The Metagame Discussion Thread

[Terra~]

I played competition at my school and when I started bringing along Stealth Rock people thought I was stupid. Haha, that was funny. It might kind of over-centralize the game, "forcing" you to have a rapid spinner or what not. But anyways, all in all it's an excellent move to have. You **** the **** out of bug, fire and flying type and hm ice too I think. I made one person I played with go mad, and I mean freaking crazy pissed off at me for having brought stealth rock. Ah good times

 

[MorphedChaos]

Hm... Question, how could I get a good competitive Gardevoir? I've got a scarfed one which seems to do good on Wifi, but then thats Wifi.

 

[Circa]

Timssu, that set's terrible for a number of reasons. Vaporeon is one of the best defensive pokemon, maxing it's speed is useless. Secondly, if you wanted to baton pass to Blissey it needs to be modest. Third, if you're baton passing to a pokemon that's supposed to sweep it needs to be able to sweep. Swampert will roar that *expletive* out in a second.

The set was more or less for moveset, not EVs. And for the record, I've never used either of them. Also note that I said I just got it off the top of my head, meaning that I never bothered to look up base stats. Mix that together and you get a bit of a misguided overall set. But meh, whatevs. Although also note something not quite right on your end. I said 'if they don't have a phazer', which basically means RAWR KILL THE PHAZER. I only mentioned two Pokemon together on a team. There's another four slots to prepare for the likes of phazers and wall-breakers. Just something to note.

 

[Terra~]

Hm... Question, how could I get a good competitive Gardevoir? I've got a scarfed one which seems to do good on Wifi, but then thats Wifi.

Gardevoir is a pretty good alternative to Alakazam. I've picked her just because she's way more sexy.

A scarf can be a good plan. I've never been fond of scarfs or whatnot but I guess it compensates for her lack of speed.

Thing is, she tanks WAY better than special. Heck even the physical is better.
Just go something like this (if you want to keep the scarf)
Gardevoir@Scarf
Modest
252 HP, 252 SpAtk, 4 Spd (Go more speed if you don't feel as confident, lower the HP)

Psychic
Thunderbolt
Shadow Ball
Focus Blast

You get a pretty solid sweeper right there. Play with the moves. Energy Ball isn't that bad (I wiped a Rhyperior in a tourney by guessing a swap, it was awesome)

But if you don't go scarf. Tank, status etc. is wicked sick

 

[Wave⁂]

Gardevoir is know for its expansive support movepool, with Hypnosis, Light Screen, Reflect, Will-o-Wisp, Taunt, Wish, Memento, and Trick. Its excellent base 125 SpDef makes it a decent special wall if you don't want to go the offensive route.

 

[Chill]

The set was more or less for moveset, not EVs. And for the record, I've never used either of them. Also note that I said I just got it off the top of my head, meaning that I never bothered to look up base stats. Mix that together and you get a bit of a misguided overall set. But meh, whatevs. Although also note something not quite right on your end. I said 'if they don't have a phazer', which basically means RAWR KILL THE PHAZER. I only mentioned two Pokemon together on a team. There's another four slots to prepare for the likes of phazers and wall-breakers. Just something to note.

I mean, once Blissey was "set up" there's nothing stopping Swampert (or some other pokemon) from coming in and making sure that you just wasted two turns. Your Blissey didn't have any moves that could hurt Swampert. That's what I was saying, she can't sweep with two attacking moves. It's far too easy to wall her.

If you're not even going to bother to look up base stat's or at least be familar then you shouldn't be giving advice. I'm not trying to a jerk I'm just trying to stop the spread of bad advice.

 

[Platypus]

wckd, your mention of the fact that Stealth Rocks

**** the **** out of bug, fire and flying type and hm ice too I think

is exactly why they are not worth having. Fire-types were already on strings from Rock-Ground combinations and the sheer number of Water-types; Stealth Rocks wiped most of them off entirely. Almost no Bug-types are viable in OU because they can seldom prevent Skarmory from whipping them into the pointy stones. Most importantly, I can't use Jumpluff because it needs the Focus Sash to work properly...
Jumpluff...O
held on. OO

 

[Twilight_Galaxy]

I like the idea of 3v3 battles I think the metagame would be transformed though maybe simplified. Either way it would be a nice fresh alternative

 

[Rose]

I played RSE a lot back in the day with a bug mono team. I enjoyed myself, developing ways to get around LOL I STALL U teams. In DP, running a bug mono seems impossible because of SR. I dunno, I haven't played much DP, I should probably try harder before calling it quits. SR is pretty ridiculous on bugs though.

 

[CRASHiC]

I was crunching some numbers last night, and I was amazed that Quagsire did so well against Metagross.
With Damp, Metagross can't really do anything against Quagsire.

 

[supermarth64]

I was crunching some numbers last night, and I was amazed that Quagsire did so well against Metagross.
With Damp, Metagross can't really do anything against Quagsire.

Unfortunately, if it's the Mixgross type (still out there, just not as common as the other sets), then it can nab an OHKO on Quagsire with Grass Knot..

Bulky water set:
257 Atk vs 166 Def & 394 HP (80 Base Power): 464 - 548 (117.77% - 139.09%)
Curse set:
257 Atk vs 214 Def & 394 HP (80 Base Power): 360 - 424 (91.37% - 107.61%), which is a 41.03% of OHKOing without SR and a 79.49% of OHKO with SR up.

 

[Wave⁂]

...Mixgross?

Stats:

| Metagross  | Move         | Earthquake       |    80.8 |
| Metagross  | Move         | Meteor Mash      |    67.3 |
| Metagross  | Move         | Explosion        |    61.1 |
| Metagross  | Move         | Bullet Punch     |    52.7 |
| Metagross  | Move         | Stealth Rock     |    40.2 |
| Metagross  | Move         | Thunderpunch     |    28.1 |
| Metagross  | Move         | Agility          |    17.4 |
| Metagross  | Move         | Ice Punch        |    12.6 |
| Metagross  | Move         | Zen Headbutt     |     7.0 |
| Metagross  | Move         | Trick            |     5.4 |
| Metagross  | Move         | Other (9)        | <   5.0 |


| Metagross  | SpAttack EV  | None             |    96.4 |
| Metagross  | SpAttack EV  | Other (2)        | <   2.2 |

Source

 

[CRASHiC]

****, I forgot Metagross can learn grass knot.
Wait, can he not? Now I'm confused.

 

[supermarth64]

It's in the analysis, but no one uses it. Just trying to right a wrong statement.

He can learn it, but almost no one uses it.

 

[Circa]

****, I forgot Metagross can learn grass knot.
Wait, can he not? Now I'm confused.

He can learn it, but it's very rare to see one that has it. Basically what he gave you is a list of the moves most used for Metagross' moveset. Grass knot would fall under the 'other' category along with 8 other moves, meaning that your chances of running into a MixGross with Grass Knot are about 1.11% if you also consider that your standard MixGross is set to run HP Fire (which also falls under 'other') with Grass Knot.

This does make me wonder though. Why don't more people use the MixGross set? Metagross isn't exactly lacking in the SpA area (even if it does pail in comparison to his Atk), and it does make a lot of his usual counters rethink their switch-in.

Hmmm...I might have to try this on my Sandstorm team. Never really thought about using it before, and now I'm not sure why I didn't.

EDIT: Ninja'd by supermarth. D:

 

[Terywj [태리]]

What would this MixGross set even look like?

-Terywj

 

[CRASHiC]

Ah I see, that list he provided was of the most used moves, not the list Metagross can use. I see.

copy pasta from Smogon
Mixed Attacker
Life Orb / Expert Belt Naughty
252 Atk / 124 SpA / 132 Spe
~ Meteor Mash
~ Earthquake
~ Hidden Power Fire
~ Grass Knot
a mixed Metagross would be scary, and greatly limit his counters down to essentially Rotom.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Of course he could run Pursuit on that set instead of Hidden Power Fire, but then loses coverage against Skarm. =\

-Terywj

 

[Circa]

Of course he could run Pursuit on that set instead of Hidden Power Fire, but then loses coverage against Skarm. =\

-Terywj

Somewhere in the description of the set it mentions Shadow Ball, which I'm guessing is meant to replace HP Fire (I don't believe it specified in this description though). I think that part just comes down to what your team has a weakness against.

 

[Wave⁂]

ScarfTar ***** the metagame.

 

[ss118]

That it does. Breloom ***** scarftar, though, and breloom is a scary thing to give free turns to.

I've had fun that takes advantage of this very simple fact: get SR, a bunch of pokemon scarftar comes in on(latias, starmie, etc), and breloom and you are good. randomly focus punch **** ftw

 

[kirbyraeg]

nobody likes dugtrio anymore

keep a scarfer in the wings after you revenge their dumb scarftar and then you **** with all those fun base 115s

 

[Wave⁂]

I've been pondering HP Fighting Latias as a ScarfTar lure. Thoughts?

 

[CRASHiC]

what's with the talk of banning Latias? Any merrit behind it? They all sounded pretty serious on the podcast.

 

[Wave⁂]

Latias is being considered because of Specs ripping **** apart.

A really bad reason, IMO.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Are we going to be using both threads? Mood4Food also made a thread on OU.

-Terywj

 

[Gates]

Necro.

Latias isn't going to be banned. It's not that versatile and it's not that centralizing.

The only thing I really took out of that podcast was that AgiLucario can be not too bad. I still liked it though.

 

[Wave⁂]

AgiLucario sounds like a weaker, frailer, faster AgiliGross.

 

[ss118]

I'm about to post a big RMT soon about a whole new team arch-type that has been thought of very little(if at all).

Get pumped.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I'm about to post a big RMT soon about a whole new team arch-type that has been thought of very little(if at all).

Get pumped.

Trick Room / Gravity/ Tailwind.

-Terywj

 

[ss118]

Nope. there has been successful TR/ Gravity teams, and Tailwind has been attempted.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Nope. there has been successful TR/ Gravity teams, and Tailwind has been attempted.

I got it. It's a Sunny Day Baton Pass with bits of Tailwind team!

Anyways, I would like to have this thread linked to from the Stockpile...

-Terywj

 

[NJzFinest]

AgiLucario sounds like a weaker, frailer, faster AgiliGross.

Yeah, only thing AgiLucario has going for it is STAB CC.
I guess I'll play around with it though, it looks fun to use.

The podcast got me interested in LO Sceptile, SpD Skarm and Leadchamp w/ BP as well.

 

[Wave⁂]

PP stall team.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

PP stall team.

Oh GG.

Grudge, Pressure, Encore...

-Terywj

 

[Riddle]

Writer and I built a pp stall team pretty hilarious. Raperachi was the best (cm/iron defense/wish).

 

[ss118]

Cosmic Power + Substitute would be better for PP stalling.

 

[Riddle]

The team was mostly a joke but Jirachi was meant to sweep.

I think the team was:

Sub/WoW/roar/Roost Moltres
Sub/Twave/roar/Roost Zapdos
SR/Spikes/Roost/WW Skarmory
Scarf Starmie with Recover
Wish/Iron Defense/CM/Flash Cannon Jirachi
annnnnnd Idk what the last one was

 

[choknater]

lol

i have a cute jirachi like that

but even cuter.

wish
cosmic power
charge beam
doom desire

 

[Wave⁂]

chok wins.

By a ****load.