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Guide The Mario Match-Up Discussion Thread

j3ly

Smash Champion
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Mar 19, 2009
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i wonder who actually reads A2's posts, i sure as hell dont, unless i need to quote. its good to know - there is always reliably rubbish information in your posts, which i can pull out at will. I've yet to read ur above post, lets take a look shall we:

*reads post*

And so tell me...when do you get to fireball Samus's Bombs when she DIs well like ANY player is supposed to?
ladies... i give you A2ZOMG! *people leave disappointed*




*claps*

unless ofc you were refering to her being too high up to fireball. in which case she gets vertically KO'd lol, samus is a superfloaty char u numpty
 

A2ZOMG

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Right....go ahead and fireball her if she absolutely has to recover low. I totally condone doing the smart and unexpected.

But what are you going to do against Samus when she recovers high? B-air isn't going to kill her for ages due to her weight. And your only vertical KO move is Up-smash. And it's not easy to land on Samus. More likely than not, her floaty stature just lets her Bomb Jump more after taking a hit from B-air.
 

A2ZOMG

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N-air is same story as B-air...not going to kill her or anyone for a long time. Sure it's a bit stronger than B-air, but if you're relying on that for KOs, she's still surviving too long.

More importantly, how does Mario approach Samus? She outpokes you with all tilts, WD backwards F-smash anti-airs you really well, and her CC game is better than yours. Not to mention Up-B out of shield and WD -> Jab. Until Mario has a consistent answer to this, I can't see this matchup being anywhere near even.
 

n0ne

Smash Ace
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Jan 25, 2009
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wait..... what?

I share A2ZOMG`s opinion. what noticable samus have u played?

MARIO is the one that has more trouble vs samus... maybe because u guys havent played any good samuses, but against her, mario really has to use his head. let me list a few reasons.

-STUPID UP-B OOS!!! although we can up b too to get out of something sometimes.
Especially our front angled up-b. takes off like 10 coins= 10 %. something like that

-Her CCing!! this ***** us because of downsmash/dtilt counter. ultrapunish with dair to make that ***** learn to not CC against plumbers. Fair is good also because of hitstun.

-Her Uair messes us up. Has more priority than our dair. up in the air is bad place for mario

-Bombs mess up mario a lot at close play . all he can do is roll to get out of the way if he is (semi)trapped in them. with c stick for buffering.

- Spotdodge to downsmash. People have no idea how much havok this wreaks. this leads to bad DI, because it comes out fast and sometimes unpredictibly, u practically have to reverse DI to save yourself.

-Multiple spotdodges. This can do OR undo Samus . If you are good with predicting, then this can be punished with fair to grab/fsmash/dsmash/nair. Or with Charging smash attacks, or timed grabs

-Her Recovery. Who said samus is easy to edgeguard? her recovery is i think one of the top 4 unpredictable recoveries. fireball is good for bombs, but decent samuses always reserve their jump until after the bombing to recover. so this techniclly does not work against her in advanced play. btw, cape almost NEVER WORKS. something i find useful to kill her when she is recovering is jump off stage reverse cape to bair like i do in my vids. this helps the not too good knockback because you hit her waaaaay off the stage and helps for the kill.

Our Upair is not very good against her. sure it works everynow and then but if u rely on this youll only get naired everytime

And there are numerous more issues in this MU. U guys should rethink your facts or head out and play some samus. some good samus.

In the end, samus is gay (Lesbian? w/e) against mario, and mario actually has to play legit against her. i hate this MU and usually just play it for bragging or anti-gayness expression.
All Mario has against her is cape for onstage mindgames/to force her to change her playstyle/repel missiles,shots. His fair, and his speed. Oh Fsmash and dsmash are nice too. Abuse dair for her not too CC.
 

StealthyGunnar

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i guess every1 who disagrees w/ a2.

im not really good w/ mario, but im just gonna go ahead and say that samus def has the advantage. u cant combo her, i just hate her. falcon boards r all like ya her weight lets u combo her at low percents. bull**** i cant combo samus w/ falcon, or w/ any1 really...
 

A2ZOMG

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i guess every1 who disagrees w/ a2.

im not really good w/ mario, but im just gonna go ahead and say that samus def has the advantage. u cant combo her, i just hate her. falcon boards r all like ya her weight lets u combo her at low percents. bull**** i cant combo samus w/ falcon, or w/ any1 really...
Falcon actually beats Samus last time I checked though. I mean sure Samus is floaty, but the way Falcon is, he actually prefers comboing floaties for the most part. Especially if they're really tall like Samus is.

And people say Mario's U-air ***** Samus? Naw...that would be true if you replaced "Mario" with "Falcon". Falcon's U-air ***** people who have limited juggle escape options.
 

StealthyGunnar

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Falcon actually beats Samus last time I checked though. I mean sure Samus is floaty, but the way Falcon is, he actually prefers comboing floaties for the most part. Especially if they're really tall like Samus is.

And people say Mario's U-air ***** Samus? Naw...that would be true if you replaced "Mario" with "Falcon". Falcon's U-air ***** people who have limited juggle escape options.
im not saying that cf loses to samus, i just cant combo her at all w/ any char. i guess thats the point i was tryin to make
 

A2ZOMG

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I'm just saying, Falcon does combo floaties better than the vast majority of the cast.
 

M@1funk$hun

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I'm just saying, Falcon does combo floaties better than the vast majority of the cast.
because of the long range on most of his moves, but this isn't scar's omgwtfbbqweplayfalconthereforeweshouldwinallthetime thread. it's a plumber thread.
yeah they CC but you can just predict it
it's called a shield
and UP-B OOS is still a factor of interest to me. I have no clue how to beat it other than no shield pressure or massive
and I mean MASSIVE
mindgames

as for approaching samus...
you should......
i mean like......
sometimes you can.....
....
DOWN B APPROACH =3
srsly samus is extremely hard to approach. fsmash/tilt is almost unbeatable. what I like to do is dash attack to clank with whatever she puts out then throw out a jab cuz the momentum from the dash carries you toward her a bit
 

j3ly

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space. u can hit her shield with fair and uair and she cant do anything atall, same with jab, up tilt, ftilt, backwards usmash, SH dair (to poke). bair works to, but it comes out fast so you dont get as much out of ur shield stun, unless its a late bair. that might work. you can deal with her grab on reaction so all you really have to deal with is WD(move)oos - as long as you space. fsmash is a beauty, with practice you can shield poke as and when the opportunity comes.. you have to build an affinity with shield stun, size and spacing.

try AC uairing her shield -> pivot late bair -> fsmash or somethin i dunno.. the timings vary for different people. stuff like spaced jab -> pivot backflip over their shield -> dash dance uair works at the right time on the right people. learning when people go into shield is big in smash, or reacting. confuse them in the moments that they can do nothing, because you out range there oos options. try keeping them in shield through intimidation then fsmashing the exposed body. i think we have a frame advantage over grab (atleast), if we AC -> jab jab. that works on all grabs. even late fair -> jab is quicker than a grab, im not talking samus specifically here - the outspacing of an opponents oos options to gain momentum, fsmash or grab applies from all characters to all characters, its essential play imo.

late fair works to a grab if you aren't predictable with it. spacing against somebodies shield puts them in a bad position
 

M@1funk$hun

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actually I saw this in some axe vids where he would always nair through the shield. it was a great option because it can't be shield grabbed, still puts on pressure, and basically gives the opponent sh bair out of shield because if they WD they can get grabbed and FH leaves them in a bad position. also the sh bair can be CC.

ANYWAY I tried something like this with our dair and it worked with some success. it has to be multi hits though. like I tried it with uair and they just punish it too hard because of the lack of shield stun
 

KirbyKaze

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but this isn't scar's omgwtfbbqweplayfalconthereforeweshouldwinallthetime thread
..........you're aware that like 65% of the discussion on the Falcon board is bemoaning how much Falcon sucks, right?

I'm not sure that j3ly understands that by constantly having to do late aerials to counter Samus Up+B OOS/CC/whatever Mario pretty much has to go into battle without a hitbox protecting him and therefore she can stick pretty much any ranged move in her arsenal in Mario's general vicinity and beat his approach (barring "mindgames"; even after "mindgames" depending on what she did she might be safe anyway).
 

M@1funk$hun

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well the only other option we have other than those late aerials is come in with a nair, which is easily beat
or FH dair which I'm not too crazy about because thats beat by just WD back or more CC

all in all I really think she is unapproachable
 

StealthyGunnar

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keep dding until samus missile cancels and right as u see her jump, run forward and cape the missile. shell prob dash attack it, but that's ok if ur standing far enough away so u wont get hit, then fair > grab> dthrow> bair > bair.
 

A2ZOMG

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D-throw is pretty bad against Samus, unless she's at like 0 and you do D-throw -> U-tilt. Getting her offstage with F-throw or B-throw is better in this matchup.
 

M@1funk$hun

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it's good for racking up some quick dmg at low percents. don't use uthrow though, it sends her too far up and you don't really have any followups
try and use fthrow because it's DI'd less than bthrow
 

condemned_soul

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i Dthrow>full hop dair>uair/nair depending on if fully lucky enough to get away with more. its not guarnteed but ts nice for a semi combo.
 

StealthyGunnar

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lol how bout just shield > upB, run away? shes so heavy but floaty at the same time that if u hit her w/ up b she go flying like those paper airplanes in the night sky

i could use a wish right now
 

M@1funk$hun

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both of those things are not probable
if you pull it off, kudos
but with DI and the strict spacing needed to platform cancel it
it's like me actually doing my homework. it's just not gonna happen
 

A2ZOMG

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As I said earlier, ICs are 60/40 Mario.

You space them well with F-smash. You separate them easily with B-throw. That's all there really is to this matchup.
 

M@1funk$hun

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I like fthrow better because it's quicker just incase I grab the wrong one
but yeah same basic idea
ice cubes aren't much of a threat
be care for them blizzarding your approach
and thats about it

oh btw don't get grabbed (hurrr durrr)
 

A2ZOMG

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I don't like to say "don't get grabbed" in this matchup. That implies you're supposed to deliberately go out of your way to not get grabbed, when in fact grabbing them first is easier to do and much more productive.

But if you're going out of your way to not get grabbed, it's as simple as spacing F-smash well. Spacing aerials in this matchup is generally too hard when they are together, and imo is the only reason why Boss gets ***** by ChuDat in this matchup as Mario specifically.
 
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