The Most Controversial Thread on the Site! (Originally the Anti-Lucario/Pro Squirtle)

[Nergal]

you have a point nergal, i mean when AT's were confirmed we all thought it set a bar for who got in and who didn't, and now it feels like PT broke this bar in half and threw it at us, so now we can assume or expect nothing, and that is how it decreases lucario's chances, because now you CAN'T say he is a definite.

Of course he's not definite, but you're right. Sakurai most likely meant this update as a statement.

 

[ClarkJables]

i didnt say that, i said it shows which generation he is favoring. i mean we've got 4 1st gen pokemon so far, and it is unlikely jiggly or mewtwo aren't returning so thats 6 1st gen pokemon.

 

[_the_sandman_]

I can't believe that people are still convinced Lucario is going to be in the game. At this point there are 4 Pokemon characters. I'm sure Jiggs is back since she was in the first two games. And Mewtwo is too unique and important to remove from Smash.

I mean, not to gloat or anything... but I told many of you that a more recognizable character was going to appear in the game. And who is more recognizable than the actually Pokemon Trainer himself! I'll be honest I didn't see that one coming.

If any Pokemon character can truly represent the Pokemon franchise, it WOULD be the character that everyone uses in the game. And hey, will you look at that? He also has the three most memorable starters with him as well!

Face it people, Lucario has nothing at this point. Pokemon Ruby/Sapphire is next in line for the Smash series, and the tenth aniversary for Pokemon is around as well! Of course they're going to make the playable pokemon characters the most famous ones.

Its sad seeing some of you Lucario fans find every excuse to why he will be in the game. Sakurai just unleashed his personal Final Smash onto all of you! THE SAKURAI BACK HAND!

 

[ClarkJables]

i know, i saw that update and i saw this thread and i thought to myself "this guy bet on the horse with a broken leg and won". i don't know, lucario might still have some shot but he is definitely not definite anymore, which i never thought he was

 

[the grim lizard]

I can't believe that people are still convinced Lucario is going to be in the game. At this point there are 4 Pokemon characters. I'm sure Jiggs is back since she was in the first two games. And Mewtwo is to unique and important to remove from Smash.

I mean, not to gloat or anything... but I told many of you that a more recognizable character was going to appear in the game. And who is more recognizable than the actually Pokemon Trainer himself! I'll be honest I didn't see that one coming.

If any Pokemon character can truly represent the Pokemon franchise, it WOULD be the character that everyone uses in the game. And hey, will you look at that? He also has the three most memorable starters with him as well!

Face it people, Lucario has nothing at this point. Pokemon Ruby/Sapphire is next in line for the Smash series, and the tenth aniversary for Pokemon is around as well! Of course they're going to make the playable pokemon characters the most famous ones.

Its sad seeing some of you Lucario fans find every excuse to why he will be in the game. Sakurai just unleashed his personal Final Smash onto all of you! THE SAKURAI BACK HAND!

I kind of agree. And instead of an explanation, I give you two links:

http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=deoxys&word2=lucario
http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/items/mball/mball03.html

 

[Stryks]

Ok give me the link where it says all 64 characters are returning... no? then STFU about jiggly returning, read kirbys profile...

Pikachu, trainer are the ONLY comfirmed characters Ive seen so far, and mewtwo is like a boss in the series, adn should be added...

Seriously u feel all high and mighty because ONE 1st gen character has been aded (not counting pikachu), ok pokemon is nintendos 2nd or 3rd best series, I highly doubt were just getting 2 characters, and all of them from the 1st gen...

so far u have proven nothing about lucario NOT being in brawl, besides u wanted squirtle SOLO, and he isnt so u techically dont win...

Why would R/S get representation? u said it urself they should just add 1st gen and pokemon recognizable with the older fans, and yet S/R are like what3-4 years old? seriously...

So far theres plenty of spots left for lucario... and I havent seen ANY proof that theyre just gonna add 1st gens... and no ONE newcomer aint proof...

 

[ClarkJables]

that brings up sad memories grim, i was so depressed that day that deoxys got pokeballed, especially after goroh got AT'd.

to styrks,
he wins because he said "wouldn't squirtle be a great character for brawl" and you all laughed at him and called him an idiot for even suggesting him, and now squirtle is in brawl and so far lucario isn't, so in that respect he is right.

and even though they are one character they are 4 1st gen pokemon. pikachu, charizard, ivysaur, and squirtle. they are all PC in one form or another so they each count. so so far that is 4 1st gen pokemon to no other pokemon reps, now at this point noone is definite, and lucario still has high chances, but you CAN'T gloat around about him now, and you can't say he is definite and then laugh at anyone else who thinks otherwise.

 

[the grim lizard]

Ok give me the link where it says all 64 characters are returning... no? then STFU about jiggly returning, read kirbys profile...

>_< Are you serious? Stryks, you lose. He was talking about Kirby compared to Link, Pika, and Mario. Go watch the beginning of the e3 2006 trailer.

 

[_the_sandman_]

Well Lucario being in a Pokeball is possible. But I even doubt they'll go that far with him.

To be honest I'm still in shock that Squirtle is actually a playable character! And my actual favorite character made it into the game which is surprisingly better! (Which is Ivysaur!)

 

[Stryks]

I'm sure Jiggs is back since she was in the first two games.

There u go...

"Yeah... He’s the only character who really hasn’t changed much from his appearance in Super Smash Bros. Melee."

He means in general, sure it could mean just the 4 main returners, but if it was he would have mentioend it...

Seriously sandman, lucario would be playable, do I need to remind you who had his own movie? yeah lucario...
"wait but he aint legendary nobody knows him its blasphemy!!"
hey not my problem... he has a good shot being in brawl, and if for some reason sakurai loses his mind and doesnt add him, theres always pokeball...

 

[the grim lizard]

He means in general, sure it could mean just the 4 main returners, but if it was he would have mentioend it...

That's a bigger assumption than thinking all original characters will return.

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/movies/movie01.html

 

[MDupont]

Pikachu, Pokemon Trainer, Jigglypuff, Lucario, and Mewtwo sounds like a good roster to me. Mario will have to pull out another character or two so they can tie, but I'm sure it will all work out.

I do believe Lucario will be in since it was revealed aroun the time SSBB was being announced I believe. The movie was released in July 2005 so Sakurai may have knowledge of Lucario. And Sakurai sounds like someone who will stop at nothing to get who he wants in the game. He could have had contacts with Game Freak and wanted samples of some upcoming Pokemon so he can add them to Brawl. Yes, the Pokemon are planned out WAY in advanced, they basically spend most of the time programming the game.

It's really not that hard to believe that Lucario has a chance of being in the game. It's either that, or Munchlax. I just with all the downers would shut up already. ;/

 

[Yukiwarashi]

Congrats, sandman! This was a victory for both of us!

 

[Stryks]

Grim he could have meant either the 4 starters or the entires roster...

and FTLOG I already SEEN the **** trailer I get it...

 

[the grim lizard]

Pikachu, Pokemon Trainer, Jigglypuff, Lucario, and Mewtwo sounds like a good roster to me. Mario will have to pull out another character or two so they can tie, but I'm sure it will all work out.

"Which one of these is not like the others? Which one of these just doesn't belong?" What makes people place unmerited faith in Lucario's inclusion? There's been absolutely no proof that that he would possible be in, except that some people around here really want him to be...

Grim he could have meant either the 4 starters or the entires roster...

and FTLOG I already SEEN the **** trailer I get it...

The reason I think it's the former is because whenever I watched it, we always laughed and said "wow, Kirby didn't change at all." The natural response would be: "Yeah...he's the only one who hasn't changed much." Not saying Jiggs will be in or not, but...I don't htink that statement says anything about its inclusion.

 

[_the_sandman_]

Marth being removed is one thing. He only appeared in Melee and he was originally in a Japan only game. Not to mention Ike is a much better replacement.

Pichu being removed makes sense since he was a CLONE in Melee.

Jiggs returning still makes sense to me because she has seniority in the Smash series. Not to mention her massive amount of popularity.

Mewtwo returning makes sense as well. He was the original "best character" in the pokemon series. And he is the big bad guy everyone remembers. Not to mention an all psychic character is unique to the Smash series.

So theres 4 characters on the Mario team - Mario, Luigi, Peach, and Bowser
4 on Pokemon - Pikachu, Jigglypuff, Mewtwo, and Trainer.

Pokemon CANNOT surpass the Mario team. Therefore we are stuck with those four pokemon characters. Like it or not, thats the way its going to be!

 

[Stryks]

There's been absolutely no proof that that he would possible be in, except that some people around here really want him to be...

and was there any absolute proof Pit, metaknight, SNAKE, zamus and Pkmn Trainer to be in??

 

[the grim lizard]

and was there any absolute proof Pit, metaknight, SNAKE, zamus and Pkmn Trainer to be in??

What's your point? No one was going around before their announcement entirely certain they were going to be in...

 

[ClarkJables]

to MDUPONT, i believe he wanted bowser and peach in the original smash and that didn't happen. sure you have a point, that those sakurai shows interest in have increased chances, but you said sample of upcoming pokemon, not samples of lucario. for all we know he could be interested some random 4th gen pokemon, or lucario could already be in, at this point nothing is certain, but it is fun to get back at the lucario fans by saying, look, popularity or generations don't matter. you said lucario is in and no other pokemon has a shot, hell your main opponent deoxys got pokeballed so you had reasons to feel superior. and then comes pokemon trainer and that shatters your superiority, now you have to sit, wait, and hope like the rest of us, you have been humbled

 

[_the_sandman_]

Hey Stryks, I saw you making fun of me the other night on these boards because I was a Squirtle fan.

All I can say to you is.... IN YOUR FACE!

 

[ClarkJables]

exactly, just like when deoxys was pokeballed and you all laughed in our faces "told you so! he got pokeballed neener neener neeener". i have to tell you revenge is sweet

 

[The_Corax_King]

Five Pokémon isn't asking too much IMO...

Pikachu
Trainer
Jigglypuff
Lucario
Mewtwo

If Melee had 4, why can't Brawl have 5? The percentage of total characters would probably remain similar...

4/26 = about 15%

5 pokemon would require about 32 total characters to keep the same ratio, and that seems like a really small amount.

 

[Stryks]

Hey Stryks, I saw you making fun of me the other night on these boards because I was a Squirtle fan.

All I can say to you is.... IN YOUR FACE!

*In my face?! OMG I CANT LIVE LIKE THIS!! (SUICIDES)*
I dont care, I reall don't, Technically u didnt win either, SQUIRTLE AINT SOLO...

and grim im not saying:
OMG LUCARIO WILL BE IN AND B DA PWNZO0R!1!!11

Im saying his chances are high, hes popular, has his own movie, hes on the newest gen (which sold more on its 1st week than the other versions, I know i say that a lot, but making a point) besides, hes reasoning of lucario NOT being in is more biased, and hes practically saying hes unconfirmed, when NOTHING has been announced...

Hes saying only 1st gen will be in the game, where the proof? hes saying more n00bish crap than me, and yet I say lucario and the squirtle gang starts falming, which is a lod of BS...

and clark: I was supporting deoxys genius...

 

[ClarkJables]

sandman did win styrks, i explained this before. he suggested squirtle, you all laughed and threw rocks at him, and now squirtle is in.

also lots of pokemon are popular and have their own movie, and i think at this point generations don't matter. if it was then sakurai would balance out the gens and not put in 4 ist gen pokemon, even if 3 of them are on their own slot

 

[Stryks]

There ARENT 4 1st gen characters, the 3 pokemon of trainer's ARENT characters, either wise they would get a profile each JUST LIKE ZAMUS.... theyre just playable attacks... so so far theyre only 2 1st gens...

 

[_the_sandman_]

*In my face?! OMG I CANT LIVE LIKE THIS!! (SUICIDES)*
I dont care, I reall don't, Technically u didnt win either, SQUIRTLE AINT SOLO...

and grim im not saying:
OMG LUCARIO WILL BE IN AND B DA PWNZO0R!1!!11

Im saying his chances are high, hes popular, has his own movie, hes on the newest gen (which sold more on its 1st week than the other versions, I know i say that a lot, but making a point) besides, hes reasoning of lucario NOT being in is more biased, and hes practically saying hes unconfirmed, when NOTHING has been announced...

Hes saying only 1st gen will be in the game, where the proof? hes saying more n00bish crap than me, and yet I say lucario and the squirtle gang starts falming, which is a lod of BS...

and clark: I was supporting deoxys genius...

How did I not win? If I recall Squirtle can be playable! What are you? Stupid?

Lucario will not be in Brawl, face it kid..... with all of the evidence I have provided on this thread, as well as Sakurai Back-handing all of you Lucario fans, Lucario will NOT be in Brawl!

 

[the grim lizard]

Five Pokémon isn't asking too much IMO...

Pikachu
Trainer
Jigglypuff
Lucario
Mewtwo

If Melee had 4, why can't Brawl have 5? The percentage of total characters would probably remain similar...

4/26 = about 15%

5 pokemon would require about 32 total characters to keep the same ratio, and that seems like a really small amount.

Yes, but...

"Which one of these is not like the others? Which one of these just doesn't belong?" What makes people place unmerited faith in Lucario's inclusion? There's been absolutely no proof that that he would possible be in, except that some people around here really want him to be...

 

[Circus]

Although I do concede defeat to you, Sandman (hell, I was the one that resurrected this thread) I think you're a little too certain of Lucario's absence from Brawl. You do win in the sense of Squirtle being in (you were honestly the first thing that popped into my mind when I saw Squirtle on the screen), but the "anti-Lucario" half of your argument doesn't hold anymore water than it did before.

There are only 2 pokemon characters confirmed right now. You can throw out technicalities about the pokemon the PT has being characters, but the fact is that there's still plenty of room for more pokemon. Yes, each of the starters probably took tons of time to create, but I can't imagine ONLY those two characters (Pika and PT) on the character select screen as Poke reps. If anything, this might actually INCREASE 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gen chances due to the fact that they've killed 3 birds with one stone. We have 4 first gen reps for the price of 2.

You can bet that there will be more pokemon reps on the character select screen than that (I very much doubt that they'll have LESS spots reserved than they had in Melee) and the idea that they'd fill those spots with MORE first gens sickens me. I see no reason to do that. I'd bet more pokemon will be in than the ones we've seen, and Lucario has just as much of a chance at taking one of those spots as he's always had.

EDIT: By the way, I'm starting to regret bumping this thread. I did so to admit defeat, and several people did the same. We humbly lost. You, Sandman, seem to be being what is known as a "sore winner" about this whole deal. I didn't expect that. . . .

 

[ClarkJables]

now sandman, i support you in your victory, but don't get to cocky just yet. lucario still has a shot just like every other pokemon, and we can't count him out until he is either pokeballed or revealed not to be in the game at all when brawl comes out

and they do count as seperate, zelda and sheik were technically the same character but they turned out on opposite ends of the tier list, so unless they are all treated like one character, which they won't, they still count

 

[Stryks]

Ok sandman u and me:

1) WHAT evidence? just because we got ONE 1st gen we automatically assume we get 0 2nd, 3rd and 4th gens??

2) how is sakurai back handing lucario supporters? JUST because he show ONE newcomer from another gen that AINT 4th? how is that a back hand? WERE GETTING MORE CHARACTERS! and so far I dont see ANY proof that all leads to: Brawl = 1st gen ONLY...

3) U wanted him solo, he aint... its more lik 65/35, in ur favor, because u can use suirtle, but not by himself...

Even CLARK whose on YOUR side agrees ur too confident, so far knowing sakurai NOTHING is certain...

 

[Bassoonist]

Although I do concede defeat to you, Sandman (hell, I was the one that resurrected this thread) I think you're a little too certain of Lucario's absence from Brawl. You do win in the sense of Squirtle being in (you were honestly the first thing that popped into my mind when I saw Squirtle on the screen), but the "anti-Lucario" half of your argument doesn't hold anymore water than it did before.

There are only 2 pokemon characters confirmed right now. You can throw out technicalities about the pokemon the PT has being characters, but the fact is that there's still plenty of room for more pokemon. Yes, each of the starters probably took tons of time to create, but I can't imagine ONLY those two characters (Pika and PT) on the character select screen as Poke reps. If anything, this might actually INCREASE 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gen chances due to the fact that they've killed 3 birds with one stone. We have 4 first gen reps for the price of 2.

You can bet that there will be more pokemon reps on the character select screen than that (I very much doubt that they'll have LESS spots reserved than they had in Melee) and the idea that they'd fill those spots with MORE first gens sickens me. I see no reason to do that. I'd bet more pokemon will be in than the ones we've seen, and Lucario has just as much of a chance at taking one of those spots as he's always had.

QFT.

Seriously, I agree 100%. I just can't see those being the only Pokemon reps.

 

[the grim lizard]

Two 1st gen. PCs, likely one or two more. Pokeball trend is 3rd gen. so far, with few 1st and 2nd thrown in. And...Deoxys (arguably more popular than Lucario) is Pokeballed.

 

[Stryks]

Grim just because deoxys won the google fight doesnt mean hes more popular, I mean japan dont like cool looking pokemon, take that in consideration, and have u ever seen the pokemon battle poll??
Dont get me wrong, I like deoxys way more, but that doesnt mean my fav is more popular...

 

[_the_sandman_]

Although I do concede defeat to you, Sandman (hell, I was the one that resurrected this thread) I think you're a little too certain of Lucario's absence from Brawl. You do win in the sense of Squirtle being in (you were honestly the first thing that popped into my mind when I saw Squirtle on the screen), but the "anti-Lucario" half of your argument doesn't hold anymore water than it did before.

There are only 2 pokemon characters confirmed right now. You can throw out technicalities about the pokemon the PT has being characters, but the fact is that there's still plenty of room for more pokemon. Yes, each of the starters probably took tons of time to create, but I can't imagine ONLY those two characters (Pika and PT) on the character select screen as Poke reps. If anything, this might actually INCREASE 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gen chances due to the fact that they've killed 3 birds with one stone. We have 4 first gen reps for the price of 2.

You can bet that there will be more pokemon reps on the character select screen than that (I very much doubt that they'll have LESS spots reserved than they had in Melee) and the idea that they'd fill those spots with MORE first gens sickens me. I see no reason to do that. I'd bet more pokemon will be in than the ones we've seen, and Lucario has just as much of a chance at taking one of those spots as he's always had.

Well lets say there are 4 pokemon characters, and a total of 40 characters in the game. That's 1/10th of the roster, which is a lot when you think about it!

Mario only has 4 members on his team, theres no way Pokemon can surpass it. I strongly believe Sakurai is smart enough to keep the most famous characters in this game. Jiggs is huge all over the world, believe it or not. And Mewtwo is just as popular, he did have TWO movies and he even appeared on the show.

Seriously, 1/10th of the possible roster. How many Pokemon do we need to represent the franchise? Lucario is a goner, trust me.

 

[OysterMeister]

Seriously sandman, lucario would be playable, do I need to remind you who had his own movie? yeah lucario...
"wait but he aint legendary nobody knows him its blasphemy!!"
hey not my problem... he has a good shot being in brawl, and if for some reason sakurai loses his mind and doesnt add him, theres always pokeball...

Deoxys also had his own movie, but he got pokeballed. Not that movies mean much, every pokemon and their great-grandmother has had their own movie by now.

I think the biggest strike against Lucario right now is numbers. Poke-trainer isn't just one character, he's three whole characters, all tied together. Add Pikachu and that's four Pokemon in Brawl. Add Jiggs and Mewtwo and that's six.
I find it highly unlikely that Sakurai will have more than six Pokemon in Brawl, which means that Lucario right now would have to replace either Jiggs or Mewtwo, which I find equally unlikely, considering they're each far more important to the series.

I'm sure he'll make it as a pokeball pokemon, but with the addition of Poke-trainer taking up three brand new pokemon slots, I'd say his chances of anything greater are pretty slim.

 

[_the_sandman_]

Stryks, you sound really dumb when you talk. I just wanted you to know that.

Quit saying that I'm wrong, seriously, you're making a fool out of yourself! Squitle is a PLAYABLE CHARACTER!

 

[ClarkJables]

Ok sandman u and me:

1) WHAT evidence? just because we got ONE 1st gen we automatically assume we get 0 2nd, 3rd and 4th gens??

2) how is sakurai back handing lucario supporters? JUST because he show ONE newcomer from another gen that AINT 4th? how is that a back hand? WERE GETTING MORE CHARACTERS! and so far I dont see ANY proof that all leads to: Brawl = 1st gen ONLY...

3) U wanted him solo, he aint... its more lik 65/35, in ur favor, because u can use suirtle, but not by himself...

Even CLARK whose on YOUR side agrees ur too confident, so far knowing sakurai NOTHING is certain...

its a definite backhand because you guys thought no other pokemon suggestion was viable except lucario. you were dancing for joy when your only real competition, deoxys, was pokeballed, and now three pokemon noone ever thought would make it made it, so yes, it is a backhand. actually it looks the match starts with squirtle and you can choose to use only squirtle, same with zelda/shiek in melee, so it is a hundred percent win. and although it is 1 first gen character slot it makes 4 first gen pc pokemon so far and none from any other gen. an i have explained how generations have no relevance anymore, what makes 4th gen so much more deserving then 2nd or third, if its because its the most recent then lets just start promoting 5th gen pokemon. and basically this means that lucario is not a definite, he is equal to all other pokemon now, and all you can do for him is sit and wait

 

[The_Corax_King]

Please tell me...

We have two Pokemon characters... and assuming Jigglypuff and Mewtwo are returning... who else would you add?

Five pokemon characters is not unreasonable, and who else would you use to add a fifth? (assuming pichu is removed of course...)

 

[the grim lizard]

Grim just because deoxys won the google fight doesnt mean hes more popular, I mean japan dont like cool looking pokemon, take that in consideration, and have u ever seen the pokemon battle poll??
Dont get me wrong, I like deoxys way more, but that doesnt mean my fav is more popular...

Lucario and Deoxys aren't "cool looking." I'm in agreement with them anyway. They have good taste. They want Ridley in but not Meta Ridley. They don't want the lame/"cool looking" Pokemon in. They want the interesting ones.

The only credit I give Lucario is that he isn't near as lame as Deoxys. But both of them are pretty lame. I mean, DNA and Steel?? Give me a break!

Please tell me...

We have two Pokemon characters... and assuming Jigglypuff and Mewtwo are returning... who else would you add?

Five pokemon characters is not unreasonable, and who else would you use to add a fifth? (assuming pichu is removed of course...)

Meowth? I dunno...I could see it happening...(not my nomination, but others will attest to it.)

 

[Stryks]

Pokemon wont surpass mario, but whats confirming mario will only get 4 representations? if anything contenders like bowser jr, geno and toad solidy at least 5 maybe even 6 marios...

how about 5 pokemons?:
Pikachu
PT
Mewtwo
Lucario
Munchlax

munchlax has a huge shot, ehll I dont even suport him but admit it, his chances are far greater than any other pokemon besides pikachu, hes consider the mascot of the 4th gen and is INCREDIBLY popular in japan...

NOTHING and I mean NOTHING confirms only 1st gen, and no 4th/3rd/2nd gen pokemon in the game, and just because we have ONE (and I mean ONE) newcomer, whose a 1st gen, it automatically means we'll only get 1st gens...

WTF grim ur saying steel and DNA (which isnt a type) are lame, and yet u want a normal-type cat?...


@ SANDMAN: Answer the questions...

@ clark: I WAS A DEOXYS SUPPORTER, DEOXYS!! I didnt LAUGHED when deoxys was deconfirmed, hell I MADE the deoxys for brawl sig! and I HIGHLY doubt sakurai is laughing at lucario fans by showing a 1st gen newcomer... seriously...