THE Mario Guide (LEDGE TRICKS/PLANKING FINISHED [i think])

[A2ZOMG]

I read the guide. It's okay, but it has a lot of glaring flaws and doesn't cover certain things about the current metagame. Basically meaning we should not use it at all.

 

[Mario_ 101]

I know my guide is nowhere near perfect. And it probably never will be, but I'm going to try as hard as I can to make it perfect. It doesn't look like I'm going to finish it before summer, it's taking a lot longer than I thought. Once I post all the sections I'll update each one continueuslly. Right now I'm working on all star so I can get it out of the way, I'm about halfway done with the all star segment.

 

[Varinox]

I would say the guide has flaws, yes some of which are glaring.. but since it really is one of the few mario guides on smashboards why not use it?

 

[Mario_ 101]

K every1. All star is finished. yay. I just did HRC, but if any1 has anything they'd like 2 say about it, lemme know cuz i don't specialize in that area. I won't be updating as much during the school year bcuz of homework and other stuff every1 hates, and I get lazier during this time of year, but I'll be updating quite a bit during thanksgiving week. And if any1 wants 2 fight me via wi-fi lemme know.

 

[vato_break]

Where's the combo section?
well since there isn't one these are some combos i use...

dashattck>upsmash (only works at the low percents)

uptilt>upair (many uptilts /upsmash can be done)

fireball>dthrow>upair

fireball>downsmash

fireball>nair>downsmash

Fair>jablock (works around 60% if your opponent doesn't tech)

Upsmash>upsmash>upair>bair(many variations)

fireball>nair>dtilt>downsmash

fireball>nair>ftilt>studderstep fsmash

Bair>bair>bair>bair...

fireball>dair?

man fireballs are really important for combos and such well this is all i can think of

 

[Mario_ 101]

Combos are going to be in the strategies section. I'll add these you posted in hopefully by tonight.

 

[vato_break]

kk there is more you just have to be creative with your stuff..i think

 

[Mario_ 101]

I'm good with coming up with combos.

 

[vato_break]

i'm better

 

[A2ZOMG]

Okay combos? Let me tell you all of Mario's TRUE combos that work on training mode. It varies a bit by character just keep in mind.

D-throw -> Up-B (not worthwhile, only low percents, and several of the hits on the Up-B won't hit)
U-tilt chain counts as a combo on some characters like Fox
U-air blind occasionally gets 2s on the combo counter if I recall
D-air -> any double jumped aerial (except F-air) at low percents is a true combo
U-air -> Up-B (seems to work better if you hit with the last part of the U-air, THEN reverse Up-B before you hit the ground, but it's a bit tricky)

That's about it really. To be blatantly honest, I haven't yet been able to actually combo with Fireballs in training mode. Maybe because I'm lazy? Who knows. Now what's left is discussing option limiting setups that you should actually try to get your opponent to fall into, because those are usually better and teach you to be a better player.

 

[vato_break]

The cpu has crazy DI they airdodge my fairs!
i wouldn't trust training mode...

 

[A2ZOMG]

Is it possible to B-reversal a Cape against knockback? What I mean is when you are sent flying by a kill move, you Cape towards the blastzone and B-reverse it. The question is can this viably save you from killing knockback? What I do know is that I have tried to Cape towards the stage when sent by a kill move, and my momentum still sends me to my death.

 

[vato_break]

Cape stops momentum you create not momentum created by other stuff.

 

[Matador]

I like the updates Mario 101. You seem to have covered nearly everything.

 

[Mario_ 101]

^ Thanks. I like positive comments. But constructive criticism is good too, so I can make this guide better. Remember everyone, if you see the tiniest of errors let me know, but say what's wrong with it. If you just say it has several flaws in it but don't list the flaws themselves then i have no idea what to fix. That's why I called this the ULTIMATE mario guide, because if you have the majority's idea then the guide'll be near perferct. Also Pokemon Trainer matchup will be added this weekend, maybe Friday night.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Cape stops momentum you create not momentum created by other stuff.

I know that much, but what about B-reversals? Did you test that? If characters like Mario can B-reversal to cancel knockback, that will improve their survivability TREMENDOUSLY thanks to the lack of hitstun in Brawl. Granted it will likely be one of the harder techniques to master, but still, has anyone tested that yet?

And sorry guys, I just changed mains to G&W. I really want to do better the next time I go to a tourney (cause, I just failed miserably with Mario last time), but after that I'll go back to maining Mario. ^^

 

[Judge Judy]

Just wondering, if FLUDD turns out to really be the G&W slayer, will that help Mario's match-up against him much? Since G&W ***** Mario so much in every other area, can one move really turn the tables?

 

[A2ZOMG]

FLUDD and cape are actually pretty much useless vs G&W, and I think they give him back his Up-B if he used it.

What works better vs G&W is keeping a good distance between you and him and if you think your shield can take a hit, then shield whatever approach he does, and punish him with a F-tilt. Trust me on this one, it works because it's usually faster than most of his attacks he has at point blank range. I think I've punished his Smash attacks on block before this way, and most G&W's players LOVE to hit your shield with Smash attacks knowing that they usually won't get punished and that they will likely score a KO if you make a slight technical error. Don't try to punish him with Smash attacks though, because if you miss, you will get Smashed yourself, and it will suck.

Spacing doesn't work against G&W. You want to get inside his range if you're not really far away from him, because thankfully you're faster and can usually pull out attacks before he can do other things. You can't miss an opportunity to get inside his face and put pressure on him, so IMO well-timed shielding is extra important this matchup. Fireballs every so often are okay if he's doing a bad approach, or if you feel you can easily score a KO if he pulls out the Bucket.

Sliq mentioned that Ganondorf can Up-B OOS or D-air out of shield against several of G&W's aerial approaches if he has really good timing (like if G&W is B-airing, you wait for the aerial hits to end, and Up-B right before the landing hitbox happens). I honestly find these kind of strategies really hard to perform in real time, but it's worth knowing, since Mario himself does have a pretty good D-air and Up-B out of shield.

 

[Judge Judy]

FLUDD and cape are actually pretty much useless vs G&W, and I think they give him back his Up-B if he used it.

What works better vs G&W is keeping a good distance between you and him and if you think your shield can take a hit, then shield whatever approach he does, and punish him with a F-tilt. Trust me on this one, it works because it's usually faster than most of his attacks he has at point blank range. I think I've punished his Smash attacks on block before this way, and most G&W's players LOVE to hit your shield with Smash attacks knowing that they usually won't get punished and that they will likely score a KO if you make a slight technical error. Don't try to punish him with Smash attacks though, because if you miss, you will get Smashed yourself, and it will suck.

Spacing doesn't work against G&W. You want to get inside his range if you're not really far away from him, because thankfully you're faster and can usually pull out attacks before he can do other things. You can't miss an opportunity to get inside his face and put pressure on him, so IMO well-timed shielding is extra important this matchup. Fireballs every so often are okay if he's doing a bad approach, or if you feel you can easily score a KO if he pulls out the Bucket.

Sliq mentioned that Ganondorf can Up-B OOS or D-air out of shield against several of G&W's aerial approaches if he has really good timing (like if G&W is B-airing, you wait for the aerial hits to end, and Up-B right before the landing hitbox happens). I honestly find these kind of strategies really hard to perform in real time, but it's worth knowing, since Mario himself does have a pretty good D-air and Up-B out of shield.

Yah, but I'm not talking about any of that. I'm saying, FLUDD kills all of G&W's approaches. Here's my challenge to you so you know what I'm talking about, spend a few matches doing nothing but blocking G&W's atks with FLUDD. I been using a backwards SH immeadetly into FLUDD. I'm just saying that FLUDD is basically a brickwall for G&W.

 

[A2ZOMG]

You need to space and aim FLUDD really well in order to do that, because the FLUDD's "hurtbox" can sometimes merely increase the duration of G&W's already super long duration attacks, allowing him to STILL hit you even after the FLUDD ends.

 

[Judge Judy]

Doesn't work like that unless you're being really really dumb and only like skim him with it or something. It does take spacing though, but it's not really hard at all. A backward SH should be enough even if you've only charged for about half a second. I was pretty surprised when I could stop all hs atks with the FLUDD, the tricky part is following up which takes practice. I know what you're talking about but if you follow up even halfway decently there's little G&W can do to stop you.

 

[Mario_ 101]

NVM every1 bout pokemAn trainer being finished this wiikend. though at least this thread is having some good discussion.

 

[vato_break]

101 why did you quit yesterday
you're too good for me?
lol

 

[Mario_ 101]

I had a lot of matches before and i was doing real well but then i just burned out lol. Sometimes when I play 2 much i need like a break and a didn't have that. Just added Pokeman trainer

 

[Matt07]

Hey, I didn't read the whole guide yet, but I think we should do some K.O. percents on each character with certain attacks?

 

[HeroMystic]

Doesn't work like that unless you're being really really dumb and only like skim him with it or something. It does take spacing though, but it's not really hard at all. A backward SH should be enough even if you've only charged for about half a second. I was pretty surprised when I could stop all hs atks with the FLUDD, the tricky part is following up which takes practice. I know what you're talking about but if you follow up even halfway decently there's little G&W can do to stop you.

Exactly. FIHL (FLUDD Induced Hit Lag) stops ALL of G&W's aerial approaches and allows Mario to punish. The only thing G&W has left to approach is going above Mario with his key, or dash-attacking and we all know how easy those are to punish.

If you're good with FIHL, this alone demolishes this matchup from being 8:2. It could even push the match-up to neutral if we Mario's add retreating fireballs into the mix.

 

[A2ZOMG]

The key to winning against G&W is waiting for the right time to get inside his range, because if you can get inside his range, he sucks. He doesn't have too many reliable GET OUT OF MY FACE attacks. He has better STAY AWAY FROM ME attacks.

You can F-tilt G&W a lot once you get inside his range.

 

[HeroMystic]

Personally, I don't think it's hard to inside his range. You just have to play smart about it. A random fireball approach won't work, but baiting does. Creating windows of opportunities is not a hard thing to do.

Plus, FIHL works on his ground moves as well, but I've yet to find a good half-second approach for that yet. Still, it's not that hard to go inside Gay Man Watch's range. You just have to be patient.

 

[Judge Judy]

The key to winning against G&W is waiting for the right time to get inside his range, because if you can get inside his range, he sucks. He doesn't have too many reliable GET OUT OF MY FACE attacks. He has better STAY AWAY FROM ME attacks.

You can F-tilt G&W a lot once you get inside his range.

I'd say the same thing but I'd add to abuse Mario's speed and FIHL AT. This match-up is defiently one of Mario's more interesting match-ups; while on the surface it seems that G&W has the complete upper hand, Mario actually does decent against G&W. G&W usually can rely on his priority and range to approach, but the FIHL greatly limits G&W's approach. Mario's Nair also comes out faster than all of G&W's aerials. Basicallly you do what A2ZOMG said but you force those openings using fireballs carefully and abusing FIHL.

PS: FLUDD can be used to slip out G&W's Uair

 

[Mewtwo1414]

Sorry if this is known, but i'll say it anyway, while in the air hold down up and press down on the c-stick (while smash attacks are set to it) and it can aid recovery.(my brother found this out).

 

[Ray/Boshi]

If anything FIHL is more then capable of frustrating the GW player into making an mistake by doing something dumb with a move after being halted by FIHL over an over. Leaving himself open for punishment. As it does with every character that's light. It will push them alot. Or in GW's case, if you hit him while he uses a Bair. It will halt the Bair animation at a screeching halt until the fludd stops spraying. Against Gw/MK/Jigglypuff/ect ect (Light characters) Fludd would be best if used as a(n) short uncharged approach. It should be considered just as valuable as shooting fireballs at arms length, if not more depending on the character that you're facing. So by all means incorporate in into you're everyday game against every character.

Also when i'm against a GW. I find that alot of my KO's come from using Utilt. Because he's so light, I never attempt to Utilt juggle him. So it's always KO fresh. It also has a somewhat decieving hitbox in the front of Mario, which helps greatly.

 

[Matador]

If you're good with FIHL, this alone demolishes this matchup from being 8:2. It could even push the match-up to neutral if we Mario's add retreating fireballs into the mix.

Zomg, it's that serious?

Does it work better when Fludd is charged or half charged or what? What are common followups after the FIHL (lol, pronounced Fill), and does this work vs Luigi's Nair? I bet if you manage to Fludd G&W's sideB if he gets a nine, your Wii splodes.

 

[Matt07]

Zomg, it's that serious?

Does it work better when Fludd is charged or half charged or what? What are common followups after the FIHL (lol, pronounced Fill), and does this work vs Luigi's Nair? I bet if you manage to Fludd G&W's sideB if he gets a nine, your Wii splodes.

Game and Watch is pretty light, like an uncharged FLUUD pushes him back slightly far. So if a G&W spams back-air a lot, shoot the FLUUD tilted up at an angle so you can punish him with an Usmash.

Against Luigi I have no clue. I think we should test FLUUD against every characters move to see how laggy they get.

, the G&W player would be so mad, if he missed a 9 Judgement due to FLUUD.

 

[HeroMystic]

Zomg, it's that serious?

I was probably exaggerating on the Neutral, but 8:2 is silly when you put FIHL into account. More like 60:40/65:35 since G&W sucks once Mario is close, but has good defensive game, which stops it from being a neutral.

Does it work better when Fludd is charged or half charged or what? What are common followups after the FIHL (lol, pronounced Fill), and does this work vs Luigi's Nair?

Half-charged (or not charged at all) allows you to move in closer and punish. Up-Smash for kills are great with this, and so is U-tilt and aerials.

Fully charged works better in terms of approach-killing, as not only it makes the opponent lag, but it still pushes them back if you move FLUDD around a bit. The push back is minor when FIHL is in effect, but this allows Mario to charge up an F-Smash for a half-second for an easy kill, or you jump over during their lag effect and punish with an aerial.

As for Luigi's N-air... *tests for a moment*... yes it does. It's quite effective too since Luigi is terribly floaty. Easy to punish.

I bet if you manage to Fludd G&W's sideB if he gets a nine, your Wii splodes.

Not yours, his.

 

[A2ZOMG]

How to use the Forward Air:

Usually considered to be one of Mario's worst attacks, indeed it's far from exceptional, but it has some good qualities that make it situationally effective.

The obvious use for it is ledgeguarding. It's a meteor smash, and considering that meteor smashes are more desireable in Brawl than they were in Melee due to the change in physics, you should always keep an eye out for a time to use this. Get in a good hit, and you will do maximum damage to your opponent's recovery even if they meteor cancel.

On stage, it's more situational due to significant ending lag. HOWEVER, this meteor does have autocancel frames. If you do a rising F-air from a fullhop, the entire attack actually ends before you hit the ground, allowing you to N-air or U-air, (or D-air, but don't do that) right as you land. Fullhopped F-air also autocancels on the platforms on battlefield, and considering how most meteor smashes, including this one have good hitstun, it could be a viable combo starter on people waiting on a BF platform. Even a SHed F-air can sort of start combos thanks to the great hitstun of the meteor.

F-air is also good for starting a techchase game on midair opponents. By slamming your opponent into the ground, you limit your opponent's options. Chances are your opponent will not expect this at all and will miss the tech. This is your chance to predict what they do, and punish them. I have comboed into Smash attacks this way before, and it's awesome.

And lastly, there is also the chance your opponent will have no idea how to react to a Mario that uses the F-air intelligently on stage, and since they will usually expect you to B-air, maybe you can throw off their rhythm by throwing this out more than they would expect. Many characters like to spotdodge and retaliate. However the F-air comes out a fair bit slower than Mario's other aerials, and has respectable duration, so it's not impossible you can punish an opponent's spotdodging habits with this attack.

I was sandbagging online with Mario, and throwing out F-airs just for the hell of it, and this is my experience with it.

As for the D-tilt, the best use I have found for it is using it on a stage like Luigi's mansion and spamming it on the columns to get around diminishing returns. Well, besides starting "combos" at higher percents. It also extends farther than the Jab I guess, and it can shield poke.

 

[xoxokev]

you forgot Ness in the matchup section

 

[Mario_ 101]

^ it's a work in progress not everything is finished. -.-
i'll try to get an update in this weekend.

 

[xoxokev]

Its okay, I already found out Ness can be EASILY gimped by FLUDD when using PK Thunder to recover. Use the same techniques to gimp Ness as you would for Lucas. However, Ness's yo-yo and f-air could be trouble so watch out for those

 

[Sagen du Smash]

I love Mario man. But I also love Sonic. Trash? Come on! Oh man we starting something...

 

[Mario_ 101]

Its okay, I already found out Ness can be EASILY gimped by FLUDD when using PK Thunder to recover. Use the same techniques to gimp Ness as you would for Lucas. However, Ness's yo-yo and f-air could be trouble so watch out for those

i know lol. i'm not inexperienced. but thnx 4 posting anyways. and for the above post, well, its just a joke lol.