The many flavors of Princess, Daisy and Peach Differences.

[Almand]

It may not be the last one, but it´ll most likely be Sakurai's last one D:

Also, I heavily believe that, if Daisy is indeed a late addition, then maybe they have just only finished her model and animations and pasted them on Peach's character. Tbh, I wouldn't mind Daisy being Peach's Dark Pit as long as her Down B is different, or at least a reskin (maybe Mario Party dice instead?); Daisy with turnips doesn't make sense.

Echoes, as far as we know, have all the same moves. Only effects are changed (Like how Dark Pit has his Silver Bow and Electroshock Arm, and Daisy produces flower effects instead of hearts). Some angles, damage values, knockback, etc., might be changed, but nothing like animations or attributes (speed, jump height, weight, etc.)

Sadly, Daisy is probably gonna have turnips, but some RNG might be changed (Maybe we'll get Beam Sword back from Melee, in place of Mr. Saturn?). Rebalancing a whole new move, even something as simple as exchanging turnips for Mario Party Dice, soccer balls, etc., would require new physics, new damage percentages, etc., which would make her not an Echo anymore.

Echoes, just by how they act/perform, are probably gonna be very late additions by default (Daisy is still being worked on, purportedly, implying she was thought up very close to E3, and will probably be changed somewhat from here to December). As long as the clones have different idle, entrance, victory, and taunt animations, they're not much work to include, comparative to other fighters. Ms. Pac-Man could be an Echo for Pac-Man, Shadow for Sonic, Ken for Ryu, etc., which might be where plenty of newcomers appear from.

 

[MattOnwheels]

Chin up, fellas! Daisy may not be fully distinct like some wished, but hey! She's there, and she may have a few unique things to her! That's what her trailer said. Besides, at worst, she'll be just as unique as the Koopalings are to Bowser Jr, which is really all she needs to be. The same moves with her own flair. that's what I think you'll get!

 

[DrakeRowan]

Down + B (Peach, not daisy)
0:09 Mark
Pull speed is about the same if not worse than it was in Smash 4.
I heard rumors of Glide Tossing being in the game again though.

 

[hermes]

I didnt like that daisy getting peachs moves. Some of them are elegant some of them are carefree and innocent or adorably nasty. Many of them dont seem to fit daisy unless they clearly change her animations. I also cant see daisy picking turnips and dashing as slowly as peach does.

 

[Almand]

I didnt like that daisy getting peachs moves. Some of them are elegant some of them are carefree and innocent or adorably nasty. Many of them dont seem to fit daisy unless they clearly change her animations. I also cant see daisy dash being slow like peachs.

Yeah, that's the common gripe. It's not ideal, and it's not what any of us necessarily wanted, but hey, she's in Smash!

Now, if they somehow make her a unique character from here till December, that'll be fantastic. But, it's not necessarily realistic. If they haven't been doing that from the start (and just didn't want to reveal a half-finished Daisy at E3), it's not too likely they'll be able to make a new character in just 6 months, along with everything else they'll do.

 

[Almand]

Update on Daisy's Fair: it doesn't spike. :/

In this picture, neglecting the fact Daisy's body is on backwards, the smoke trails indicate Lucina is being sent upward. We can't assume an angle, but it wouldn't matter anyway; Lucina is grounded before the hit and Peach's Fair sends at a Sakurai angle (varies from 0 to ~40 degrees on grounded opponents, and always sends aerial opponents at 45 degrees upward). Lucina just hits a wall and lands right in front of Daisy. The whole thing is so close that it seems like a spike.

I also kinda find it funny that she's smacking Lucina, because Clone Wars, but that's neither here nor there.

 

[Slip33]

The new D-tilt looks like an improvement over the current one. It looks faster. I wonder with new neutral B/Toad counter animation. Is Peach/Daisy open to attacks that are above Toad's height.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Peach Bomber sends at a 361/Sakurai angle, which always sends at a 45 degree angle when hitting an opponent in the air. As we can see from one of Daisy's trailers, Daisy Bomber doesn't send downwards as said on the Smash Wiki, but at that 45 degree angle seen here.

Aside from that, we have 8 moves (out of a total of 21: 5 normals, 3 smashes, 5 aerials, 4 specials, and 4 throws) that we have yet to see from her (Jab, Down B, Down Air, Down Tilt, Dash Attack, and all throws but Down Throw), and zero confirmed changes from Peach. On the website, in fact, it says that she "has the same basic moveset as Peach, but this princess has her own personality," meaning all of her moves will likely be identical, save for one or two angle/damage changes. Any more than that (from move animations to attributes like speed and weight), and she wouldn't be an Echo. We're moping over the similarities because that's all we're seeing, moveset-wise.
It's just sad to see a character with so much potential for a unique moveset get thrown in with the clones; it feels like a cheap and easy way to be lazy when it comes to characters people really want. They're in the game, so we can't complain, but at the same time, would people really be satisfied if Waluigi was just a Wii Fit or Falcon Echo, for example? After all this time, this is what they do for the one people have clamored for for years?

Beggars can't be choosers, but it's a little disappointing that clones are now canon and intentional; like these characters just aren't important enough to get more than a slot, one or two different moves for Dark Pit, and Marth's entire gimmick removed in Lucina. It's not bad enough to cause a boycott or cause myself not to main Daisy, don't get me wrong, but enough that I'm left a little unimpressed with the turnout. Not just with Daisy, but for Dark Pit and Lucina, too.

You have the audacity to be a Debbie Downer over a situation that was nigh impossible anyways?
Daisy got in through a shortcut and if these are the repercussions so be it.
She likely wouldn't have gotten in as a unique character. I've realised that Smash, with its giant roster, is heading straight towards a reboot of sorts or even its end. A fully unique moveset would take some games, time we possibly did not have.
With both Toad and Waluigi getting snubbed when it comes to playable appearance, I am very glad that Daisy's in. I'd rather have Daisy not dunking her crown than her being dunked on by the Yellow Peach alt yet again.

Super Mario is a series filled to the brim with frontrunners for the roster in general, fanbase favorite and compelling dark horse choices. Daisy got the sheer privilege to be the frontrunner in another character category, that of derivative/clones.
Sakurai took an unfortunate approach with clones in this game, with the float and toad being intact and moves having mostly the same animations (RIP Slam Dunk Crown) but he took an approach that planned clones from the get-go.

In contrast, Smash 4 did not plan any clones, with Lucina, Dark Pit and Dr. Mario getting "upgraded" later. If that was the case for Smash Ultimate, we might've been stuck in a limbo where Daisy was too unique to bother to upgrade the alt for, but simply not prioritised enough in either the roster or even the Mario series representation to make the cut in any other way, resulting in a future as bleak as Waluigi's by being stuck in the same role for yet another iteration.
Meanwhile, I think there's still time to replace the Toad model with something unique to Daisy. With it being in all the throws and Neutral B, something as simple as swapping a model could have big effects on making Daisy's moveset visually distinctive.

 

[staindgrey]

Just found the official blog post for Daisy's announcement. Here's the official wording:

Today's Fighter
#13ᵋ: Daisy
Her basic move set is the same as Peach's, but this princess has her own unique personality. She's known for being upbeat, energetic, and a bit of a tomboy.

Bold emphasis mine.

 

[Almand]

You have the audacity to be a Debbie Downer over a situation that was nigh impossible anyways?
Daisy got in through a shortcut and if these are the repercussions so be it.
She likely wouldn't have gotten in as a unique character. I've realised that Smash, with its giant roster, is heading straight towards a reboot of sorts or even its end. A fully unique moveset would take some games, time we possibly did not have.
With both Toad and Waluigi getting snubbed when it comes to playable appearance, I am very glad that Daisy's in. I'd rather have Daisy not dunking her crown than her being dunked on by the Yellow Peach alt yet again.

Super Mario is a series filled to the brim with frontrunners for the roster in general, fanbase favorite and compelling dark horse choices. Daisy got the sheer privilege to be the frontrunner in another character category, that of derivative/clones.
Sakurai took an unfortunate approach with clones in this game, with the float and toad being intact and moves having mostly the same animations (RIP Slam Dunk Crown) but he took an approach that planned clones from the get-go.

In contrast, Smash 4 did not plan any clones, with Lucina, Dark Pit and Dr. Mario getting "upgraded" later. If that was the case for Smash Ultimate, we might've been stuck in a limbo where Daisy was too unique to bother to upgrade the alt for, but simply not prioritised enough in either the roster or even the Mario series representation to make the cut in any other way, resulting in a future as bleak as Waluigi's by being stuck in the same role for yet another iteration.
Meanwhile, I think there's still time to replace the Toad model with something unique to Daisy. With it being in all the throws and Neutral B, something as simple as swapping a model could have big effects on making Daisy's moveset visually distinctive.

I know, don't worry. As great as Daisy would be with a more unique moveset, she's just not popular or loved enough to get that treatment, so the best we're gonna get is an Echo. In fact, people are clamoring more over Waluigi having the possibility to still be in, somehow, than Daisy actually being in.

I love the fact she's in, don't get me wrong. I'm still gonna play and probably main her, but the concept of an Echo is what leaves a bad taste in my mouth. They're confirmed to have only minimal changes; no attribute changes, only a few animation changes (that don't change the actual move), and the only gameplay-affecting tweaks might be swapped damage/knockback here and there. Peach might combo from Down Tilt while Daisy combos from Up Tilt, for example, but they could otherwise be identical.

That being said, I'm optimistic they'll treat Daisy well. If this is the best Sakurai can do, I'll gladly take it, and being the 'face' of Echoes is nothing to sneeze at. Even if she's a Peach clone, even if she's just as slow as her counterpart, with only one or two damage/knockback tweaks, I'm happy. She's playable, and that's all I can really ask for. Besides, there's always gonna be a next game, even if Sakurai leaves the series for someone else to work on. This time wasn't Daisy's chance to show off her real potential, but it's a start. A start is more than good enough for me.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

We already have a thread for this so should we merge them?

 

[Reila]

Once again it is really not a matter of popularity, but scope, time, money, resources. They can't make every beloved character unique and still release this behemoth of a game in an acceptable deadline. If popularity was all that mattered, Lucina wouldn't be an echo fighter anymore. Fire Emblem Awakening and Lucina are very popular even years after the game's release.

 

[Almand]

Once again it is really not a matter of popularity, but scope, time, money, resources. They can't make every beloved character unique and still release this behemoth of a game in an acceptable deadline. If popularity was all that mattered, Lucina wouldn't be an echo fighter anymore. Fire Emblem Awakening and Lucina are very popular even years after the game's release.

Good point. Popularity does play a role, though, you can't deny. Ridley got in for his popularity, Ganon was added to Melee because of fan demand, Roy was added to Smash 4 because people wanted him back, etc.

It's not the sole reason, I'd say it's more 35/65 in favor of what you mentioned, in fact. Waluigi isn't playable despite his popularity, even, but I think there's more to it than that. In any case, I mostly agree. Daisy was, as much as I hate to say it, destined to be a Peach clone, and popularity may or may not have helped.

 

[Reila]

Good point. Popularity does play a role, though, you can't deny. Ridley got in for his popularity, Ganon was added to Melee because of fan demand, Roy was added to Smash 4 because people wanted him back, etc.

It's not the sole reason, I'd say it's more 35/65 in favor of what you mentioned, in fact. Waluigi isn't playable despite his popularity, even, but I think there's more to it than that. In any case, I mostly agree. Daisy was, as much as I hate to say it, destined to be a Peach clone, and popularity may or may not have helped.

Definitely, otherwise Daisy wouldn't be as much as an echo fighter.

Waluigi doesn't have a character for his moveset to be "echoed" from. He would have to be brand new character or at the very least, a Fox/Wolf scenario. Honestly, the Waluigi meme isn't that popular. In my opinion, at least, I don't have data to support this claim.

They might have left the "unique newcomer" status for the most wanted but also most profitable characters. Ridley fits the criteria, but who else? We shall see in the next couple of months, hopefully.

 

[Dandelionel]

Good point. Popularity does play a role, though, you can't deny. Ridley got in for his popularity, Ganon was added to Melee because of fan demand, Roy was added to Smash 4 because people wanted him back, etc.

It's not the sole reason, I'd say it's more 35/65 in favor of what you mentioned, in fact. Waluigi isn't playable despite his popularity, even, but I think there's more to it than that. In any case, I mostly agree. Daisy was, as much as I hate to say it, destined to be a Peach clone, and popularity may or may not have helped.

Popularity definetly helped because she was announced at e3 and she is the main face of echoes characters

 

[staindgrey]

They might have left the "unique newcomer" status for the most wanted but also most profitable characters. Ridley fits the criteria, but who else? We shall see in the next couple of months, hopefully.

Anyone from Xenoblade not named Shulk, Isabelle, Isaac (assuming they aren't abandoning Golden Sun forever), an ARMS character, a DK character, Paper Mario, etc.

I'd say there's still a wealth of fan-loved characters with unique moveset possibilities still on the table that don't even include third parties.

 

[Reila]

Anyone from Xenoblade not named Shulk, Isabelle, Isaac (assuming they aren't abandoning Golden Sun forever), an ARMS character, a DK character, Paper Mario, etc.

I'd say there's still a wealth of fan-loved characters with unique moveset possibilities still on the table that don't even include third parties.

It was a rhetorical question, but since you responded:

You are overestimating the popularity of Xenoblade characters. The main Xenoblade cast is popular but they are also part of Shulk's final smash, Metal Face/Spoiler is a stage hazard (could be removed and added as a character, of course, but seems unlikely), Zanza is, well, spoilers and why would they ever added Dickson... So yeah. From Xenoblade X, I would love Elma, but neither X or 2 are as popular as the first one (X more for being released for a failure of a console, the Wii U). If they add a Xenoblade 2 character it is more for the sake of marketing (just like Corring) than for popularity.

The others you mentioned. aside from ARMS characters (since when they were popular and fan-loved? You rarely see people talking about the game, let alone its cast of characters) are obvious, but whether they will be added or not is a different matter. A Donkey Kong rep should definitely happen, and Isaac has been a popular demand for ages, but when it comes to Isabelle, I doubt she would be anything more than a Villager echo fighter.

Hundreds of characters with a fanbase could be added, that is not the point. The point is who is REALLY popular, has been requested consistently and hasn't been added yet. The answer is: Very few characters. DK reps, Isaac, Geno, even Bandana Dee? Yes, but ARMs characters aren't that popular, no are the Xenoblade X and 2 casts.

 

[staindgrey]

It was a rhetorical question, but since you responded:

You are overestimating the popularity of Xenoblade characters. The main Xenoblade cast is popular but they are also part of Shulk's final smash, Metal Face/Spoiler is a stage hazard (could be removed and added as a character, of course, but seems unlikely), Zanza is, well, spoilers and why would they ever added Dickson... So yeah. From Xenoblade X, I would love Elma, but neither X or 2 are as popular as the first one (X more for being released for a failure of a console, the Wii U). If they add a Xenoblade 2 character it is more for the sake of marketing (just like Corring) than for popularity.

The others you mentioned. aside from ARMS characters (since when they were popular and fan-loved? You rarely see people talking about the game, let alone its cast of characters) are obvious, but whether they will be added or not is a different matter. A Donkey Kong rep should definitely happen, and Isaac has been a popular demand for ages, but when it comes to Isabelle, I doubt she would be anything more than a Villager echo fighter.

Hundreds of characters with a fanbase could be added, that is not the point. The point is who is REALLY popular, has been requested consistently and hasn't been added yet. The answer is: Very few characters. DK reps, Isaac, Geno, even Bandana Dee? Yes, but ARMs characters aren't that popular, no are the Xenoblade X and 2 casts.

Uh. So, I'm not actually a Xenoblade fan myself (I enjoyed X but never got through the first couple hours of XC1), but Xenoblade 2 has outperformed both 1 and X, as well as any Xenogears or Xenosaga game. It's Monolith Soft's highest selling game of all time as of April, only four months after release, and it's getting a large expansion that was shown at E3.

As for ARMS, the concept and character designs have been very well-liked, with the Twittersphere going nuts over Min-Min and Twintella in particular. The game's online community cooled off quickly due to the repetitive nature of the game, but despite that, it's still getting a graphic novel this year and still has a competitive scene, albeit small. Nintendo really pushed the marketing on that game, so it's not at all unreasonable to think they asked Sakurai to put a character in years ago. It's not really fair to compare an ARMS request to an Isaac request, though, since Isaac has been requested for three straight Smash games, while ARMS just turned a year old today. (And Isaac fans just want something more from Golden Sun at this point.)

I'm not trying to defend any one character's worth, since I already got the character I wanted most, but it's important not to handwave whole communities away because you don't think they're popular. For instance, I didn't even know who Bandana Dee was until I Googled him yesterday. I've personally never cared for Kirby, but I can't deny that he has a fanbase just because I don't like him. Same goes for fans of Krystal, Samurai Goroh, Waluigi, Isabelle, Will Wedgewood, Captain Rainbow, etc.

There are still a lot of underrepresented games with fans who really want them in Smash. I'm not really sure what you're requiring to deem something "REALLY popular".

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Personally I think Daisy's main difference may end up being she plucks a different kind of Vegetable for her Down-B (and different random items) as that needs no new attack balancing. Just balancing the items themselves.

 

[staindgrey]

Personally I think Daisy's main difference may end up being she plucks a different kind of Vegetable for her Down-B (and different random items) as that needs no new attack balancing. Just balancing the items themselves.

I'd be totally fine with a cosmetic change to carrots. Even if the items' attributes are the same, changing the visual to better match her would suffice.

It's worth noting that what little gameplay we've seen of Daisy doesn't show what her downB is, and that Peach wasn't playable in the E3 demo. It's likely that Peach's standard moveset got a couple small changes to better differentiate the two.

 

[Freelance Spy]

Honestly, I think they are testing the waters. They know that both Daisy and clones were hugely controversial so they tried to show both things like it was no big deal, to see our reaction. Luckily both the reaction to Daisy and Echo Fighters has been very positive, I even got surprised about it. Plus, I do feel like Daisy is a late addition, that is why I think we will see 2 more Echoes at best.

However, rushed or not, Daisy is here to fight, as her own character and we should be thankful to Sakurai for that. And remember, her differences may be minimal, but they still decided to make her a fighter and not an alt. Echo or not, she has at least some identity, unlike alts.

Who could have guessed the way to shut people up about their misplaced clone hatred was to just, give clones a name.

What a time to be alive.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Who could have guessed the way to shut people up about their misplaced clone hatred was to just, give clones a name.

What a time to be alive.

Amazing what power a little name change can have. Psychology and Marketing at play.

It's the same thing that started the Beanie Baby craze. They stopped saying lines were "discontinued" and instead said they were "retired". Thus began one of the doofiest bubbles since the tulip boom.

 

[PrincessDaisyFanForGood]

So I did some more research on Peach and Daisy in SSBU and I found a couple of interesting things to note. However, until we see more of Peach, we can't say what is singular to Daisy in terms of moveset.

Spoiler: Large image

-Daisy and Peach have different postures while floating down with their parasols. It is a bit hard to tell at this angle, but Peach has an open mouth smile and the way they hold their free arm is different also.

-It looks like the hitbox on Daisy's side tilt extends past her leg. As you can see on this picture here, compared to the way the attack was in Smash 4 (we haven't seen Peach doing this attack in SSBU yet I don't think, so I used Smash 4 for reference) it seems to be go out further than just her leg. However, I don't know if this is shared with Peach as well, and the graphic could have just been changed to fit the new aesthetics of the game.

 

[Almand]

So I did some more research on Peach and Daisy in SSBU and I found a couple of interesting things to note. However, until we see more of Peach, we can't say what is singular to Daisy in terms of moveset.

Spoiler: Large image

-Daisy and Peach have different postures while floating down with their parasols. It is a bit hard to tell at this angle, but Peach has an open mouth smile and the way they hold their free arm is different also.

-It looks like the hitbox on Daisy's side tilt extends past her leg. As you can see on this picture here, compared to the way the attack was in Smash 4 (we haven't seen Peach doing this attack in SSBU yet I don't think, so I used Smash 4 for reference) it seems to be go out further than just her leg. However, I don't know if this is shared with Peach as well, and the graphic could have just been changed to fit the new aesthetics of the game.

Good find! The F-Tilt change strikes me as something that Peach will have as well, just because of how minimally it was changed, but the Parasol Float is actually confirmed different! Sure, it doesn't change gameplay, but it's something! Hopefully they do some more work on Daisy come December, it'd be fantastic to see even something as trivial as a single unique move, or a special outfit.

Her Up Air, also, sends out two rainbows with one hit each, instead of one rainbow with two hits (hopefully that explanation makes sense, but it's in Daisy's gameplay trailer). We haven't seen Peach's Up Air, though, so whether or not that's a real change is kinda unknown. Otherwise, Daisy's Up Air sends at the same angle and seems to have the same use, but might have a bit less endlag?

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Fair still has lag as shown in Daisy's trailer, albeit likely considerably less than in Smash4 (landing lag in general seems significantly reduced in this game... which is good news for us floating princesses!)

Just watched it. That's a lot less to me. Also, it could be even less, sometimes characters remain in their smoke lag animation some frames beyond when they are free to act again if you don't press anythign soon enough. We'll just have to wait and see, but that video makes me optimistic!

EDIT: By using , to rewind and . to fast forward, frame by frame, on that youtube video, it appears there is somewhere between 8 to 12 frames of lag between when she lands and when F-smash starting coming out, depending when you consider daisy "landing" in that video. But again it just depends when Peach/Daisy was actually free to act, so this could be even less...

 

[FunAtParties]

I liked her old Dtilt. Such an unfortunate change

 

[Almand]

Just watched it. That's a lot less to me. Also, it could be even less, sometimes characters remain in their smoke lag animation some frames beyond when they are free to act again if you don't press anythign soon enough. We'll just have to wait and see, but that video makes me optimistic!

EDIT: By using , to rewind and . to fast forward, frame by frame, on that youtube video, it appears there is somewhere between 8 to 12 frames of lag between when she lands and when F-smash starting coming out, depending when you consider daisy "landing" in that video. But again it just depends when Peach/Daisy was actually free to act, so this could be even less...

Make sure the video is 60 FPS. I just did the same thing you described, and counted 22 frames of lag until she began the F-Smash (same as Smash 4). I considered that Daisy landed the frame those puffs of smoke appear at her feet.

Then again, the F-Smash may or may not have been buffered, so we really don't know. Most moves now have minimal landing lag (Pac-Man's Nair, as a quick example, now has 8 frames of leg, the same as all tether attacks in Smash 4, and 2 frames less than Sheik's Nair), so I may very well be wrong.

 

[Katy Parry]

Yeah, I bet she has different turnip percentages and pulls a home run bat, a soccer ball, and Mr. Saturn.

 

[DaisyandRosalina]

So far the only different attacks have showcased differences: Up Aerial and Side Tilt.
Daisy being absent on the demo just means we still have to wait months until we see other differences unfortunately. There are still few attacks that were not showed accurately (Float and Lateral Smash for example) and others that were not shown at all. There is totally somethimg we have missed or just not seen yet, her land speed, aerial speed, hitbox, lags, damage etc.
I have watched her trailer a lot of times but unfortunately I have not seen a lot, there is something I have noticed, Daisy's variant of Peach's bomber seems to be faster and longer compared to Peach (I may be wrong however).
Despite this Daisy seems to have a lot of aesthetic differences from Peach, many more than the other two clones for what I've seen, this is not as important as new attacks but it's pretty cool.

Daisy's absence on the demo may be caused due her character being not complete yet, looking at her "trailer" announcement she seems to have some bugs on her dress when she does few taunts/attacks, her moveset may have been copied and pasted from Peach's but still incomplete due to the facts clones are usually the latest characters to get added and wanting more characters to show at E3 they left Daisy like that... or some moves will just changed a bit later like it happened with other Smash games.

About Peach's Up B this pic kinda tells me that she will have one rainbow.

 

[Almand]

So far the only different attacks have showcased differences: Up Aerial and Side Tilt.
Daisy being absent on the demo just means we still have to wait months until we see other differences unfortunately. There are still few attacks that were not showed accurately (Float and Lateral Smash for example) and others that were not shown at all. There is totally somethimg we have missed or just not seen yet, her land speed, aerial speed, hitbox, lags, damage etc.
I have watched her trailer a lot of times but unfortunately I have not seen a lot, there is something I have noticed, Daisy's variant of Peach's bomber seems to be faster and longer compared to Peach (I may be wrong however).
Despite this Daisy seems to have a lot of aesthetic differences from Peach, many more than the other two clones for what I've seen, this is not as important as new attacks but it's pretty cool.

Daisy's absence on the demo may be caused due her character being not complete yet, looking at her "trailer" announcement she seems to have some bugs on her dress when she does few taunts/attacks, her moveset may have been copied and pasted from Peach's but still incomplete due to the facts clones are usually the latest characters to get added and wanting more characters to show at E3 they left Daisy like that... or some moves will just changed a bit later like it happened with other Smash games.

About Peach's Up B this pic kinda tells me that she will have one rainbow.
View attachment 151249

We'll just have to see; any changes we've only seen in one character are up to debate. Peach, for example, has a new Down Tilt. Who knows if Daisy keeps the old one? Daisy seems to walk a little faster in the beginning to her gameplay trailer, but that could just be the game in general or both Peach and Daisy are faster.
I've noticed that dress-clipping too, and her hair kinda flops all over the place when she performs certain moves/taunts, even getting stuck around her cheek at times before righting itself. But, of course, that's par for the course, and that may very well just be something that happens, whether with Peach, ZSS, etc. My assumption is that she was made like a week before E3, just so they could bump up the idea of an Echo Fighter a little bit. Which, of course, means they'll probably change her a little bit, even something as small as two rainbows for Up Air, Float is shorter, F-Smash is now RNG-based like Melee, Turnip RNG is a little different, etc. It's something, at least.

As for being faster than Peach, we can certainly hope, but I wouldn't count on it. A Nintendo Treehouse meeting on GameXplain stated that Echoes have no attribute changes (run speed, air speed, jump height, etc.), only minimal alterations on some moves (Dark Pit's Side/Up B, removing Tipper on Lucina), maybe one or two animation touches (Like how Lucina's Neutral B animation is very different from Marth's).
Maybe Daisy will be the odd one out, though. It'd make much, much more sense for Daisy to be faster than Peach, especially given Peach is one of the slowest and floatiest characters in Smash 4.

 

[DaisyandRosalina]

We'll just have to see; any changes we've only seen in one character are up to debate. Peach, for example, has a new Down Tilt. Who knows if Daisy keeps the old one? Daisy seems to walk a little faster in the beginning to her gameplay trailer, but that could just be the game in general or both Peach and Daisy are faster.
I've noticed that dress-clipping too, and her hair kinda flops all over the place when she performs certain moves/taunts, even getting stuck around her cheek at times before righting itself. But, of course, that's par for the course, and that may very well just be something that happens, whether with Peach, ZSS, etc. My assumption is that she was made like a week before E3, just so they could bump up the idea of an Echo Fighter a little bit. Which, of course, means they'll probably change her a little bit, even something as small as two rainbows for Up Air, Float is shorter, F-Smash is now RNG-based like Melee, Turnip RNG is a little different, etc. It's something, at least.

As for being faster than Peach, we can certainly hope, but I wouldn't count on it. A Nintendo Treehouse meeting on GameXplain stated that Echoes have no attribute changes (run speed, air speed, jump height, etc.), only minimal alterations on some moves (Dark Pit's Side/Up B, removing Tipper on Lucina), maybe one or two animation touches (Like how Lucina's Neutral B animation is very different from Marth's).
Maybe Daisy will be the odd one out, though. It'd make much, much more sense for Daisy to be faster than Peach, especially given Peach is one of the slowest and floatiest characters in Smash 4.

Can I have a link to that Gamexplain video?

 

[Luminario]

Can I have a link to that Gamexplain video?

17:36 if the timestamp doesn't work

So far the only different attacks have showcased differences: Up Aerial and Side Tilt.
Daisy being absent on the demo just means we still have to wait months until we see other differences unfortunately. There are still few attacks that were not showed accurately (Float and Lateral Smash for example) and others that were not shown at all. There is totally somethimg we have missed or just not seen yet, her land speed, aerial speed, hitbox, lags, damage etc.
I have watched her trailer a lot of times but unfortunately I have not seen a lot, there is something I have noticed, Daisy's variant of Peach's bomber seems to be faster and longer compared to Peach (I may be wrong however).
Despite this Daisy seems to have a lot of aesthetic differences from Peach, many more than the other two clones for what I've seen, this is not as important as new attacks but it's pretty cool.

Daisy's absence on the demo may be caused due her character being not complete yet, looking at her "trailer" announcement she seems to have some bugs on her dress when she does few taunts/attacks, her moveset may have been copied and pasted from Peach's but still incomplete due to the facts clones are usually the latest characters to get added and wanting more characters to show at E3 they left Daisy like that... or some moves will just changed a bit later like it happened with other Smash games.

About Peach's Up B this pic kinda tells me that she will have one rainbow.
View attachment 151249

Have we sen Peach's upair and side tilt yet? All the attacks seem to be the same along with them likely sharing the same new down tilt. We've seen way too little of both their movesets to make any sort of judgement on any actual differences. The only difference I'm banking on is Veggie, where she pulls different random items or a different veggie altogether like a carrot or something.
It's pretty clear that Peach, Daisy and Rosalina are unfinished when it comes to the physics engine for their dresses and hair, notably in Daisy Bomber and in Rosalina's nair. Peach's uh-huh taunt is also missing the spin. I just hope they actually attach the dress to the hands for Peach and Daisy like what they did in Brawl, or at least make the dinosaur-hands running animation in Smash 4 look a little less weird.

 

[DaisyandRosalina]

17:36 if the timestamp doesn't work

Have we sen Peach's upair and side tilt yet? All the attacks seem to be the same along with them likely sharing the same new down tilt. We've seen way too little of both their movesets to make any sort of judgement on any actual differences. The only difference I'm banking on is Veggie, where she pulls different random items or a different veggie altogether like a carrot or something.
It's pretty clear that Peach, Daisy and Rosalina are unfinished when it comes to the physics engine for their dresses and hair, notably in Daisy Bomber and in Rosalina's nair. Peach's uh-huh taunt is also missing the spin. I just hope they actually attach the dress to the hands for Peach and Daisy like what they did in Brawl, or at least make the dinosaur-hands running animation in Smash 4 look a little less weird.

17:36 if the timestamp doesn't work

Have we sen Peach's upair and side tilt yet? All the attacks seem to be the same along with them likely sharing the same new down tilt. We've seen way too little of both their movesets to make any sort of judgement on any actual differences. The only difference I'm banking on is Veggie, where she pulls different random items or a different veggie altogether like a carrot or something.
It's pretty clear that Peach, Daisy and Rosalina are unfinished when it comes to the physics engine for their dresses and hair, notably in Daisy Bomber and in Rosalina's nair. Peach's uh-huh taunt is also missing the spin. I just hope they actually attach the dress to the hands for Peach and Daisy like what they did in Brawl, or at least make the dinosaur-hands running animation in Smash 4 look a little less weird.

Interestingly enough the video says Echo characters essentially have the same basic moveset, this however doesn't mean they may be 100% the same but that they may differ a bit but not as much as semi-clones (or semi-echoes? How can we call them now?) while for example when they talked about Dr Mario they refered as him as "much, much more" or "largely" different.

This is true however since Peach never showcased these moves I consider she has the older ones until this doesn't get fully clarified, the thing that keep tellinge that they won't change is how they were absents not only from the E3 trailer that showcased the differences of each character but also from her own trailer.

 

[DaisyandRosalina]

To confirm my previous statement about clones being similar but not 100% the same moveset whise I found this page.

Translated:
- Echo Fighters are fighters whoseto basic techniques are based on another fighter. Examples include Lucina, Dark Pit and newcomer Daisy.

- Daisy's attributes are almost the same as Peach's but there are ddifferences in character propreties.

 

[xzx]

In one of the trailers for SSBU, where Sakurai presents everything, I noticed something interesting about Daisy. During the part where Great Plateau Tower is presented, Daisy's side-b is almost instantaneously and after that you can actually see her charging her Toad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mkur248ypkc @19:47

 

[NeonNote]

In one of the trailers for SSBU, where Sakurai presents everything, I noticed something interesting about Daisy. During the part where Great Plateau Tower is presented, Daisy's side-b is almost instantaneously and after that you can actually see her charging her Toad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mkur248ypkc @19:47

I was wondering what that charging toad attack was.

 

[Luminario]

I was wondering what that charging toad attack was.

I think it's just the active counter frames.

 

[xzx]

I think it's just the active counter frames.

But Toad flashes. He didn't do that in Donkey Kong's trailer, where Peach used her Toad.

 

[Luminario]

But Toad flashes. He didn't do that in Donkey Kong's trailer, where Peach used her Toad.

I've seen in a few trailers (specifically Zelda's) that they've removed sfx for the trailers to look nicer. They seem to be going for visual cues at a higher rate than before, like how characters flash yellow if they can't be grabbed, so it could still be active frames.

 

[Thatkidwiththeafro]

Calling it right now, Daisy's going to have the Carrot from Super Mario Land as her Down-B...

If there's anything that Daisy can still claim, then why not the carrot?

Dark Pit has the Electroshock, so why not? If Sakurai's team have been going with the effort to make Daisy's animations stand out from Peach, then why not just HD model a carrot, and replace the turnips? It would represent her debut game, and it would be an item that NONE of the other Mario characters use in their movesets! Win-win in my opinion! ~ Afro

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