Guide The Mario Match-Up Discussion Thread

[M@1funk$hun]

I'm faving those links. mad useful
I'm still sticking to my guns of 65/35

 

[n0ne]

hmm id say even... or a little bit in g&ws favor cuz g&w actually has good **** against the higher tier charcters ... his good recovery cant be caped by cape (except Doc`s, cause it goes lower than the edge) and...... Chute and Pandoras box are ****.

I should know im a g&w main also.

Also g&w doesnt really need to shield against mario he can just space fairs.... id think mario has anything that outranges that.. and mario cant really uair g&w alot at high %s cuz of his featherweight. g&w edgeguards very well and can go soooo off the edge to gimp and still make it. marios uair and dair are nice againt g&w, also, i find tilts a bit more useful in this matchup.

Lol just on 7-1 on DKC returns and noticed g&w stellar apearence. too good.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I dunno, your D-throw shenanigans on him and your ledgedrop B-air edgeguard on him are pretty cruel. And you can feasibly camp him. Low % juggles on him work better than they should as well, and while his F-air and D-air annoys you a lot, he does have to respect your F-smash.

Those are the main reasons I say the matchup is slight Mario adv, but I do agree G&W is really good in this matchup.

 

[condemned_soul]

i dont know i think this could be almost even or in mario favor. its like a game of who messes up first gets messed up. jabs seem to be very effective against G&W.

if a G&W is in the air, would Uair blind be able to combo him after Bairs?

 

[M@1funk$hun]

nah uair blind doesn't work on him

 

[condemned_soul]

is it me or do we need to move on to another character

 

[M@1funk$hun]

the only reason I called the thread Axe is because he's the only pikachu that's popular
there's also this guy named shoopman who I played at ROM3/Apex. he's legit lol

I can't contribute much to this topic other than utilt. it beats Pika's nair which is the main approaching tactic
I've also found jumping and uairing after they send in a jolt work. or jumping and nairing. (jumping to avoid the bolt)

 

[condemned_soul]

D throw his *** to hell and back

 

[MarioMariox2]

Vs Pika: Get the grab first.

 

[StealthyGunnar]

then cg and uair>fsmash i presume?

 

[MarioMariox2]

then cg and uair>fsmash i presume?

Indeed cause if they get the grab first, they can do the EXACT. SAME. THING. D:

 

[condemned_soul]

so whats the ratio for this MU

 

[StealthyGunnar]

pikachu!!!!!! *thunder* akljas;ldjf.

uh 60-40? idk

 

[condemned_soul]

if thats in our favor i agree lol

 

[StealthyGunnar]

i just guessed lol, sure it's in our favor... >.>

 

[n0ne]

weird.... they both cant really gimp eachothers recovery, no true/legit combos for everyone, only downside is mario has to be careful of pikas u-sm ash
55-45 Mario.

 

[M@1funk$hun]

pikachu can't gimp us? explain. there have been pikas that just jump out and nair against me and I was ****ed. not even to mention the tailspike.

 

[MarioMariox2]

pikachu can't gimp us? explain. there have been pikas that just jump out and nair against me and I was ****ed. not even to mention the tailspike.

Yeah, I'd like an explanation on this as well. Dair OOS hits like a weak Doc Fair.

 

[j3ly]

if you DI the initial hit that sends you offstage she cant do either

 

[M@1funk$hun]

she can still jump upwards and tailspike you
then again if you predict that when you're above the stage you can just dair
so that makes sense

it seems like when j3ly posts in here it's always something along the lines of "good spacing" or "better DI"

 

[condemned_soul]

lol once we get it down he wont have to say it anymore

 

[M@1funk$hun]

hopefully
till then we'll just keep on sucking XD

so I'm gonna put 60/40 our favor for the ratio. cool?

 

[condemned_soul]

55/45 mario favor just incase someone wants to debate 60/40. im not in the debating mood today

 

[n0ne]

if your really careful you can always up b tailspike while your recovering. its actually kind of dangerous for pika to go too out of stage to try to edgeguard mario. same thing for mario because pika gets so fast to the ledge. mario can recover a little higher than pika to mess up predictability too.

dair, uair up b and even cape mess up tailspiking . just watch out for the ledgehog from pika afterwards. this is usually a worse threat so remember to use your down b/ cape/capestalling/ direct up b with nothing else at all to mix up your recovering. remember to angle up bs to the front for close-call recoveries

yay DK. been waiting for this, ledge invincibilty up b ****s my *** so much while coming back to the stage, also that ape never dies from mario i give this 65-35. g&w even has a better time against him

 

[StealthyGunnar]

do we have the advantage over dk? never really fought a dk, ever.

we can combo him, but ive noticed good dks like mexican r hard to gimp.

 

[n0ne]

yup. all DK needs is mario to use his jump then its rapeville.
Mario can take advantage of DK with no jump to a lesser extent because it easier for dk to escape while in air (up b gives almost no landing lag). He combos him nicely but cannot kill.

 

[StealthyGunnar]

that sucks. comboes and more combos but no finishers. i suppose fsmash, but a good dk will di and not die, then make sure we cant gimp em. he cant really combo us tho. i mean, mostly mediocre dumb, escapeable crap.

 

[n0ne]

yup. then w/ no jump left, after unescapable crap from DK, a sweetspotted grounded up b will send us flying very very far away, and since it comes out so suddenly and unpredictably, ..... expect baaad DI

 

[M@1funk$hun]

whenever a DK is recovering I jump out (if they're slightly above the ledge) do a dair and jump to reverse bair. the dair has a nice angle so it breaks through his upb and the reverse bair can be substituted for a nair if you think you're close enough to the stage

oh and I'm sure everyone knows this already but you can't cape DK's recovery. I'm just saying it for the sake of having as much info as possible

 

[A2ZOMG]

Vs Pikachu: 65/35 Mario

You have better priority and combos than him, and your chaingrab into potential free KO is too good to ignore. He could win somehow if you're careless about your recovery, but otherwise it's totally uphill for him.

Vs DK: Haven't played this matchup enough. I think Mario probably wins. It's just for simple things like how DK just dies to grabs when you get close since his spotdodge blows and leaves him at frame disadvantage when used in reaction to grabs. And you can pester him with a projectile. When he's facing towards you, he pretty much has grab. When he's facing away from you, he pretty much has B-air. I'm not sure about KOing him. All I really want to know at this point is what grab combos are viable on him. It's something I've been too lazy to test, but if you can KO him at like 140 with D-throw -> U-smash, you don't really have much to worry about in this matchup.

Also, you can definitely Cape DK, but you have to actually jump out and hit his hand. F-airing his recovery is almost worthwhile as well (dorkai walljump F-air on FD/FoD anyone?).

 

[n0ne]

hey offtopic i think excessive rolling, getup attacks and spotdodges are the most noobish things in melee ill explain later drunk right now

oh and spotdodges too lol

 

[StealthyGunnar]

tell em n0ne!

EDIT: i hate dk. mario > Dr. mario, mario ***** pikachu?

 

[A2ZOMG]

Mario does **** Pikachu yeah.

You chaingrab him to like 90% or something with D-throw. I forget. Mario's D-throw is RETARDEDLY good against Pikachu. F-smash or U-smash him after it or something.

Your tilts and aerials for the most part are better than his. Pretty much the only way you should be losing against Pikachu is if you let him U-air gimp you 4 times in a row. Otherwise he can't really kill you easily since his KO setups are pretty bad.

 

[n0ne]

so yeah most noobish stuff in melee.

getup attacks - This is the most noob stuff of all, deserves place #1
This is laughable , i understand sometimes it comes out by accident at fast play but when people only do this they really do not know how to play correctly the game that is melee. ledge getup attacks are ok tho im talking about the ones where u dont tech.

spotdodges - this comes out from spacies alot it actually is fast and is for escaping stuff with gayness but real men dont use spotdodges it isnt even useful 4 characters I.E. falcon is too slow with it its better just to run away . With mario I sometimes do it like once honestly to escape shieldgrabs but u actually have to analize first, i prefer rolling with c stick, its safer.

I like to go Falcon and techchase people who do these 2 pieces of n00b cake.
For the record, check this out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBR4aHc1JdI
This guy really likes to getup attack, at that date i didnt really space very well but with time and analizing nowadays i no longer have trouble with that

Excessive rolling - this is actually more of a bad habit than noobness but could be catagorized as both. I.E there are people than when are close to the ledge ALWAYS roll into the stage . learn to punish this ridicule act with a smash attack or fair to something as mario.
With falcon or ganon i dair all dai long.

Dash attacks- I forgot about this one. what is this. honestly. dash attacks are garbage in melee, by me this only comes out by accident when im shuffling. what good is marios dash attack? doesnt work 4 ****, and there are other character whose dash attack are bad too. honestly i only do it with young link or samus because it is understandable; they need that KO power , peach does it too but shes a little broken so meh, but when i see spacies do it , its just sad because they actually dont need it, they have a whole arsenal of good moves at theyre disposal they dont need dash attack. i always learned to play without it its actually a bad move.

I made it long, but there IS sense in all this im saying ppl should try to start playing without these things and youll see u actually start to play better.

 

[M@1funk$hun]

the dash attacks are used to continue combos/start combos. they work

I will agree ours sucks elephant testies though

 

[n0ne]

yeah but higher tier character have so many options and people resort to dash attacks when the characters doesnt really need that attack . its good to do it but its the spam im talking about

 

[M@1funk$hun]

I was trying to find this combo of a fox techchasing another fox with about ~10 dash attacks, but figured I was just misunderstanding you.

i also looked at the higher level play (PP v M2K specifically) and you're right, I didn't see a single dash attack

nor a counter by M2K, but then again every move has special uses
like our dash attack can get under some smashes, which is how I use it. basically just a mix up tool imo

I getup attack a lot... >.<

also punish rolls with a grab like c. falcon, fair works too but I prefer a dthrow

 

[StealthyGunnar]

i accidentally press l or r too early lots of times and dont tech

 

[n0ne]

i accidentally press l or r too early lots of times and dont tech

yup. happens. understandable. im sure almost every player that likes techchasing says the same thing as me. the only real places i found getup attack good for is.
1- if u miss a tech close to the ledge, and oponent is recovering, getup attck then edgehog. IT REALLY IS gay but, may help for 1 stock ill post a vid soon, on how to do this intentionally and without help of a trade or something similar.

2- not really a when to use moment, but it actually is better to getup with up on control stick.
is fasted, if oponent is close, you can grab, or if u want, c stick roll. oh yeah but this is situational remember.

3- IDK drunk again

btw, hey! im a dad! lil while ago, 9:15 pm, Jr was born. Went out to celebrate. Gotta take care of him these first days then gonna get into smash again. whew

 

[Blanky]

yup. happens. understandable. im sure almost every player that likes techchasing says the same thing as me. the only real places i found getup attack good for is.
1- if u miss a tech close to the ledge, and oponent is recovering, getup attck then edgehog. IT REALLY IS gay but, may help for 1 stock ill post a vid soon, on how to do this intentionally and without help of a trade or something similar.

2- not really a when to use moment, but it actually is better to getup with up on control stick.
is fasted, if oponent is close, you can grab, or if u want, c stick roll. oh yeah but this is situational remember.

3- IDK drunk again

btw, hey! im a dad! lil while ago, 9:15 pm, Jr was born. Went out to celebrate. Gotta take care of him these first days then gonna get into smash again. whew

i agree dude. and congrats on the kid!!! just in time for new years