[Circus]

and i have also been trying to get a point across, in the smash universe they have seperate symbols, so in that respect they are from seperate universe, therefor i.e. if they don't have a mushroom symbol they are not a mario character therefor they don't count as mario rep. that means that if there are four mushroom symbols then there could be 4 pokemon symbols

Soooo, Yoshis appeared in Mario's section of Adventure mode because. . . ?

Anyway, none of it really matters. Let's forget about Wario and Yoshi. Your point here does make sense. But that doesn't mean that Lucario (or some other crazy newer gen pokemon, I don't care at this point) can't be added. We can have tons of Pokemon and then have tons MORE Mario characters. Circling all the way back to the original point of all this discussion, the fact remains—Lucario can be in Brawl without the Pokemon outnumbering the Mario characters (though, I think this gets more into Sandman's point than yours. Whatever. I'm tired).

 

[ness4life]

Well, it looks like these thread-dwellers got their wish.

 

[_the_sandman_]

Fine, go after WW Link. Proof he deserves to be in Brawl:

1.Wind Waker was the #4 best selling GCN game. That comes in as the #1 best selling game without Mario. It sold over 3 million units.

2.Phantom Hourglass is the 2nd or 3rd best selling Zelda game in Japan. It has sold about 600,000 or 700,000 units in 3 weeks, and it's only out in JAPAN!

3.Unlike Majora's Mask [which sorta flopped and sold 4 million units], it continues to sell like OOT, the best selling Zelda game of all-time, selling 8 million units. So I predict [and so do big gaming media outlets] that PH will sell about 6 or 7 million units.

4.6 or 7 million + 3 million units=9 or 10 million units. And there could still very well be a 3rd part from wat I've read on it. That's more than every series repped in SSB, minus Metroid, Donkey Kong, tLOZ, Pokemon, and Mario.

5.You've never played WW obviously. He could use the Deku Leaf, Grapple Hook, Hookshot, Skull Hammer, Wind Waker, etc. etc. etc. ADD the PH weapons, and that just makes it better!

6.All the Links in the series attack exactly the same. Only a few stick out: Four Swords Link is the same, but 4 Links. TP Link has 7 special skills. But WW/PH Link is unique, almost all of his sword slashing techniques are unique. The combat system in WW is the most unique, WW Link can do flips, helm cutter, spin around his foes, etc. EVery sword swing is almost completely original, minus a few of Link's signature moves.

7.He could be a clone, Luigified clone, or original character.

8.Don't even bring up cel-shaded characters, I have 20 points for that that could prove you wrong!

So ya, beat that!

And Stryks opinions are logical, and he has shown logic behind them. All you've done is bash and bash. You've bashed everyone who disagrees, hates the idea of Squirtle, or likes Lucario. BTW, who cares if you were right=??? Seriously, you thought of Squirtle as it's own character on it's own so technically you are wrong anyways. And Petey Piranha...please, three minor boss fights means squat. It's a intresting character, just not valueable=as valueable as Dongodongos. And Slippy is the most hated Star Fox character [probably], so I don't see him making it, other than a cameo, trophy, or AT appearance.

Here's the thing, you were a jerk to me right before I even knew you. So I decided to treat you the same way. Need me to prove that WW Link shouldn't be in Brawl? Okay, I'll take a shot at this one....

Well first off, if you noticed, every character follows a particular style. I'm sure you noticed this with Link, since he is Twilight Link, as well as there being a Twilight Zelda, and of course Bridge of Eldin.

But theres more, this occurs for almost every character. Jungle Beat DK, with Bongo Final, and the Rumble Falls level. Pokemon Ruby is being represented with Deoxys and Groudon. Soft cute version of Yoshi with a Yoshi Story level.... and so on.

So if they are representing Link from the Twilight version, then Sakurai is most likely going to keep him that way. Twilight Link is the best looking Link we have ever seen so far. And having a cartoony WW Link just wouldn't fit with the Zelda team. Their style for Brawl is based on a realistic look. Characters on teams all look alike and have similar styles, so why would Zelda break that mold?

Samus and Zamus at least both look realistic, and they also both appear in the same game. If Ridley appreared and a Zero Mission level was up, I wouldn't be surprised at all. Since they are all probably going to be shown as the Zero Mission versions.

As for attacks, you're forgetting the very basic items Link has. A sword and shield. If you look at Melee and see how Link and Young Link compare, you might notice a difference. If Y. Link was never in the game I bet Link's air attacks would have been much better, but since he had to split up his attacks the strength of his air attacks went to Y. Link. It happened to Mario and Dr. Mario. And in the trailer we can see Mario's FAir attack has changed to Dr. Mario's attack. So we should hope that there is only one Link, that way he can be the best possible Link we can have.

As for Slippy, he has appeared in every single Starfox game. Something Wolf can never accomplish. Not to mention the unfortunate similarities between Fox and Wolf. I mean I guess I wouldn't be THAT upset if Wolf appeared in Brawl, but I definitely prefer Slippy over Wolf any day. I'm sure if Wolf didn't appear in the next Starfox game fans wouldn't notice. But if Slippy disappeared the game wouldn't feel right at all.



You sound really dumb when you try to convince me that Squirtle isn't a playable character and that I was wrong. You must have picked up that habit from Stryks.

 

[ClarkJables]

yes lucario could be in brawl but my question is why, because he is popular and he has a movie. deoxys was popular and he had a movie, munchlax is the so called "mascot" of the 4th gen series, should he not get in over lucario

 

[Circus]

yes lucario could be in brawl but my question is why, because he is popular and he has a movie. deoxys was popular and he had a movie, munchlax is the so called "mascot" of the 4th gen series, should he not get in over lucario

The highlighted part is all I'm trying to say. I was arguing with Sandman about this more than I was you. I'm not really saying that Lucario in particular should get in (in fact, in my last post, I mentioned that I don't care about him specifically anymore) but Sandman has mentioned more than once now that Lucario is not in, and we just don't know that to be true. I want him to see that several more pokemon have a shot in Brawl—pokemon from any of the generations. This whole argument was basically just to prove that the point of "Mario characters being outnumbered by Pokemon characters" is a weak one.

 

[Stryks]

and yet ANOTHER biaseb post by mr sandman... im SO quoting everything u said, and the wolf part: hes a villain and we lack that, besides claw-based moveset and u got uniqueness... still in da wii BTW... also star wolf is ONE of the main things we love about star fox, im sure people will go WHA?! if there's no star wolf since fighting them is one of the most epic parts of any SF game...

 

[_the_sandman_]

That is kind of funny how Munchlax is the mascot of the 4th gen, yet people say Lucario is more popular.

If Munchlax can beat out Lucario, I think that helps prove that Lucario isn't Brawl material.

 

[Circus]

That is kind of funny how Munchlax is the mascot of the 4th gen, yet people say Lucario is more popular.

If Munchlax can beat out Lucario, I think that helps prove that Lucario isn't Brawl material.

It doesn't prove anything. We don't know anything. Sakurai's too unpredictable at this point. How many people honestly expected the Pokemon Trainer to be in Brawl? He was one of the characters that most people thought had no chance. You can use all the logic in the world to prove your point (though, I don't think you have); it doesn't matter. Sakurai will put in who he thinks is worthy, therefor, Lucario still has his chance. You CAN'T say that he doesn't.

 

[_the_sandman_]

and yet ANOTHER biaseb post by mr sandman... im SO quoting everything u said, and the wolf part: hes a villain and we lack that, besides claw-based moveset and u got uniqueness... still in da wii BTW... also star wolf is ONE of the main things we love about star fox, im sure people will go WHA?! if there's no star wolf since fighting them is one of the most epic parts of any SF game...

Wolf....
Hes a canine, like Fox
He is the leader of a mercenary group, like Fox
His team is called StarWolf, like StarFox
And he's actually a pretty good guy, like Fox

Already before Wolf can even make it into Brawl he is way too much like Fox. And also... Wolf is not a villain, he is a rival. He was HIRED by Andross to kill Fox. He is a mercenary, he works for the side with more money offered to him. Andross is a villain because he killed Fox's father, he took over the galaxy, and he is the leader of a hostile army. Wolf just doesn't like Fox because he keeps getting beaten by him, on missions he was hired to go into.

Fox, Falco, and Wolf? Two canines and a bird? The group seems uneven to me...
Why not Fox, Falco and Slippy? That way the races are even, and we have three classic Starfox characters.

Wolf is just... lame to me. I know its my "opinion" but he is only a RIVAL that acts wayyyy too much like Fox.

 

[kaid]

Striks, Sandman, both of you shut up.

This thread is going nowhere.

The Anti-lucario groop's main point is that Mushroom-icon characters will equal the Triforce icon characters and the pokeball icon characters.

in Melee, that number was 4. However, Zelda/Shiek actually gave the LoZ franchise 5 characters, but it still counted as 4 for balance.

increacing all 3 icon-groops to 5 is not a big step to make. (at the very least, it leaves room for the Starfox franchise to come frm behind, avoiding issues of seinority between Falco, Wolf and Krystal) Cutting Doc, Pichu, and the OoT Young link frees up aditional room.

As Zelda/shiek showed in Melee, a combination character like PT only counts as one icon, just like Zelda/Shiek was. That means there would still be over half the pokemon roster alone unaccounted for.

In melee, the roster was ALMOST entirely 1st gen. However, it also included the face of the newest gen at the time, Gold/silver. I expect Sakurai to continue this trend.

Pikachu
Trainer
Mewtwo
Jiggs
4th gen.

Now, with that premice, the matter is simplified to, WHICH 4th gen. THAT is where Lucario has his advantage.

 

[ClarkJables]

how does that give him an advantage over other popular 4th gen pokemon like say munchlax

 

[Saph66]

I think a 3rd gen pokemon should be included instead of Mewtwo or Jigglypuff, although I do like them, but Ruby and Sapphire were good games.

 

[Dokuro]

haha, this thread is really silly

PETEY SUCKS, MUNCHLAX SUCKS, WARIO IS A PART OF THE MARIO UNIVERSE, SLIPPY SUCKS, etc., etc. How do you get from "Lucario doesn't deserve to be in brawl" to this **** anyway?

edit: well, it seems like things are getting back on track now...

 

[_the_sandman_]

Striks, Sandman, both of you shut up.

This thread is going nowhere.

The Anti-lucario groop's main point is that Mushroom-icon characters will equal the Triforce icon characters and the pokeball icon characters.

in Melee, that number was 4. However, Zelda/Shiek actually gave the LoZ franchise 5 characters, but it still counted as 4 for balance.

increacing all 3 icon-groops to 5 is not a big step to make. (at the very least, it leaves room for the Starfox franchise to come frm behind, avoiding issues of seinority between Falco, Wolf and Krystal) Cutting Doc, Pichu, and the OoT Young link frees up aditional room.

As Zelda/shiek showed in Melee, a combination character like PT only counts as one icon, just like Zelda/Shiek was. That means there would still be over half the pokemon roster alone unaccounted for.

In melee, the roster was ALMOST entirely 1st gen. However, it also included the face of the newest gen at the time, Gold/silver. I expect Sakurai to continue this trend.

Pikachu
Trainer
Mewtwo
Jiggs
4th gen.

Now, with that premice, the matter is simplified to, WHICH 4th gen. THAT is where Lucario has his advantage.

Zelda and Sheik were the same character. No matter what you say can prove that wrong. Go to the Vs. Records on Brawl, notice how there is no Sheik face? That's because Zelda and Sheik are the SAME CHARACTER, just like Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard are part of the SAME CHARACTER.

I hate it when people say they are the same. You can freely change between the two versions, thats an advantage Zelda has.

Face it people, Lucario isn't going to be playable. I'll accept him as a pokeball though. There will most likely be 4 Pokemon characters in Brawl. Why would we need more than that? These characters are representing their franchises. No other character can represent that better than Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, and the Trainer himself!

 

[ClarkJables]

haha, this thread is really silly

PETEY SUCKS, MUNCHLAX SUCKS, WARIO IS A PART OF THE MARIO UNIVERSE, SLIPPY SUCKS, etc., etc. How do you get from "Lucario doesn't deserve to be in brawl" to this **** anyway?

edit: well, it seems like things are getting back on track now...

i don't know?

 

[kaid]

Zelda and Sheik were the same character. No matter what you say can prove that wrong. Go to the Vs. Records on Brawl, notice how there is no Sheik face? That's because Zelda and Sheik are the SAME CHARACTER, just like Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard are part of the SAME CHARACTER.

That was exactly my point.

And BECAUSE they are only one character, there is plenty of "room" to put a 4th gen in.

 

[ClarkJables]

but why not a 3rd gen or a second gen?

 

[_the_sandman_]

I'm calling it a night. Its kind of ridiculous when people are still finding every little excuse to why Lucario will be in Brawl. I want to say "Face it! You Lose!" But I can't until we are actually given proof that Lucario will be gone.

This is sad, people are so opinionated that they don't realize that they are wrong. I mean several people tonight said that Squirtle isn't a playable character. People are constantly saying that I was wrong about Squirtle even though Sakurai himself posted on his site that you can play as Squirtle!

Characters like Bowser Jr or Wolf I'm not too fond of, but if they appeared in Brawl I wouldn't be that offended. I would still buy the game and I wouldn't think twice about them being there. But for now I will state which character I believe are worthwhile for Brawl. But Lucario... I would actually be very disappointed if he appeared in Brawl. Which is why I made this thread, which is why I'm still against him.

I hope today gave some of you people a slap of reality. You're not always right you know, maybe you should think more about your character choices before you make banners about them. Otherwise you might end up looking like a fool.

I still say Squirtle is a playable character. I don't care what anyone else says against Sakurai's site.

 

[kaid]

Why not have entirely 1st gen?

Sakurai paid enough attention to Pichu to give it an effect only mentioned in it's dex description. This implies more thought put into it than generally reconized here. In my own humble opinion, Sakurai was looking for something the people who stayed with pokemon AFTER the fad ended would know- a representative of the NEWEST pokemon gen.

While the 3rd gen was skipped, it does seem to have a disproportunate number of pokeballs. I could argue that they would be enough to rep that generation.

Personaly, I think Jiggs will be getting the drop, which would leave a slot for yet another pokemon. Meowth, Gardevor, Munch... I don't really know who'd fill it. Let your own prejudice decide.

 

[ClarkJables]

i doubt they would throw away jiggs unless they threw in munch to keep japan happy as far as pokemon go. and second generation was part of the pokemon thread lets not forget. its when third generation came along that the fad began to fade as far as the tv show goes

 

[Dizzynecro]

I dount SSB64 chars will be leaving so unless mewtwo leaves we will just be saying goodbye to pichu(good riddence)

 

[Circus]

Sandman. The emotion I'm currently feeling is indescribable. I cannot believe how arrogant you are. I thought you were a good person, which is why I bumped this thread. I did it so that you could have some limelight. I figured you'd bask in the glory for a minute then stop, but you've clearly grown quite the ego. Rather than accepting some form of "victory" in a humble manner, you start throwing out wild claims about lowering Lucario's chances (that have still yet to be backed up) and go on to make a post as hypocritical as THAT?! I'm thoroughly humiliated that I was stupid enough to think you were nice.

Now, for the picking apart of your post.

I'm calling it a night. Its kind of ridiculous when people are still finding every little excuse to why Lucario will be in Brawl.

You've made no good counterpoint. Not one.

I want to say "Face it! You Lose!" But I can't until we are actually given proof that Lucario will be gone.

You've already basically said that SEVERAL times with nothing to back it up, which is one of my main problems with you right now.

This is sad, people are so opinionated that they don't realize that they are wrong.

My word, the hypocrisy is astounding.

I mean several people tonight said that Squirtle isn't a playable character.

"Several"? Try, like, two.

People are constantly saying that I was wrong about Squirtle even though Sakurai himself posted on his site that you can play as Squirtle!

You ***. Like, the first 20 people to respond to this since the update CONGRATULATED YOU on being right.

Characters like Bowser Jr or Wolf I'm not too fond of, but if they appeared in Brawl I wouldn't be that offended. I would still buy the game and I wouldn't think twice about them being there. But for now I will state which character I believe are worthwhile for Brawl.

As long as you actually start stating your opinions AS opinions, go for it.

But Lucario... I would actually be very disappointed if he appeared in Brawl. Which is why I made this thread, which is why I'm still against him.

Fair enough. Be against him. He could still be in. Don't say he can't be.

I hope today gave some of you people a slap of reality. You're not always right you know

My word, I wish I could tattoo the word "hypocrite" on your forehead.

maybe you should think more about your character choices before you make banners about them. Otherwise you might end up looking like a fool.

That's the risk people take. And no one looks like a fool yet (aside from maybe the Goroh and Deoxys fans)

I still say Squirtle is a playable character. I don't care what anyone else says against Sakurai's site.

Fair enough.

I'm incredibly disappointed at the way you handled this, Sandman. Your arrogance shocks me.

 

[kaid]

You may be right... but my point about including the latest-and-greatest stands.

Sakurai made Pichu hurt himself because he put effort into representing the mascot of the 2nd gen. (misplaced effort, true, but in this case, I believe it's the thoght that counts)

 

[ClarkJables]

Sandman. The emotion I'm currently feeling is indescribable. I cannot believe how arrogant you are. I thought you were a good person, which is why I bumped this thread. I did it so that you could have some limelight. I figured you'd bask in the glory for a minute then stop, but you've clearly grown quite the ego. Rather than accepting some form of "victory" in a humble manner, you start throwing out wild claims about lowering Lucario's chances (that have still yet to be backed up) and go on to make a post as hypocritical as THAT?! I'm thoroughly humiliated that I was stupid enough to think you were nice.

Now, for the picking apart of your post.

You've made no good counterpoint. Not one.


You've already basically said that SEVERAL times with nothing to back it up, which is one of my main problems with you right now.


My word, the hypocrisy is astounding.


"Several"? Try, like, two.


You ***. Like, the first 20 people to respond to this since the update CONGRATULATED YOU on being right.


As long as you actually start stating your opinions AS opinions, go for it.


Fair enough. Be against him. He could still be in. Don't say he can't be.


My word, I wish I could tattoo the word "hypocrite" on your forehead.


That's the risk people take. And no one looks like a fool yet (aside from maybe the Goroh and Deoxys fans)


Fair enough.

I'm incredibly disappointed at the way you handled this, Sandman. Your arrogance shocks me.

i was a goroh and deoxys fan though....

 

[SuperSmashKing009]

But I heard that Lucario will Probably be replacing Mewtwo! I not lying because I know how everyone would feel when others Lyed.

 

[Circus]

i was a goroh and deoxys fan though....

Then I feel for you. Though, I don't really care for either one myself.

My point is that Sandman shouldn't be talking about any Lucario fans looking foolish. He acts as though he's already been deconfirmed, when in reality, The PT confirmation doesn't have one single thing to do with Lucario's chances. I have no idea what kind of logic he's attempting to apply with that, but it's none that I'm familiar with.

 

[Johnknight1]

Here's the thing, you were a jerk to me right before I even knew you. So I decided to treat you the same way. Need me to prove that WW Link shouldn't be in Brawl? Okay, I'll take a shot at this one....

Well first off, if you noticed, every character follows a particular style. I'm sure you noticed this with Link, since he is Twilight Link, as well as there being a Twilight Zelda, and of course Bridge of Eldin.

But theres more, this occurs for almost every character. Jungle Beat DK, with Bongo Final, and the Rumble Falls level. Pokemon Ruby is being represented with Deoxys and Groudon. Soft cute version of Yoshi with a Yoshi Story level.... and so on.

So if they are representing Link from the Twilight version, then Sakurai is most likely going to keep him that way. Twilight Link is the best looking Link we have ever seen so far. And having a cartoony WW Link just wouldn't fit with the Zelda team. Their style for Brawl is based on a realistic look. Characters on teams all look alike and have similar styles, so why would Zelda break that mold?

I wasn't a jerk, I said your reasoning was stupid. You didn't have solid proof why Lucario shouldn't be in Brawl, you had pure bais points. I ase my reasons on 6 things: Popularity, Sales&Stats, Pro-Brawl fanbase, reconizability, being more wanted then not, and roll in video gaming. Lucario excels in most of thos categories, while Squirtle excels in two. He's also teamed with 2 other Pokemon, and you'll BE FORCED TO SWITCH between them in combat.

Graphics don't matter, I'm sorry. We have a cel-shaded stage, all the Pokemon thus far are cel shaded or semi-cel shaded, Kirby is cel-shaded and MK is probably semi-cel shaded, etc. But since when do sells lie, he's more important to Nintendo then all Star Fox, Fire Emblem, Kirby, EarthBound, F-Zero, Yoshi, Wario, Ice Climber, Animal Crossing, and Game and Watch character.

Samus and Zamus at least both look realistic, and they also both appear in the same game. If Ridley appreared and a Zero Mission level was up, I wouldn't be surprised at all. Since they are all probably going to be shown as the Zero Mission versions.

As for attacks, you're forgetting the very basic items Link has. A sword and shield. If you look at Melee and see how Link and Young Link compare, you might notice a difference. If Y. Link was never in the game I bet Link's air attacks would have been much better, but since he had to split up his attacks the strength of his air attacks went to Y. Link. It happened to Mario and Dr. Mario. And in the trailer we can see Mario's FAir attack has changed to Dr. Mario's attack. So we should hope that there is only one Link, that way he can be the best possible Link we can have.

His swordfighting style is almost completely original. Just watch gameplay of Wind Waker, and compare it to every Zelda game [minus it's sequal Phantom Hourglass].

As for Slippy, he has appeared in every single Starfox game. Something Wolf can never accomplish. Not to mention the unfortunate similarities between Fox and Wolf. I mean I guess I wouldn't be THAT upset if Wolf appeared in Brawl, but I definitely prefer Slippy over Wolf any day. I'm sure if Wolf didn't appear in the next Starfox game fans wouldn't notice. But if Slippy disappeared the game wouldn't feel right at all.

But he has little popularity, no one really wants him, and is barely reconizable. He has less going for him than Squirtle.

You sound really dumb when you try to convince me that Squirtle isn't a playable character and that I was wrong. You must have picked up that habit from Stryks.

There was bound to be one wtf character, and that was it. The G&W of Brawl as I call it. That's like saying the people who predicted Samurai Goroh and Dexoys were stupid. Besidesm Squirtle is one of THREE! You are forced to switch between them, and can't get too comy with any of them. You can't change constantly, and you can't stay as one the whole time lke with Shiek and Zelda. Other wise you'll get destroyed! And what did Stryks do, he didn't do anything stupid=??? He's one of the more respected SWF memebers, and for good reasons.

 

[ClarkJables]

i can explain to you why it lowers lucario's chances. because up until now people said that 1st gen rep will only be jiggs, m2, and pika, AND that the only other addition would be a 4th gen pokemon that so many people want in for reasons i can't fathom. and when PT showed up you have to go, woh wait a minute. nobody and i mean nobody thought this guy had a minute fraction of a chance of 1% of getting in, and he got in. so in that respect it lowers lucario's chances, he is no longer definite as so many lucario fans say and he is waiting with all other pokemon to know is he got in or not


and to johnknight1 your argument has a few holes in it. one is that zelda and shiek were the same character but you see how everyone only ever played shiek. noone is putting a gun to your head and forcing you to change pokemon, it may not be wise to not change them but you are by no means forced. encouraged is the word you are looking for.

ok i am now going to break down that list you made for lucario

1. recognizability, lucario is not that recognizable. not many people outside pokemon, or even old pokemon fans know him. and might i add that as far as 4th gne goes the most recognizable pokemon seems to be munchlax since he has a mega japanese fanbase and is considered by most to be the mascot of the 4th gen pokemon, so in that respect lucario fails
2. pro-brawl fanbase- almost every character has a pro brawl fanbase. deoxys, hammerbros., goroh had pro-brawl fanbases and big ones i might add. deoxys rivaled lucario's, goroh was for a long time the generally accepted 2nd rep for f-zero, and hammerbros had a cult following. now snake or pokemon trainer had next to none pro brawl following and they are both in, so fanbases don't mean that much when you think about them.
3. popularity goes hand in hand with recognizability and pro brawl fanbase
4.being more wanted then not, after deoxys got pokeballed and blaziken was dropped as a lost cause, yes he was more wanted then not. but then again noone wanted pichu in melee and he snuck his way in.
5. stats & sales- as far as games go this is mostly circumstancial. the ds is a better system then the gameboy and is more popular and more recognizable, also pokemon was more known then then it is now as far as games go. remember that in america the tv show and cards game first, not the games. and as far as the anime series goes which plays an important part in the pokemon verse the 4th gen show has lost allot of steam compared to the others. now this can also be taken hand in hand with recognizability. i bet people can name off more pokemon from the first gen then from the 4th, and also the sales argument only helps the gneeration, not lucario since the sales cannot be attributed directly to him.
5. role in gaming, as far as inovation goes, it hasn't done much. if you have ever played earthbound you'd notice that pokemon borrows allot from it, also monkey puncher as far as menus, feeding, and stats go. so in that respect, no it was not that important to gaming. collosium but that series got old after the first game.

 

[kaid]

Striks DID lose his temper... not that I blame him, when faced with Sandman's ego.

And Clark, most of the character lists I've seen have included at least 1 3rd gen, as well as Lucario.

 

[brawlpro]

lucario can g'head and replace pichu.

 

[SuperSmashKing009]

All you guys are haters for Lucario and you thats really messed up!

 

[Circus]

i can explain to you why it lowers lucario's chances. because up until now people said that 1st gen rep will only be jiggs, m2, and pika, AND that the only other addition would be a 4th gen pokemon that so many people want in for reasons i can't fathom. and when PT showed up you have to go, woh wait a minute. nobody and i mean nobody thought this guy had a minute fraction of a chance of 1% of getting in, and he got in. so in that respect it lowers lucario's chances, he is no longer definite as so many lucario fans say and he is waiting with all other pokemon to know is he got in or not

I can see where you're getting this, but certain variables make it pretty weak.

Do we know how many characters will be in Brawl? No.
Do we know how many of those characters will be Pokemon reps? No.
Did Sakurai himself say anything about Lucario not being in? No.

It was never a sure thing that Lucario would be in, but he isn't a shoe-out now. His chances only get lower in the sense that all the other pokemon's chances have grown higher. Lucario still has a bit of importance to him, which is why Pikachu is in, and why Mewtwo and Jiggs were in before and may be in again. Saying that Lucario has proven to be out (he literally said that) is absolutely ridiculous.

 

[Johnknight1]

lucario can g'head and replace pichu.

Pikachu: Stay, you have fanbase.
Jigglypuff: Stay, your unique moveset is awsome!
Mewtwo: No, STAY! You're our best villian, you can't go anywhere. Stay please. *stays*
Poke'mon Trainer: WTF, that's brilliant. We want to add you to the roster.
Pichu: *stabs Pichu* Lucario: Great, we were look for a replacement for that mess! *stays*

 

[kaid]

Pikachu: Stay, you have fanbase.
Jigglypuff: Stay, your unique moveset is awsome!
Mewtwo: No, STAY! You're our best villian, you can't go anywhere. Stay please. *stays*
Poke'mon Trainer: WTF, that's brilliant. We want to add you to the roster.
Pichu: *stabs Pichu* Lucario: Great, we were look for a replacement for that mess! *stays*

Exactly what I've been saying. You sum it up well.

 

[MDupont]

I've been to many Pokemon forums like Serebii's and PokeCommunity and tons of people have signatures with Lucario in them either as banner or in their trainer card. The reason why Munchlax is less popular is most likely because he is very hard to find in DP, and the fact that no one would really want to main Munchlax in DP if you catch my drift. They will wait for Snorlax.

Fact is, Lucario has popularity no matter you turn. He is the most logical out of all of the 4th generation.