Guide The Mario Match-Up Discussion Thread

[condemned_soul]

lets keep the subject on MUs people. whos next?........

my vote is jiggs

 

[MarioMariox2]

I vote Luigi.

 

[n0ne]

n0ne: Sweeeeeeeeet

Where in CA?

Social thread ftw

Japan is the best
*Fact

At more than just 'gadgetry'
lol

Nicaragua.
I think Luigi should be next i personally have some trouble against him and Samus

 

[Bamesy]

Luigi
My specialty

 

[n0ne]

haha yeah i kinda hate that matchup.
Priority is your enemy in that matchup... i mean.. its manageble , but... almost ALL HITS ARE TRADES... unless grabbing is involved.. but yeah.

Samus too.. anybody in favor?

ooohh... for Marf... CCing to grab is nice, or CCing to get close-nair
for mindgames, while he is recovering, u can cape him but this has to be done reversely.. as in.. getoff stage, then, turnaround cape him a little below the ledge. This makes marf turnaround and also makes him go a bit higher. After this you just punish his ultramega upb landing lag. with upsmash for the kill or spaced f smash or dsmash even

 

[Blanky]

haha yeah i kinda hate that matchup.
Priority is your enemy in that matchup... i mean.. its manageble , but... almost ALL HITS ARE TRADES... unless grabbing is involved.. but yeah.

Samus too.. anybody in favor?

ooohh... for Marf... CCing to grab is nice, or CCing to get close-nair
for mindgames, while he is recovering, u can cape him but this has to be done reversely.. as in.. getoff stage, then, turnaround cape him a little below the ledge. This makes marf turnaround and also makes him go a bit higher. After this you just punish his ultramega upb landing lag. with upsmash for the kill or spaced f smash or dsmash even

omggg yess luigi! that match-up is so annoying haha but i play against luigi a lot. i just try to keep one step ahead of them. instead of going up and attacking them blindly, i wait till either after they miss an attack or when i know that i can hit them first. hard to explain haha. their b-air is real good against marios, but gimping him is not hard at all. just keep them away from the edge, they're up b goes pretty much straight up. cant thing of anything else haha.

 

[THE RED SPARROW]

Luigi's Nair owns 90% of Mario's approaches and pseudo-combos. Foward Smash, Uair and Down Smash whoring (smartly, not spamming) is what I find key in the matchup.

 

[condemned_soul]

Luigi's nair=CCCCComnbo Breaker

 

[M@1funk$hun]

updated post to start discussing Luigi by popular demand
first off I'd like to say

secondly, some basic luigi knowledge that I've come across is to mess up his momentum
with characters like fox/falco they need very little to start their momentum
with luigi if you let him slip and slide enough he'll fall start outspeeding you
the basic idea with this guy is to get some early hits on him, or get him in the air because he is really floaty but doesn't have the best air control
tl;dr don't let him be grounded and gain momentum

 

[MarioMariox2]

As Bamesy put it: Luigi plays a lot like falcon.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Luigi is SO MUCH EASIER than everyone is implying. I think the vast majority of Mario users play this matchup completely wrong, since most of their matchup experience is against Falcon, Space Animals, and Sheik.

The matchup is dead even at worst. You just have to have a completely different mindset against Luigi. Comboing him with U-airs will get you ***** in this matchup. Stop doing that. Just U-tilt when he's above you. He can't answer it. It will beat EVERYTHING HE DOES ABOVE YOU, and it frame traps his airdodge nicely. Honestly Luigi really should not be getting away with N-air against a Mario who knows how to space U-tilt.

The usual motions of spacing and edgeguarding apply just fine in this matchup. Honestly this matchup is really simple once you have Luigi above you and focus on good spacing as opposed to rushdown. Generally speaking I think Mario users need to use more U-tilt against other Mario characters. It's a **** option just since all incarnations of the Mario bros are horrible at working around it when being juggled.

 

[StealthyGunnar]

so basically luigi has no chance.

 

[A2ZOMG]

The most you have to worry about from Luigi is his superior ground approach and of course getting edgeguarded by his B-air. In the air, Mario shuts him down better provided you don't jump into the **** stupidly. I personally find it confusing when Mario mains complain about Luigi's N-air breaking their combos. It's not a real issue, since U-tilt >>>> Luigi's aerials.

 

[M@1funk$hun]

from what your saying a mario ditto is going to consist of wd -> utilt and nothing else

 

[StealthyGunnar]

mario dittos r poop.

 

[condemned_soul]

i enjoy mario dittos..... maube because there arent that many mario around here -_-

 

[StealthyGunnar]

i dont like them cuz ive never done 1. lets say 55 45 mario? (about luigi)

 

[M@1funk$hun]

^^ agreed
we def have the advantage over luigi

 

[StealthyGunnar]

every1 vote on #s then:

M@l and I vote 55 45 mario./

 

[condemned_soul]

i also vote 55/45 in marios favor

 

[StealthyGunnar]

alright 3/3 55 45 mario.

 

[MarioMariox2]

55/45 because they're sorta even in terms of follow-ups and attack priority. But Luigi's easy to gimp recovery and (since SSBM is quite aerial-based) which makes this slightly (but definitely) in Mario's favor.

 

[StealthyGunnar]

alright i think its safe to say that every1 thinks its 55 45 mario./

 

[n0ne]

whaaaat? i think this shouldnt be true... meh, this matchup shouldnt even be 50-50.

I agree with the matchup being manageble but in the end luigi has a better time against mario than the other way around

edgeguarding luigi while he is close to the ledge is pretty easy but u never know when he´ll get a (whats it called?) super front B and just get back or even Ko mario.

everybody knows his priority... and he actually moves faster on the stage thanks to his wavedash. All mario has is a bit more range .. and combos... and these have to be perfectly spaced.
I feel This matchup needs to be reflected on a bit more. We´re talking advanced play, not 2002 stuff

Can Bamesy or any other Luigi main comment on this?

 

[StealthyGunnar]

well i havent played any good luigis, im just goin on the evidence.

 

[A2ZOMG]

edgeguarding luigi while he is close to the ledge is pretty easy but u never know when he´ll get a (whats it called?) super front B and just get back or even Ko mario.

That move is never an issue if you edgeguard normally with invul frame abuse. Every so often he might get back on stage free, but most of the time gimping him with B-airs shouldn't be that hard.

everybody knows his priority... and he actually moves faster on the stage thanks to his wavedash. All mario has is a bit more range .. and combos... and these have to be perfectly spaced.

Mario DOESN'T have combos on Luigi. He has a MUCH better anti-air though, and he can set up a trap situation with D-throw much better.

Luigi has a better ground approach though, and most of his moves will kill noticeably earlier when gimps are not factored. But his relatively low range and his bad air approach makes him infinitely more manageable than say space animals or Ganondorf. Like, I wouldn't use Jabs to stop space animals or Ganondorf from approaching. But against Luigi I would definitely consider it. And he gets punished hard when Mario anti-airs him.

I feel This matchup needs to be reflected on a bit more. We´re talking advanced play, not 2002 stuff

I think a lot of advanced Mario users are much too used to rushdown styles when they could opt to use simple spacing tactics that do the job better. Take Boss vs Chudat. His Mario gets ***** by Chudat's ICs, but it's really only because Boss is super aggressive. In reality, Mario is extremely good against the Ice Climbers when he focuses on F-smash spacing and B-throws.

 

[n0ne]

@ A2ZOMG alright bro im with you with the ice climbers things... but i still think its necessary for a luigi main input. i actually think this is easier for doc than mario.

Oh... and the misfire thing... remember i said close to the ledge edgeguarding... i know its easy to abuse the i. frames .. and his up b is not too good if u actually know how to counter it before or after the hitbox but i was talking far away.. Also in the matchup.. nair is very good against him but i repeat... against luigi.. what mario pretty much needs is perfect spacing to land his uairs, bairs or other ground moves.

Luigis massive WL covers alot of each stage.. but this can be good. but also bad.. because excessive movement from a waveland can be punished. but unpredictablity can be our rapetivity also.

Please Bamesy, or other, input so this can be clarified from your pov.

 

[condemned_soul]

well i went to the weegee boards and notified them that we are doing this MU....hopefully its only a matter of time now before them come add their 2 cents

 

[MarioMariox2]

Us Marios for some reason play like we're Falcon. We should play smarter. We have lot's to do, so let's get crackin'!

 

[A2ZOMG]

^LOL too true man.

I feel like I should upload more vids of my Mario (the ones I have up right now are well...a little old). Just because I think I play just totally differently from the vast majority of people because my playstyle is just so spacing oriented and light on combos outside of chaingrabs.

 

[j3ly]

camp the platforms > luigi

 

[M@1funk$hun]

wouldn't luigi be dominant on the platforms because he can waveland with such ease?
or did I just say something stupid?

 

[Winston]

I feel like you can force a stalemate if you really want to just run away on platforms. But how are you winning by doing so?

 

[condemned_soul]

Gustav what do you mean? are you a luigi main?

 

[StealthyGunnar]

i think he plays mario. think aboujt it, luigi falling in air is hella slow.

 

[M@1funk$hun]

what he means is that if your just on the platforms the entire time, then a good luigi will most likely wait you out on the ground where he has the advantage.
which means I'm going to approach the luigi, because, well, lets be honest. I'm very impatient.

 

[Winston]

Yeah sorry I'm a Luigi main. I play Mario too though.

 

[MarioMariox2]

which means I'm going to approach the luigi, because, well, lets be honest. I'm very impatient.

This is true for most marios. This is our character foil.

 

[StealthyGunnar]

so we dont approach luigi?

 

[MarioMariox2]

It's not that we don't approach him, it's just that we should approach on the ground.